sandro@nlm-mcs.arpa (Michael D'Alessandro) (02/12/90)
I'm interested in purchasing a couple of flight simulators for my Macs (a Plus and a IIci) and would like comments from any users of the following flight simulators: Falcon Microsoft JET Microsoft Flight Simulator Chuck Yeagers's Flight Simulator P-51 Mustang First - are there any Mac flight simulators besides these? Next - do any of these support color on a Mac II? Finally - I guess I am most interested in JET. I've tried Falcon and it is too complex to be enjoyable for me, and from what I've read about JET is (it) sounds like a more playable and enjoyable simulation than Falcon. Anyone tried them both? -- Michael D'Alessandro M.D. The National Library of Medicine Lister Hill National Center for Biomedical Communications Educational Technology Branch Internet: sandro@mcs.nlm.nih.gov
dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) (02/12/90)
In article <11393@nlm-mcs.arpa> sandro@nlm-mcs.arpa (Michael D'Alessandro) writes: >Microsoft JET I don't think that JET is from Microsoft. Last I looked, it was from SubLogic. Also, I recall that it said explicitly that it would not work on a Mac II. >Microsoft Flight Simulator This only works on a Plus (or previous), and you have to boot from the Microsoft disk. >Next - do any of these support color on a Mac II? From the infamous games list: Falcon - 1, mf, II Chuck Yeager Flight Simulator - *, mf, II That is, Falcon forces you to go into 1-bit mode (not acceptable to me, even with Switcheroo), works under MultiFinder, and works on a II. Chuck Yeager works under any screen depth (at least I think that's what we decided), and with MultiFinder and Mac II's. -- David Elliott dce@smsc.sony.com | ...!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!dce (408)944-4073 "You see everything -- you're omnivorous."
dce@smsc.sony.com (David Elliott) (02/12/90)
In article <1990Feb12.034306.20834@smsc.sony.com> dce@Sony.COM (David Elliott) writes: > Falcon - 1, mf, II > Chuck Yeager Flight Simulator - *, mf, II Oops, I forgot something. Just because these say they are Mac II-compatible doesn't mean that they are IIci-compatible. Some programs may have problems with 32-bit QuickDraw, which is builtin to the IIci. Others may not be playable due to the speed of the machine. Also, there are programs for which copy-protection is broken on the IIci. Sadly, there is no complete compatability matrix available for software. Reviewers tend to give minimum system requirements, but even those magazines which are nothing but lists of software do not give information like whether or not the software works under MultiFinder, what screen depths are supported, whether big screens are supported, or even if the software works on a given machine. My advice is to only buy software with a money-back guarantee. That way, you can send it back if it doesn't work, and the fact that you returned it may get back to the manufacturer and get them to fix the code. -- David Elliott dce@smsc.sony.com | ...!{uunet,mips}!sonyusa!dce (408)944-4073 "You see everything -- you're omnivorous."
mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) (02/12/90)
In article <11393@nlm-mcs.arpa> sandro@nlm-mcs.arpa (Michael D'Alessandro) writes: >I'm interested in purchasing a couple of flight simulators for my Macs (a Plus >and a IIci) and would like comments from any users of the following flight >simulators: > >Falcon >Microsoft JET >Microsoft Flight Simulator >Chuck Yeagers's Flight Simulator >P-51 Mustang Hi, I own both Falcon and Chuck Yeager's AFT. I agree with your sentiment (which I deleted above) that Falcon is too complicated. It also doesn't run on non-Apple color cards, which lets me out now that I have a IIx with SuperMac's Colorcard/24 (which I dearly love, BTW). I'm afraid that Chuck's may be out for you too, at least on the IIci. AFT does not run under Color QuickDraw (at least not the RAM version...), so you have to drag it elsewhere and reboot. This is not possible on the 'ci, since it's in ROM. Too bad, too, since I think AFT is one of the best I've tried (and I've flown WWII airplanes; it does a decent (not great) job with the Mustang). Electronic Arts told me that they don't have an upgrade to AFT 1.0, which is too bad, since it has some other bugs, too, although none are major (color glitches mostly). I've not tried P-51 Mustang. I'd like to hear from anyone who has, especialy on a MacII with a non-Apple video board. I thing MS Flight Simulator dies on a II-series, but I'm not sure of that at all. Never tried JET. --Mike
cfj@nosun.UUCP (Charlie Johnson) (02/13/90)
I have AFT for my SE/30. We bought it because (supposedly.) it was the only flight simulator which will run on the 68030 machines. It's pretty hard to fly at first for the novice. (I'm not a pilot and haven't used any other flight simulators.) You have a choice of about a dozen different planes from a Cessna to a SR-71. It has a pretty good training mode which teaches how to fly and also teaches you some of the acrobatics like loops, rolls, etc. As a games though, it has some drawbacks in that the terrain never changes. It really doesn't have much of a games playing sequence. The way each plan handles is quite different which is probably realistic. (Try a 360 degree roll in a SR-71 and see what happens.) Good points are that it isn't copy protected and it runs under multifinder. --Charles Johnson Intel Scientfic Computers Beaverton, OR cfj@isc.intel.com
