jsp@key.COM (James Preston) (07/12/89)
MS Word gurus please read: I am a recent convert to the Macintosh world from the MS-DOS world. While in general I like the Mac better, there are few things that, apparently, the MS-DOS Word (no "l") did better. (I have Word 3.01 on the Mac. If the answer to any of my questions below is "Word 4.0 can do it", it will be time to upgrade.) Style sheets. In MS-DOS (or at least on my HP150), a style sheet is a separate file. I could have one style sheet attached to many documents. This meant that I could create twenty documents with a normal paragraph that was first line indented. Then, if I decided that I liked paragraphs that were first line flush with one blank line following, I could make ONE change to the style definition and all twenty documents would reflect the change. It appears to me that in the Mac Word, I will have to go into each of the twenty documents and make the change (or at least open the document, go to "define styles", then open a document with the new definition, and save). Have I missed something? This is especially annoying with margins. In MS-DOS, the margin settings are part of the section definition, which means that I can again change them on all twenty documents with one stroke. On the Mac, margin settings are under the "Page Setup" (or whatever) dialog, and thus don't even seem to be a part of the document's style sheet! I am in the situation right now where I have fifty or so documents (converted from MS-DOS), and I will need to change their margin settings. The thought of getting each document, selecting "Page Setup", then TYPING the new margins for ALL those documents makes me cringe. (Yes, I know I could just wait until I actually need to print one before changing its settings, but I will undoubtedly forget, and proceed to waste time, paper, and aggravation.) Again: Is there an easier way? Another important difference is that, even within one document, MS-DOS Word had style sheet definitions for characters. This meant that I could type my document using Times font and italics for emphasis. I could print it and have a "professional" looking document. If I then wanted to submit it for publication, I could make a few changes to the character style definitions, and get a printout in Courier with the italics replaced by underlining. Once again, I have these many documents converted from MS-DOS with italized words sprinkled all through them. I can find no way to change those words to normal font with underlining except to manually look through the entire document! This is user-friendly?? --James Preston
jordan@Morgan.COM (Jordan Hayes) (07/14/89)
James Preston <jsp@penguin.key.COM> writes:
MS-DOS Word had style sheet definitions for characters.
You need to make sure the font gets saved when you define the style for
this to work on a Mac. Select the paragraph marker and then format it
using the Character menu, then save the style ... notice that in the
definition of the style at the bottom it mentions the font ...
Also, about global styles, you can save your favorites into the system
style file, but I forget how.
/jordanlevin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) (07/14/89)
In article <307@zooks.Morgan.COM> jordan@Morgan.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes: |James Preston <jsp@penguin.key.COM> writes: | | MS-DOS Word had style sheet definitions for characters. | |You need to make sure the font gets saved when you define the style for |this to work on a Mac. Select the paragraph marker and then format it |using the Character menu, then save the style ... notice that in the |definition of the style at the bottom it mentions the font ... What I think he meant was a style which applies to character sequences, not just paragraphs-as-wholes. I.e. define a style called Emphasis (equal say to "+bold") and apply it to a selected few phrases in the document. Redefine the style to be say "+italic" and the chosen phrases would have their "boldness" toggled back to the paragraph's style and their "italicness" toggled to the opposite of the paragraph's style; the style of the paragraph itself and the remainder of the text in the paragraph would otherwise be unaffected. (I have no idea of whether DOS Word works like this; this is how I think Mac Word should work.) |Also, about global styles, you can save your favorites into the system |style file, but I forget how. Hit the Set Default button in the Define Styles dialog box. It will save the style into the current Settings file ("Word Settings" in the Word application folder or the System folder is what gets chosen when you start up Word). /JBL UUCP: levin@bbn.com (new) or {backbone}!bbn!levin (old) INTERNET: levin@bbn.com POTS: (617) 873-3463 "The night was"
davidl@intelob.intel.com (David Levine) (07/14/89)
Sorry, but as far as I know the problems you mention (that a style
sheet is an integral part of a document and that a style applies to
the entire paragraph) are just weaknesses of MS-Word for the Mac, and
there is no workaround that I know of. Too bad!
