jxf@phobos.cis.ksu.edu (Jerry Frain) (01/13/90)
Does anyone out there know of a backup utility that *compresses* data as
it writes it to [floppy] disk?
I hate to have to spend a bazillion bucks on ~100 DSDD diskettes or
~60 DSHD diskettes it would take to back up the 80MB hard disk on my SE/030.
Not to mention the time and energy spent swapping diskettes, and the fact
that I *ideally* should have enough diskettes to keep two full backups,
or one volume backup + incrementals.
Seems like there ought to be something out there that compresses the data
prior to writing to disk. I am inclined to try my hand at writing something,
but I really do not have the time.
Ideally, I guess, I would shell out the bucks to buy a good tape backup
system. But, alas, I blew my savings (and then some) on the Mac itself.
I'd appreciate any suggestions you can give me, PD, shareware, or commercial.
Thanks in advance.
--Jerry
--
Jerry Frain -- Professional Student Kansas State University
Internet: jxf@phobos.cis.ksu.edu Dept of Computing & Information Sciences
BITNET: MUSTANG@KSUVM Manhattan, Kansas
UUCP: ...!{rutgers|textbell}!ksuvax1!phobos.cis.ksu.edu!jxfar4@mace.cc.purdue.edu (Piper Keairnes) (01/21/90)
>> Does anyone out there know of a backup utility that *compresses* data as >> it writes it to [floppy] disk? I've heard and seen some very good things about Retrospect. The interface is very friendly and systematic and the program carries just about every option you'll need for your backups, including file compression. +-------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Piper | ar4@mace.cc.purdue.edu | General Consultant | | Keairnes | Macintosh Specialist | Purdue Univ. Computing Center | +-------------------------------------------------------------------+
rc3h+@andrew.cmu.edu (Ross Ward Comer) (01/22/90)
Overall, PC Tools has been fantastic at backing up and the MacTools program is a decent disk utility (file/disk copy, sector editor, etc). ross rc3h@andrew.cmu.edu Carnegie Mellon University
dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) (01/22/90)
In article <1990Jan13.012318.28263@deimos.cis.ksu.edu> jxf@phobos.cis.ksu.edu (Jerry Frain) writes: >Does anyone out there know of a backup utility that *compresses* data as >it writes it to [floppy] disk? I've been procrastinating on this, but here's my opinion on FastBack II from Fifth Generation. A review of this product comparing it with Retrospect can be found in the current MacWorld. FBII is more than just a new version of FastBack, it's a less useful version. It does a pretty good job of compression. I have done a number of backups of my disk, ranging from 10MB incrementals to 130MB full backups, and I find that on average it backs up a little over 1MB on an 800K floppy, and takes about 2 minutes per MB, which is longer than the same 1MB without compression. I'm still happy with this, since it makes it possible to do backups while reading. The behavior under MultiFinder is very good. I can use many applications while running FBII, though comm programs do suffer from the interruptions. It even puts up an indication when it is waiting for a new floppy. The things I don't like about FBII are: 1. There's no way to archive a set of files as a set. The backup catalog can't really be placed on a floppy with the backup set, so it's not convenient. In fact, I still use the old FastBack to archive sets of files. 2. I've had to do two full restores of my disk, and it's a real pain. It's fast, but there's no way to save the state of the entire disk, so files that have been deleted or moved come back to haunt you. 3. Error recovery is poor. After doing a 100MB backup, I found that my request to put a copy of the catalog on a floppy wasn't handled well. It didn't ask me to insert a floppy, it just reported an error. Then, when I told it to go on anyway, it didn't mark any files as backed up, so my incremental backups are all being done by restricting the modification date range. 4. The documentation is organized like the program, instead of explaining tasks. It's fine for a beginner or someone starting to do a backup, but when I needed help trying to do a full restore, it was like bobbing for apples in a mud puddle. (It would be nice if someone with Retrospect could tell me how it fares in the above areas.) Personally, I don't recommend FastBack II. If they don't have an upgrade that puts FBII in line with Retrospect by summer, I'll probably buy myself a copy of Retrospect. -- David Elliott dce@smsc.sony.com | ...!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!dce (408)944-4073 "Never call a crazed psychotic a crazed psychotic."
