EWTILENI@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Eric William Tilenius) (02/05/90)
TIPS ON BUYING A MAC
About a month ago, I posted a message to this newsgroup asking for help
and suggestions in picking out a Mac II system. I received literally
dozens of replies and would like to thank all those who helped me out.
As promised, here's a summary of the suggestions people offered as well
as lessions learned from my own weeks of evaluating products. Hope this
helps all you prospective Mac buyers out there!
WHAT CPU TO BUY
I chose the Mac IIcx. Basically, after talking with users and reading
extensively, I concluded that buying anything other than a II family of
Mac was a bit shortsighted. The entire architecture of the Mac II series
is greatly superior not only in terms of design, but more importantly in
terms of expandability. If you're not buying a Mac II, you're closing off
a whole world of opportunity -- everything from cards to color to speed.
The Mac IIcx was chosen over the IIx because of its smaller size (desk space
is tight here) and its slightly cheaper price. Plus, the computer has an
EXCELLENT reputation. Everyone who had one raved about it!
Chosing it over the IIci turned out to be a bit more tricky. I originally
thought that buying the IIci might not be that much more expensive due to
the ci's built-in video card. But (CAVEATS!) not only does using the ci's
internal video card SLOW THE CI WAY DOWN, thus eliminating much of its speed
advantage, but the card does not work properly with Apple's Portrait display,
which I was considering. To really use a IIci, you need to buy a video
card, just like on a IIcx. And this made the price prohibitive. I still
like the machine, but you have to have megabucks to go for the IIci...
CPU OF CHOICE: Mac IIcx
BUYING MEMORY
This was an easy one. 0% of the people recommended I buy Apple memory.
Even someone from Apple said to buy third party and install it yourself.
It's easy to see why. Apple's 4 Meg upgrade sells for close to $1,500.
Calling up the memory dealers in the back of MacUser, I was able to
acquire an additional 4 Megs for only $300. There's a pretty penny saved!
Make sure to get 80ns or faster (70ns) SIMMS. With the IIcx, 80ns will
do the job just fine. The IIci should have the 70ns. Also, when calling
the dealer be sure to ask if they include installation instructions. Many
don't, which is fine if you're reasonably sure of what to do (it's not too
hard on the IIcx -- you just move Apple's RAM to a different set of SIMM
slots and pop in the new boards) but it helps to have the crutch of printed
directions if you're at all nervous.
Finally, ask about warranties and software. These are the other two areas
where RAM dealers vary. The Chip Merchant is about the cheapest, but it
also includes no instructions and no software, so beware.
Oh, and BTW, buying 4 Megs WILL give you a total of 5 Megs in your machine.
Buying 8 Megs will only give you 8 Megs (you'll have to remove Apple's RAM).
RAM OF CHOICE: 80ns SIMMS, 4 Megs additional, anything BUT Apple!
BUYING A HARD DRIVE
For a Mac IIcx, most everyone recommended getting AT LEAST an 80 Meg drive.
One major decision is whether to go internal or external. They both have
their plusses...
INTERNAL -- Cheaper, less likely to be jarred, takes up less desk space.
EXTERNAL -- Easier to transport, can be used on another computer easily.
And their minuses...
INTERNAL -- Whither the computer goeth for repair, there, too, goeth the drive.
EXTERNAL -- Uses desk space (w/ a IIcx), prone to bumping, more expensive.
I decided on an INTERNAL drive since it was $100 cheaper and wouldn't take
up extra desk space. These are very easy to install on a IIcx - you just
screw in about 4 screws and plug in two cables.
What drive to get? Hmmmm... The Quantum ProDrive series got excellent
ratings, both from those who used them and from a MacUser evaluation. Many
firms repackage these drives under different names. Evidently, the drives
shipping in 1989 BEFORE DECEMBER or so had problems with the lubrication.
The newer drives have that fixed, so it is important to make sure your
dealer has as new a Quantum mechanism as possible.
The Quantum ProDrives are fast and, perhaps more importantly, QUIET.
I decided on a 105 Meg drive. The difference between 80 and 105 megs was
slightly under $100, not a bad deal ($4 a meg!). I had been looking at
the "big guys" with their full-page ads in MacUser when a friend mentioned
that he had gotten the 105 Meg internal for $699 -- with an effective 12ms
time (the faster the better, of course). This knocks off a good 100 bucks
and 7 ms off the normal Quantum 105 prices ($799 with 19ms access).