msmiller@glass.Sun.COM (Mark Miller) (02/13/90)
In article <11393@nlm-mcs.arpa> sandro@nlm-mcs.arpa (Michael D'Alessandro) writes: >I'm interested in purchasing a couple of flight simulators for my Macs (a Plus >and a IIci) and would like comments from any users of the following flight >simulators: > >Falcon >Microsoft JET >Microsoft Flight Simulator >Chuck Yeagers's Flight Simulator >P-51 Mustang > >First - are there any Mac flight simulators besides these? > >Next - do any of these support color on a Mac II? MS Flight Sim is kind of disapointing. P-51 is a very good simulation but is wireframe drawing only. I think it now supports the MacII but I don't think it runs color. Falcon has a lot of bells and whistles but the air-to-air combat animation really bags it and the thing is almost impossible to land. The fun part of Falcon (for me anyway) is the ground-attack stuff - lotsa neat air-to-mud weapons. Of course, this isn't what the F-16 was initially designed to do. The other option is Air Warrior which is available on GEnie. This is a real-time multi-player WW2 air-combat simulator which will run in color on a MacII. You play against other people from all over the country in real-time. The flight simulation is OK (i.e. it has problems) but the GAME takes months and months to master because you play against people. The downside is that at $6/hr AW can gobble VISA cards at an enormous rate. Also, if GEnie is having a bad day, AW becomes almost unplayable due to network delays. -MSM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mark S. Miller UUCP: msmiller@Sun.COM "In a nation ruled by swine, ################## GEnie: MSMILLER all pigs are upward mobile." ###################################################### - Hunter S. Thompson
carlo@merlin.cvs.rochester.edu (Carlo Tiana) (02/13/90)
>Some programs may have problems with 32-bit QuickDraw, which is builtin >to the IIci. Others may not be playable due to the speed of the machine. Chuck Yaeger's Flight Simulator works on a IIci. As on all color Macs, it uses only 16 colors, though. In addition, try it out before you buy it: I am a Microsoft FS veteran (both on PC's and Mac Pluses) and, even in B&W on a Plus, I used to have more fun with it than in color on a IIci with Chuck Yaeger's. The terrain info is great in Microsoft's FS. Now if only you could fly more planes and have color and more detailed terrain info.... Carlo carlo@cvs.rochester.edu
wiseman@tellab5.TELLABS.COM (Jeff Wiseman) (02/14/90)
In article <11393@nlm-mcs.arpa> sandro@nlm-mcs.arpa (Michael D'Alessandro) writes: >I'm interested in purchasing a couple of flight simulators for my Macs (a Plus >and a IIci) and would like comments from any users of the following flight [stuff deleted] >Next - do any of these support color on a Mac II? I have Chuck Yeagar. It was given to me by my brother for Christmas. I really like it. It is NOT a shoot 'em up type simulator but rather a flight trainer that lets you try different types of aircraft (11 I think). Some things are oversimplified but others are quit good (my daughter of 7 flies the cessena). I used to run it on my SE and one day I took it into work and tried it on a MacII with standard color screen. It worked real nice (uses 16 color mode). Furthermore, it adapted to the size of the screen so that you could actually see more. And THEN...Last week we got a new MacIIx with a 21 inch color screen! (just had to try it!). IT WORKED GREAT!! It adapted to the 21 inch. When you sit close to the screen and do a 2.5Mach flyby of one of the land objects in the SR71, it's pretty neat! Ground objects are plain (pyramids, blocks, etc.) but you can race against up to three of your best races through an obstical type race course. Or you can just take the flying lessons and learn how to make a proper approach to a runway. As a flight simulator and trainer, I like it and you can learn it real quick (G toggles gear, F toggles flaps , 0-9 is thrust, etc. only about 10 keys to learn.) Hope this helps -- Jeff Wiseman: ....uunet!tellab5!wiseman OR wiseman@TELLABS.COM
wiseman@tellab5.TELLABS.COM (Jeff Wiseman) (02/14/90)
In article <5222@ur-cc.UUCP> carlo@cvs.rochester.edu (Carlo Tiana) writes: [stuff deleted] >Yaeger's. The terrain info is great in Microsoft's FS. Now if only you >could fly more planes and have color and more detailed terrain info.... Or if Chuck Yaeger's would just add detailed terrain info... I have flown Microsoft's FS but I personally prefer CY. One thing that I forgot to mention in my earlier posting. For all you would - be radio control pilots, one thing that is fun with CY is to set the view to Tower and then watch the 3-D plane fly around it while you control it. This is not easy with an F-18 flying at 1.2Mach... -- Jeff Wiseman: ....uunet!tellab5!wiseman OR wiseman@TELLABS.COM
root@brain.UUCP (Chuck Shotton) (02/14/90)
The current version of Chuck Yeager's AFT DOES run on a IIci with no problems and AMAZING smoothness of the animation. It's a good flight simulator for beginners, but has little to do with real airplanes. The controls don't behave correctly when the plane is in strange attitudes, and there's really nothing much to do except fly around. (No instruments to speak of, nothing to shoot.) The races are fun, but that's about it. Still, the animation is very impressive on the IIci.
