mkao@crash.cts.com (Mike Kao) (06/13/88)
How does I subscribe to this from my address? Thanks in advance.
--
To insure my reception of any replies, please respond via e-mail. Thanks!
-- Mike Kao
UUCP: {cbosgd, hplabs!hp-sdd, sdcsvax, nosc}!crash!pnet01!mkao
ARPA: crash!pnet01!mkao@nosc.mil
INET: mkao@pnet01.CTS.COMkovar@popvax.harvard.edu (David C. Kovar) (01/01/90)
I noticed that a demo of Raymond Lau's latest commerical effort is showing
up in comp.mac.binaries in ten parts. I've also noticed other people say
that their free software is stuck in the queue for comp.mac.binaries.
As much as I admire Mr. Lau's work, I wonder if it's "right" that a
demo of his commerical product takes up a lot of bandwidth in comp.mac.binaries
when there is a lot of other stuff that could be sent out. "Commerical
use of the net" is overused at times, but such demos seem to fall under
that category. Bandwidth is being used to advertise and sell a commerical
product.
If I'm off base, please let me know. Politely. I'm curious as to what
other people, including the moderator, think.
-David C. Kovar
Consultant ARPA: kovar@popvax.harvard.edu
Eclectic Associates BITNET: corwin@harvarda.bitnet
Ma Bell: 617-646-0428 MacNET: DKovar
"It is easier to get forgiveness than permission."
[All opinions expressed are my own. Noone else assumes responsibility for me.]jmunkki@kampi.hut.fi (Juri Munkki) (01/01/90)
A demo version that can be posted in one or two parts is ok, but I think that a 10 part binhex file of a demo is too much. I'd also like to see someone write a binary resource DIFF program so that programs like Disinfectant could be upgraded more easily. The probability that one part of a 10 part posting is missing too great to be ignored. Another way to avoid really large multipart postings that become useless because of one transmission error is to start sending smaller stuffit archives. Instead of archiving all the files into a single binhex file, I'd like to see the main application in one file, the manuals in another and the demo files in yet another. _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._ | Juri Munkki jmunkki@hut.fi jmunkki@fingate.bitnet I Want Ne | | Helsinki University of Technology Computing Centre My Own XT | ^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
knapp@cs.utexas.edu (Edgar Knapp) (01/01/90)
In article <3514@husc6.harvard.edu> kovar@popvax.harvard.edu (David C. Kovar) writes: > > I noticed that a demo of Raymond Lau's latest commerical effort is showing >up in comp.mac.binaries in ten parts. I've also noticed other people say >that their free software is stuck in the queue for comp.mac.binaries. >As much as I admire Mr. Lau's work, I wonder if it's "right" that a >demo of his commerical product takes up a lot of bandwidth in comp.mac.binaries >when there is a lot of other stuff that could be sent out. "Commerical >use of the net" is overused at times, but such demos seem to fall under >that category. Bandwidth is being used to advertise and sell a commerical >product. I could very well do completely without crippleware or commercial stuff on comp.binaries.mac. At least it should be the policy to give these postings the lowest possible priority. Edgar (knapp@cs.utexas.edu)
gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu (01/03/90)
I agree. Commercial demos should not appear in comp.binaries.mac. They might just go to the SUMEX archives. However, some people cannot access the SUMEX archives. These people will bitch like crazy.
markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) (01/03/90)
In article <126900136@p.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > ... > They might just go to the SUMEX archives. However, some people cannot > access the SUMEX archives. These people will bitch like crazy. Good idea! (and I don't even have access to SUMEX) I don't think we are sure that people would complain, so far there has not been a single person supporting the posting of demo programs in comp.mac.binaries. However, there hasn't been a lot of people complaining either. Personally I would like to see this practice stopped, at least give priority to non-demo programs if this hasn't been past practice. Mark Nettleingham ...!att!probe!markn
alen@crash.cts.com (Alen Shapiro) (01/04/90)
In article <126900136@p.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >I agree. Commercial demos should not appear in comp.binaries.mac. >They might just go to the SUMEX archives. However, some people cannot >access the SUMEX archives. These people will bitch like crazy. My vote too - if it says demo on it I hit the Junk key. I wonder if Info-Mac archives are a good place to get this stuff and a posting made to comp.sys.mac detailing items that are available. Beware though, I cannot get Info-Mac to mail me articles that are > 100k due to uucp mail restrictions. Can Info-Mac be made to split a mailing using LISTSERV? There is also a daily 250k limit on requests served but I'll wait a day for something I want, especially if it would grease comp.mac.binaries --alen the Lisa slayer (it's a long story) ...alen%shappy@crash.cts.com (a mac+ uucp host - what a concept!!) ...alen@crash.cts.com
bruceh@mentor.com (Bruce Holm) (01/05/90)
