cjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Chris Colbourn) (01/17/90)
Someone told me there was an earlier note on newsgroup about the latest Red Ryder comms program update but I must have missed it. Anyway, I received a letter from FreeSoft announcing the update to version 11 and giving a story about the name change to White Knight. The owners of the Red Ryder trademark (who are they?) apparently wanted a lot more dosh for its continued use and so FreeSoft decided to change the name to White Knight 11 (isn't/wasn't that the name of a famous chess program for the BBC micro and other PCs?)! Anyone know the full story behind this? Could be that the name will have to change again!! More important perhaps has anyone seen/used White Knight 11? Does it really live up to its spec.., particularly regarding speed, and running correctly under MultiFinder. After the fiasco of the last upgrade from 9.4 to 10.3 which I forked out for and was considerably disappointed (it was a 'one step forwards, two steps backwards' job in my opinion), I am loathe to part with money again on spec. alone. It sounds good but so did Red Ryder 10.3! -- Chris Colbourn, Psychology Dept, Southampton University, SO9 5NH, UK JANET: pyi011@uk.ac.soton.ibm or cjc@uk.ac.soton.ecs INTERNET: pyi011%soton.ac.uk%nsfnet-relay.ac.uk TEL: +44 703 592589 (DDI) or +44 703 595000 x2589 TLX: 47661 SOTONU G FAX: +44 703 593939 -- Chris Colbourn, Psychology Dept, Southampton University, SO9 5NH, UK JANET: pyi011@uk.ac.soton.ibm or cjc@uk.ac.soton.ecs INTERNET: pyi011%soton.ac.uk%nsfnet-relay.ac.uk TEL: +44 703 592589 (DDI) or +44 703 595000 x2589 TLX: 47661 SOTONU G FAX: +44 703 593939
shiffman%basselope@Sun.COM (Hank Shiffman) (01/19/90)
In article <23300.9001161812@hilliard.ecs.soton.ac.uk> cjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk (Chris Colbourn) writes: >Someone told me there was an earlier note on newsgroup about the latest >Red Ryder comms program update but I must have missed it. Anyway, I >received a letter from FreeSoft announcing the update to version 11 >and giving a story about the name change to White Knight. The owners of >the Red Ryder trademark (who are they?) apparently wanted a lot more >dosh for its continued use and so FreeSoft decided to change the name >to White Knight 11 (isn't/wasn't that the name of a famous chess >program for the BBC micro and other PCs?)! Anyone know the full story >behind this? Could be that the name will have to change again!! The company that owns the Red Ryder trademark wrote a rather stinging rebuttal to this in an issue of MacWeek a couple of months ago. They claimed to have agreed to a small royalty early on based upon Scott Watson's company being small and poor. He was supposed to provide regular reports on the sales of his program so they could keep track of how much they were to receive. They claim he never provided such reports. When the agreement was due to expire, Watson wanted the same arrangement as before, despite the fact that he could hardly claim to be a struggling, impoverished programmer. (Read Watson's own comments in the introduction to the White Knight manual for proof of this.) The trademark owners insisted on a larger royalty based on the success of the product, although they categorically denied Watson's claim that it would have required the doubling of the price of his program. Since Watson didn't want to pay any more than a token amount for the name he decided to choose another one. Disclaimer: I don't know any of the players in this saga. I just know which account *I* find more compelling... -- Hank Shiffman (415) 336-4658 Marketing Technical Specialist Software Engineering Technologies ...!sun!shiffman Sun Microsystems, Inc. shiffman@Sun.com Zippy sez: NEWARK has been REZONED!! DES MOINES has been REZONED!!
ADAM.FRIX@f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (ADAM FRIX) (01/21/90)
Chris Colbourn writes:
CC> Someone told me there was an earlier note on newsgroup about the
CC> latest Red Ryder comms program update but I must have missed it.
CC> Anyway, I received a letter from FreeSoft announcing the update
CC> to version 11 and giving a story about the name change to White
CC> Knight. The owners of the Red Ryder trademark (who are they?)
CC> apparently wanted a lot more dosh for its continued use and so
CC> FreeSoft decided to change the name to White Knight 11
CC> (isn't/wasn't that the name of a famous chess program for the BBC
CC> micro and other PCs?)! Anyone know the full story behind this?
CC> Could be that the name will have to change again!!
Scott Watson, author of Red Ryder/White Knight, publicly said the
following in his White Knight 11.0 press release:
-> Why the name change? Simple. Our license contract for the Red
-> Ryder trademark is to expire on January 1, 1990. Two days before
-> we were to go to the printer with what was to be called "Red
-> Ryder 11", the owners of the trademark advised us that there was
-> to be a significant increase in the license fee renewel. The
-> best calculations that we could do on such short notice told us
-> that this increase was significant to the degree that we would
-> either have to double the proposed price of the product, or
-> eliminate several jobs. Our response was to do neither. Instead,
-> we chose to select a new name for the product and apply for
-> trademark protection ourselves.