t-dougls@microsoft.UUCP (Douglas Strauss) (02/14/90)
In article <1990Feb12.034306.20834@smsc.sony.com> dce@Sony.COM (David Elliott) writes: >In article <11393@nlm-mcs.arpa> sandro@nlm-mcs.arpa (Michael D'Alessandro) writes: >>Microsoft JET > >I don't think that JET is from Microsoft. Last I looked, it was from >SubLogic. Also, I recall that it said explicitly that it would not >work on a Mac II. > >>Microsoft Flight Simulator > >This only works on a Plus (or previous), and you have to boot from the >Microsoft disk. > Well, MS Flight Sim, will also run on a Mac SE.
Mark.Bryant@p1.f54.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Mark Bryant) (02/14/90)
In a message dated 02/12/90 at 00:40:40, sandro@nim-mcs.arpa writes: > I'm interested in purchasing a couple of flight simulators for > my Macs (a Plus and a IIci) and would like comments from any > users of the following flight simulators: > > Falcon > Microsoft JET > Microsoft Flight Simulator > Chuck Yeagers's Flight Simulator > P-51 Mustang Falcon: Really fast, challenging, accurate simulation, and, you can have dogfights over AppleTalk. Microsoft Flight Simulator: Haven't used this in a while, not sure it still works with later versions of the System. The copy I bought was copy-protected, and very poorly implemented in terms of adhering to the Mac interface. Still, it's a fairly nice simulation, with lots of realistic terrain to fly through, different airports to land at. Chuck Yeager's: This is my favorite. Works in color, gives you several different aircraft (about a dozen, everything from a Spad to an SR-71) to fly. No dogfighting, but several different exercises. Terrain is pretty boring. But the simulation is great! P-51: The P-51 is legendary for being difficult to fly, and the simulation captures this very well. I spent several hours just trying to learn how to take off without crashing. Hope this helps.... -- Mark Bryant via cmhGate - Net 226 fido<=>uucp gateway Col, OH UUCP: ...!osu-cis!n8emr!cmhgate!382!54.1!Mark.Bryant INET: Mark.Bryant@p1.f54.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG
gilbert@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Mike Gilbert) (02/15/90)
In article <2104@tellab5.TELLABS.COM> wiseman@tellab5.UUCP (Jeff Wiseman) writes: >I have flown Microsoft's FS but I personally prefer CY. One thing that I forgot >to mention in my earlier posting. For all you would - be radio control pilots, >one thing that is fun with CY is to set the view to Tower and then watch the >3-D plane fly around it while you control it. This is not easy with an F-18 >flying at 1.2Mach... >-- Yes, this is DEFINITELY one of the best features of AFT. I've never actually flown RC, but I really enjoy doing this. Great to be able to zoom in on the plane if it's far out, and you're in a little trouble, is sometimes it's hard to pick up the orientation of the plane from a distance (which way IS that pixel headed, anyway? :) ). My only real qualm about AFT (it's been mentioned before) is that it doesn't take care of the people who would like to do "real world" flying. Hopefully SubLogic/Microsoft will fix that for us Mac II owners... >Jeff Wiseman: ....uunet!tellab5!wiseman OR wiseman@TELLABS.COM =============================================================================== | _ _ _ | Better the pride that resides, | | ' ) ) ) / | In a citizen of the world, | | / / / o /_ _ | Than the pride that divides, | | / ' (_<_/ <_</_ | When a colourful rag is unfurled | | gilbert@eniac.seas.upenn.edu | --- Neil Peart | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | CZECHOSLOVAKIA CHIEFS --- I.G.B.A. Champions 1985 1986-Tourney 1987 1988 | ===============================================================================
mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) (02/15/90)
