sharon@asylum.SF.CA.US (Sharon Fisher) (04/08/90)
In article <55075@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV> randy@polecat.llnl.gov (Randy Futor) writes: >geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) writes: >> The May MacWorld just arrived yesterday. The thing is huge. And >>MacConnection seems to have provided half of the bulk. >> Does anyone have a guess as to how much they spent for their 78 page >>(counting fold-outs) ad? >We discussed that very thing briefly at the BMUG meeting last Thursday >& one of the members ( ooops! excuse me. "one of the *subscribers*!! >( hats off to the legal beagles!! ) ) offered a fugure of $18k/page. Boy, I don't think so. First of all, I would expect that a 78-page ad is probably a bound-in booklet, say, rather than simply 78 pages of MacWorld. This is lots, lots cheaper because MacConnection has to go out and print the booklets themselves, but they don't have to pay as much to MacWorld. Secondly, they *surely* got a volume discount. Thirdly, I don't think even MacWorld charges $18K per page of ad.
jjw7384@ultb.isc.rit.edu (Jeff Wasilko) (04/08/90)
In article <3804.261cbfeb@vax5.cit.cornell.edu> bary1@vax5.cit.cornell.edu writes: >In article <12532@dime.cs.umass.edu>, roskill@cs.umass.edu writes: >> In article <55075@lll-winken.LLNL.GOV>, randy@polecat.llnl.gov (Randy Futor) writes... >>>geoff@pmafire.UUCP (Geoff Allen) writes: >>>>Wow! >>>> The May MacWorld just arrived yesterday. The thing is huge. And >>>>MacConnection seems to have provided half of the bulk. >> >> I'd just like to say that in this day and age (what a terribly overused >> phrase!), to waste that much paper on advertising is ridiculous. >> I'm not sure who I am more disgusted with, MacConnection for running >> the ad, or MacWorld for allowing them to run it. I think that > >Concerning the waste of paper, The glossy paper these magazines are printed >on are made of mostly clay and very little paper pulp. That's why they are >unwanted by paper recyclers. > - Bill Sorry, but the glossy paper is not made of 'mostly clay', but is still made from paper pulp. The clay coating is added at a later step in the papermaking process. With newer technologies, clay coated stock is being recycled more, and its even possible to recycle whole magazines (staples and all). Jeff (P.S. I'm majoring in printing management, and my roomate, who knows alot more about paper and recycling than I do concurs.) -- | RIT VAX/VMS Systems: | Jeff Wasilko | RIT Ultrix Systems: | |BITNET: jjw7384@ritvax+----------------------+INET:jjw7384@ultb.isc.rit.edu| |UUCP: {psuvax1, mcvax}!ritvax.bitnet!JJW7384 +___UUCP:jjw7384@ultb.UUCP____+ |INTERNET: jjw7384@isc.rit.edu |'claimer: No one cares. |
derosa@motcid.UUCP (John DeRosa) (04/10/90)
What is equally stupid about the size of the ad for MacWareHouse (a very very good company), is that several items are repeatedly` shown. I.E. MacRecorder is in there about 3 times.
tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (HIM) (04/11/90)
><> >Item:1709 About: Re: Did you check out MacConnection's latest ad? >Author: [<No Identification>] (*Masked*@cs.umass.edu) >Date: Tue Apr 10 11:14:11 1990 >Lines: 43 Keyw: >kucharsk@number6.Solbourne.COM (William Kucharski) writes... >>Oh, please. So they basically ran a catalog in the middle of MacWorld. It's >>nothing that hasn't been done by a sampling of different companies in Byte >>over >>the years. > >That doesn't make it more acceptable. It simply makes it commonly stupid. > What it means is that it is PROFITABLE. You know, money. The reason the magazine and company is in business. >>Oh please. I guess we should have people stop selling DTP packages, as I'm >>sure >>the number of trees used to make the paper for the MacWorld catalog was much >>less than the number required to make the paper that was used for the proofs >>from all the LaserWriters running DTP programs over the past month, let alone >>the paper that was spit out of all the Linotronics. As a matter of fact, >>better >>get rid of all those printers or make sure people only use recycled paper in >>them. Actually , maybe we had better issue ration cards for paper. That way we can send govt. agents in to check up on folks. >It's exactly this kind of attitude that has caused our environmental problems >today. It's always "someone else's problem". We here at UMass and Amherst >in general make recycling part of our lives. All the Mac/PC labs on campus >recycle as well. But for a magazine (one that often protrays itself as very >socially aware) to print 70+ pages of one company's advertisement is simply >irresponsible. No , it is not "someone else's problem". It is yours , and mine. I recycle all that paper they ask me two in my town, I collect my cans like a good boy too. What is annoying that that environmentalists , (like every other group with a good basic idea and a lunatic fringe) feel that they can infringe on a right just for thier cause. If that magazine wants to print 1000 pages of