sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) (03/22/90)
So I read the article on A/UX 2.0 and I think, great, Apple is
going to let us have an integrated UNIX. They must be targeting small
business, corporations, and other users. Then I read the press
release carefully.
I have 2 main beefs with Apple about A/UX :
1) It is based on OBSOLETE UNIX. It is based on AT&T V.2.2.
Considering they are now at SYS5.3, that is WAY behind.
And what is this about BSD extensions. One vendor (Sun)
already does this, and that makes porting pure BSD
applications to them a bitch.
2) The PRICE. I have here the University price (CAD$) :
A/UX 2.0 Media Only $760
X windows for 2.0 $285 (no mention of version)
Manual kit $668
----
TOTAL $1713
What kind of cost is that ? For $2500 I can get myself an
Apollo DN2500 WITH UNIX (4.3 and SY5.3) AND C/Pascal etc.
Granted, that is diskless, but that is only another $2-3000
For a MAC, I need at least an SE/30 or IInn to run A/UX.
I also need a minimal 80meg drive. Preferably 100-160.
Lets get serious here Apple. A/UX and X and Manuals should cost
no more than $500 for a University. I really want to buy A/UX with X
windows for developing applications. But I can NOT afford the cost of
A/UX, X, Manuals and new hard drive. Nor do I want to learn yet
another version of UNIX (I already know and use BSD4.3).
thanx for listening
maurice
Maurice Sharp MSc. Student
University of Calgary Computer Science Department
2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@ksi.cpsc.UCalgary.CA
Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 ...!alberta!calgary!sharpmbrown@osf.org (Mark Brown) (03/22/90)
In article <2629@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP>, sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: > I have 2 main beefs with Apple about A/UX : > > 1) It is based on OBSOLETE UNIX. It is based on AT&T V.2.2. Funny, GM just settled on 5.2 as a base for all its UNIX vendors. IBM and OSF are using it as a base for their products. All three are making mods for 5.3 SVID, but so is Apple, I hear. Don't seem too obsolete to me... > > 2) The PRICE. I have here the University price (CAD$) : > > A/UX 2.0 Media Only $760 > X windows for 2.0 $285 (no mention of version) > Manual kit $668 > ---- > TOTAL $1713 > > What kind of cost is that ? For $2500 I can get myself an > Apollo DN2500 WITH UNIX (4.3 and SY5.3) AND C/Pascal etc. > Granted, that is diskless, but that is only another $2-3000 Sure. Compare a diskless workstation (with a smaller processor) to a machine (fully expandable) that runs two OSs. Based on current market rates, these prices (while a little high) are well within the realm of 'current market" reality. > Lets get serious here Apple. A/UX and X and Manuals should cost > no more than $500 for a University. I really want to buy A/UX with X > windows for developing applications. But I can NOT afford the cost of Maybe a college student can't afford a full-blown UNIX workstation. Are they supposed to? I remember being pretty broke when I was in school. Mark Brown IBM AWD / OSF | 'Truth' never set anyone free. It is only The Good mbrown@osf.org | *doubt* which will bring mental The Bad uunet!osf!mbrown| emancipation. The Ugly (617) 621-8981 | --Anton LaVey
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (03/23/90)
In article <5363@paperboy.OSF.ORG> mbrown@osf.org (Mark Brown) writes: >In article <2629@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP>, sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca >> 2) The PRICE [of A/UX]. I have here the University price (CAD$) : >> TOTAL $1713 >> What kind of cost is that ? For $2500 I can get myself an >> Apollo DN2500 WITH UNIX (4.3 and SY5.3) AND C/Pascal etc. >Sure. Compare a diskless workstation (with a smaller processor) to a machine >(fully expandable) that runs two OSs. The Apollo can run either UNIX or Aegis; that's two OSs. Maybe not the two you're after, but two. If you get the Version 10 DomainOS, you get your choice of Aegis or UNIX on a per-user basis. The 20MHz(?) 68030 in the DN2500 is the same size as the 16.667MHz 68030 in the Mac IIx, the 25.000MHz 68030 in the Mac IIci, and the 40.000MHz 68030 in the Mac IIfx. Well, the IIfx CPU is probably bigger, I don't think they have 40MHz parts in surface mount yet. You won't get a significantly bigger processor in your machine until you get a 68040 system. :-), of course. >Mark Brown IBM AWD / OSF | 'Truth' never set anyone free. It is only -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Systems Engineering) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy Too much of everything is just enough
mbrown@osf.org (Mark Brown) (03/23/90)
In article <10312@cbmvax.commodore.com>, daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) writes: > In article <5363@paperboy.OSF.ORG> mbrown@osf.org (Mark Brown) writes: > > >Sure. Compare a diskless workstation (with a smaller processor) to a machine > >(fully expandable) that runs two OSs. > > The Apollo can run either UNIX or Aegis; that's two OSs. Maybe not the two > > The 20MHz(?) 68030 in the DN2500 is the same size as the 16.667MHz 68030 in I stand corrected, here. It's still a non-expandable (in the sense that a PC or Mac is) diskless workstation, no? Heck, *I*'m going to have to save up some bux if I want to get it, and I own a II (with PMMU).....but I still think the price is reasonable, maybe the high end of reasonable, but still a fair price. Mark Brown IBM AWD / OSF | 'Truth' never set anyone free. It is only The Good mbrown@osf.org | *doubt* which will bring mental The Bad uunet!osf!mbrown| emancipation. The Ugly (617) 621-8981 | --Anton LaVey
sharp@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) (03/24/90)
Hiya, >> In article <5363@paperboy.OSF.ORG> mbrown@osf.org (Mark Brown) writes: >I stand corrected, here. >It's still a non-expandable (in the sense that a PC or Mac is) diskless >workstation, no? Actually yes it is. SCSI and AT bus on are on it. But it was offered mearly as an example. If you want others, look at the IBM 6000 series. Yes it is a bit more expensive, but it also runs one hell of a lot faster. I must admin, I am an IBM hater from way back, but the 6000 is impresive. My point is that Apple is STILL way overpriced. Others are releasing stuff that is cheaper and more powerful. What is more, with stuff like X, Motif, NeXt step (comes with the 6000) etc, Mac is no longer the only easy to use interface on the block. It is only a matter of time before hoards of programs appear that use the new interface *standards*. I like Mac, but currently, they are pricing themselves out of the market. And there is not need, just scam a look at a developer price list. If they sold for 15-25% over that price, they would be laughing. What they lost in markup they would make up in volume. I ask again, come on Apple, why are you so expensive ? maurice PS I do own a ci, it cost most of my savings, but I like it. Maurice Sharp MSc. Student University of Calgary Computer Science Department 2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@ksi.cpsc.UCalgary.CA Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 ...!alberta!calgary!sharp
mha@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Mark H. Anbinder) (03/27/90)
I think you're expecting too much. If you look at the price of getting A/UX 2.0 alone, it's actually quite reasonable. Consider that unix systems generally don't come with manuals, and the price of getting the manual set, if you feel you must have it, is no longer unreasonable; it's about the same as manuals for other unix implementations. The same with X-windows... that's an add-on almost anywhere you look. As far as manuals go, if you feel you need them, you can do what most colleges do, and get a single set of manuals to be shared among several or many users or systems. If you're not going to be the only person there who'll get A/UX, you can try to convince the school to get a set for public reference purposes. You've got your choice of medium, too... with floppies being the least expensive but least convenient. Getting A/UX on CD-ROM will most likely make the most sense, since rumor has it that you can run with the unchangable portion of the kernel right on the CD, so you'll only need about 20 megs worth of hard disk space (maybe even on a drive you already own) to run the thing. Also, considering you'll be able to access MacOS partitions at the same time, you don't need to worry about having two discrete hard drives in order to make this work. Mr. Brown had a good point... you, as a college student, are trying to end up with a high-powered unix workstation that most businesses and scientific users would consider high-end. While it's a great idea, and I empathize because I tried to keep up with the state of the art when I was in college, I think it's unfair to blame Apple for pricing their high-end products out of reach of a student budget. -- Mark H. Anbinder Memory Alpha BBS 607-257-5822 ** mha@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu BAKA Industries ** ...!batcomputer!memory!mha 200 Pleasant Grove Rd. H: (607) 257-3480 ******** Ithaca, NY 14850 W: (607) 257-2070 ******* "It's not safe out here." Q
baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) (03/28/90)
In article <10312@cbmvax.commodore.com>, daveh@cbmvax (Dave Haynie) writes: >The Apollo can run either UNIX or Aegis; that's two OSs. [ ... ] Uh, I'd say it's more like 1 and a half... -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." baumgart@esquire.dpw.com | cmcl2!esquire!baumgart | - David Letterman
scott@hfserver.hfnet.bt.co.uk (Scott McRae) (03/29/90)
Sorry, but i missed the start of this discussion. Could someone fill me in on the details of A/UX 2.0. ie what UNIX standard does it comply with ? What are the minimum hardware requirements to run it ? Another question (for the sake of an argument :-) ) is: Should Mac users compromise with the idea of open systems and use A/UX with X-windows OR stand firm against a sea of opinions and stick to their Mac roots ie basically ignore X-Windows because the Mac interface is good enough as it is ?? Thanks in advance, Scott. Scott McRae, RT 5521, MLB 2/8, | <This space BTRL, Martlesham Heath, Suffolk. | intentionally Tel : 0473- (wrk) 646739 (home) 711409 | left email : scott@uk.co.bt.axion | blank>