David D. Levine BBBBBBBBB IIII IIII NNN NNNN TM
Senior Technical Writer BBBB BBBB iiii iiii NNNN NNNN
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ARPA: <@iwarp.intel.com:davidl@intelob.intel.com>jsp@key.COM (James Preston) (07/15/89)
In article <42744@bbn.COM> levin@BBN.COM (Joel B Levin) writes: }What I think he meant was a style which applies to character }sequences, not just paragraphs-as-wholes. I.e. define a style called }Emphasis (equal say to "+bold") and apply it to a selected few phrases }in the document. Redefine the style to be say "+italic" and the }chosen phrases would have their "boldness" toggled back to the }paragraph's style and their "italicness" toggled to the opposite of }the paragraph's style; the style of the paragraph itself and the }remainder of the text in the paragraph would otherwise be unaffected. }(I have no idea of whether DOS Word works like this; this is how I }think Mac Word should work.) Yes, that is exactly what I meant, and it is how DOS Word works. I received a very nice email from Paul Davis, Program Manager for Word on the Mac (wow, I never expected to get personal attention direct from the source!). He said that they thought that character styles were a "high-end feature" that would be rarely used, but that they might have to re-think that. }|Also, about global styles, you can save your favorites into the system }|style file, but I forget how. } }Hit the Set Default button in the Define Styles dialog box. It will }save the style into the current Settings file ("Word Settings" in the }Word application folder or the System folder is what gets chosen when }you start up Word). Yes, I knew this but it only applies to documents that you create thereafter. My problem is that I have a bunch of existing documents. Changing the defaults does not change the existing settings in those documents. Unfortunately, the answer that I have gotten from Paul as well as other Word gurus is that I'm SOL. --James Preston
cleeland@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Chris Cleeland) (07/15/89)
In article <307@zooks.Morgan.COM> jordan@Morgan.COM (Jordan Hayes) writes: >James Preston <jsp@penguin.key.COM> writes: > > MS-DOS Word had style sheet definitions for characters. > >You need to make sure the font gets saved when you define the style for >this to work on a Mac. Select the paragraph marker and then format it >using the Character menu, then save the style ... notice that in the >definition of the style at the bottom it mentions the font ... > While this is true, this is not what James is talking about. In DOS Word, a style may be applyed to an arbitrary number of characters within a paragraph, while the paragraph retains its overall style. In Mac Word, only an entire paragraph can be assigned a style. Since I've never use DOS Word much, I don't find this to be a deficiency, just a wish (sure would be nice!). But, I can understand the chagrin of Mr. Preston upon finding out that Word DOESN'T support that feature in the Mac version. Microsoft, I like your product very much, have been using it since v1.0, but it really would be nice if things would be supported across the machines. >Also, about global styles, you can save your favorites into the system >style file, but I forget how. This is done by clicking the DEFAULT button in the Define Styles dialog box (or is it a window...it's hard to keep track with MWord :-) ). If later you want to remove it from the Default Style sheet, select the name of the style in the Define Styles window, then choose Cut from the Edit menu. Word will pop up a dialog box asking you if the syle should be deleted from the document. Next it will ask if it should be removed from the default style sheet. > >/jordan Hope this clarified things a little -- Thanks Chris Cleeland, Tulane University ADDRESS: cleeland@rex.tulane.cs.edu Disclaimer: "I'm a student -- I can't afford to buy one!"
teener@apple.com (Michael Teener) (07/16/89)
In article <942@key.COM> jsp@key.COM (James Preston) writes: > Yes, I knew this but it only applies to documents that you create thereafter. > My problem is that I have a bunch of existing documents. Changing the > defaults does not change the existing settings in those documents. > Unfortunately, the answer that I have gotten from Paul as well as other > Word gurus is that I'm SOL. You might try this: if you have a document with the new default styles in use, you can copy those styles into the old document by 1) open the old document, 2) bring up the "define styles" dialog, 3) select "open ..." from the file menu, and 4) select the new document with the new styles. I am not sure if this merges the styles or replaces all old styles (all my docs have the same styles), but at least this allows me to update old docs with the new styles. Is this what you wanted?? ---- Michael Teener -- 408-974-3521 -------------------- ---- Internet teener@apple.com, AppleLink TEENER1 ------- ---- Apple may know my opinions, but probably does not endorse them --------------------------------------------------------- Transportation by Cheetah N9900U, a loyal beast for the past 5 years.
rudolph@m.cs.uiuc.edu (07/16/89)
/* Written 3:30 pm Jul 14, 1989 by jsp@key.COM in m.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.sys.mac */ Yes, that is exactly what I meant, and it is how DOS Word works. I received a very nice email from Paul Davis, Program Manager for Word on the Mac (wow, I never expected to get personal attention direct from the source!). He said that they thought that character styles were a "high-end feature" that would be rarely used, but that they might have to re-think that. /* End of text from m.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.sys.mac */ I just want to give Paul Davis another vote to consider adding character styles to Word. Yes, they may be a "high-end feature," but I thought Word was supposed to be a high-end word processor. I certainly have wished they were available many times, and I never even used Word on a PC. While I (maybe) have Microsoft's ear, I've been having a problem with 4.0 which I'm wondering if anyone else has seen. The widow control doesn't always seem to work. I often have pages now which start with the last line of a paragraph. This only seems to occur in relation to the absolute positioning feature. If I position a figure on the bottom of one page, the following page sometimes has an orphan line, and if I position a figure at the top of a page, that page sometimes has one right below the figure. Any ideas? David Rudolph rudolph@m.cs.uiuc.edu University of Illinois
cleeland@rex.cs.tulane.edu (Chris Cleeland) (07/17/89)
Count this as a vote for character styles in MS-Word for the Mac. God knows that I've wanted it many times, and it hasn't been available. Word is an invaluable tool, but even good things can always be made better. Just my $.02... -- Thanks Chris Cleeland, Tulane University ADDRESS: cleeland@rex.tulane.cs.edu Disclaimer: "I'm a student -- I can't afford to buy one!"
myers@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Franklin Myers) (02/28/90)
Can anyone tell me why: Sometimes when I type underscores across a page, I get dashes when I print out on the LaserWriter? When using an HP DeskWriter and I press command-period to cancel the print, it won't print again unless: I switch the chooser to ImageWriter, print out a black page and switch back to DeskWriter? Thanks for any help (clues), Frank P.S. Please e-mail me replies to myers@eniac.seas.upenn.edu