hallett@macbeth.steinmetz (Hallett) (07/21/87)
Hi all!
Just a note for all of you. There has been some talk about the
vaporware status of FullWrite. Well, I just received an ad in the
mail advertising it to be released later this year. They are
requesting orders for the final product at 1/2 off retail for all
FullPaint owners. If you include your original titlepage from WORD
3.0, they will drop another $40 off, selling it at $99. All orders
must be postmarked by July 31.
I can read this two ways:
1. They expect release soon and are trying to nip the
vaporware press in the butt by giving an incredible offer up front to
get it out into the market. Hopefully, if people are satisfied,
word-of-mouth advertising will take over.
2. They are hurting for bucks big time, don't want to get
stung on this, so they are trying to measure the market by tallying
responses to this ad.
Personally, I believe #1. I may be foolish, but I think I'll try
it. The brochure sure does outline some really fancy features and if
valid, WORD is in serious trouble.
Now, if someone could come out with a processor like this only with
automatic ligatures, labels/referencing and section generators...
Jeffrey A. Hallett (hallett@ge-crd.arpa hallett@desdemona.uucp)
Software Technology Program
General Electric Corporate Research and Development
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many"
-- Kirk (STIII)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Disclaimer: My opinions do not represent my employer's, but it is his fault
for giving me this thing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~jwhitnel@csib.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) (07/22/87)
In article <6767@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP| hallett@macbeth.steinmetz () writes: | |Hi all! | | Just a note for all of you. There has been some talk about the |vaporware status of FullWrite. Well, I just received an ad in the | ... | I can read this two ways: | | 1. They expect release soon and are trying to nip the |vaporware press in the butt by giving an incredible offer up front to |get it out into the market. Hopefully, if people are satisfied, |word-of-mouth advertising will take over. According to the FullPaint/FullWrite folks on Compuserve, they are planning to show at Boston and ship two weeks after. In other words, early September. | |Jeffrey A. Hallett (hallett@ge-crd.arpa hallett@desdemona.uucp) Jerry Whitnell It's a damn poor mind that can only Communication Solutions, Inc. think of one way to spell a word. -- Andrew Jackson
julian@riacs.edu (Julian E Gomez) (07/26/87)
In article <1150@csib.UUCP> jwhitnel@csib.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) writes: > In article <6767@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP| hallett@macbeth.steinmetz () writes: > | Just a note for all of you. There has been some talk about the > |vaporware status of FullWrite. Well, I just received an ad in the > | ... > According to the FullPaint/FullWrite folks on Compuserve, they are planning to > show at Boston and ship two weeks after. In other words, early September. Fullwrite again. In the April MacUser (which arrived in early March) Ann Arbor had an ad on pp. 34-35 saying not to buy Word 3.0 because FullWrite would "be at your store within 60 days." That's early May by my reckoning, nearly three months ago. The MacUser Rumor Manager said it would be within 45 days. I'm glad I didn't take their advice, and I'm still not holding my breath. -- Scientists will study your brain to learn more about your distant cousin, Man. Julian "a tribble took it" Gomez julian@riacs.edu || {...decvax!}ames!riacs!julian
hallett@falstaff.steinmetz (Hallett) (07/27/87)
In article <605@hydra.riacs.edu> julian@hydra.riacs.edu.UUCP (Julian E Gomez) writes: >> According to the FullPaint/FullWrite folks on Compuserve, they are planning >> to show at Boston and ship two weeks after. In other words, early September > >Fullwrite again. In the April MacUser (which arrived in early March) >Ann Arbor had an ad on pp. 34-35 saying not to buy Word 3.0 because >FullWrite would "be at your store within 60 days." That's early May by >my reckoning, nearly three months ago. The MacUser Rumor Manager said >it would be within 45 days. I'm glad I didn't take their advice, and >I'm still not holding my breath. Hmmmm. The plot thickens. When I called Ann Arbor to ask a few questions about what FullWrite does, I asked the man when it would be released. He said the first week in September. He also said the thing is already written but is finishing up in testing and polishing. Also, the product looks really snazzy after talking to the salesman. I asked him about various functions and the answers I received made it look really good. Remember, anyone who got this ad, send it in by the end of the week. Oh, by the way, if an April issue of a mag gives a time of 60 days, start counting from the 1st of April. Susbscription holders the issues early out of courtesy and lack of shipping red tape. They are to be read as if you bought it on the 1st of the month. So, Fullwrite was due in early July. Jeffrey A. Hallett (hallett@ge-crd.arpa hallett@desdemona.uucp) Software Technology Program General Electric Corporate Research and Development ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many" -- Kirk (STIII) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Disclaimer: My opinions do not represent my employer's, but it is his fault for giving me this thing. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith) (07/29/87)
I think that the major magazines have a lead time of three months or so
for advertising. This can cause all kinds of problems if you want your
ad and your product to appear at the same time. I suspect that this is
the leading cause of vaporware from reputable companies.
--
Tim Smith, Knowledgian {sdcrdcf,seismo}!ism780c!timchuq%plaid@Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (07/30/87)
>I think that the major magazines have a lead time of three months or so >for advertising. This can cause all kinds of problems if you want your >ad and your product to appear at the same time. I suspect that this is >the leading cause of vaporware from reputable companies. Speaking of this, have you folks seen the new ads for Doug Clapp's Word Tools? They say "Word Tools is finally shipping. Really." Talk about an effective mea culpa! Based on my experience, the most common cause of vaporware is not the advertising lead time but because the marketing folks don't listen to the technical folks when building the schedule and set up unrealistic deadlines. The second most common problem is development folks who underestimate their software's ability to fight back when being debugged. A three month lead time to do advertising is no problem, frankly, if the company involved has their schedules down and their software under control. Unfortunately, developing a schedule for the writing, debugging and testing of a piece of software is a difficult thing. The tendency is to build optimistic schedules, because you want it out sooner rather than later. But reality doesn't always pay attention. chuq Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ We live and learn, but not the wiser grow -- John Pomfret (1667-1703)
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (07/30/87)
Well, I know of someone who is a beta tester for FullWrite who has not recieved
his beta copy yet; however, he points out that he was also a beta test site for
FullPaint, and that it's first beta version was damn near as debugged as the
present version -- he said it was the most finished piece of beta software he'd
ever seen. Perhaps they're doing that with FullWrite; on the other hand, I
would think a word processor with this many features would be MUCH more complex
than a paint program.