advertising fine. Let em. If you really want to help, make the process to recycle glossy magazine paper more econiomical then it won't matter. By the way .. how much extra paper does that school you go to generate every year printing catalogues to high school students ? How many mass mailings ?? I would suspect that more paper about that school winds up in the bottom of prospective student lockers every year ignored than that ad took. (geee -- this is more fun than comp.sys.amiga -- we usually only talk about toxic waste! (insert :-) 's liberally)) **************************************************************************** "I Chopped My Uncle To Death With a Machete" -- Game Show Host. Kenneth J. Jamieson: Xanadu Enterprises Inc. "Professional Amiga Software" {uunet , ddsw1}!tronsbox!tron1 origional text is Copryright 1990. Sysop, Romantic Encounters BBS - (201)759-8450 / (201)759-8568 ****************************************************************************
kassover@jupiter.crd.ge.com (David Kassover) (04/11/90)
In article <262210db:1709.3comp.sys.mac;1@tronsbox.UUCP> tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (HIM) writes: ... >(geee -- this is more fun than comp.sys.amiga -- we usually only talk about >toxic waste! (insert :-) 's liberally)) There are some who would say that amigas *ARE* toxic waste. 8-) (With thanks to David Gerrold) David Kassover kassover@ra.crd.ge.com kassover@crd.ge.com
roskill@cs.umass.edu (04/11/90)
In article <262210db:1709.3comp.sys.mac;1@tronsbox.UUCP>, tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (HIM) writes... >What it means is that it is PROFITABLE. You know, money. The reason the >magazine and company is in business. Oh well...so much for the concern of the Mac community about life in general. Money and profit rule the day. And I thought the Mac world was different. >No , it is not "someone else's problem". It is yours , and mine. I recycle >all that paper they ask me two in my town, I collect my cans like a good boy >too. > >What is annoying that that environmentalists , (like every other group with >a good basic idea and a lunatic fringe) I would hardly call what a stated on the lunatic fringe. I suspose that means anyone who is concerned about our environment is on the lunatic fringe. >feel that they can infringe on a >right just for thier cause. If that magazine wants to print 1000 pages of >advertising fine. Let em. Huh? You just contradicted yourself. You say it is not "someone else's problem", and that you are a responsible person, but that a magazine should not be responsible. I don't think I'm infriging on the rights of the magazine to ask for a little concern about this issue. If MacConnection (a fine company, I'll state again) wants to run an ad, fine, but there is no need for the overblown "catalog" they ran in MacWorld. It only serves to confuse people (what's a review...what's an ad..). I just thought MacWorld would have a little more taste, a little more concern, and a LOT LESS GREED. >If you really want to help, make the process to recycle glossy magazine >paper more econiomical then it won't matter. I would if I could, but alas, chemistry was not my choice of profession. > >By the way .. how much extra paper does that school you go to generate every >year printing catalogues to high school students ? How many mass mailings ?? >I would suspect that more paper about that school winds up in the bottom of >prospective student lockers every year ignored than that ad took. Yes...that's true, but my school prints it's catalogs on newpaper quality paper (very easy to recycle), and that is serving an Educational service. UMass does not put out a catalog to make a huge amount of money (although, I will be the first to admit, there is money involved). They are not taking out 40 pages in the New York Times Magazine to cover their courses. So there is quite a difference. Trying not to be a lunatic, Damian |----------------------------------------------------------------| |"Party For Your Right To Fight" | "Welcome to the Terrordome!"| | Damian Roskill | | | Roskill@cs.umass.edu | | |----------------------------------------------------------------|
jcocon%hazel.cs.clemson.edu@hubcap.clemson.edu (James C. O'Connor III, 2841) (04/11/90)
From article <12770@dime.cs.umass.edu>, by roskill@cs.umass.edu: > Oh well...so much for the concern of the Mac community about life > in general. Money and profit rule the day. And I thought the Mac > world was different. > > Damian Take it elsewhere. This is comp.sys.mac. Jim
jeremyr@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Jeremy Roussak) (04/11/90)
