mg5184@mars.njit.edu (Michael Gaines) (03/01/90)
Hi, guys. I need some help. I want to buy a Mac within the next two weeks or so. I am torn between the Plus and the SE only because I can't seem to get a straight answer to what the differences are. It SEEMS that you can run anything on a + that you can on an SE (of course II programs are out). All I can see is that you can use the extended keyboard on an SE. I'm not getting an SE/30 'cause I need the money for a 30Meg Hard Drive. Thanx in advance! Mike ==================================================================== | "Please don't be compelled to tell | | | me the story of the boy who cried | mg5184@mars.njit.edu | | Worf." | | ====================================================================
morris@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (03/02/90)
The main differences are: SE has 256K roms, Plus has 128K, differences are in updated ROM information, that the plus has to keep patches in memory. SE has faster SCSI port, resulting in much better SCSI transfer. SE has a built in fan, which is very important. You can get internal HD for the SE, which will save you $$$ and be generally better (no separate power supply to break down) SE has a slot, for whatever it is worth. In total, SE seems to perform about 30% faster. If you don't care about speed at all, the Plus is functionally equivalent
gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu (03/03/90)
Here are some of the advantages of the SE. 1) SE now has 1.4Mb floppy drive This is GREAT for backing up your hard disk. You don't have to feed the stupid thing disks so often. MEI Micro order center in Ohio is selling HD disks (generic) for 89 cents each. 2) SE's CPU is 10-20% faster I believe this is because of the dual-ported video ram, and the fact that the CPU does't need to baby the display. This is not a big deal. 3) SE disk is 1:2 interleave, MacPlus is 1:3 interleave In most situations, you will see faster disk throughput on the SE. This is important, since launching a program and saving a file are big time-sinks on the low-end machines. 4) SE's mouse / keyboard is nicer The new ADB mice & keyboards are nicer. The MacPlus mouse is harder to position. The MacPlus keyboard lacks a Control key. This is a pain in telecom programs.
ferrie@mcgill-vision.uucp (Frank Ferrie) (03/03/90)
In article <126900190@p.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >Here are some of the advantages of the SE. > >1) SE now has 1.4Mb floppy drive > This is GREAT for backing up your hard disk. You don't have to > feed the stupid thing disks so often. MEI Micro order center > in Ohio is selling HD disks (generic) for 89 cents each. > >2) SE's CPU is 10-20% faster > I believe this is because of the dual-ported video ram, and > the fact that the CPU does't need to baby the display. This > is not a big deal. > >3) SE disk is 1:2 interleave, MacPlus is 1:3 interleave > In most situations, you will see faster disk throughput on the SE. > This is important, since launching a program and saving a file > are big time-sinks on the low-end machines. > >4) SE's mouse / keyboard is nicer > The new ADB mice & keyboards are nicer. The MacPlus mouse is harder > to position. The MacPlus keyboard lacks a Control key. This is a > pain in telecom programs. The 1.4Mb floppy and ADB peripherals are nice, but are they worth the price difference? The slight increase in SE speed really doesn't make much difference (as stated). As far as SCSI transfer rates are concerned, software patches to the Mac+ driver (e.g. SCSI accelerator) appear to make it MUCH faster than the SE. For example, if I believe SCSI evaluator, my Seagate 296N is running at about 2.5Mb/sec. As far as I know, you can't patch the SE 'cause the functions are performed in hardware (one of the ironies of technological change :-)). Another argument people often make in favor of the SE is its expansion slot. By all means, if you plan to upgrade, it might make a difference. However, why not avoid the rush and buy an SE/30 to begin with? IMHO, at about $1000 (or less), the Mac+ is definitely a better buy. Sure, it may be a dead end, but so are all the other 68000 Macs. But there are a lot of us out there who are still quite satisfied with what we can do with a ``low end'' machine. -FF ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- F.P. Ferrie tel. 514-398-6042 McGill Research Center for Intelligent Machines McGill University Montreal, CANADA Inet: ferrie@moe.mcrcim.mcgill.edu ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