The company is Alliance Peripheral Systems (APS) and has an ad in the March
MacUser on p. 278. Essentially, they use a Quantum ProDrive and add a 64K
RAM cache to the drive to speed up effective access. It's still a 19 ms
drive, but performance goes up because of it. AND their prices are as low
as any I've seen.
But what really impressed me when I called Alliance Peripheral Systems was
how knowledgeable the people on the other end were. If you're in the market
for any kind of hard drive, I'd recommend calling. Their number is
800-233-7550.
They also throw in a pack of utilities and public domain software, pre-format
and test the drive, and can sell you Redux 1.6 for a mere $30 with your order.
HARD DRIVE PICKED: APS Quantum Pro 105
KLICK KLACKING AWAY
A keyboard is a rather personal thing. I knew I wanted an extended one,
as function keys are a real timesaver. I opted for the Mac-101 from
DataDesk ($139 from MacConnection, with a 30-day trial). I like it, although
to tell the truth, I also like Apple's Extended. Some people have bitched
about the Mac-101, others have raved. It's arranged and feels a bit like
an IBM clone keyboard, not surprising since Datadesk merely took a clone
keyboard and rewired it for the Mac. (Yes, it does include a hot button
to turn the Mac IIcx on!) My suggestion? Give it a try, and ship it back
if you prefer the Apple keyboard.
One user suggests the Cutting Edge extended keyboard. I tried it and it
felt pretty nice. May be worth checking out.
KEYBOARD: Mac-101 from Datadesk.
EYE ON THE WORLD -- MONITORS
Picking a monitor was one of the hardest parts. I do a lot of word
processing, and single-page layout, so I decided on a full-page display.
It really is a godsend not to have to flip up and down in a tiny 9" SE
screen! Those who do real heavy page layout and newsletter design may
want a two-page display. Hell, ANYONE may want a two-page display, since
bigger in a monitor is always better for working.
Caution: Those two-page displays are MAMMOTH. You'll need a good Meg of
deskspace and a 50 pound lifting ability to work with them. Plus, they're
a good deal more expensive on the whole. So, I opted for a single-page
display.
On the cheap end, Samsung has a FPD with a card that can be had for $500
if you look around. Evidently, it works fine, although isn't as well
crafted as the Apple monitor.
Everyone has raved about Apple's portrait display. It has a nice picture
and, what's more, can support 16 grey scales. Grey scale is a really good
option, since it effectively increases your screen definition by a hefty
factor since you eliminate a lot of "dithering" (dot patterns of black
and white trying to imitate grey). It really makes graphics a lot nicer
and clearer.
You'll have to buy an enhancement to the Portrait Video Card, Apple part
# M0213 (Video Card Expansion) to get the full 16 shades of grey. Otherwise
you only have 4 shades to work with. If you deal with graphics at all, it's
worth it to move up to 16 grey scales.
BTW, Apple's Portrait Display won an Eddy for "Best Monitor" in 1989.
MONITOR OF CHOICE: Apple Portrait Display w/ Portrait Video Card & Expansion
EEEEK! A MOUSE!!
I asked about alternative input devices. Many folks recommended the
Kensington Turbo Mouse (a trackball) and the A+ optical mouse.
In the end, those who pointed out that the Apple mouse is free, so use-it-
until-you-get-sick-of-it-or-it-busts-then-buy-non-Apple won out. So, no
alternative input device as yet, sad to say.
SUMMARY RECOMMENDATIONS
=======================
* Buy a Mac IIcx, IIx, or IIci - definitely! A IIcx is one of the best deals.
* DO get more memory, but not from Apple. Call mail order dealers.
* BUY at least 80 megs worth of hard drive space. Do buy a Quantum ProDrive.
At least consider APS, as they're a hellishly good deal.
* TRY a keyboard before you buy. Make sure you can ship it back for a refund
if it's mail order. It's worth considering the Mac-101 from Datadesk.
Extended keyboards do offer nicer features.
* GO with a full-page display if you do a lot of word processing. Apple's
Portrait Display is expensive, but about the best around. Purchase the
$100 video expansion card with it to give it 16 levels of grey.
* ASK lots of questions before buying!! There are a lot of helpful people
out there who are happy to share their experiences.