In article <12770@dime.cs.umass.edu> roskill@cs.umass.edu writes: [much stuff deleted; then a comment was made on waste of paper by his school] >Yes...that's true, but my school prints it's catalogs on newpaper quality >paper (very easy to recycle), and that is serving an Educational service. >UMass does not put out a catalog to make a huge amount of money (although, >I will be the first to admit, there is money involved). They are not >taking out 40 pages in the New York Times Magazine to cover their courses. It is rather unclear to me that the pollution and waste generated by a large volume of printing is lessened by the purpose to which it is put. Are the trees chopped down to make the paper damaged less because the stuff that is printed is advertising for a school rather than a computer company? Do the motives of the printers make any difference? Is the harm diminished because the aims are altruistic rather than financial? What's wrong with making a huge amount of money, anyway - Apple do it (sometimes). What does the New York Times magazine have to do with it? >So there is quite a difference. There is no difference. (By the way, has your school not taught you that "it's" is a contraction of "it is"? The posessive of "it" is "its" (no apostrophe).) Jeremy Roussak
jnixon@andrew.ATL.GE.COM (John F Nixon) (04/12/90)
roskill@cs.umass.edu writes: [lots of enviromental mudwrestling deleted] >Yes...that's true, but my school prints it's catalogs on newpaper quality >paper (very easy to recycle), and that is serving an Educational service. Ohhhh, whew, well, geeeeee, serving an Educational service. Well that makes a big difference. 8-} (btw, are those catalogs made from RECYCLED PAPER ?) >UMass does not put out a catalog to make a huge amount of money (although, >I will be the first to admit, there is money involved). Would it help if Macwhatever weren't trying to make a huge amount of money too? I thought not. Would it help if they donated all their profits to UMass (thus meeting an Educational need)? I thought so. **discreet cough** Since this doesn't have much to do with Macs, I'll shut up now. ---- jnixon@atl.ge.com ...steinmetz!atl.decnet!jnxion
macman@wpi.wpi.edu (Chris Silverberg) (04/12/90)
JR> (By the way, has your school not taught you that "it's" is a
JR> contraction of "it is"? The posessive of "it" is "its" (no
JR> apostrophe).)
Oh please... let's not start this... 1) we all make mistakes occasionally,
especially if you read my article ;-) and 2) this is certainly NOT the
newsgroup to do so. Maybe there's an English or grammer newsgroup??
Here's a bit from
"A Primer on How to Work With the USENET Community"
by Chuq Von Rospach
> Spelling Flames Considered Harmful
> Every so often a plague descends on the net called the spelling flame.
> It starts out when someone posts an article correcting the spelling or
> grammar in some article. The immediate result seems to be for everyone
> on the net to turn into a 6th grade English teacher and pick apart each
> other's postings for a few weeks. This is not productive and tends to
> cause people who used to be friends to get angry with each other.
> It is important to remember that we all make mistakes, and that there are
> many users on the net who use English as a second language. If you feel
> that you must make a comment on the quality of a posting, please do so by
> mail, not on the network.
==============================================================================
== Chris Silverberg, WPI Box 719 ========= BBS Sysop: Main Street U.S.A. =====
== USENET: macman@wpi.wpi.edu ============ 2400 baud - (508) 832-7725 ========
== BITNET: macman@wpi.bitnet ============= Fido: 322/575 - Second Sight BBS ==
== GEnie: C.Silverberg ================== America Online: Silverberg ========egapmh@uncecs.edu (Paul M. Hudy) (04/12/90)
In article <2105@sequent.cs.qmw.ac.uk>, jeremyr@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Jeremy Roussak) writes: > In article <12770@dime.cs.umass.edu> roskill@cs.umass.edu writes: > > [much stuff deleted; then a comment was made on waste of paper by his school] > > >Yes...that's true, but my school prints it's catalogs on newpaper quality > >paper (very easy to recycle), and that is serving an Educational service. > >UMass does not put out a catalog to make a huge amount of money (although, > >I will be the first to admit, there is money involved). They are not > >taking out 40 pages in the New York Times Magazine to cover their courses. > > It is rather unclear to me that the pollution and waste generated by a large > volume of printing is lessened by the purpose to which it is put. Are the > trees chopped down to make the paper damaged less because the stuff that > is printed is advertising for a school rather than a computer company? > Do the motives of the printers make any difference? Is the harm > diminished because the aims are altruistic rather than financial? What's > wrong with making a huge amount of money, anyway - Apple do it (sometimes). > What does the New York Times magazine have to do with it? > > >So there is quite a difference. > There is no difference. > > (By the way, has your school not taught you that "it's" is a contraction > of "it is"? The posessive of "it" is "its" (no apostrophe).) > > Jeremy Roussak Anyone who thinks Universities publish student catalogs for altruistic instead of financial reasons