"Dick... YOU'RE FIRED!"
*POW* *POW* *POW*
Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer
INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM
Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, hplsla, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty
CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind...
<*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>korn@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Peter "Arrgh" Korn) (08/04/87)
Though FullWrite may be wonderful and great and do all the things that
MicroSoft Word 3.0 & 3.01 should have done but didn't, it's not here.
And not only that, but for almost 6 months running now they've been
taking out 2 page spreads telling everyone "don't buy MicroSoft Word,
'cause FullWrite is gonna be here REAL SOON NOW, and it will beat the pants
off of Word."
This is very very slimey.
Yes, there are many problems involved in advertising in a publication that
has a 3+ month lead time, and there are many problems with developing
software--it tends to take longer than you first planned, BUT that doesn't
in any way excuse Ann Arbor's slimey ads.
I don't know how long it's gonna take people to realize, you advertise a
product on it's *own* merits, and not on how much better it will be than
foo's product.
Anyone every notice the Atari ST ads? Anyone ever talk with with an Atari
ST owner? Some 80% of the ones I've talked with, when they found out that
I owned a Macintosh, couldn't pass up the chance to spew back at me all
the Atari hype about them having a better machine for 1/2 the price.
They didn't own Atari's. They owned Macintosh-clones.
Is this how we want the marketplace to react to Macintosh products? Yes, I'm
being a tad extreem in my comparison w/Atari. But I expected a little more
class out of Ann Arbor Softworks. I expected them to take enough pride in
their product to sell FullWrite, and not to sell anti-Word.
If FullWrite is so great, why don't the ads tell me that?
Peter "just a little pissed" Korn
--
Peter "Arrgh" Korn
korn@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
{decvax,dual,hplabs,sdcsvax,ulysses}!ucbvax!kornchuq%plaid@Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (08/04/87)
>Though FullWrite may be wonderful and great and do all the things that >MicroSoft Word 3.0 & 3.01 should have done but didn't, it's not here. >And not only that, but for almost 6 months running now they've been >taking out 2 page spreads telling everyone "don't buy MicroSoft Word, >'cause FullWrite is gonna be here REAL SOON NOW, and it will beat the pants >off of Word." > >This is very very slimey. Actually, to be devils advocate a bit, the fullwrite ads came out for about two months the first time they thought they were going to be ready to ship, went away, and are back again now that they think they're going to be ready to ship again. I don't think that's slimy (if they'd done 8 months of advertising straigh, though.... but they didn't). That is just believing in a schedule that wasn't realistic. chuq Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ We live and learn, but not the wiser grow -- John Pomfret (1667-1703)
korn@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Peter "Arrgh" Korn) (08/05/87)
In <24818@sun.uucp>, chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) said: >> <I said> >>... >>And not only that, but for almost 6 months running now they've been >>taking out 2 page spreads telling everyone "don't buy MicroSoft Word, >>'cause FullWrite is gonna be here REAL SOON NOW, and it will beat the pants >>off of Word." >> >>This is very very slimey. >Actually, to be devils advocate a bit, the fullwrite ads came out for about >two months the first time they thought they were going to be ready to ship, >went away, and are back again now that they think they're going to be ready >to ship again. I don't think that's slimy (if they'd done 8 months of >advertising straigh, though.... but they didn't). That is just believing in >a schedule that wasn't realistic. Hmmm... I seem to recall seeing the ads in every issue of every magazine since just after the January MacWorld. In any case, that's not my main point. Everyone can make scheduling mistakes, and (as I said in my posting), I understand that. What I find slimey is Ann Arbor's THRASHING OF MS-WORD, in two page spreads, stating that their program (which will be here "in 60 days") is much better, and "don't get Word, get ours instead." This is NOT the way to advertize products. When you add to that bit of slime Ann Arbor's streaching that "60 days" out into some 8 months so far (and who knows just how long before it's finally here), I start to get downright annoyed. And when that company is one that I (used to) have a lot of respect for, I get to feeling somewhat betrayed. The main reason of my posting was (and is) twofold. I want to cast a different light onto the FullWrite discussion (and after all folks, it's still vaporware), in the process doing a bit of public chastizing of Ann Arbor (in the hopes that they will straighten up); and I also want to go on record as opposing this sort of crap. A lot of software vendors are on this network; I feel that they should look at Ann Arbor's mistake, and not make it themselves. I work in a computer store in my other life (when I'm not busy doing things like netnews), and I've found quite a few customers who now plan to not purchase any Ann Arbor products. I can't say I really disagree with them. This sort of crap goes on all the time in both the Amiga and the Atari markets (perhaps on the Amiga the most of all). By and large, the Macintosh market has been spared this sort of crap. Now I see it on the rise again, and just maybe I can help put a stop to it (not bloody likely, but hey...) Peter -- Peter "Arrgh" Korn korn@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU {decvax,dual,hplabs,sdcsvax,ulysses}!ucbvax!korn
hallett@hamlet.steinmetz (Jeff A. Hallett) (01/07/88)
Guess What?!?!?!??! I called Ann Arbor before New Year's Day and they said that FullWrite had begun shipping that week!!! The person who took my call said that "we decided to give everyone a reason to rejoice for New Year's". So, it appears that the 6 months we advanced purchasers have waited is about to pay off. Credo Quia Absurdum Est. Jeffrey A. Hallett (ARPANET: hallett@ge-crd.arpa Software Technology Program UUCP: desdemona!hallett@steinmetz.uucp) General Electric Corporate Research and Development "The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many" -- Kirk (STIII)
sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) (01/09/88)