* And, yes, use MAIL ORDER. It works.
- ERIC -
(__) Eric W. Tilenius
(oo)
/-------\/ President, Princeton Planetary Society
/ | ||
* ||----|| 609-734-7677 // ewtileni@pucc.Princeton.EDUhodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Josh Hodas) (02/05/90)
I have various comments to make about this post, so I will intersperse them with the note itself. There was a lot of good in the article, but also some misconceptions that need to be corrected. In article <10518@pucc.Princeton.EDU> EWTILENI@pucc.Princeton.EDU writes: > > TIPS ON BUYING A MAC > >About a month ago, I posted a message to this newsgroup asking for help >and suggestions in picking out a Mac II system. I received literally >dozens of replies and would like to thank all those who helped me out. > >As promised, here's a summary of the suggestions people offered as well >as lessions learned from my own weeks of evaluating products. Hope this >helps all you prospective Mac buyers out there! > > WHAT CPU TO BUY > >I chose the Mac IIcx. Basically, after talking with users and reading >extensively, I concluded that buying anything other than a II family of >Mac was a bit shortsighted. The entire architecture of the Mac II series >is greatly superior not only in terms of design, but more importantly in >terms of expandability. If you're not buying a Mac II, you're closing off >a whole world of opportunity -- everything from cards to color to speed. > >The Mac IIcx was chosen over the IIx because of its smaller size (desk space >is tight here) and its slightly cheaper price. Plus, the computer has an >EXCELLENT reputation. Everyone who had one raved about it! > >Chosing it over the IIci turned out to be a bit more tricky. I originally >thought that buying the IIci might not be that much more expensive due to >the ci's built-in video card. But (CAVEATS!) not only does using the ci's >internal video card SLOW THE CI WAY DOWN, thus eliminating much of its speed >advantage, but the card does not work properly with Apple's Portrait display, >which I was considering. To really use a IIci, you need to buy a video >card, just like on a IIcx. And this made the price prohibitive. I still >like the machine, but you have to have megabucks to go for the IIci... > Well, sort of... In a base configuration (1 meg or 4 megs of RAM) the internal video does slow down the machine a fair amount. But if you have both banks of RAM filled then memory accesses into the second bank are not affected by the internal video. So, you put enough RAM into the first bank to satisfy the video needs, and put the bulk of your RAM in the second bank. My ci has 1 meg in Bank A and 4 in bank B, and the video really doesnt slow it down much. Im not sure what you mean by problems with the portrait display. I havent heard of any other than having to make sure you get the right cable. Of course thre may be problems I havent heard of. If so Id like to hear about them so I will stay informed. >CPU OF CHOICE: Mac IIcx > > BUYING MEMORY > >This was an easy one. 0% of the people recommended I buy Apple memory. >Even someone from Apple said to buy third party and install it yourself. >It's easy to see why. Apple's 4 Meg upgrade sells for close to $1,500. >Calling up the memory dealers in the back of MacUser, I was able to >acquire an additional 4 Megs for only $300. There's a pretty penny saved! > >Make sure to get 80ns or faster (70ns) SIMMS. With the IIcx, 80ns will >do the job just fine. The IIci should have the 70ns. Also, when calling >the dealer be sure to ask if they include installation instructions. Many >don't, which is fine if you're reasonably sure of what to do (it's not too >hard on the IIcx -- you just move Apple's RAM to a different set of SIMM >slots and pop in the new boards) but it helps to have the crutch of printed >directions if you're at all nervous. > >Finally, ask about warranties and software. These are the other two areas >where RAM dealers vary. The Chip Merchant is about the cheapest, but it >also includes no instructions and no software, so beware. > >Oh, and BTW, buying 4 Megs WILL give you a total of 5 Megs in your machine. >Buying 8 Megs will only give you 8 Megs (you'll have to remove Apple's RAM). > >RAM OF CHOICE: 80ns SIMMS, 4 Megs additional, anything BUT Apple! > Sorry, this is just plain wrong. The IIci needs 80ns fast page mode RAM. 70ns RAM wont get you any advantage. Almost all RAM is FPM so you shouldnt worry too much about that, but might want to ask to be sure. The II, IIx, and IIcx can all be run on 120ns RAM (Please lord make this right, I'm a little sleepy now and could have slipped on this one. I know the II can run on 120's and I'm just about positive the