markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) (02/16/90)
I don't wish to add to the current flame ware on the relative use of Crippleware or Demmoware. However, I ask the authors of this software to please consider what form the documentation is processed in. The current version of MacPassword came with the main documentation using a font size I don't have, making it very hard to read. Several other documents (including the order form) were created by an application whos files I haven't figured out how to read at all. If at all possible send out any files in either MacWrite or MacPaint format. Use only fonts supplied with the system or at least restrict your documents to shareware fonts. And please, please, specify which applications, font types, and sizes are required to read your documentation. As to the current controversy on posting demonstration or crippled software on usenet, I support the comp.bianries.mac.demo camp. I don't mind this software being posted and probably would have tried to use MacPassword had I been able to read the accompanying documentation. However, I hope that there isn't other software waiting in queue. I don't believe that the moderator for comp.binaries.mac has been heard from. What is the current policy? Mark Nettleingham !att!probe!markn
long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Richard C. Long) (02/16/90)
In article <7257@ll1a.att.com>, markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) writes... >[about fonts, font sizes, and format in shareware documentation] >[he asks that it be in Macwrite/paint format with common fonts] I agree, and would also like to add my own wish. Please restrict the WIDTH of the documentation. I use an SE, and many, many shareware documentation files that I receive have been clearly formatted on a wide-screen machine. This is an annoyance when the file is text only, but becomes rapidly impossible to deal with when the doc. contains tables, as the formatting gets messed up when I chop the width down. Please keep the width to 6 inches. Remember also that documents format differently for the Laserwriter and Imagewriter. It would probably be best to always format shareware documents for the Imagewriter. Thanks for listening, ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /'') /'~ / | long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com | Ramparts are parts of a /''\ /,, /,, | ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long | ram. People used to Richard C. Long | long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com | watch o'er them.
peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) (02/17/90)
In article <7257@ll1a.att.com> markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) writes: > > I don't wish to add to the current flame ware on the >relative use of Crippleware or Demmoware. However, I ask the >authors of this software to please consider what form the >documentation is processed in. The current version of MacPassword >came with the main documentation using a font size I don't have, >making it very hard to read. Several other documents (including the >order form) were created by an application whos files I haven't >figured out how to read at all. > > If at all possible send out any files in either MacWrite or >MacPaint format. Use only fonts supplied with the system or at >least restrict your documents to shareware fonts. And please, >please, specify which applications, font types, and sizes are >required to read your documentation. I agree with this 100%. Of course, if someone does want to have some fancy font displayed somewhere, the safest way to handle it is to paste the fancy text into MacPaint (or whatever) and generate a bitmap. Then put the bitmap into your dialog or documentation. Claris Corp. | Michael R. Peirce -------------+-------------------------------------- | 5201 Patrick Henry Drive MS-C4 | Box 58168 | Santa Clara, CA 95051-8168 | (408) 987-7319 | AppleLink: peirce1 | Internet: peirce@claris.com | uucp: {ames,decwrl,apple,sun}!claris!peirce
ebert@arisia.Xerox.COM (Robert Ebert) (02/17/90)
In article <10883@claris.com> peirce@claris.com (Michael Peirce) writes: >In article <7257@ll1a.att.com> markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) writes: >> >> If at all possible send out any files in either MacWrite or >>MacPaint format. Use only fonts supplied with the system or at >>least restrict your documents to shareware fonts. And please, >>please, specify which applications, font types, and sizes are >>required to read your documentation. > >I agree with this 100%. Of course, if someone does want to have some >fancy font displayed somewhere, the safest way to handle it is to paste >the fancy text into MacPaint (or whatever) and generate a bitmap. Then >put the bitmap into your dialog or documentation. > Of course Mike agrees, he works for Claris, who makes MacWrite and MacPaint. Apple stopped distributing MacWrite and MacPaint with new Macintoshes a couple of years ago. I've owned a Mac II and an SE/30 and I *still* don't own MacWrite. (I use Word) If there is to be a standard for documentation, please, PLEASE let it be TeachText, which is distributed (free) by Apple and hence guaranteed to be owned by everyone. If you can't do that, standardize on plain text. I think everyone owns at least one DA or editor that can handle text files. Hypercard stacks are fine too, since everyone gets Hypercard now. Of course, I really hate Hypercard documentation since it always takes me a while to figure out the how the documentation writer intended HyperCard to be used. (Sure, Apple, promise us consistency and then give us the greatest inconsistency-generating tool since computers were invented!) Anyway, flame off. --Bob