in article <8382@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, hallett@hamlet.steinmetz (Jeff A. Hallett) says: > > > Guess What?!?!?!??! > > I called Ann Arbor before New Year's Day and they said that FullWrite > had begun shipping that week!!! The person who took my call said that > "we decided to give everyone a reason to rejoice for New Year's". > > So, it appears that the 6 months we advanced purchasers have waited is > about to pay off. > Glad to hear it. However, no copy has yet appeared on my doorstep. Did they say exactly how they were shipping? (U.S. Snail, U.P.S. Ground (not much faster), or something better?) Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop ******************************************************************************** Miscellaneous profundity: "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai ********************************************************************************
fisher@elxsi.UUCP (Chuck Fisher) (01/09/88)
I called Ann Arbor yesterday (Thursday, January 7th) and they told me that FullWrite Professional was "in duplication" and will be shipping *next* week. Guess they want to have some copies to sell for the MacWorld Expo next week in San Francisco. :-) Chuck
jwhitnel@csi.UUCP (Jerry Whitnell) (01/09/88)
In article <8382@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> desdemona!hallett@steinmetz.UUCP (Jeffrey A. Hallett) writes: |I called Ann Arbor before New Year's Day and they said that FullWrite |had begun shipping that week!!! The person who took my call said that |"we decided to give everyone a reason to rejoice for New Year's". Don't hold your breath. I have not seen any such annoucment on Ann Arbor's board on Compuserve. Since there is a lottery on Compuserve for when it's going to ship, I'm sure I would have seen something. If I see anything there, I'll pass it on. |Jeffrey A. Hallett (ARPANET: hallett@ge-crd.arpa Jerry Whitnell Lizzi Borden took an axe Communication Solutions, Inc. And plunged it deep into the VAX; Don't you envy people who Do all the things You want to do?
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (01/10/88)
In article <1408@uhccux.UUCP> cm450s02@uhccux.UUCP (Jeff T. Segawa) writes: >I just called Ann Arbor Softworks this Monday (1/4/88) and was told that it >would be shipping by the end of THIS week. Since then, I've seen messages by >Phil Lipitz (sp?) of AAS, which said in effect, that the people answering >the phone are wrong, and that it's BETA test copies that are in duplication >and/or being shipped. At least I THINK he said something about Beta copies. >Either way, I'd expect to wait a bit longer. FullWrite Professional betas shipped about two weeks ago. They're trying to release it at Expo, but it's going to be a race. They're doing *unheard* of things for betas -- they've got an 800 number for bug reports, and are shipping updates by Fed Express or some such overnight biz. On the other hand, the betas (while containing bugs) seem to be pretty solid (nothing REALLY nasty). Which is saying something with a product this complex. "Holy jumping Mother O' God in a sidecar with chocolate Jimmies and a Lobster Bib!" Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, hplsla, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
isle@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU (Ken Hancock) (01/12/88)
In article <2626@fluke.COM> moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) writes: > >On the other hand, the betas (while containing bugs) seem to be pretty >solid (nothing REALLY nasty). Which is saying something with a product this >complex. Where were you when Word 3.0 was released? People don't care for bugs and I'm sure Ann Arbor isn't going to even think of releasing it as long as they know some exist. They don't want a repeat performance of the Microsoft Word fiasco. Ken -- Ken Hancock UUCP: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu BITNET: isle@eleazar.dartmouth.edu DISCLAIMER: If people weren't so sue-happy, I wouldn't need one!
krs@pbhyg.UUCP (Kenn Sato) (01/15/88)
In article <7899@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU>, isle@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU (Ken Hancock) writes: > In article <2626@fluke.COM> moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) writes: > >On the other hand, the betas (while containing bugs) seem to be pretty > >solid (nothing REALLY nasty). Which is saying something with a product this > >complex. > Where were you when Word 3.0 was released? People don't care for bugs and > I'm sure Ann Arbor isn't going to even think of releasing it as long as they > know some exist. They don't want a repeat performance of the Microsoft > Word fiasco. For those pre-paid customers of Fullwrite who've been waiting since August or thereabouts ... Ann Arbor says they are shipping this week Friday (1/15/88) via ground UPS. Then again they said the same thing when I called 12/24 and the ship date was 12/30. I just hope this has been worth the wait. I wonder if they will be showing it off at the SF Macworld Expo? -- Kenn R. Sato * Pacific Bell * uucp: {ihnp4,dual}!ptsfa!pbhyg!krs 2600 Camino Ramon, 4E200.Q, San Ramon, CA 94583 (415) 823-1918 "What do you get when you multiply 6 by 7?"
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (01/15/88)
In article <7899@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU> isle@eleazar.Dartmouth.EDU (Ken Hancock) writes: >In article <2626@fluke.COM> moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Moi) writes: >> >>On the other hand, the betas (while containing bugs) seem to be pretty >>solid (nothing REALLY nasty). Which is saying something with a product this >>complex. >Where were you when Word 3.0 was released? People don't care for bugs and >I'm sure Ann Arbor isn't going to even think of releasing it as long as they >know some exist. They don't want a repeat performance of the Microsoft >Word fiasco. I wasn't suggesting that bugs could be excused in FullWrite; I mentioned this to indicate that their betas seem to be pretty solid, indicating that they were *close* to release. And you're absolutely right -- AA is doing everything possible to make sure they release a well-debugged product. I imagine they're confident enough that once it's out there, in Working Order, it'll sell like hotcakes. So far, I think that's a pretty sound hypothesis. "Blessed be those Who initiate lively discussions With the hopelessly mute For they shall be know as Dentists." Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, hplsla, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
pollock@usfvax2.UUCP (Wayne Pollock) (01/23/88)
There has been some feedback from the beta tester on this product. None
of them have said whether FullWrite is fast or slow. On the one hand,
the product has so many features, and is properly written (so as to be
compatible/protable), you'd think it would have to be slow. On the other
hand, I believe the developer would never release a product if it was too
slow. Any comments from those who have played around with it?