From article <1032@crash.cts.com>, by alen@crash.cts.com (Alen Shapiro): > In article <126900136@p.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >> >>I agree. Commercial demos should not appear in comp.binaries.mac. >>They might just go to the SUMEX archives. However, some people cannot >>access the SUMEX archives. These people will bitch like crazy. > > My vote too - if it says demo on it I hit the Junk key. I wonder > if Info-Mac archives are a good place to get this stuff and a posting > made to comp.sys.mac detailing items that are available. > > Beware though, I cannot get Info-Mac to mail me articles that are > 100k > due to uucp mail restrictions. Can Info-Mac be made to split a mailing > using LISTSERV? > > There is also a daily 250k limit on requests served but I'll wait > a day for something I want, especially if it would grease > comp.mac.binaries What's the big deal? Why are you against getting demos? I welcome any and all s/w that people are willing to give out. I can always trash it later if its junk, costs too much, or I don't need it. I can always choose not to download it in the first place if it looks uninteresting. If you have a hard time dealing with demos clogging comp.binaries.mac, then maybe its time for comp.binaries.mac.demos group to be created. Then you can unsubscribe to this group and we all can be happy. 8) --Bruce -- ** These are my opinions, & not necessarily those of Mentor Graphics Corp. ** Bruce Holm, Design/Analysis Div. / (503) 626-7000 Mentor Graphics Corp. / USENET: bruceh@pdx.MENTOR.COM Beaverton, OR 97005-7191 / UUCP: ...!{sequent,tessi,apollo}!mntgfx!bruceh
bruceh@mentor.com (Bruce Holm) (01/05/90)
From article <7208@ll1a.att.com>, by markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham): > In article <126900136@p.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >> ... >> They might just go to the SUMEX archives. However, some people cannot >> access the SUMEX archives. These people will bitch like crazy. > > Good idea! (and I don't even have access to SUMEX) > > I don't think we are sure that people would complain, so > far there has not been a single person supporting the posting of > demo programs in comp.mac.binaries. However, there hasn't been a > lot of people complaining either. I support the posting of demo programs! I don't see a problem with it. I can always junk anything I don't like after looking at it. Demos give you a chance to try before you buy. I wish other parts of the commercial world would give out demos...it would save a lot of grief for products I have bought and was sorry later because it didn't do what I wanted it to. If its clogging other stuff from getting out, then lets make a new newsgroup called comp.binaries.mac.demos. --Bruce -- ** These are my opinions, & not necessarily those of Mentor Graphics Corp. ** Bruce Holm, Design/Analysis Div. / (503) 626-7000 Mentor Graphics Corp. / USENET: bruceh@pdx.MENTOR.COM Beaverton, OR 97005-7191 / UUCP: ...!{sequent,tessi,apollo}!mntgfx!bruceh
wiseman@tellab5.TELLABS.COM (Jeff Wiseman) (01/05/90)
In article <1032@crash.cts.com> alen@crash.cts.com (Alen Shapiro) writes: >In article <126900136@p.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >> >>I agree. Commercial demos should not appear in comp.binaries.mac. >>They might just go to the SUMEX archives. However, some people cannot >>access the SUMEX archives. These people will bitch like crazy. > >My vote too - if it says demo on it I hit the Junk key. I wonder >if Info-Mac archives are a good place to get this stuff and a posting >made to comp.sys.mac detailing items that are available. > >Beware though, I cannot get Info-Mac to mail me articles that are > 100k >due to uucp mail restrictions. Can Info-Mac be made to split a mailing >using LISTSERV? [stuff deleted] I have mixed feelings about the demos on comp.binaries.mac. Some of them can be kind of fun (eg. Leprechaun). I Suppose that technically any shareware that is not paid for is "demo". I assume that the meaning of the word "demo" being discussed here is what is refered to sometimes as "crippleware". Anyway, I dunno... But I digress It was mentioned on the net before but there is an image of the sumex archive on the listserver at listserv@rice.bitnet It is not a "complete" archive and it is usually a few weeks behind sumex but it seems to be a good collection. What I mean by "complete" is that older software (ie. > year or two) and some indexes are not maintained. Check it out. I got a WHOLE MESS'a NEAT stuff there including my wonderful ADOBE screen fonts. -- Jeff Wiseman: ....uunet!tellab5!wiseman OR wiseman@TELLABS.COM
wlipa@oracle.oracle.com (William Lipa) (01/05/90)
In article <1932@tellab5.TELLABS.COM> wiseman@tellab5.UUCP (Jeff Wiseman) writes: >It was mentioned on the net before but there is an image of the sumex archive >at listserv@rice.bitnet. It is not a "complete" archive and it >is usually a few weeks behind sumex but it seems to be a good collection. What >I mean by "complete" is that older software (ie. > year or two) and some >indexes are not maintained. As far as I know, the archive at Rice is updated automatically every night. This is different than MACSERVE@PUCC, which was updated by hand last time I checked. Also, I am quite sure that it maintains a copy of every file at sumex. However, old and unpopular files at sumex are deleted in order to make room for new submissions. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of. Bill Lipa Info-Mac
ADAM.FRIX@f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (ADAM FRIX) (01/05/90)
Edgar Knapp writes:
EK> >I noticed that a demo of Raymond Lau's latest commerical effort
EK> >is showing up in comp.mac.binaries in ten parts. I've also
EK> >noticed other people say that their free software is stuck in the
EK> >queue for comp.mac.binaries. As much as I admire Mr. Lau's work,
EK> >I wonder if it's "right" that a demo of his commerical product
EK> >takes up a lot of bandwidth in comp.mac.binaries when there is a
EK> >lot of other stuff that could be sent out. "Commerical use of the
EK> >net" is overused at times, but such demos seem to fall under that
EK> >category. Bandwidth is being used to advertise and sell a
EK> >commerical product.