IIx and cx will. At worst they need 100's. I know they dont need 80ns.) THe point about instructions is well taken, though for the II's apple has provided pretty sufficient instructions in the manuals. The only software I can imagine taking into consideration is the current fullwrite offer from Technology Works. I myself have bought a fair amount (about 20 megs) of RAM from chip merchant and been very happy. As to warrantees, I dont think that the difference between 5 years and lifetime is worth much, for two reasons. First, I find it hard to imagine that many of these companies will exist in five years. Second, I'd be pretty shocked if I still have 1 meg simms in my machine in that time. While this sort of machine turnover is not typical of most users I would say it is probably a reasonable assumption for the sort of buyer who might be thinking of a IIci now. > BUYING A HARD DRIVE > >For a Mac IIcx, most everyone recommended getting AT LEAST an 80 Meg drive. > >One major decision is whether to go internal or external. They both have >their plusses... > >INTERNAL -- Cheaper, less likely to be jarred, takes up less desk space. >EXTERNAL -- Easier to transport, can be used on another computer easily. > >And their minuses... > >INTERNAL -- Whither the computer goeth for repair, there, too, goeth the drive. >EXTERNAL -- Uses desk space (w/ a IIcx), prone to bumping, more expensive. > >I decided on an INTERNAL drive since it was $100 cheaper and wouldn't take >up extra desk space. These are very easy to install on a IIcx - you just >screw in about 4 screws and plug in two cables. > >What drive to get? Hmmmm... The Quantum ProDrive series got excellent >ratings, both from those who used them and from a MacUser evaluation. Many >firms repackage these drives under different names. Evidently, the drives >shipping in 1989 BEFORE DECEMBER or so had problems with the lubrication. >The newer drives have that fixed, so it is important to make sure your >dealer has as new a Quantum mechanism as possible. > >The Quantum ProDrives are fast and, perhaps more importantly, QUIET. > >I decided on a 105 Meg drive. The difference between 80 and 105 megs was >slightly under $100, not a bad deal ($4 a meg!). I had been looking at >the "big guys" with their full-page ads in MacUser when a friend mentioned >that he had gotten the 105 Meg internal for $699 -- with an effective 12ms >time (the faster the better, of course). This knocks off a good 100 bucks >and 7 ms off the normal Quantum 105 prices ($799 with 19ms access). > >The company is Alliance Peripheral Systems (APS) and has an ad in the March >MacUser on p. 278. Essentially, they use a Quantum ProDrive and add a 64K >RAM cache to the drive to speed up effective access. It's still a 19 ms >drive, but performance goes up because of it. AND their prices are as low >as any I've seen. > >But what really impressed me when I called Alliance Peripheral Systems was >how knowledgeable the people on the other end were. If you're in the market >for any kind of hard drive, I'd recommend calling. Their number is >800-233-7550. > >They also throw in a pack of utilities and public domain software, pre-format >and test the drive, and can sell you Redux 1.6 for a mere $30 with your order. > >HARD DRIVE PICKED: APS Quantum Pro 105 > ARGHHHHHH!!! Every Quantum pro-drive made (pro40s,pro80s,pro105s) has a 64k RAM cache and an effective (as computed by Quantum) access time of 12ms. Its just that some resellers feel it is more appropriate to list the uncached access time of 19ms since the other is heavily dependent on usage. I will say that APS's $699 price seems quite good for the drive; I just want you to realize that everyone else was selling the same drive. Also note that Quantum will shortly be releasing an entirely new line of drives to replace the pro series. > KLICK KLACKING AWAY > >A keyboard is a rather personal thing. I knew I wanted an extended one, >as function keys are a real timesaver. I opted for the Mac-101 from >DataDesk ($139 from MacConnection, with a 30-day trial). I like it, although >to tell the truth, I also like Apple's Extended. Some people have bitched >about the Mac-101, others have raved. It's arranged and feels a bit like >an IBM clone keyboard, not surprising since Datadesk merely took a clone >keyboard and rewired it for the Mac. (Yes, it does include a hot button >to turn the Mac IIcx on!) My suggestion? Give it a try, and ship it back >if you prefer the Apple keyboard. > >One user suggests the Cutting Edge extended keyboard. I tried it and it >felt pretty nice. May be worth checking out. > >KEYBOARD: Mac-101 from Datadesk. No real comment here other than subjective ones. I have used all these keyboards and prefer Apple's. It just feels most solidly made to me. I agree however that it is worth taking advantage of some of the 30 day trials to see if you like one of these since you could save some money. Also note that the cutting edge keyboard is also sold by Ehman directly for a few dollars less than I have seen the cutting edge labeled unit. This is true of all cutting edge products, that is just the name that Ehman uses when dealing through resellers rather than directly. > > EYE ON THE WORLD -- MONITORS > >Picking a monitor was one of the hardest parts. I do a lot of word >processing, and single-page layout, so I decided on a full-page display. >It really is a godsend not to have to flip up and down in a tiny 9" SE >screen! Those who do real heavy page layout and newsletter design may >want a two-page display. Hell, ANYONE may want a two-page display, since >bigger in a monitor is always better for working. > >Caution: Those two-page displays are MAMMOTH. You'll need a good Meg of >deskspace and a 50 pound lifting ability to work with them. Plus, they're >a good deal more expensive on the whole. So, I opted for a single-page >display. > >On the cheap end, Samsung has a FPD with a card that can be had for $500 >if you look around. Evidently, it works fine, although isn't as well >crafted as the Apple monitor. > >Everyone has raved about Apple's portrait display. It has a nice picture >and, what's more, can support 16 grey scales. Grey scale is a really good >option, since it effectively increases your screen definition by a hefty >factor since you eliminate a lot of "dithering" (dot patterns of black >and white trying to imitate grey). It really makes graphics a lot nicer >and clearer. > >You'll have to buy an enhancement to the Portrait Video Card, Apple part ># M0213 (Video Card Expansion) to get the full 16 shades of grey. Otherwise >you only have 4 shades to work with. If you deal with graphics at all, it's >worth it to move up to 16 grey scales. > >BTW, Apple's Portrait Display won an Eddy for "Best Monitor" in 1989. > >MONITOR OF CHOICE: Apple Portrait Display w/ Portrait Video Card & Expansion > Note that the IIci directly drives the portrait screen at 16 greyscales. No upgrade is necessary. > EEEEK! A MOUSE!! > >I asked about alternative input devices. Many folks recommended the >Kensington Turbo Mouse (a trackball) and the A+ optical mouse. > >In the end, those who pointed out that the Apple mouse is free, so use-it- >until-you-get-sick-of-it-or-it-busts-then-buy-non-Apple won out. So, no >alternative input device as yet, sad to say. > > SUMMARY RECOMMENDATIONS > ======================= > >* Buy a Mac IIcx, IIx, or IIci - definitely! A IIcx is one of the best deals. > >* DO get more memory, but not from Apple. Call mail order dealers. > >* BUY at least 80 megs worth of hard drive space. Do buy a Quantum ProDrive. > At least consider APS, as they're a hellishly good deal. > >* TRY a keyboard before you buy. Make sure you can ship it back for a refund > if it's mail order. It's worth considering the Mac-101 from Datadesk. > Extended keyboards do offer nicer features. > >* GO with a full-page display if you do a lot of word processing. Apple's > Portrait Display is expensive, but about the best around. Purchase the > $100 video expansion card with it to give it 16 levels of grey. > >* ASK lots of questions before buying!! There are a lot of helpful people > out there who are happy to share their experiences. > >* And, yes, use MAIL ORDER. It works. > THese points I agree with. >- ERIC - > > (__) Eric W. Tilenius > (oo) > /-------\/ President, Princeton Planetary Society > / | || >* ||----|| 609-734-7677 // ewtileni@pucc.Princeton.EDU ------------------------- Josh Hodas (hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu) 4223 Pine Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 (215) 222-7112 (home) (215) 898-5423 (school office) Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder Line eater fodder ------------------------- Josh Hodas (hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu) 4223 Pine Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 (215) 222-7112 (home) (215) 898-5423 (school office)
hunter@oakhill.UUCP (Hunter Scales) (02/05/90)
EWTILENI@pucc.Princeton.EDU (Eric William Tilenius) writes: > TIPS ON BUYING A MAC [followed by a well-written, timely analysis of Mac purchasing alternatives] Eric, thanks for taking the time to post this article. An excellent example of what the net is for. -- Motorola Semiconductor Inc. Hunter Scales Austin, Texas {harvard,utah-cs,gatech}!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!hunter #include <disclaimer.h>