Wayne Pollock (The MAD Scientist) pollock@usfvax2.usf.edu.UUCP
Usenet: ...!{ihnp4, cbatt}!codas!usfvax2!pollock
GEnie: W.POLLOCKsysop@stech.UUCP (01/24/88)
Well, it's here, in all its glory - arrived Friday afternoon, weighing ... I spend some considerable time yesterday using the package. In general, I'm very impressed. In fact, it seems possible that I can use it for my next book and go directly to pages, without having to use a DTP package. The layout is very simple - one column with a large outer margin into which things like icons, definitions, and figure captions will go. I can place those in sidebars which float with the text. Very neat. I can see only one problem. The hyphenation algorithm will hyphenate two characters, as in ex- ample. My editor won't go for that; hyphenation should leave no less than three characters on a line. One of the greatest features of RSG 4.0 is the ability to control hyphenation in that manner. The floating sidebars actually make FullWrite the ideal software for this project, but the prospect of twiddling the the hyphenation manually doesn't thrill me. This product already has everything but the kitchen sink in it. I only wish they would add hyphenation control. Otherwise, perfecto... Since the figures will all be MacDraw type images, I don't even have to leave FullWrite to do the art. Love it!!!! Oh, the 1024K RAM partition under MultiFinder isn't enough. FullWrite kept quitting on me with an out-of-memory error. I increased the memory to 1300K and had no further problems. Moral to the story - don't use this product will MultiFinder unless you have at least 2 Meg RAM. It does run successfully on my vanilla Mac Plus (1 Meg only) as long as I don't install MultiFinder, however. Worth waiting for? You bet. Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop ******************************************************************************** Miscellaneous profundity: "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai ********************************************************************************
fisher@elxsi.UUCP (01/24/88)
I have used the "pre-release" version of FullWrite for about a week and a half. Normally it appears not too sluggish unless there are a lot of graphics. One thing that is *painfully* slow is the Find, Replace. I'm using a standard Mac Plus with 1 MB and a Peripheral Land PL50 drive. Chuck
chow@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Christopher Chow) (01/25/88)
What are the differences between the gamma version of FullWrite and the MacWorld demo version? I've been playing with the demo version for about three days now, and although it looks really nice, there are a few problems: 1. Speed...somehow the program feels sluggish. Going from page 1 to page 5 of a 10-page document formated with multiple columns brings up a little box that says "Updating document", and I don't get to page 5 for another few seconds. Note that this is on a Mac II with 2Meg and an XP60 with or without Multifinder (also w/ 256K disk cach). I shudder to think about how long it would take on a stock Mac Plus. Scrolling also seems slow compared to Word 3.01...switching screen depth from 8-bit to 1-bit does not speed up scrolling noticiably. 2. Stability. So far I managed to crash the demo version a few times, and I noticed one bug. The crashes might not have been FullWrite's fault, one of them appears to be connected with the SF Scroll INIT. The other crash occured when I closed Appointment Diary when I was running under Multifinder. I've had other instances of Appointment Diary crashing things, so its probably not Fullwrite's fault in this instance. 3. Bugs The bug I observed involved conversion of a MS-Word 3.01 document. To convert the 3.01 document, I saved it as a MS-Word 1.05 format file. This particular paper wasn't too long nor too complicated (the 3.01 file's formating involved a few footnotes and 2-column layout). What had happened was that the converted document appeared in Fullwrite with only 1 column. On the second page, I decided to start a new chapter, and put that chapter in multiple columns. Well, it didn't work, going from 1->2 columns resulted in the text running off the right right margin. Selected more columns resulted in more and more text spilling off the right margin! Another instance of strange behavior occured when I tried cutting text of the previously mentioned MS-Word 3.01 document and then pasting the result into FullWrite. The resulting text in FullWrite littered with strange characters ( i.e., square boxes for no such character in this font) throughout the text, appearing often in the middle of a word (e.g. vers[]ion, where [] is a box). All I can say at this point is that although the demo version looks pretty nice, I sure hope the gamma and final version of FullWrite is a bit more polished than this. Comments from people who actually have the gamma is appreciated. Christopher Chow /---------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Internet: chow@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (128.84.248.35 or 128.84.253.35) | | Usenet: ...{uw-beaver|ihnp4|decvax|vax135}!cornell!batcomputer!chow | | Bitnet: chow@crnlthry.bitnet | | Phone: 1-607-253-6699 Address: 7122 N. Campus 7, Ithaca, NY 14853 | | Delphi: chow2 PAN: chow | \---------------------------------------------------------------------------/
moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (01/26/88)
In article <943@usfvax2.UUCP> pollock@usfvax2.usf.edu.UUCP (Wayne Pollock) writes: >There has been some feedback from the beta tester on this product. None >of them have said whether FullWrite is fast or slow. On the one hand, >the product has so many features, and is properly written (so as to be >compatible/protable), you'd think it would have to be slow. On the other >hand, I believe the developer would never release a product if it was too >slow. Any comments from those who have played around with it? Speed: Well, automatic repagination in the first place; VERY fast with 1 Meg and no MultiFinder, or MultiFinder and a partition larger than 1 Meg. I've been running it on a 2.5 Meg Mac+ and a standard Mac+; under these conditions, it works very well. This is with loads of graphics sidebars (most of them floating and wrap-around); the only time I found it slow was an occasional re-painting delay when scrolling through the document -- and it was still faster than Word's repainting. My editor at MacHorizons better get on the stick and switch to this... ComputerWare is taking advance orders for it for $195 -- anyone know of a better price, mail-order wise? List is supposed to be $395, so I am wondering if Programs Plus's claim of $169 was premature. DAVE BARRY'S 1987 IN REVIEW -- Feb 1st A new policy requiring random drug testing of all airline pilots runs into a snag when nearly half of the Delta pilots are unable to hit the specimen bottle. Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, allegra, hplsla, lbl-csam}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
egv@aicchi.UUCP (Vann) (01/27/88)