In article <214@brain.UUCP> root@brain.UUCP (Chuck Shotton) writes: > > The current version of Chuck Yeager's AFT DOES run on a IIci with no problems >and AMAZING smoothness of the animation. It's a good flight simulator for >beginners, but has little to do with real airplanes. The controls don't behave >correctly when the plane is in strange attitudes, and there's really nothing >much to do except fly around. (No instruments to speak of, nothing to shoot.) What exactly is the current version of AFT? Electronic Arts told me that there was nothing beyond 1.0. Second, I disagree that it has little to do with real airplanes. It behaves fairly realistically in aerobatics, at least in the P-51 (although I can't make the Cessna roll, and I know it's possible (from empirical testing ;-)). I like just flying around; it gets me my flying fix when my airplane is 1573 miles away :-( --Mike
vita@daredevil.crd.ge.com (Mark F Vita) (02/15/90)
In article <20397@netnews.upenn.edu> gilbert@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Mike Gilbert) writes: >In article <2104@tellab5.TELLABS.COM> wiseman@tellab5.UUCP (Jeff Wiseman) writes: >>I have flown Microsoft's FS but I personally prefer CY. One thing that I forgot >>to mention in my earlier posting. For all you would - be radio control pilots, >>one thing that is fun with CY is to set the view to Tower and then watch the >>3-D plane fly around it while you control it. This is not easy with an F-18 >>flying at 1.2Mach... >>-- > >Yes, this is DEFINITELY one of the best features of AFT. I've never >actually flown RC, but I really enjoy doing this. Great to be able >to zoom in on the plane if it's far out, and you're in a little trouble, >is sometimes it's hard to pick up the orientation of the plane from a >distance (which way IS that pixel headed, anyway? :) ). I have the most recent version (2.2) of Falcon for the Mac. One thing I've wondered about is the absence of such an "outside view" feature. A few weeks ago I happened to pick up a copy of Falcon for the PC (I think it was the PC) in a store. On the back of the box was a screen shot showing the plane taking off from an outside point of view! Anyone know why this feature is (apparently) included in the PC version but not in the Mac version? Also, is it true that Falcon supports color on non-Mac machines? Any clues as to why there's no color in the Mac version? I mean, color Macs have been around for almost three years now... Other than the above beefs, I very much enjoy Falcon overall. The F-16 simulation seems very realistic (some might say TOO realistic), and the fight sequences are exciting. Also, the ability to dogfight against another player over AppleTalk or modem is a really nifty feature. -- Mark Vita vita@crd.ge.com General Electric CRD ..!uunet!crd.ge.com!vita Schenectady, NY
cfj@nosun.UUCP (Charlie Johnson) (02/17/90)
I also have Chuck Yeager's AFT. Does anyone else have any problem with toggling the flaps on the jets after landing ?? Whenever I land an F16 or F18, I can never raise the flaps again. I running it on a SE/30 with 5MB ram and a 80MB harddisk. --Charles Johnson Intel Scientific Computers Beaverton, OR cfj@isc.intel.com
sandro@nlm-mcs.arpa (Michael D'Alessandro) (02/17/90)
Thanks to everyone for the their comments on Mac flight simulators. A final question: Sublogic JET: has anyone tried it? In all the personal and public messages I have read noone has mentioned JET. Is it that bad, or has no one tried it? -- Michael D'Alessandro M.D. The National Library of Medicine Lister Hill National Center for Biomedical Communications Educational Technology Branch Internet: sandro@mcs.nlm.nih.gov
mjkobb@mit-amt.MEDIA.MIT.EDU (Michael J Kobb) (02/18/90)
In article <583@intelisc.nosun.UUCP> cfj@intelisc.UUCP (Charlie Johnson) writes: > >I also have Chuck Yeager's AFT. Does anyone else have any problem with >toggling the flaps on the jets after landing ?? Whenever I land an F16 or >F18, I can never raise the flaps again. I running it on a SE/30 with 5MB ram >and a 80MB harddisk. Hi, Just a thought, but I suspect that you may be lowering the flaps at too high an airspeed. If you do, you get a very innocuous "FLAPS JAMMED" message in the text bar in the lower left, but that's about it. I personally find it kinda hard to get the jets to go slow enough after one of my famous "meteor" approaches from 15,000 ft (I usually idle the throttle and loop it; that slows it down :-), but dropping the gear can be done at a higher airspeed than you can lower flaps, and it slows you down some... --Mike Keep 'em flying! EAA Warbirds of America