wsinkees@lso.win.tue.nl (Kees Huizing) (03/05/90)
mg5184@mars.njit.edu (Michael Gaines) writes: > I need some help. I want to buy a Mac within the next two weeks or >so. I am torn between the Plus and the SE only because I can't seem to get >a straight answer to what the differences are. It SEEMS that you can run >anything on a + that you can on an SE (of course II programs are out). All >I can see is that you can use the extended keyboard on an SE. I'm not >getting an SE/30 'cause I need the money for a 30Meg Hard Drive. A couple of months ago I asked about the same question. Here is my opinion. I mailed all the responses I got to the author of the question. The advantages of the SE are (in arbitrary order): - ADB (standard) interface for keyboard and mouse. Most of the interesting alternatives you might want for your input devices are available for the Plus too, however. - Nicer keyboard, esthetically, mechanically and functionally. The Plus echoes a bit when you hit the keys vitally. What I like, however, is that it's small. It fits between the arms of an arm-chair. For about $250 you can get a "doctored" SE keyboard that works with a Plus. - Quicker. The same CPU is used with the same clock speed (MC68000 at ~8MHz), but the screen drawing routines are better, the SCSI port is faster (check this, I am not sure), etc. The difference doesn't seem that much (5-15%) in practice. If you buy a fast hard disk and a Plus, you are probably as fast as an SE with the an in-built hard disk from Apple. - Internal hard disk possible. Convenient and compact. Here in Holland is a shop that builds a hard disk (and a fan) in a Plus for about $600. Some people discourage this. I have no experience. - FDHD (super drive). Lets you read and write MS-DOS floppies and 1.44Mbyte flops. The Plus lacks the SWIM chip to connect a superdrive. Alternatives exist, however. - Free extension slot, e.g., for a video card to connect a big monitor. - Less obselete. Some say the Plus is "dead". Nevertheless, it has the largest users group and virtually anything that runs on a SE will run on a Plus. This might change in future, but beware, the SE is not that vital either... ************************************************************************* I decided to buy a Plus. Here in Holland the price different is large (about $1500) and I didn't forsee to use the expansion slot in some years. (If you hardly have the money for an SE, what are you going to use the slot for: a two-page monitor?) If the only thing you are afraid of is obsolence, and you need a computer *now*, I would advise to buy a Plus (do your own calculation for your local prices, however). If the day comes that you really have to worry about programs that you can't run on your Plus, you might need the money to buy a new computer. I am sure that it won't be an SE. Kees -- Kees Huizing - Eindhoven Univ of Techn - Dept Math & Comp Sc - The Netherlands DOMAIN: wsinkees@win.tue.nl BITNET: wsdckeesh@heitue5 FAX: +31-40-436685
mg5184@mars.njit.edu (Michael Gaines) (03/06/90)
Kees, I'd like to thank you and all 37 people that wrote letters to me about my question. Now I have one FINAL question before I pick up my Mac on Friday or Saturday: I have seen the ImageWriter as the standard printerin the Mac world. Can someone tell me if my Epson LQ-510 will work with existing software or if it's compatable (some way) with the ImageWriter; OR if there is an Epson driver out there somewhere? Mike ==================================================================== | "Over Macho Grande?" | | | "No, I don't think I'll ever be | mg5184@mars.njit.edu | | over Macho Grande" | | ====================================================================
a544@mindlink.UUCP (Rick McCormack) (03/07/90)
No matter what you settle on, (and I'm happy with the Plus for this year), load the sucker with memory when you buy it. If you think that is wasteful, you are talkin' thru yer hat! The speed increase in work habits with 4 meg or 8 meg if your machine can hold it, will far surpass the meagre gains between the Plus and the SE. In our lab, 16 users on MacJanet, with machines ranging from Pluses to Ci's, the major complaint is:"How come the Pluses are faster?" And the answer is that the Pluses almost all have 4 megs. Multifinder works well, with Word 4, More II, and Superpaint 2.0 all up at once.