gbrown@tybalt.caltech.edu (Glenn C. Brown) (02/17/90)
markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) writes: > If at all possible send out any files in either MacWrite or >MacPaint format. Use only fonts supplied with the system or at >least restrict your documents to shareware fonts. And please, >please, specify which applications, font types, and sizes are >required to read your documentation. Actually TeachText documents would be even better. TeachText comes free with all Macs. The only problem here is graphics. If you are a benevolent programmer, and publish your docs in teachtext, you will be limited to one font, but YOU CAN INCLUDE GRAPHICS. Here's How (If you wrote a program, this should be trivial.): Put an OPTION-SPACE (Nonbreaking Space) at each location you want a picture. Save the document. Go into ResEdit and Paste in your pictures in PICT format starting at ResID = 1000. Now, when you run TeachText again, It will automatically insert the PICT resources in place of the Option-Space's. Now you have documentation, with graphics that ANY MAC USER CAN READ! --GBrown resource
jamespa@csuf3b.CSUFresno.EDU (James Paul) (02/17/90)
In article <7257@ll1a.att.com> markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) writes: > ...deletions > If at all possible send out any files in either MacWrite or >MacPaint format. Use only fonts supplied with the system or at >least restrict your documents to shareware fonts. And please, >please, specify which applications, font types, and sizes are >required to read your documentation. > ...deletions > Mark Nettleingham > !att!probe!markn I suggest _not_ using MacWrite or MacPaint format. The idea is to use a format that _everyone_ can read. Many people do not use MacWrite or MacPaint, and cannot open these documents. (Yes, I know some other applications can read these formats as well, but not everyone has them, either.) So, use Teachtext. That's what it's for. That's why everyone has it. Many authors already do this. It's simple. It's easy. It's free. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP:jamespa@csuf3b.CSUFresno.EDU Compuserve:72767,3436 GEnie:J.PAUL Packet:N6SIW@K6RAU AppleLink:D1231 America Online:JLPaul
drc@claris.com (Dennis Cohen) (02/17/90)
ebert@arisia.Xerox.COM (Robert Ebert) writes: >Of course Mike agrees, he works for Claris, who makes MacWrite and >MacPaint. Apple stopped distributing MacWrite and MacPaint with new >Macintoshes a couple of years ago. I've owned a Mac II and an SE/30 >and I *still* don't own MacWrite. (I use Word) If there is to be a >standard for documentation, please, PLEASE let it be TeachText, which >is distributed (free) by Apple and hence guaranteed to be owned by >everyone. If you can't do that, standardize on plain text. I think >everyone owns at least one DA or editor that can handle text files. >Hypercard stacks are fine too, since everyone gets Hypercard now. >Of course, I really hate Hypercard documentation since it always >takes me a while to figure out the how the documentation writer >intended HyperCard to be used. (Sure, Apple, promise us consistency >and then give us the greatest inconsistency-generating tool since >computers were invented!) Anyway, flame off. The first correction that I would like to make to the above is that Claris no longer makes or sells MacWrite, we make and sell MacWrite II which is a completely different package from the ground (file-format) up. The point about MacWrite format is that every word-processor for the Mac reads that format and it has been the "lingua franca" for documentation on the Mac from the beginning. TeachText will not work for people who are still running System 3.2 (you know, those folks with 512K old-ROM machines or with 512Ke machines that want to have enough RAM left to run an application) the original MacWrite format fulfills that need. Hypercard is well and good for the people with Pluses and better as well, but I personally don't keep it on any of my Systems because it takes up a lot of disk space and I don't use it (unless I need it to read a documentation stack that someone gives me). Plain text is fine, if graphics aren't needed; but there is no lower-common- denominator for mixed text/graphic documentation than the original MacWrite format. Dennis Cohen Claris Corp. drc@claris.com **************************************************** Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed above are _MINE_! ****************************************************
aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Alan D Danziger) (02/18/90)
In article <10884@claris.com> drc@claris.com (Dennis Cohen) writes: >The first correction that I would like to make to the above is that Claris >no longer makes or sells MacWrite, we make and sell MacWrite II which is >a completely different package from the ground (file-format) up. The >point about MacWrite format is that every word-processor for the Mac >reads that format and it has been the "lingua franca" for documentation >on the Mac from the beginning. > >Plain text is fine, if graphics aren't needed; but there is no lower-common- >denominator for mixed text/graphic documentation than the original MacWrite >format. > I agree on the basic point, that just about ANYTHING will read MacWrite format. The problem here is that people don't realize that the file is in MW, especially if they don't have MW on their drive. Sure, experienced users can use some utility to check the filetype and see "Type=WORD Creator=MACA" and know it's a MacWrite document. But otherwise, you have to use trial and error. How many people will try to open it, and get an "Application busy or missing" error? There's a program out (with source in Think C) which will switch-launch MWII when you double-click on an MW document, and I edited it to launch MS Word instead. If anyone wants it, send me mail and I will BinHex it and post it to comp.binaries.mac. Just ask! -- -=Alan=- aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu
macduff@cbnewse.ATT.COM (Roger R. Espinosa) (02/18/90)
In article <8405@shlump.nac.dec.com>, long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com (Richard C. Long) writes: > > In article <7257@ll1a.att.com>, markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) writes... > >[about fonts, font sizes, and format in shareware documentation] > >[he asks that it be in Macwrite/paint format with common fonts] Oops. The Summary isn't meant to imply that I think this issue of unfamiliar fonts, etc. is silly. I've been in the situation, too, and it is annoying. So far it hasn't been a problem, although even when I open Apple documents from apple.com, I get a "font #13 (I think) not installed." I don't *know* what font #13 (I thought it was the symbol font, but I don't think so...), so I don't even know what font I'm missing. What *I* do when I ship letters/on/disks to my friends who have Macs is to use Font DA/Mover and put the fonts I've used in the letter in the letter file itself, so that when they open up the document, they can see it in its original font. It's a bit of extra work, I know, but when I format my letter to use Garamond-3, and I know for darn sure that my friends don't have Garamond-3 on their systems, it's not that big a deal. > > > Thanks for listening, ibid. Roger rre@ihlpn.ATT.COM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > /'') /'~ / | long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com | Ramparts are parts of a > /''\ /,, /,, | ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long | ram. People used to > Richard C. Long | long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com | watch o'er them.
jamespa@csuf3b.CSUFresno.EDU (James Paul) (02/18/90)
In article <13135@cbnewse.ATT.COM> macduff@cbnewse.ATT.COM (Roger R. Espinosa) writes: ...deletions... >What *I* do when I ship letters/on/disks to my friends who have Macs is >to use Font DA/Mover and put the fonts I've used in the letter in the >letter file itself, so that when they open up the document, they can see it >in its original font. It's a bit of extra work, I know, but when I format >my letter to use Garamond-3, and I know for darn sure that my friends don't >have Garamond-3 on their systems, it's not that big a deal. > >Roger >rre@ihlpn.ATT.COM >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> /'') /'~ / | long@mcntsh.enet.dec.com | Ramparts are parts of a >> /''\ /,, /,, | ...!decwrl!mcntsh.enet.dec.com!long | ram. People used to >> Richard C. Long | long%mcntsh.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com | watch o'er them. Fine, as long as you have the rights to distribute the fonts you include. Many fonts are sold as commercial products. Before you give that font to another person, be sure you know the source of the font. If you don't have distribution rights to it, don't pirate it. (This is more of a problem with postscript fonts nowadays than screen fonts.) -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- UUCP:jamespa@csuf3b.CSUFresno.EDU Compuserve:72767,3436 GEnie:J.PAUL Packet:N6SIW@K6RAU AppleLink:D1231 America Online:JLPaul
edgar@shape.mps.ohio-state.edu (Gerald Edgar) (02/18/90)
In article <10884@claris.com> drc@claris.com (Dennis Cohen) writes: >TeachText will not work for people who are still running System 3.2 (you >know, those folks with 512K old-ROM machines or with 512Ke machines that >want to have enough RAM left to run an application) the original MacWrite >format fulfills that need. I think there is a problem with saying "MacWrite format". MacWrite II can save documents in "MacWrite 5.0" format, but when I gave such a document to my colleague (with a 512 Mac, running MacWrite 4.5), his machine bombed when he tried to open it. I assumed it was the difference between MacWrite 4.5 and MacWrite 5.0 formats ??? -- Gerald A. Edgar Department of Mathematics Bitnet: EDGAR@OHSTPY The Ohio State University Internet: edgar@mps.ohio-state.edu Columbus, OH 43210 ...!{att,pyramid}!osu-cis!shape.mps.ohio-state.edu!edgar
ALE101@psuvm.psu.edu (Allen Edmiston) (02/19/90)
i think everyon is overlooking one other way of saving your docs... why not
use a program such a DOCtor, you can save your documents in the form of an
application and not have to worry about people not having macwrite or msword.
personally, i'd rather see all docs sent in text format.
Allenhankin@sauron.osf.org (Scott Hankin) (02/21/90)
There's another problem with MacWrite format. I have a document which
was written with MacWrite and when MacWrite II tries to convert it, it
goes into some endless loop, and I have to reboot to escape. I've
called Claris several times to tell them of this problem, even offered
to send them the file on floppy, but they've never returned my calls,
so I assume they aren't interested. (Isn't customer support wonderful?)
So writing things out in MacWrite format isn't a sure win, even if the
application is supposed to be able to read it in. I agree with the
TeachText approach.