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (01/22/90)
dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) writes: [[about weaknesses of FastBack II, and askes....]] >(It would be nice if someone with Retrospect could tell me how it >fares in the above areas.) >In article <1990Jan13.012318.28263@deimos.cis.ksu.edu> jxf@phobos.cis.ksu.edu (Jerry Frain) writes: >>Does anyone out there know of a backup utility that *compresses* data as >>it writes it to [floppy] disk? >It does a pretty good job of compression. So does Retrospect. It uses a compression algorithm very close to StuffIt. On general data, I see 45-55% reduction (for instance, my ~80 floppy set of Publish domain stuff went to about 35 floppies). Some stuff -- encrypted files and Adobe fonts -- have essentially no compression, but TIFF files can compress 85% or more depending on how complex they are. Retrospect does as well as (and in some cases a bit better than) StuffIt in compression. >The behavior under MultiFinder is very good. I can use many applications >while running FBII Ditto for Retrospect. I normally don't bother, but it can be done. >The things I don't like about FBII are: > 1. There's no way to archive a set of files as a set. Retrospect excels here. You can set up subvolumes on your hard disk on a per-folder basis and only back those up. If you want to be more specific or back up specific sets of files, you can write custom scripts to go get them. There are some predefined scripts: older than a week, older than a month, older than six months, text files, etc. If they don't have what you want, you can create custome descriptors to use in the scripts, for instance, all Word or MacWrite or TEXT files, for instance. The scripting is somewhat non-intuitive until you get used to it, but once you do, there's an amazing amount of power -- I don't think you can come up with a rational backup system that couldn't be implemented in their scripts. Another plus: 95% of the time you don't need scripts, and the scripting is the only real non-intuitive piece of the interfave -- and you can ignore it until you need the power. > 2. I've had to do two full restores of my disk, and it's a real > pain. It's fast, but there's no way to save the state of > the entire disk, so files that have been deleted or moved > come back to haunt you. To some degree, the same with Retrospect, but Retrospect allows you to deselect files you don't want restored before you do the restoration, so at least you have the ability to get rid of them before pulling them off the floppies. Retrospect will also only restore the most recent version of a file if you want it to, rather than all versions. > 3. Error recovery is poor. After doing a 100MB backup, I found > that my request to put a copy of the catalog on a floppy > wasn't handled well. Error recovery in Retrospect is pretty good. If a floppy disappears or dies, you can rebuild the catalogs to remove the missing data. If the catalog disappears (it isn't stored on a floppy, although you can create it on a floppy if you want, or copy it there when you're done), Retrospect will recreated it by reading in all the floppies in the set. I threw some know bad floppies at it once and it handled them quite nicely. > anyway, it didn't mark any files as backed up, so my > incremental backups are all being done by restricting the > modification date range. Retrospect is very flexible here. It has a fairly complex way of figuring out what's been changed and what hasn't that looks at # of bytes, modification date and other factors. In fact, it will recognize that file "foo" in folder bar and file "foo" in folder baz are the same file and only copy one (if signature and type match, size matches, date matches, etc..). This can be overridden if you do want duplicates copies. > 4. The documentation is organized like the program, instead > of explaining tasks. The Retrospect documentation is good. The only weak spot is the scripting stuff, which is primarily because it's a complex topic -- you need to work with the program and play with scripts a bit before it all falls into place. -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> chuq@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking] Rule 1 on how to not get an answer to your question: put "I don't normally read this group" in the message. Rule 2: don't read the group before posting. It's considered bad manners to ask a questio about a topic currently under discussion. -- Uncle chuqui's guide to the net.
dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) (01/23/90)
In article <37991@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) writes: >> anyway, it didn't mark any files as backed up, so my >> incremental backups are all being done by restricting the >> modification date range. > >Retrospect is very flexible here. It has a fairly complex way of figuring >out what's been changed and what hasn't that looks at # of bytes, >modification date and other factors. In fact, it will recognize that file >"foo" in folder bar and file "foo" in folder baz are the same file and only >copy one (if signature and type match, size matches, date matches, etc..). >This can be overridden if you do want duplicates copies. You took me a out of context a little here, Chuq. FastBack II does fine with figuring out what's changed as long as the original backup finished fine. In my case, I couldn't figure out how to make it realize that the files had been backed up. Another thing I left out is that the estimation stuff seems broken. The first time I used FBII, it displayed an estimate of the backup size. Since that time, I've been unable to get an estimate, even after reading the entire manual (albeit in pieces). In any case, it sounds like I wasted $107 buying FastBack II. Even if I were happy with it, I still wasted $60, since a few days after I got it, Fifth Generation offered it to me at a reduced price, and didn't even answer me when I told them what happened on the registration card. -- David Elliott dce@smsc.sony.com | ...!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!dce (408)944-4073 "Never call a crazed psychotic a crazed psychotic."
drew@cup.portal.com (Andrew E Wade) (01/23/90)
Fastback II does that (compresses while it backs up). It gives couple options something like: no compression, minimize time (to back up), minimize space (on backup medium). It also bunches all your files into one big one (which I prefer) (maybe optionally leaves them separate?), and works to appleshare server (including unix machine via gatorbox) -- the only program I could find that does that correctly, though others try to claim it. And, it has a macro capability, including the ability to run macros unattended, so you can schedule back up in the middle of the night, but you must leave your machine on (surprise!) and you must leave fastback running. -Drew Wade drew@objy.com
nilesinc@well.UUCP (Avi Rappoport) (01/24/90)
In article <1990Jan13.012318.28263@deimos.cis.ksu.edu> jxf@phobos.cis.ksu.edu (Jerry Frain) writes: >Does anyone out there know of a backup utility that *compresses* data as >it writes it to [floppy] disk? > Just a word in favor of Redux. It does _not_ compress much, and it's not as good as Retrospect, but I really like it. A relatively simple program which gives me control over my backups. I didn't like DiskFit at all, and find this much more congenial. -- -- Help me justify my online bills: ask me EndNote questions, please! -- Avi Rappoport nilesinc@well.UUCP, Niles.Assoc on AppleLink 415-655-666 2000 Hearst, Berkeley, CA 94709