is sadly misleading themselves. Student enrollment is the main driver for increased budgets. Also, it may be possible that MacConnection actually saved more trees and money by putting their catalog inside MacWorld rather the doing a separate mailing to a larger and less targeted audience. I tend to keep my MacWorlds around a lot longer than I do catalogs I receive in the mail or included with orders. I also find it hard to believe that anyone could mistake the inserted catalog for anything but what it is - advertising. Advertising is not bad per se. *Every* organization advertises to some extent. In the mail order business, competition and price margins seem to be particularly cut-throat at this time. The consumer -you and I- buy mostly on price and secondarly on service. A dolloar or two in product price or shipping cost, seems to make a big difference in this market. Advertising allows you to stand out from the masses. Give the guys a break. I thought it was a well done piece. Not every month, mind you, but once or twice a year, sure. Plus, I found out some things about the company I didn't know - ie. the president is a woman. (For some reason, I liked that - response was sort of "Hmmm...well *all right*.) There are other aspects of the computer business - manufacturing, etc. which has a far worse track record or effect on the environment. This MacConnection Ad is very small and inconsequential. Would you be willing to give up your PC/MAC, or your car, or your, etc. in order to prevent environmental damage? It's a question of life style. I don't have much patience for gratuitous environmental sniping unless we are willing to giveup or sacrifice something in the process. Are we still in comp.sys.mac? ...sorry Paul M. Hudy <egapmh@ecsvax> UNC-General Administration Chapel Hill, NC
roskill@cs.umass.edu (04/13/90)
In article <2105@sequent.cs.qmw.ac.uk>, jeremyr@cs.qmw.ac.uk (Jeremy Roussak) writes... >It is rather unclear to me that the pollution and waste generated by a large >volume of printing is lessened by the purpose to which it is put. Are the >trees chopped down to make the paper damaged less because the stuff that >is printed is advertising for a school rather than a computer company? >Do the motives of the printers make any difference? Is the harm >diminished because the aims are altruistic rather than financial? What's >wrong with making a huge amount of money, anyway - Apple do it (sometimes). >What does the New York Times magazine have to do with it? Well, my point was: My school prints their catalogs on more easily recycleable paper than the MacConnection ad. The catalogs are printed on newpaper bond, considerablely easier to recycle. But you are right, the motive should make no difference. Somehow, though, I feel that there is more cause to print something that will be used for a mostly non-profit educational purpose than for advertising a single company. I think the difference I see is in the greed factor. But that is bias. >(By the way, has your school not taught you that "it's" is a contraction >of "it is"? The posessive of "it" is "its" (no apostrophe).) > >Jeremy Roussak You know Jeremy, I think it is so silly to make these discussions personal that I won't even comment on the above comment, except to say that I consider electronic mail to be a quick way to transmit information, not a forum for writing. In future, if you want to make a correction such as the above statement, send me a personal letter and don't waste the time of people on the net with your need to play english-police. Damian |----------------------------------------------------------------| |"Party For Your Right To Fight" | "Welcome to the Terrordome!"| | Damian Roskill | | | Roskill@cs.umass.edu | | |----------------------------------------------------------------|
tron1@tronsbox.UUCP (HIM) (04/14/90)
><> [David Kassover] (*Masked*@jupiter.crd.ge.com) > >In article <262210db:1709.3comp.sys.mac;1@tronsbox.UUCP> tron1@tronsbox.UUCP >(HIM) writes: >... >>(geee -- this is more fun than comp.sys.amiga -- we usually only talk about >>toxic waste! (insert :-) 's liberally)) > >There are some who would say that amigas *ARE* toxic waste. 8-) > >(With thanks to David Gerrold) >David Kassover ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ........ Any how many trees did Apple kill writing manuals for the Mac when we all know that the interface is so intuitive you don't even need them. And the applications are so consistent that THEY dont need them ?!?!?! (more smileys -- it's a joke people ) **************************************************************************** "Killer Psychotic Wasps From Alpha Centauri Devoured My Son" Reveals Jessica Hahn. -- Exclusive Pictures Inside. Kenneth J. Jamieson: Xanadu Enterprises Inc. "Professional Amiga Software" {uunet , ddsw1}!tronsbox!tron1 origional text is Copryright 1990. Sysop, Romantic Encounters BBS - (201)759-8450 / (201)759-8568 ****************************************************************************