EK>
EK> I could very well do completely without crippleware or commercial
EK> stuff on comp.binaries.mac. At least it should be the policy to
EK> give these postings the lowest possible priority.
I guess it didn't bother me too much, one way or the other. If the
decision came down to strike such stuff, I don't think I'd yell or scream
or anything. On the other hand, if it comes through, oh well. I guess my
attitude in this case is tempered by the fact that this "demo" of Ray
Lau's ShortCut is NOT crippleware, but rather a demo done in a HyperCard
stack. I think I do agree that I, and the world, could do without
crippleware. That sounds like a good starting place for restricting
commerical stuff, at any rate. Give the commercial stuff low priority,
fine. That makes perfect sense.
--Adam--
--
ADAM FRIX via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH
UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!200!ADAM.FRIX
INET: ADAM.FRIX@f200.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGwillcox@urbana.mcd.mot.com (David A Willcox) (01/18/90)
About the question of demo programs on comp.binaries.mac .... I think that a 12-part demo of a game program is way out of line. There has got to be more useful stuff backed up in the queue. (I am referring, of course, to the recent posting of a new version of shanghai.)
hunter@oakhill.UUCP (Hunter Scales) (01/20/90)
willcox@urbana.mcd.mot.com (David A Willcox) writes: >About the question of demo programs on comp.binaries.mac .... >I think that a 12-part demo of a game program is way out of line. >There has got to be more useful stuff backed up in the queue. >(I am referring, of course, to the recent posting of a new version of >shanghai.) I agree. Perhaps"demos" and "crippleware" could be given a lower priority in the queue than pd and/or other useful software. -- Motorola Semiconductor Inc. Hunter Scales Austin, Texas {harvard,utah-cs,gatech}!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!hunter #include <disclaimer.h>
jsp@key.COM (James Preston) (01/23/90)
In article <1110@urbana.mcd.mot.com> willcox@urbana.mcd.mot.com (David A Willcox) writes: >About the question of demo programs on comp.binaries.mac .... > >I think that a 12-part demo of a game program is way out of line. >There has got to be more useful stuff backed up in the queue. I agree with this completely. I think we should establish a maximum size for commercial or demo programs. Is the moderator out there? Can we get some official word on this? --James Preston
casey@ultra.com (Casey Cox) (01/23/90)
My question is: Why does it take so long to get things thru comp.mac.binaries? What is this "queue of programs waiting to be posted" nonsense? I understand that there is some poor moderator out there processing submisstions, but how long should it take to make a decision to post or not to post?????? -- Casey Cox Ultra Network Technologies / 101 Daggett Drive / San Jose CA 95134 casey@ultra.com ...!ames!ultra!casey (408) 922-0100
pasek@ncrcce.StPaul.NCR.COM (Michael A. Pasek) (01/25/90)
In article <1990Jan22.185856.6930@ultra.com> casey@ultra.com (Casey Cox) writes: >My question is: Why does it take so long to get things thru comp.mac.binaries? >What is this "queue of programs waiting to be posted" nonsense? I understand >that there is some poor moderator out there processing submisstions, but how >long should it take to make a decision to post or not to post?????? I think one of the reasons it takes so long is that the moderator has other things to do (I doubt if this "job" carries any financial incentives with it-- perhaps Casey would like to take over ?). I think (hope) that another reason it takes so long is that the moderator does some verification that the program works (on various machines/configurations), and (most important), has no DISASTROUS effects (e.g., trashing disks, virii, etc.). While I agree that comp.binaries.mac is not the place for HUGE crippleware posts, there's no need to flame the moderator. M. A. Pasek Switching Software Development NCR Comten, Inc. (612) 638-7668 CNG-er-PU4-er-MNI Development 2700 N. Snelling Ave. pasek@c10sd3.StPaul.NCR.COM Roseville, MN 55113