But there was a letter in MacWEEK magazine of 5 December 1989
from the president of Red Ryder Enterprises, refuting Scott's
assertions as stated above. She gives a different enough version
of the story that makes one stop to wonder. She (Shirley
Slesinger Lasswell) said that when Scott first approached her to
use the name Red Ryder, he claimed poverty and asked for a break.
Red Ryder Enterprises, holder of the name Red Ryder, agreed "to
waive the standard advances and royalties because he was just
starting out." This agreement was on the basis of an annual
review of Watson's income (remember, this was 1987). She never
heard from Scott again until his license agreement with them was
up for renewal, in July 1989. (hmmmm, whatEVER happened to that
annual review of Scott's income?? RR Enterprises must not have
pushed, but Scott certainly never offered, did he?) He called to
renew the license agreement -but again without disclosing his
income- (as they had both agreed he would). RRE insisted on
standard royalties this time, and Watson balked. RRE backed down
a bit, offering to start out with small royalties to give Watson
a chance to build the royalty cost into the retail price of his
product. As RR Enterprises put it, "Watson's answer was printed
in MacWEEK when he announced that he was changing Red Ryder to
White Knight because the trademark owners demanded a royaty that
would double the program's cost to the public."
Make up your own mind here. My tendency, based on previous
facts, is to believe RR Enterprises--because Watson seems to hold
license agreements in little regard, at least when they become
bothersome to achieving his goals. This is just another example
of that. Remember, Watson made a TON of money off the name Red
Ryder, and paid absolutely nothing for the privilege. Further,
he seemed to have gotten rather miffed (in a childlike way) when
asked to -start- paying for continued use of the name. (RRE
makes an offer, and they read his "response" in a national weekly
magazine.)
CC> More important perhaps has anyone seen/used White Knight 11? Does
CC> it really live up to its spec.., particularly regarding speed,
CC> and running correctly under MultiFinder. After the fiasco of the
CC> last upgrade from 9.4 to 10.3 which I forked out for and was
CC> considerably disappointed (it was a 'one step forwards, two steps
CC> backwards' job in my opinion), I am loathe to part with money
CC> again on spec. alone. It sounds good but so did Red Ryder 10.3!
The hell of it is, yes, it's a great program, especially when you
compare it to your 9.4-->10.3 experience. I suggest this:
FreeSoft gives you a 30 day free trial, if you don't like it send
it back for a full refund. Take them up on it. But remember,
when you break that shrink wrap you're entering into a business
agreement with the very same guy who does business as I've
described above.
And, to quote Hank Shiffman:
Disclaimer: I don't know any of the players in this saga. I just
know which account *I* find more compelling...
^^^^^
The above statement expresses the views of the individual and does
not necessarily reflect the views or concerns of this place of origin.
--
ADAM FRIX via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!200!ADAM.FRIX
INET: ADAM.FRIX@f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGmacman@wpi.wpi.edu (Christopher Silverberg) (01/24/90)
In article <38231.25BAE803@cmhgate.FIDONET.ORG> ADAM.FRIX@f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (ADAM FRIX) writes: >Make up your own mind here. My tendency, based on previous >facts, is to believe RR Enterprises--because Watson seems to hold >license agreements in little regard, at least when they become >bothersome to achieving his goals. This is just another example >of that. Remember, Watson made a TON of money off the name Red >Ryder, and paid absolutely nothing for the privilege. Further, >he seemed to have gotten rather miffed (in a childlike way) when >asked to -start- paying for continued use of the name. (RRE >makes an offer, and they read his "response" in a national weekly >magazine.) I guess Watson can be a stubborn guy, but on the other hand, if he wasn't, he probably wouldn't have been the type-o person to write White Knight anyway. I also think the whole idea of people (in this case RRE) making a living off of royalties to a couple of words is pretty lame... what work do they do for a living??? Well anyway, i just thought i might mention that in the latest version of WK (11.04), if you check out the "About..." box, you'll see that Scott dedicated this version to the people of RRE. Relations between Watson and RRE probably had changed much since articles in MacWeek. -- ============================================================================== (.) (.) | Chris Silverberg, WPI Box 719 | BBS Sysop: Main Street U.S.A u | USENET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu | 2400 baud - (508) 832-7725 \___/ | BITNET: macman@wpi.bitnet | Fido: 322/575 - Second Sight BBS