svc@well.sf.ca.us (Leonard Rosenthol) (03/16/90)
In article <1990Mar14.041825.18302@Neon.Stanford.EDU> kaufman@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) writes: > [stuff about MPII & Low Level Printing deleted] > >Unfortunately, no one has told me that -- so none of my drivers support low >level printing calls. In fact, TN#192 (Suprises in LaserWriter 5.0 and Newer) >says: "No Mo' Low: Because of the problems supporting both the high-level >interfaces in the background, the low-level interface is all but removed..." >In several Tech Notes (124, 192) Apple specifically recommends AGAINST using >the low level calls. The preview of System 7.x at last year's developer's >conference says "No pass-through (Draft) printing". > Oh believe me, I am well aware of what TN192 says... I have been over that one and others with Apple for a while now - and was not very happy to hear about the 'New Printing Archetecure' where a 'Text Streaming Mode' was not longer going to be possible. >DTS provides a document called "The PrintShop Mystique" to print driver >writers that says: "Low-Level Calls. Low level calls are a different breed >of call, currently being supported only for historical reasons. ...It is >recomended that all new development, both application and driver, avoid >low-level implementations if at all possible." > >Given this, I really can't blame HP for not supporting low-level calls. And >I would have to argue your statement that "most third party drivers support >this interface". > >If low level calls are important, then Apple should have told us so. Maybe >it is MicroPhone that is out of step. > I agree that for 99% of the applications out there, there is no good reason to use 'text streaming' and that the new 'architeture' where everything is page based graphic modal is a good one given that..... HOWEVER - for those of us who write software which must emulate some- thing which is _NOT_ a Macintosh, then there is most certainly a need for this feature. What do I tell my users who ask why they can buy a VT100 dumb terminal which will do the right thing when talking to their host, as will the PC next to them - but you can not do that with a Macintosh....'Sorry Apple fealt that you didn't need to do that....' When a host asks me to print (by sending me a command sequence), it does not know that I am a Macintosh - it only knows that I am a VT100 (for example) and as such it expects me to work exactly like every other VT100 out there. This means that I must STREAM my text to the directly connected printer. Now it is true that doing this to a page based printer makes not sense (like to a LW) but for those people who have IW, and specifially for this function, it MUST do that and do it IN REAL TIME just like the VT100. We also have clients like a Fire House where the data is xmitted over modem to their 'hosted' Mac and the data must arrive IMMEDIATELY on the printer from which it is turn off and taken with on the truck...How do you page print this??? If Apple is so concerned about 'Communications' and 'Connectivity' then here is one area which they missed and needs some serious consideration!! Leonard Rosenthol Software Ventures P.S. I have had this conversation with many different people inside of Apple incl. in DTS, System Software, CTB Development, and, of course, the Print Shop! >Marc Kaufman (kaufman@Neon.stanford.edu) -- +--------------------------------------------------+ Leonard Rosenthol | GEnie : MACgician Lazerware, inc. | MacNet: MACgician UUCP: svc@well.UUCP | ALink : D0025
siegel@endor.harvard.edu (Rich Siegel) (03/17/90)
In article <16701@well.sf.ca.us> svc@well.UUCP (Leonard Rosenthol) writes: >In article <1990Mar14.041825.18302@Neon.Stanford.EDU> kaufman@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) writes: > HOWEVER - for those of us who write software which must emulate some- >thing which is _NOT_ a Macintosh, then there is most certainly a need for this >feature. What do I tell my users who ask why they can buy a VT100 dumb terminal >which will do the right thing when talking to their host, as will the PC next >to them - but you can not do that with a Macintosh....'Sorry Apple fealt that >you didn't need to do that....' > When a host asks me to print (by sending me a command sequence), it >does not know that I am a Macintosh - it only knows that I am a VT100 (for >example) and as such it expects me to work exactly like every other VT100 >out there. This means that I must STREAM my text to the directly connected >printer. Now it is true that doing this to a page based printer makes not So why not spool to a local disk file, and then image the text from that file using the high-level calls? There's no need to pose a dialog; just use the default print settings. R. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rich Siegel Staff Software Developer Symantec Corporation, Language Products Group Internet: siegel@endor.harvard.edu UUCP: ..harvard!endor!siegel "When someone who makes four hundred and fifty dollars an hour wants to tell you something for free, it's a good idea to listen." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
svc@well.sf.ca.us (Leonard Rosenthol) (03/18/90)
In article <2246@husc6.harvard.edu> siegel@endor.UUCP (Rich Siegel) writes: >In article <16701@well.sf.ca.us> svc@well.UUCP (Leonard Rosenthol) writes: >>In article <1990Mar14.041825.18302@Neon.Stanford.EDU> kaufman@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) writes: > >> [my original comments removed for inews] > > So why not spool to a local disk file, and then image the text from >that file using the high-level calls? There's no need to pose a dialog; >just use the default print settings. > That will only solve the problem for some users. As I point out in my original comments, which you chose to leave out of your quote, there are _A NUMBER_ of instances where the data _MUST_ arrive as it is xmitted and if I have to wait for a whole page to be captured (and then imaged) that is most certianly not _IMMEDIATE_. Also, there are situations where you may not get a 'close printer' sequence... Other issues such as do you print every page as the page is complete? or do you wait for all the data and then print the whole document? Spooling is a nice concept for a lot of things, and we will probably investigate it for future products - _BUT_ it does not solve the problem that Apple is dedicated to connectivity and telecommuncations and yet they refused to be concerned about this aspect of it. Great, I can talk to my Vax, but I can not print..... > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Rich Siegel > Staff Software Developer > Symantec Corporation, Language Products Group > Speaking of which, all of the Symantec Language Products use the low level printer calls when doing nonToolbox printing for standard Pascal and C I/O routines...eh Rich?? ;-) -- +--------------------------------------------------+ Leonard Rosenthol | GEnie : MACgician Lazerware, inc. | MacNet: MACgician UUCP: svc@well.UUCP | ALink : D0025
ubi@ginger.sri.com (Ron Ueberschaer x4399) (03/22/90)
VersaTerm (TM) does a fine job of stream printing on an ImageWriter and on a DeskWriter. You choose "Print Stream" and it collects the data on disk a page at a time & prints each page. When you uncheck "Print Stream" it prints out the last fraction of a page, plus a form feed. What's the problem?