> Well, it's here, in all its glory - arrived Friday afternoon, weighing ... > > I spend some considerable time yesterday using the package. In general, > I'm very impressed. In fact, it seems possible that I can use it for my > next book and go directly to pages, without having to use a DTP package. > The layout is very simple - one column with a large outer margin into which > things like icons, definitions, and figure captions will go. I can place > those in sidebars which float with the text. Very neat. > > I can see only one problem. The hyphenation algorithm will hyphenate two > characters, as in ex- > ample. My editor won't go for that; hyphenation should leave no less than > three characters on a line. One of the greatest features of RSG 4.0 is > the ability to control hyphenation in that manner. The floating sidebars > actually make FullWrite the ideal software for this project, but the prospect > of twiddling the the hyphenation manually doesn't thrill me. This product > already has everything but the kitchen sink in it. I only wish they would > add hyphenation control. Otherwise, perfecto... Since the figures will > all be MacDraw type images, I don't even have to leave FullWrite to do the > art. Love it!!!! > > Oh, the 1024K RAM partition under MultiFinder isn't enough. FullWrite > kept quitting on me with an out-of-memory error. I increased the memory to > 1300K and had no further problems. Moral to the story - don't use this > product will MultiFinder unless you have at least 2 Meg RAM. It does run > successfully on my vanilla Mac Plus (1 Meg only) as long as I don't install > MultiFinder, however. > > Worth waiting for? You bet. > > > Jan Harrington, sysop > Scholastech Telecommunications > ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop > > ******************************************************************************** > Miscellaneous profundity: > > "No matter where you go, there you are." > Buckaroo Banzai > ******************************************************************************** Before I begin let me note that as in my last response concerning FullWrite, I am a fan of the product. It is well designed for the most part, and at present exhibits performance problems. But before you judge the product up or down try the following: - Import a MS Word 1.0x file of about 40 pages or more preferably complete with a dozen or so MacDraw PICTS. - Try and scroll through the document you have imported. Chances are the program bombed with an out of memory error even before you could scroll. - What is going on here. If MS WORD can handle this document with minimal effort then FW should be at least as good if not better. But it is not as good as MS Word. This will be obvious even to the casual observer. - Most of the folks testing the program are doing so with rather little attention being paid to the kinds of large files this processor was designed to handle. Don't make that mistake in your tests. - Another question comes to mind, concerning STYLE SHEETS. Why can't the global indentation of paragraphs be overridden in a style sheet? For that matter why can't the indent values of first line be set from a style sheet in the first place. This seems a gross oversight to me. - I have further questions which I will put to the net readers as I do enough research on the issue to describe each properly. But for now I caution restraint on the program. It LOOKS great and I'm betting that it will be, but I want the developers feet held to the fire, to insure that they deliver on what promises to be a blockbuster of a program. -- Eric Geoffrey Vann Analysts International (Chicago Branch) (312) 882-4673 ..!ihnp4!aicchi!egv
sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) (01/28/88)
in article <943@usfvax2.UUCP>, pollock@usfvax2.UUCP (Wayne Pollock) says: > > There has been some feedback from the beta tester on this product. None > of them have said whether FullWrite is fast or slow. On the one hand, > the product has so many features, and is properly written (so as to be > compatible/protable), you'd think it would have to be slow. On the other > hand, I believe the developer would never release a product if it was too > slow. Any comments from those who have played around with it? The speed seems to vary with which machine (read that - which type of hard disk) I'm using. When I use it on the machine with the HD 20, it's a bit slower than on the machine with the HD20 SCSI. I assume this is because so much of the program resides on disk during execution. For example, whenever I open a picture it brings in an overlay. Nonetheless, it is acceptably fast on either machine. I'm a pretty fast typist, and can't out-type it. Disk I/O is acceptable on either machine. The one thing I haven't tried is using a RAM cache on the 2 Meg machine. Has anybody played with that? Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop ******************************************************************************** Miscellaneous profundity: "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai ********************************************************************************
drc@dbase.UUCP (Dennis Cohen) (01/29/88)
In article <1002@aicchi.UUCP>, egv@aicchi.UUCP (Vann) writes: > Before I begin let me note that as in my last response concerning > FullWrite, I am a fan of the product. It is well designed for the most > part, and at present exhibits performance problems. But before you judge > the product up or down try the following: > > - Import a MS Word 1.0x file of about 40 pages or more > preferably complete with a dozen or so MacDraw PICTS. You don't even have to go this far in trying to import various MacWrite files into word to make it bomb, odds are that it will crash or hang during the conversion. I haven't experienced the problems you cite and have converted some rather large files into FWP originating in both MacWrite and Word 1.05. The major difference was that they were full of partial screen dumps, etc that came out of FullPaint or MacPaint. > > - Try and scroll through the document you have imported. > Chances are the program bombed with an out of memory > error even before you could scroll. > > - What is going on here. If MS WORD can handle this document > with minimal effort then FW should be at least as good if > not better. But it is not as good as MS Word. This will be > obvious even to the casual observer. That there is a problem when such a condition arises will be obvious to even the casual observer; however, the comparitive evaluation is erroneous. If you are going to compare, then compare native format against native format or foreign format against foreign format (i.e. apples to apples :=}). In such a comparison, I believe you will find a draw (though my experience has FWP a winner in even this comparison). > > - Most of the folks testing the program are doing so with rather > little attention being paid to the kinds of large files this > processor was designed to handle. Don't make that mistake in > your tests. And if you're going to use FWP in its minimum configuration, you should do the same with Word. 1MB for FWP, 512Ke for Word. FWP