- Scott
------------------------------
Scott Hankin (hankin@osf.org)
Open Software Foundationaland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (Alan D Danziger) (02/21/90)
In article <3893@paperboy.OSF.ORG> hankin@sauron.osf.org (Scott Hankin) writes: > > There's another problem with MacWrite format. I have a document which > was written with MacWrite and when MacWrite II tries to convert it, it > goes into some endless loop, and I have to reboot to escape. [...] > >- Scott > >------------------------------ >Scott Hankin (hankin@osf.org) >Open Software Foundation I've run into this problem with Macwrite documents often, as I am 'disk repair consultant' for the Macintosh at my university. One thing that sometimes works (and is definitely worth trying) is to open it with MS Word, which is more lenient. Then you can open the Word file with MWII, if you want to. If you don't have Word, there is a shareware DA called 'Quill' which I have used which reads MW files and text files... Or try some other utility. Scott, if you need to see what's in the file, if you send it to me I'll work on it for you... -- -=Alan=- aland@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu
chou@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Pai Chou) (02/25/90)
In article <1990Feb17.084018.20541@csuf3b.CSUFresno.EDU> jamespa@csuf3b.UUCP (James Paul) writes: >In article <7257@ll1a.att.com> markn@ll1a.att.com (Mark Nettleingham) writes: >... >So, use Teachtext. That's what it's for. That's why everyone has it. >Many authors already do this. It's simple. It's easy. It's free. > How do you create a read-only document in teach text, with pictures & different fonts? Pai
CAH0@bunny.gte.com (Chuck Hoffman) (02/28/90)
In article <22391@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> chou@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Pai Chou) writes: > How do you create a read-only document in teach text, with > pictures & different fonts? > 1. To create read only text (with the newspaper icon) change the type from TEXT to ttro (lower case). I use ResEdit to do this a lot. 2. I don't know about pictures and fonts. - Chuck Hoffman, GTE Laboratories, Inc. cah0@bunny.gte.com Telephone (U.S.A.) 617-466-2131 GTE VoiceNet: 679-2131 GTE Telemail: C.HOFFMAN
brecher@well.sf.ca.us (Steve Brecher) (03/03/90)
In article <8632@bunny.GTE.COM>, CAH0@bunny.gte.com (Chuck Hoffman) writes: > In article <22391@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> chou@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Pai Chou) > writes: > > How do you create a read-only document in teach text, with > > pictures & different fonts? > > > 1. To create read only text (with the newspaper icon) change the type > from TEXT to ttro (lower case). I use ResEdit to do this a lot. > 2. I don't know about pictures and fonts. Pictures are obtained from PICT resources in the document. Each instance of an Option-space character is replaced by a PICT, where the PICTs have resource IDs numbered from 1000 up. Thus the first Option-space in the text specified where PICT 1000 is to be displayed, the second where PICT 1001 is to be displayed, etc. TeachText always uses the application font. -- brecher@well.sf.ca.us (Steve Brecher)
phssra@mathcs.emory.edu (Scott R. Anderson) (03/03/90)
In article <10884@claris.com> drc@claris.com (Dennis Cohen) writes: >ebert@arisia.Xerox.COM (Robert Ebert) writes: >>Apple stopped distributing MacWrite and MacPaint with new >>Macintoshes a couple of years ago. > >The first correction that I would like to make to the above is that Claris >no longer makes or sells MacWrite, we make and sell MacWrite II which is >a completely different package from the ground (file-format) up. The >point about MacWrite format is that every word-processor for the Mac >reads that format and it has been the "lingua franca" for documentation >on the Mac from the beginning. > >TeachText will not work for people who are still running System 3.2 (you >know, those folks with 512K old-ROM machines or with 512Ke machines that >want to have enough RAM left to run an application) the original MacWrite >format fulfills that need. Well, then, I have a suggestion, since Claris no longer makes or sells MacWrite: release it into the public domain. Then it can continue to be the Lingua Franca of the Macintosh, and if people need more power, they can buy more powerful word processors like MacWrite II or Word. As time marches on, the original MacWrite becomes less and less of a threat to these feature-full applications, so why not make it available again? Otherwise, "MacWrite Format" will cease to have any meaning to Mac users. I always thought that Apple made a big mistake when they stopped distributing MacWrite. A year later they saw the error of their ways and introduced TeachText, but the latter is not quite flexible enough. Paste PICTS with ResEdit? So much for the famous Macintosh human interface! Documenters are human, too, you know :-). * * ** Scott Robert Anderson gatech!emoryu1!phssra * * * ** phssra@unix.cc.emory.edu phssra@emoryu1.bitnet * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *