deuchar@topo.UUCP (Gregg Deuchar) (03/20/90)
The A/UX V2.0 press release was quite interesting but a bit short on details.
I have a few questions:
1) Does the new A/UX run ALL Mac programs, or only '32-bit clean' programs?
a) How about Mac Inits, Cdevs and Rdevs?
b) How about MIDI programs, Games, SoftPC, ][ in a Mac?
c) If programs of type (a) or (b) CAN be run, what is their performance like?
2) Is memory protection available for Mac programs, i.e. if the application in
the 'Mac window' crashes, does it dump the entire system or just that window?
3) Are the Mac windows accessing 'real' Finder & System files, or an emulator
hardcoded into A/UX? If not hardcoded, can the MAC OS be upgraded like a
normal system?
4) Will Virtual Memory be available for the Mac programs? How about
multitasking?
5) Can Mac or Unix files be placed on either file system (mixed), or must
each type reside only on it's own specific file system/partition?
6) What terminal emulations are available in the Unix window? In the X-window?
7) Will the Mac version of X-Windows be X11 R4? Will it support color?
Inquiring minds want to know.
[ Gregg Deuchar, LAVC System Manager | GenRad STP (408) 432-1000 ]
[ All opinions expressed are MINE only! | Path: {sun,aeras}!topo!deuchar ] dwb@archer.apple.com (David W. Berry) (03/21/90)
In article <22775@topo.UUCP> deuchar@topo.UUCP (Gregg Deuchar) writes: > >The A/UX V2.0 press release was quite interesting but a bit short on details. >I have a few questions: > >1) Does the new A/UX run ALL Mac programs, or only '32-bit clean' programs? It runs >most< Mac programs. There is a 24-bit compatibility option that allows programs that aren't 32-bit clean to run. Unfortunately there are still some programs that have problems even in 24-bit mode. > a) How about Mac Inits, Cdevs and Rdevs? INIT 31 does get run, meaning that INIT's, cdev's, and rdev's will be executed. Many of them even work. Unfortunately there are still things which can't be done, like direct access to the hardware, which will cause your system to crash if installed in the system folder. These mac-style system crashes don't cause kernel panics or anything nasty like that, they just force the user to log in again. > b) How about MIDI programs, Games, SoftPC, ][ in a Mac? SoftPC 1.3 runs just fine. I haven't tried the others. MIDI programs have a chance of working but I wouldn't give them a real high liklihood since I assme they all go direct to the SCC rather than using the serial manager. > c) If programs of type (a) or (b) CAN be run, what is their performance like? Similar to that under the Mac OS. > >2) Is memory protection available for Mac programs, i.e. if the application in >the 'Mac window' crashes, does it dump the entire system or just that window? You're running multifinder, with all applications (not A/UX programs like cat) sharing much of their address space. Thus it is possible for some application to crash, taking the rest of the environment with it. In the case, the user logs in again. > >3) Are the Mac windows accessing 'real' Finder & System files, or an emulator >hardcoded into A/UX? If not hardcoded, can the MAC OS be upgraded like a >normal system? We currently use a specially modified version of the Finder, System and other system files. Some system files are used completely unmodified, the modifications are mostly the remove lingering 32-bit problems. The MacOS can be upgraded or run separate from the A/UX kernel. > >4) Will Virtual Memory be available for the Mac programs? How about >multitasking? Yes, via the normal A/UX virtual memory scheme. MultiTasking exists on two levels, scheduling between Mac programs is done by the existing MultiFinder scheme. Scheduling between the collection of all mac apps and unix programs (ie., cat) is done using the existing A/UX kernel process scheme. MultiFinder has modifications to take advantage of WaitNextEvent timeout values to sleep in the UNIX kernel instead of busywaiting. > >5) Can Mac or Unix files be placed on either file system (mixed), or must >each type reside only on it's own specific file system/partition? Mac files can be placed on any type of file system. If placed on an A/UX (non mac) file system, they will be actually stored in AppleSingle or AppleDouble format. Unix files can be freely copied to macintosh volumes and vice-versa. > >6) What terminal emulations are available in the Unix window? In the X-window? The CommandShell pretty much emulates a VT100 with extra commands. I don't know about X-Windows, but it is X11R3, whatever that means :-) > >7) Will the Mac version of X-Windows be X11 R4? Will it support color? "MacX incorporates all the stuff to be compliant with X11R4, but the porting base was R3" -- Steve Peters, A/UX X11 Engineer Yes, it does support color. > >Inquiring minds want to know. Proud minds want to tell... David W. Berry A/UX Toolbox Engineer dwb@apple.com
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (03/21/90)
dwb@archer.apple.com (David W. Berry) writes: >> b) How about MIDI programs, Games, SoftPC, ][ in a Mac? > SoftPC 1.3 runs just fine. I haven't tried the others. MIDI > programs have a chance of working but I wouldn't give them > a real high liklihood since I assme they all go direct to the > SCC rather than using the serial manager. A test for this is the Mac Portable. If a MIDI program runs on the Portable, there's a chance it'll run on A/UX 2.0. If not, no luck (right now, I don't think any do. They all play with the hardware directly, which is also why they don't work on the Portable's serial port circuitry). >>5) Can Mac or Unix files be placed on either file system (mixed), or must >>each type reside only on it's own specific file system/partition? > Mac files can be placed on any type of file system. Which is kind of nice. I boot my 2.0 system, which mounts my main mac partition. double-click on Word or A/UX, and they run. Copy files from A/UX to the mac partition with the finder -- no more hfx (yay!). We've actually cloned /usr into a separate partition by copying it across with the finder and then setting up the mount point. I'm *almost* to the point where I could simply run A/UX 2.0 full-time and not notice the difference (a few things don't seem to work yet, like Aldus Freehand 2.0. Why? I dunno yet. I also haven't tried MS-Mail 2.0, since I have had enough hassle with it under MacOS). I've had good luck with Word, Excel and Hypercard, for instance. >>Inquiring minds want to know. > Proud minds want to tell... As someone who's going to have to *support* this thing when it's released, Dave has something to be proud of. I liked A/UX 1.1. I'm impressed with A/UX 2.0. (and, yes, I work for the company. So what?) -- Chuq Von Rospach <+> chuq@apple.com <+> [This is myself speaking] All spirits are enslaved which serve things evil -- Shelley
anders@penguin (Anders Wallgren) (03/21/90)
Will it be possible to run MPW and SADE under A/UX? (I suspect the answer is Yes to the former, but I'm not sure about the later) anders
stiv@stat5.rice.edu (david n stivers) (03/21/90)
In article <7305@goofy.Apple.COM> dwb@archer.apple.com (David W. Berry) writes: >In article <22775@topo.UUCP> deuchar@topo.UUCP (Gregg Deuchar) writes: >> >>The A/UX V2.0 press release was quite interesting but a bit short on details. >>I have a few questions: >>7) Will the Mac version of X-Windows be X11 R4? Will it support color? > "MacX incorporates all the stuff to be compliant with X11R4, > but the porting base was R3" -- Steve Peters, A/UX X11 Engineer > Yes, it does support color. Is MacX a standard MacOS program, or will it only run under A/UX? Any ideas about cost? If MaxC will run under regular MacOS, will it run on a +? What are the net connections required? Will it do useful things via an Appletalk net that is connected to an ethernet net? > David W. Berry A/UX Toolbox Engineer > dwb@apple.com david n stivers stiv@rice.edu
dwb@archer.apple.com (David W. Berry) (03/21/90)
In article <11315@zodiac.ADS.COM> anders@penguin (Anders Wallgren) writes: >Will it be possible to run MPW and SADE under A/UX? (I suspect the >answer is Yes to the former, but I'm not sure about the later) MPW 3.0 and MPW 3.1 both run under A/UX (I compile MultiFinder on them on A/UX) with one minor patch to MPW. I haven't tried SADE, but I expect it should run. (I haven't ever managed to make it work under the MacOS, but that's a long story... :-) David W. Berry A/UX Toolbox Engineer dwb@apple.com
dwb@archer.apple.com (David W. Berry) (03/21/90)
In article <5923@brazos.Rice.edu> stiv@stat5.rice.edu (david n stivers) writes: >Is MacX a standard MacOS program, or will it only run under A/UX? >Any ideas about cost? >If MaxC will run under regular MacOS, will it run on a +? >What are the net connections required? >Will it do useful things via an Appletalk net that is connected to >an ethernet net? MacX is a regular MacOS program. It uses the CommToolbox to establish connections and should work fine on anything supported by MacTCP. David W. Berry A/UX Toolbox Engineer dwb@apple.com
dwb@archer.apple.com (David W. Berry) (03/22/90)
In article <7310@goofy.Apple.COM> dwb@archer.apple.com (David W. Berry) writes: >In article <11315@zodiac.ADS.COM> anders@penguin (Anders Wallgren) writes: >>Will it be possible to run MPW and SADE under A/UX? (I suspect the >>answer is Yes to the former, but I'm not sure about the later) > MPW 3.0 and MPW 3.1 both run under A/UX (I compile MultiFinder > on them on A/UX) with one minor patch to MPW. I haven't tried > SADE, but I expect it should run. (I haven't ever managed to > make it work under the MacOS, but that's a long story... :-) OK. I'm getting swamped with mail about "How do I patch MPW" so I guess I'll post the answer. **** The following is neither supported or recommended by the MPW group, the A/UX group, Apple Computer, myself or anybody else that I know of, it just seems to work for me ***** 1. While running A/UX, launch MPW 2. When it appears to be hung, break into the debugger. If the pc is pointing at a "bra.s *" instruction your in luck, go to the next step. If not, continue and break into the debugger again, repeat until you find the "bra.s *". 3. Examine the instructions around the bra.s instruction. You are going to use resedit to change the bra.s, so remember them well. 4. Type "pc=pc+2" to skip over the bra.s instruction. 5. Use resedit to change the "bra.s *" instruction to a "nop". > > David W. Berry A/UX Toolbox Engineer > dwb@apple.com David W. Berry A/UX Toolbox Engineer dwb@apple.com
jordan@Apple.COM (Jordan Mattson) (03/22/90)
Dear David - Sorry to contradict you in public, but MPW 3.0 and 3.1 do not run under A/UX without the special patches that you guys have made. We are working on making MPW and SADE work without a hitch under A/UX. We expect to do that in our next version -- Jordan Mattson UUCP: jordan@apple.apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. CSNET: jordan@apple.CSNET Development Tools Product Management AppleLink: Mattson1 20525 Mariani Avenue, MS 27S Cupertino, CA 95014 408-974-4601 "Joy is the serious business of heaven." C.S. Lewis
rterry@hpcupt1.HP.COM (Ray Terry) (03/22/90)
Does anybody know.?.?. If I want A/UX 2.0, but don't need another disk drive (already have 400 megs worth) and don't have an Apple 40 meg tape drive (I have a Teac 60 meg), can I get 2.0?? Thanks. Ray rterry%hpda@hplabs.hp.com P.S. I don't have a CD-Rom, either...
ech@cbnewsk.ATT.COM (ned.horvath) (03/22/90)
One more, possibly moronic question: among others, A/UX is to be available on CD-ROM. Is that CD-ROM going to include a bootable A/UX partition, i.e. will it be possible to boot off a sash disk, then use the CD-ROM as root? Yes, of course, I'll need things like eschatology and swap on a writable drive. And I suppose it will STILL have to be an Apple drive, or the disk utilities won't be able to help. But most of that hundred-thousand-blocks of A/UX can stay right on the CD-ROM. Near that alternative is to have a minimal writable root, with archival stuff (/lib, /bin, much of /usr) on the CD-ROM. Unless A/UX has grown a WHOLE lot since 1.1.1, you might even do it both ways and still have room on the CD-ROM to put back all the gnu source :-) =Ned Horvath=
gentner@Apple.COM (Don Gentner) (03/24/90)
In article <-286499949@hpcupt1.HP.COM> rterry@hpcupt1.HP.COM (Ray Terry) writes: >Does anybody know.?.?. > >If I want A/UX 2.0, but don't need another disk drive (already have 400 megs >worth) and don't have an Apple 40 meg tape drive (I have a Teac 60 meg), >can I get 2.0?? In addition to coming on a hard disk, cartridge tape, and CD-ROM, A/UX 2.0 will also be available on floppy disks. Don - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Don Gentner email: gentner@apple.com Apple Computer telephone: 408 974-5198 10440 Bubb Rd, MS: 58A fax: 408 974-0892 Cupertino, CA 95014 AppleLink: GENTNER
jimvons@ashtate (Jim von Schmacht) (03/24/90)
The press releases said that it is also available on 800k disks...thousands
of them probably.
Jim v.S.
--
Jim von Schmacht Senior Member, Project Test Staff Ashton Tate Corporation
Disclaimer: Standard Issue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It isn't the years - it's the mileage" -Indiana Jonesjonb@vector.Dallas.TX.US (Jon Buller) (03/26/90)
In article <858@ashton.UUCP> jimvons@ashton.UUCP (Jim von Schmacht) writes: >The press releases said that it is also available on 800k disks...thousands >of them probably. Well, maybe not THOUSANDS... 8-) I seem to remember hearing that the last version was available on 55 disks once. Anyone know just how many disks 2.0 will be on? My guess is 75. It might be better to spend a little extra on a CD-ROM player and save the weeks of installation and disk swapping... -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Buller jonb@vector.dallas.tx.us ..!texbell!vector!jonb FROM Fortune IMPORT Quote; FROM Lawyers IMPORT Disclaimer;
dwb@sticks.apple.com (David Berry) (03/27/90)
In article <1134@vector.Dallas.TX.US> jonb@vector.Dallas.TX.US (Jon Buller) writes: >In article <858@ashton.UUCP> jimvons@ashton.UUCP (Jim von Schmacht) writes: >>The press releases said that it is also available on 800k disks...thousands >>of them probably. > >Well, maybe not THOUSANDS... 8-) I seem to remember hearing that the last >version was available on 55 disks once. Anyone know just how many disks >2.0 will be on? My guess is 75. It might be better to spend a little extra >on a CD-ROM player and save the weeks of installation and disk swapping... 1.1 was on 26 1.1.1 was on 27 2.0 is on 39 I'd still suggest a CD-Rom player... David W. Berry A/UX Toolbox Engineer dwb@apple.com
jonb@vector.Dallas.TX.US (Jon Buller) (03/29/90)
In article <7409@goofy.Apple.COM> dwb@sticks.apple.com (David Berry) writes: [ comments on how big A/UX is (as applied to 800K floppies) deleted ] > 1.1 was on 26 > 1.1.1 was on 27 > 2.0 is on 39 > > I'd still suggest a CD-Rom player... > David W. Berry A/UX Toolbox Engineer > dwb@apple.com Well, I'm impressed. That's about 30MB, I would have thought that getting all of SYS V, those BSD extras, and all the other goodies that are rumored to be in there, would have taken a LOT more space. Maybe UNIX isn't such a resource PIG after all... 8-) Thanks for setting me straight. I wonder where I heard the number 55...? And has Apple set the price on all that yet? Any idea when they will? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Buller jonb@vector.dallas.tx.us ..!texbell!vector!jonb FROM Fortune IMPORT Quote; FROM Lawyers IMPORT Disclaimer;
louis@asterix.drev.dnd.ca (Louis Demers) (03/29/90)
jonb@vector.Dallas.TX.US (Jon Buller) writes: >In article <7409@goofy.Apple.COM> dwb@sticks.apple.com (David Berry) writes: >Well, I'm impressed. That's about 30MB, I would have thought that getting all >of SYS V, those BSD extras, and all the other goodies that are rumored to be >in there, would have taken a LOT more space. Maybe UNIX isn't such a resource >PIG after all... 8-) >Thanks for setting me straight. I wonder where I heard the number 55...? 55 Mbytes is the partition size on disk to receive all of this stuff along with some free space to work. -- | Louis Demers | DREV, Defence Research Establishment,Valcartier | | louis@asterix.drev.dnd.ca | POBox 8800, Courcelette,Quebec, CANADA, G0A 1R0 | | (131.132.48.2) | Office: (418) 844-4424 fax (418) 844-4511 | +---------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
louis@asterix.drev.dnd.ca (Louis Demers) (03/30/90)
I wrote >jonb@vector.Dallas.TX.US (Jon Buller) writes: >>In article <7409@goofy.Apple.COM> dwb@sticks.apple.com (David Berry) writes: >>Well, I'm impressed. That's about 30MB, I would have thought that getting all >>of SYS V, those BSD extras, and all the other goodies that are rumored to be >>in there, would have taken a LOT more space. Maybe UNIX isn't such a resource >>PIG after all... 8-) >>Thanks for setting me straight. I wonder where I heard the number 55...? > 55 Mbytes is the partition size on disk to receive all of this >stuff along with some free space to work. I think this 55 Mb. partition leaves you with 10 Mb free. You then need a swap space partition (+/- 20 Mb) and esch (3 Mb), and partition for users (if you don't want to put them in the root partition) (??? Mb). For X11 installation, the doc says you need 12 Mb. free. Hope I didn't mislead anyboy with the "all this stuff". -- | Louis Demers | DREV, Defence Research Establishment,Valcartier | | louis@asterix.drev.dnd.ca | POBox 8800, Courcelette,Quebec, CANADA, G0A 1R0 | | (131.132.48.2) | Office: (418) 844-4424 fax (418) 844-4511 | +---------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+