uses extra memory quite efficiently, the same cannot be said for Word after you go past 1MB. > > - Another question comes to mind, concerning STYLE SHEETS. Why > can't the global indentation of paragraphs be overridden in > a style sheet? For that matter why can't the indent values of > first line be set from a style sheet in the first place. This > seems a gross oversight to me. No comment, doesn't seem that important to me, but it could be to others. "...gross oversight..." is probably a gross overstatement :=}. > > - I have further questions which I will put to the net readers as > I do enough research on the issue to describe each properly. > But for now I caution restraint on the program. It LOOKS great > and I'm betting that it will be, but I want the developers feet > held to the fire, to insure that they deliver on what promises > to be a blockbuster of a program. > Having been through major development efforts myself, I feel a little empathy for the poor developers who have probably been working ridiculous hours under a great deal of pressure from their marketing folks. My guess is that the technical staff probably gave an aggressive estimate as to how long it would take, the marketing folks figured that they were padding and announced that it would be ready even before that, and a vicious cycle of slips began as they pressured the programmers and requested even more features (the gamma has some things in it that I didn't see in last January's hype). Dennis Cohen Ashton-Tate Glendale Development Center dBASE Mac Development Team -------------------------- Disclaimer: Opinions expressed above are _MINE_! I have no idea what my employer's opinions are on the subjects discussed.
elfj@hp1.ccs.cornell.edu (Iroff) (01/30/88)
I've been using a beta of FullWrite for some time now, and it's great! I have some comments to add to what others have said: First, someone was having problems with the margins while printing on the Imagewriter (sorry I don't have a quote). No, you weren't doing anthing wrong, the problem is being worked on. I have had two 40 page single spaced documents open at once on a Mac Plus, so memory is not two tight, allow it will no start up with less than 1 Meg under Multifinder. And since it uses virtual memory by chapters, only your chapter length is limited by amount of memory. Disk space limits total doc length. "An informed source" reports that the ability to read Word 3.01 documents was added in the last few days. I was so excited by that I forgot to ask if it will write them as well. Also, in the licensing of the dictionary and thesaurus from Microlytics, AAS got the rights to medical, legal and several foreign language dicts as well. They are being worked on and will eventually be released. BTW, in the demo disk from Claris, the dictionary for MacWrite 5.0 has the same icon as the dict and thes. on the first beta of FW I saw. Does this mean Claris also got the dictionary from Microlytics? The speller interface of MacWrite is at least superficially different from FullWrite's. Anyway, I am told bugs are slowly being squashed (mostly obscure ones) and the program will definitely be released within a few weeks. Keep waiting; it's worth it!! Linda Iroff Humanities Computing Center Cornell University elfj@crnlvax5.bitnet
jmunkki@santra.UUCP (Juri Munkki) (04/10/88)
In article <1290@PT.CS.CMU.EDU> phd@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Paul Dietz) writes: >I'm surviving with it so far, but it's not exactly my "dream word >processor". Judging by the frequency of these querries, when, oh when >is somebody going to make a cheap, decent, technical word processor????? I currently recommend the combination of FullWrite, Expressionist and QuicKeys to people who have time to wait for FullWrite to become available. To others, I sell MS-Word with expressionist (and quickeys). I've used Word for some time now, but I'm still learning new things about it. This is the only real problem with it. Word has a lot of features, but the are too hard to find and use for the average user (I do ok though...). Expressionist is ok to those who accept the quality it produces. You can do almost anything, but some stuff requires manual fixing (which is fortunately easy). QuicKeys is there because eventually every user becomes a power user and may want to automatize the sequence of copying an expression, choosing something and pasting it there. QuicKeys also helps me use create the footnote, index and table of contents entries in FullWrite. The worst problem with FullWrite is that it's not available. I contacted Ashton Tate for a site license for our university, but they forwarded the request to a local company that told us that they can't sell a site license. We may have to forget using FullWrite, if we can't sell it to our customers before summer. I only have the demo version (with a few self-made patches to remove the "FullWrite Demo" text from printouts. :-) Juri Munkki jmunkki@santra.hut.fi jmunkki@fingate.bitnet lk-jmu@finhut.bitnet Helsinki University of Technology Computing Centre Microcomputing Support Centre National Microcomputer Software Centre for Finnish Universities Otakaari 1, Y250A 02150 Espoo, Finland Disclaimer: The above opinions are mine and may change without notice :-)
josip@eneevax.UUCP (Josip Loncaric) (04/16/88)
In article <11823@santra.UUCP> jmunkki@santra.UUCP (Juri Munkki) writes: >In article <1290@PT.CS.CMU.EDU> phd@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU (Paul Dietz) writes: >>I'm surviving with it so far, but it's not exactly my "dream word >>processor". Judging by the frequency of these querries, when, oh when >>is somebody going to make a cheap, decent, technical word processor????? > >I currently recommend the combination of FullWrite, Expressionist and >QuicKeys to people who have time to wait for FullWrite to become available. >To others, I sell MS-Word with expressionist (and quickeys). I've used Word A note for thesis writers who use a lot of mathematical formulas: TeX is hard to beat. Addison-Wesley sells it for Mac as "Textures" - a fairly nice version which extends TeX by allowing you to insert pictures (from clipboard). It comes with lots of bitmapped fonts, which require about 4Mb to store, although you can fit the minimal version on a single 800Kb disk. The Textures version 1.0 does not include LaTeX formatting macros, but A-W says they will sell it separately soon. If you already know TeX or LaTeX, I would recommend considering Textures. MacUser recently reviewed it (and a competing product called MacTeX, which costs more, does more, and is less friendly). Josip Loncaric / U. of Maryland josip@ra.umd.edu
moku@sphinx.uchicago.edu (Mark Francillon) (05/30/88)
I think I've run into another space-constraint in FW, disk-space this
time rather than memory. It looks like FW wants to write temp files
into the current system folder, files which are some multiple of the
size of the original file. Things can get ugly when the startup disk
is a floppy. Of course nobody's running FW off a plain floppy setup,
but you can also get hurt on AppleShare.
