mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (01/12/90)
While we are on this subject, maybe someone can explain this phenomenon:
I am the student rep for Apple on campus, and many people know this. However
this does not stop me from dropping in the IBM PC lab to use a model 30-286.
No one has ever made any comments to me about this.
The student rep for IBM on campus would occasionally be seen using a Mac.
This caused quite a bit of a stir (enough that he stopped using Macs in
public places) from the people around campus.
Now, I would hope that people aren't so pig-headed that they think that you
can use one and only one machine (although I have seen some people on the
net that come close to this). But it seems that Mac users are more likely
to understand another Mac user using an IBM, but the opposite is not true.
Why is this so?
If there was any logic behind this at all, these same people would complain
when I sit down at the VT320 that I am using right now to log onto our
Unix or VMS or MVS systems. But they don't.
Which of these deductions do you come to:
1. Mac systems cannot meet the necessary requirements, forcing me to use
other systems.
2. Every system has its strong points.
Or if you were an IBM user:
1. An IBM PC is all I will ever need to do everything that I want.
2. Some systems don't do certain things very well.
-Michael
--
Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas
Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu
Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)jordan@Apple.COM (Jordan Mattson) (01/13/90)
Dear Michael - An interesting observation that I would like to continue. Living here in Silicon Valley, I find that many of my friends work for a number the various companies in the valley. I have friends that work at Sun, HP, Qume, Apple, Rolm, and, gasp!, IBM. And we have our joking fights about my company and computer is better than your company and computer. Now for the interesting story. My best friend in fact works at IBM and lives with another IBMer. Over the last year my friend has come to see the nice features of the Macintosh and decided to buy a Macintosh IIx. Now get this, his house mate (who owns the house they live in) forbid him to bring his Macintosh into the house! Took about intolerance. In fact, he accussed my friend of disloyalty to IBM. Finally, after about two months, he relented and allowed my friend to have his Macintosh in his bed room, but he must not allow people to know that it is there! Now my house mate works at Qume and builds computers in his spare time. In fact we have a Super386 box that he built from scratch for fun and it lives quite nicely in our computer room and coexists on the LAN that we have. He has also bought a Macintosh II recently (we got a real good deal). The interesting thing is that the 386 box sits idle most of the time, while the Macintosh II and the two Macintosh Plus systems get all of the work out. Our friends, all quite capable with computers, and the Cambodian refugee kids that we work with in our spare time love the Macintosh and will use it, if available, to the exclusion of all other computers. An interesting story. What do you and the rest of the world make of it! -- Jordan Mattson UUCP: jordan@apple.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. CSNET: jordan@apple.CSNET Development Tools Product Management AppleLink: Mattson1 20525 Mariani Avenue, MS 27S Cupertino, CA 95014 408-974-4601 "Joy is the serious business of heaven." C.S. Lewis
rcfische@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (Raymond C. Fischer) (01/13/90)
In article <10560@bsu-cs.bsu.edu> mithomas@bsu-cs.UUCP (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >While we are on this subject, maybe someone can explain this phenomenon: >[stuff deleted] >Now, I would hope that people aren't so pig-headed that they think that you >can use one and only one machine (although I have seen some people on the >net that come close to this). But it seems that Mac users are more likely >to understand another Mac user using an IBM, but the opposite is not true. >Why is this so? I think it's because the IBM camp is feeling threatened and insecure about the worthiness of their machines. (Justifiably so, I might add :-)). If you're a Mac user, you KNOW your computer is better than those PC's. Ray Fischer rcfische@polyslo.calpoly.edu
ar4@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Piper Keairnes) (01/13/90)
mithomas@bsu-cs.UUCP (Michael Thomas Niehaus) writes: >Now, I would hope that people aren't so pig-headed that they think that you >can use one and only one machine (although I have seen some people on the >net that come close to this). But it seems that Mac users are more likely >to understand another Mac user using an IBM, but the opposite is not true. >Why is this so? Maybe it's just the good natured aspect of the entire Macintosh community?! OK, maybe not. I work with several types of computers. I live on a Macintosh and I occasionally use an IBM-compatible. I prefer the environment of the Mac to that of the IBM. I, personally, find Macs more powerful for my purposes. Our public lab site here at Purdue might give people some insight to the "Who uses what?" problem: We have a lab with both Mac II's and Zenith 286's. As far as hardware is concerned, the systems are comparable. When the lab is busy, the Macs are generally full and there are a few users on the Zeniths. For the most part, old users, familiar with the lab, tend to use one machine OR the other BUT NOT BOTH. Newcomers come in to work on a Mac, find that they are full, and ask if the Zeniths have the needed software for the job. Sometimes they will grumble as they head off to type out a resume on the Zenith. One thing that I LIKE about the IBM world is that the computers are so much easier to program! On the Mac, geez... I guess in order to make Mac users' lives easier, the Mac had to make the programmers' job harder. +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Piper Keairnes | ar4@mentor.cc.purdue.edu | General Consultant | | (317) 495-4273 | Macintosh Enthusiast | Purdue Univ. Computing Center | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Disclaimer: The expressed opinions are not necessarily shared by Purdue Univ.
mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (01/14/90)
Piper Keairnes (ar4@mentor.cc.purdue.edu) writes: > We have a lab with both Mac II's and Zenith 286's. As far as hardware is > concerned, the systems are comparable. When the lab is busy, the Macs are > generally full and there are a few users on the Zeniths. For the most part, > old users, familiar with the lab, tend to use one machine OR the other > BUT NOT BOTH. Newcomers come in to work on a Mac, find that they are full, and > ask if the Zeniths have the needed software for the job. Sometimes they will > grumble as they head off to type out a resume on the Zenith. Here at Ball State, we have 20 computer labs that can be used by anyone. Three of these are all MS-DOS machines, and 6 of these are all Mac labs. Three others have VT320/240 terminals only. The rest are hybrid rooms. As for actual number of machines, PCs account for 40% of the total, Macintoshes account for 30% of the total, and terminals account for almost the entire other 30%. Now here's the good part: Any lab that has Macintoshes has a little sign that they keep handy: "All Macintoshes are in Use." So many people want to use Macs that it is standard to see waiting lists for machines with 20 to 30 people on them (during prime hours). I have waited for *4 hours* on a Saturday afternoon a couple of times, just to print out a research paper (since I have my own Mac). Now for the MS-DOS labs: Utilization averages about 30-40% (compared to 70-90% for Mac labs). The only time one of these labs fills up is when a prof brings a class in for hands-on work. And lastly (for reference), utilization of the terminals is about 50-90%, depending on how far we are into the semester. I am amazed that people will wait that long to use a Mac, even when there are terminals (for WPS-PLUS) and PCs (for WordPerfect) sitting right next to them. If it weren't for the College of Business here, I don't think they would buy any more MS-DOS machines for computer labs. > One thing that I LIKE about the IBM world is that the computers are so much > easier to program! On the Mac, geez... I guess in order to make Mac users' > lives easier, the Mac had to make the programmers' job harder. Definitely. But I guess that is a better place to put the work. I would much rather put in the work to make the program easy to use. Recently I developed a new mail shell for VMS. The first version that I created had all kinds of features (used real names instead of user names, allowed signature files, etc.). But the interface wasn't very polished, and the program wasn't used. So I spent a weekend giving the program hierarchical menus, windows, no more command line, etc. Everything was done using the arrow keys, Escape key, Delete key, and Insert key (except for when you entered the actual information). The underlying program remained the same. Only with this new interface did the program start to be used. (The scary thing is that this program now has an event loop...) -Michael -- Michael Niehaus UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee}!bsu-cs!mithomas Apple Student Rep ARPA: mithomas@bsu-cs.bsu.edu Ball State University AppleLink: ST0374 (from UUCP: st0374@applelink.apple.com)
mitchell@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com.commodore.com (Fred Mitchell - PA) (01/23/90)
In article <6388@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> ar4@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Piper Keairnes) writes: >... >One thing that I LIKE about the IBM world is that the computers are so much >easier to program! On the Mac, geez... I guess in order to make Mac users' >lives easier, the Mac had to make the programmers' job harder. Hmmm... I've never programmed a Mac, but have done a lot of work on an IBM. Yuck. I hate writing programs for IBM. That silly segmented architecture, 640 program limit, crummy operating system, and the lack of standard peripherials/drivers makes it a nightmare to work in, depending on the appication one intends to implement. You have to do *alot* of work to produce something that looks half decent. At least the Mac gives you tools to work with. The Amiga is definitely the greatest. But I'll take nearly any 68XXX system over the IBM!!!! >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Piper Keairnes | ar4@mentor.cc.purdue.edu | General Consultant | >| (317) 495-4273 | Macintosh Enthusiast | Purdue Univ. Computing Center | >+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Mitchell mitchell@cbmvax.UUCP Amiga/68XXX Enthusaist Opinions are my own. Period. Leave my boss out of it!