sho@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Sho Kuwamoto) (01/10/90)
In article <1221@mountn.dec.com> minow@mountn.dec.com (Martin Minow) writes: >The real question remains: why hasn't anyone written a "Pager" utility? >(display text in 9pt monoco, scroll, let the mouse copy selections to the >clipboard, possibly write text in MacWrite format or print it out.) Because... What good would it be? If it were an application, it would be just as easy to launch real application. I suppose you could argue that a crippled word processor would be faster to launch, but I don't think that's the point. TeachText is free, and it comes with every mac system. Is there a need for something which is less capable but slightly faster? DA's are easier to open, but DA's already exist, as long as you don't mind sticking to 32K of text. Some people may prefer to use type or less or whatever because it is more suited to the way they think. To use an application on the Mac that didn't create the document you want to work with, you have to open up windows in the finder until you find the application. A little like using MS-DOS without a PATH. Well, not really, but sort of. The frustration lies not in the amount of time taken, but in the fact that the "obvious" way to do things doesn't work. "Why can't I just double-click this like the rest of my documents?" In addition, the Mac is supposed to be friendly, but the response it gives you when you want to open a TEXT file with an unknown creator type is terse at best. I personally don't see the need for a pager, but it could be useful if it were very well integrated into the Finder. For example: a) Add a new item, "Preview File" under the file menu. This would be used to display standard file types, such as TEXT, PICT, and maybe a new standard format for formatted text. (Personally, I think it's about time we stopped relying on MacWrite format as a defacto standard) or... b) Modify the Finder so that instead of saying, "...the application is busy or missing," it would say, "The creator of the TEXT file <blah> could not be opened. Open with MacWrite II?" There would also be a cdev that would let you pick the default application for any file type. This way, even a pristine system could open any TEXT file painlessly with TeachText. I think Pierce (and others) already mentioned this. Besides, I suppose you could purchase Glue or Handoff or something. Presumably, you would have to tell it what program to use for what type of file, but there's no reason that some of this couldn't be built into the system. A new resource could be added to applications which would describe what type of documents it can open. As it stands, the Finder would do pretty well for itself just by looking through the Finder BNDL for the app as a first guess. This way, the Finder could automatically present you with a list of programs that it thinks can open the file. Ok. That being said, why do we *not* need this? Depending on what all they manage to include in System 7, some of the problems may be alleviated. Q: Why would someone be so lazy as to be upset at the fact that they have to go start a word processor to view a document? A: Who can say? Maybe people wouldn't complain so much if they didn't have to go through Standard File. There are rumors that the desktop metaphor (or perhaps communication with the Finder itself) will be used instead of the SF Dialog Boxes. In either case, we may be able to open a document from within a program by clicking its icon, which may make some people happier. Q: Okay, but you still have to go find the application. A: Well, I just got an MMU, so when virtual memory is available, I'll have it load up a bunch of stuff on startup. It also seems like the interface to MultiFinder will be slightly revamped (little things like Set Aside, which is in the version you get with SADE) to make life a little easier. You will also be able to install applications in the apple menu for easy access, and make links so you can have an image of your app in, say, two folders where it would be convenient. Ha! Ramble ramble. Hopefully, the sheer volume of this article will discourage any of the more futile articles on this topic. Not to say I've covered the bases, or that I'm anywhere close to right, but just hoping that boredom will have set in by this point. An article of this length deserves a conclusion. 1) For some people, it is easier to use something like more than to open up a mac application. I myself think it's a pain to go open up a word processor and open the file from there instead of double-clicking. Not that I prefer more, but you know what I mean. 2) Yes, it is possible to read TEXT files on a mac, but that's not the point. If the dialog box were more clear, it would alleviate some confusion. (god, if it just told you that you might try opening it from a similar application, or referred you to read a little section in the manual explaining popular types of applications...) Besides, a truly friendly system would provide a mechanism for finding a suitable substitue for a missing application. 3) Hopefully, it'll be a little less painful with system 7. Whenever that gets here... -Sho -- sho@physics.purdue.edu <<-- and to think there was a time when I couldn't imagine writing something as voluminous as a Ph.D. thesis. If I can write this much on something I don't care about at all....
joe@gistdev.gist.com (Joe Brownlee) (01/13/90)
In article <2983@pur-phy> sho@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu.UUCP (Sho Kuwamoto) writes: >[Re: a pager application for the Mac] >What good would it be? If it were an application, it would be just as >easy to launch real application. [...] TeachText is free, and it comes >with every mac system. [...] My sentiments exactly. >I personally don't see the need for a pager, but it could be useful if >it were very well integrated into the Finder. For example: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >a) Add a new item, "Preview File" under the file menu. This would be > used to display standard file types, such as TEXT, PICT, [...] > >b) Modify the Finder so that instead of saying, "...the application is > busy or missing," it would say, "The creator of the TEXT file > <blah> could not be opened. Open with MacWrite II?" There would > also be a cdev that would let you pick the default application for > any file type. This way, even a pristine system could open any > TEXT file painlessly with TeachText. [...] You are right. The problem is that the capability to "preview" a file, to borrow your term, is not a part of the Finder, and therefore, it is not an integrated feature easily available to the novice user. Not only does this confuse an uninitiated user, but it seems to be (at the very least) frustrating to those of us who are advanced users. Yes, I understand why it does what it does now and how to get around it, but it is incovenient at the least. You will note that several of the postings in this string have come from people who *love* the Mac -- these are not just random flames from DOS lovers. I find this to be a justifiable criticism of the current Finder. >Ok. That being said, why do we *not* need this? [...] > >Q: Why would someone be so lazy as to be upset at the fact that they > have to go start a word processor to view a document? > >A: Who can say? [...] Now hold it right there. I am not "lazy", and I usually open "orphaned" text files via StdFile. I keep fake WriteNow documents littered about so I can lauch the application without opening at least 3 more windows to get to it, then close the fake document and open the desired one. Sure, it works, but this is hardy the most friendly way that you should have to do this. My displeasure with this does not mean I am "lazy", but rather indicates that the fact that I have to do things this way (to me) violates the very philosophy that make me like the Mac so much. > You will also be able to install applications in the apple menu for > easy access, and make links so you can have an image of your app > in, say, two folders where it would be convenient. This will help for sure, but then, my Apple menu is already a mile long. I wish that the Applications had their own menu. >Ha! Ramble ramble. Hopefully, the sheer volume of this article will >discourage any of the more futile articles on this topic. [...] I hope they aren't futile. I would like to think that the Apple folks who monitor this group at least look at the problems mentioned here and consider them. An issue with this much discussion surrounding it indicates that this is something that the user community has a problem with. I have found some of the Apple people who monitor this file to be very responsive to user concerns in the past. Time will tell on this issue. ========== Joe Brownlee, Global Information Systems Technology, Inc. =======O== 1800 Woodfield Drive, Savoy, Illinois 61874 (217) 352-1165 E-mail: joe@gistdev.gist.com <or> {uunet,uiucuxc}!gistdev!joe The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank. -- Montgomery Scott Go ahead. Pay attention to anything that _I_ say. Start a trend.