So I create this 120 k FW file (5 nearly equal-sized chapters) at home
(stock Mac+ w/ 80 meg Jasmine), then take it in to work to print it,
from a (hard) disk-less Plus connected to an AppleShare file server.
[FW is on the server]. First time I try to open the file I get a
dialog box with a message about the system disk being full, and then
a spectacular bomb (02). When I reboot there's a 220k FW temp file in
the system folder of the startup disk. Then I start paring down the
startup disk (starting from about 550k).
Once I get below about 520k, the bombs stop, but then when I open
my file I get told that my 'system disk is full. FW will exit to the
finder'. Finally at around 450k on the startup disk I can actually
open my 120k file; FW is still complaining ('Your system disk is
nearly full. Delete some files'), but it lets me print.
This is nasty business, it seems to me. I think FW is wonderful,
but if I need large files, and if I have to use AppleShare, I am out
of luck.
Mark Francillon
Dept. of Anthropology
University of Chicago
...ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!mokuwetter@tybalt.caltech.edu (Pierce T. Wetter) (05/31/88)
> >Once I get below about 520k, the bombs stop, but then when I open >my file I get told that my 'system disk is full. FW will exit to the >finder'. Finally at around 450k on the startup disk I can actually >open my 120k file; FW is still complaining ('Your system disk is >nearly full. Delete some files'), but it lets me print. > The fullWrite box specifically says HardDisk required, Personally I put FW on the fileserver, then run from a hard disk as the startup disk, but this annoys me also as it would be nice if I didn't have to do all the temp file stuff just to print. One workaround is Glue from insignia solutions. They will let you print to a file (saves the quickdraw commands) then print or cut and paste that file. Pierce ---------------------------------------------------------------- wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu Race For Space Grand Prize Winner. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Useless Advice #986: Never sit on a Tack.
moku@sphinx.uchicago.edu (Mark Francillon) (05/31/88)
In article <6762@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu.UUCP (Pierce T. Wetter) writes: >> >>Once I get below about 520k, the bombs stop, but then when I open >>my file I get told that my 'system disk is full. FW will exit to the >>finder'. Finally at around 450k on the startup disk I can actually >>open my 120k file; FW is still complaining ('Your system disk is >>nearly full. Delete some files'), but it lets me print. >> > The fullWrite box specifically says HardDisk required, Personally I put >FW on the fileserver, then run from a hard disk as the startup disk, but this >annoys me also as it would be nice if I didn't have to do all the temp file >stuff just to print. We didn't keep the box, but here's what the manual says (Learning Guide 1-5): 'To run FullWrite Professional you need a Macintosh Plus, a Macintosh SE, a Macintosh II, or a Macintosh 512K enhanced with a memory upgrade to at least one megabyte. In addition to the built-in 800K disk drive, you need a second disk drive with a capacity of at least 800K or a Macintosh- compatible hard disk'. To compare small things with great, there's something in WordPerfect that would come in usefully here--a command that lets the user set the folder in which temp files will be stored. Mark Francillon Dept. of Anthropology University of Chicago ...ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!moku
xxiaoye@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Xiaoxia Ye) (05/21/89)
As this time when MicroSoft Word 4.0 seems to be the focus for most of the netters, I would like to ask several questions regarding the "academic purchase" of FullWrite Professional. Please e-mail me all the answers, I will post a summary if necessary. 1) Is this a one time thing? Does Ashton-Tate permenantly label you as an academic user (like MicroSoft)? Or will Ashton-Tate treat you as a regular user later on? 2) What are the upgrade policies (for the rumored FullWrite 2.0 ?) ? 3) If Ashton-Tate does treat academic users differently, what are the restrictions? What will they do if you leave the academic institution ? 4) How is the speed of FullWrite 1.1 compared to 1.0 ( and other categories) ? Thanks in advance. ________________________________________________________________________ Xiaoxia Ye INTERNET/BITNET/UUCP: xxiaoye@eleazar.dartmouth.edu Dartmouth College For more info: finger xxiaoye@eleazar.dartmouth.edu
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/23/89)
>2) What are the upgrade policies (for the rumored FullWrite 2.0 ?) ? Unknown. Probably will remain unknown until the rumored FWP 2.0 is no longer a rumor. >4) How is the speed of FullWrite 1.1 compared to 1.0 ( and other >categories) ? None. 1.1 wasn't a speedup release, it was a stability and cleanup release. To speed up performance requires major revamping of the internals, which is planned for the rumored 2.0. Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ [This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.] This is....The Voice....of USENET....in special English. 1300UTC on 11525.
sarrel@frigate.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marc Sarrel) (05/24/89)
In article <31383@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >2) What are the upgrade policies (for the rumored FullWrite 2.0 ?) ? Unknown. Probably will remain unknown until the rumored FWP 2.0 is no longer a rumor. I don't know about anyone else, but as a student who bought (excuse me, liscenced) FWP at the educational price, I'm getting nervous. At the time of purchase (liscence) no representation was made to me that I would be treated any differently from someone who bought (liscenced) at the full price. However, my disks are stamped "educational use only" as is the "About..." window and several pieces of literature. However, at the moment at least, this seems to be a distinction without a difference. Ashton-Tate has still not made it clear what differences, if any there will be. In fact, they haven't even said if there is a possibility that there will be any differences. (ie: they haven't said anything to the effect of "we reserve the right to screw people who bought at the educational price.") The only "chink in armor" is that Ashton-Tate said that version 1.1 is an "update". Version 2.0 will be an "upgrade". (When the number to the right of the dot changes, it's an update, when the number on the left changes, it's an upgrade.) They said that updates are free, but that upgrades are free to "most customers" (or some words to that effect), although they didn't elaborate. If "most customers" means only those people who paid full price, I'll be really mad. I don't mind paying for upgrades. However, if only "educational users" are required to pay and if there was no warning or notice that this even _might_ be the case, then I feel ripped off. If they continue this policy indefinitely, will I end up paying more for upgrades than the original price (liscence fee) of the program? (Don't be absurd, you say. Stranger things have happened.) I'm not steamed yet, but I'm starting to come to a slow boil. Anybody know if there is some consumer organization out there willing to take on some litigation? 1/2 :-) --marc -=- "Master, why is the letter 'i' the symbol for current?" "Because there is no letter 'i' in the word 'current'." "Master, why do we use the letter 'j' for sqrt(-1)?" "Because we use the letter 'i' for current." Whereupon the Master struck the Disciple, and the Disciple became enlightened.
peggyl@ashtate.UUCP (Peggy Lerch) (05/24/89)
In article <SARREL.89May23154345@frigate.cis.ohio-state.edu> sarrel@frigate.cis.ohio-state.edu (Marc Sarrel) writes: >In article <31383@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > > >2) What are the upgrade policies (for the rumored FullWrite 2.0 ?) ? > > Unknown. Probably will remain unknown until the rumored FWP 2.0 is no longer > a rumor. > >I don't know about anyone else, but as a student who bought (excuse >me, liscenced) FWP at the educational price, I'm getting nervous. At I called Customer Service this morning and was told that the upgrade policy for "educational customers" is no different from the policy for "regular customers". So, if an upgrade is free to regular customers it is also free to educational customers. They had no information to offer regarding the upgrade policies for "the rumored FullWrite 2.0". If you have any other questions, the Customer Service number is (213) 329-9989. Peggy Lerch, Product Development Ashton-Tate
hgw@julia.math.ucla.edu (01/10/90)
For you information, Technology Works is giving away Fullwrite when you order memory chips from them. What a deal. disclaimer: Just a thrilled customer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Harold Wong (213) 825-9040 UCLA-Mathnet; 3915F MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA 90024-1555 ARPA: hgw@math.ucla.edu BITNET: hgw%math.ucla.edu@INTERBIT
bannon@andromeda.rutgers.edu.rutgers.edu (Ron Bannon) (01/11/90)
In article <2140@sunset.MATH.UCLA.EDU> hgw@MATH.UCLA.EDU (Harold Wong) writes: >For you information, Technology Works is giving away Fullwrite when you >order memory chips from them. What a deal. > >disclaimer: Just a thrilled customer. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Harold Wong (213) 825-9040 >UCLA-Mathnet; 3915F MSA; 405 Hilgard Ave.; Los Angeles, CA 90024-1555 >ARPA: hgw@math.ucla.edu BITNET: hgw%math.ucla.edu@INTERBIT Do you mean a demo of FullWrite? Ron Bannon bannon@andromeda.rutgers.edu :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Is George Bush a traitor? Read "October Surprise" by Honegger. Send for details. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) (01/11/90)
hgw@MATH.UCLA.EDU (Harold Wong) writes: >For you information, Technology Works is giving away Fullwrite when you >order memory chips from them. What a deal. Huh? I just ordered 2 Megs from them, and I certainly didn't get Fullwrite with the deal. (And for $188, I wouldn't really expect it, either.) How much memory do you have to buy? -- Geoff Allen \ WINCO doesn't believe in Macs, {uunet|bigtex}!pmafire!geoff \ so of course these are my views. ucdavis!egg-id!pmafire!geoff \
carter@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Thomas J. Carter) (01/11/90)
Technology Works is not giving away Fullwrite, but rather selling a copy for $39. Tom Carter carter@neon.stanford.edu
gregh@inmet.inmet.com (01/11/90)
Actually, if buy 4 megabytes of memory from Technology Works (for $350) you get FullWrite for free. If you buy 2 megabytes ($175), you can get FullWrite for $39. Greg Herlihy
ADAM.FRIX@f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (ADAM FRIX) (01/13/90)
Thomas J. Carter writes:
TJC> Technology Works is not giving away Fullwrite, but rather
TJC> selling a copy for $39.
When you buy two megs of RAM at $175 (for both), you can buy FWP from them
for $39. When you buy four megs of RAM at $350 total, they'll give it to
you FREE. (That's a $259 value, MacConnection price.) What they send you
is FullWrite 1.0, a full retail package (apparently) with registration
card and everything, which will get you the free upgrade to version 1.1.
And I hear version 2.0 is coming out for around $50 upgrade. Any way you
slice it, it's not a bad deal. They do say the program is not for resale.
Contact Technology Works in Texas for more information. Don't call
Ashton-Tate, they're not selling the bundle. TW is.
--Adam--
--
ADAM FRIX via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!200!ADAM.FRIX
INET: ADAM.FRIX@f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG