nick@utcsscb.UUCP (01/16/87)
Keywords:Rumors Has anybody know when these things will be released and what they will be like?
joe@trotter.usma.edu (CPT Joe DiGangi) (01/20/89)
Well, I have to say that I'm sorely disappointed. I've owned a Mac 512K that was upgraded to a Plus for about 3 years, and this MacWorld Expo was the time I had finally decided to get a new machine. Rumors of the "Year of the CPU" are apparently not true - at least yet. I've been anxiously awaiting the resurgence of the innovative Apple that I once knew and loved, and all I get is a Mac SE with a 68030. That's not innovation! That's repackaging what they already make! I'm beginning to be more than a little upset at how the little guys don't count anymore. Maybe the recent rags are right - Apple is taking the "safe" approach by just incrementally improving their products so as not to upset the corporate world. Oh, well. I had hoped to get a laptop soon (guess I shouldn't hold my breath on that!), or maybe a 3-slot Mac IIx, or at least have a wider choice. Speaking of the new SE/030, I was reading on the boards last night that there are a lot of 3rd party products for this new machine. Does anybody know if the SE can be hooked to an external _color_ monitor? Now, if that's true, and I can have the transportability (not portability) of the SE, and a big screen with color at home, then maybe that's OK. All right, I'm ready for the deluge of reactions! Joe -- CPT Joe DiGangi Department of Mathematics, US Military Academy West Point, N.Y. 10996 UUCP: philabs!trotter!joe ARPA: digangi@westpoint.arpa Phone #: 914-938-4811
mithomas@bsu-cs.UUCP (Michael Thomas Niehaus) (01/22/89)
In article <1378@trotter.usma.edu>, joe@trotter.usma.edu (CPT Joe DiGangi) writes: > Speaking of the new SE/030, I was reading on the boards last night that there > are a lot of 3rd party products for this new machine. Does anybody know if > the SE can be hooked to an external _color_ monitor? Now, if that's true, and > I can have the transportability (not portability) of the SE, and a big screen > with color at home, then maybe that's OK. > > All right, I'm ready for the deluge of reactions! > > Joe > -- > CPT Joe DiGangi > Department of Mathematics, US Military Academy > West Point, N.Y. 10996 > UUCP: philabs!trotter!joe ARPA: digangi@westpoint.arpa Phone #: 914-938-4811 Well, from the list of developers that are working on boards for the new SE/30, several are monitor manufacturers. In fact, the official Apple brochures state that one of the possible uses of this slot is the attachment of a color monitor, since the ROMs in the machine support *color* QuickDraw. Now I just wish they would have made the built-in monitor a gray-scale monitor. So much for my wish list... Michael Niehaus Ball State University Apple Student Rep UUCP: ..!{pur-ee,iuvax}!bsu-cs!mithomas AppleLink: ST0374
swerling@caen.engin.umich.edu (Ace Swerling) (01/23/89)
In article <1378@trotter.usma.edu> joe@trotter.usma.edu (CPT Joe DiGangi) writes: >Well, I have to say that I'm sorely disappointed. I've owned a Mac 512K >that was upgraded to a Plus for about 3 years, and this MacWorld Expo was >the time I had finally decided to get a new machine. Rumors of the "Year of >the CPU" are apparently not true - at least yet. > >I had hoped to get a laptop soon (guess I shouldn't hold >my breath on that!), or maybe a 3-slot Mac IIx, or at least have a wider >choice. I read in a recent MacWeek that the 3-slot Mac II was supposed to be released sometime in late spring/early summer and the portable Mac will be available in limited quantities (I guess kind of like the Mac II at first) in the fall. If you want to get a laptop though, be propared to specnd a whold bunch of money. It's supposed to be very expensive.
ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (01/23/89)
In article <1378@trotter.usma.edu>, joe@trotter.usma.edu (CPT Joe DiGangi) writes... >Well, I have to say that I'm sorely disappointed. I've owned a Mac 512K >that was upgraded to a Plus for about 3 years, and this MacWorld Expo was >the time I had finally decided to get a new machine. Rumors of the "Year of >the CPU" are apparently not true - at least yet. > >I've been anxiously awaiting the resurgence of the innovative Apple that I >once knew and loved, and all I get is a Mac SE with a 68030. That's not >innovation! That's repackaging what they already make! I'm beginning to be >more than a little upset at how the little guys don't count anymore. Maybe >the recent rags are right - Apple is taking the "safe" approach by just >incrementally improving their products so as not to upset the corporate >world. Oh, well. I had hoped to get a laptop soon (guess I shouldn't hold >my breath on that!), or maybe a 3-slot Mac IIx, or at least have a wider >choice. I think since it's only Jan 22, it's a bit early to judge whether 1989 is truly "The Year of the CPU". I think that it will be a little while yet (perhaps '90) before really different stuff like NuGraf (or whatever Apple's PostScript replacement is), true MTasking, etc. come around, but I think they're laying the 32-bit, '030 architecture for some nice things ahead. And I'm not sure that they are completely ignoring the little guy: while the '030 SE is pricey, students will probably be able to buy the stripped-down version for somewhat over $3000. That's not too bad for an '030 box. If you're interested in the low end, I've heard that Apple's coming out with a Mac which will run both Mac and Apple II programs, and will be aimed at educational markets. But if you're thinking of buying the laptop (which may or may not be out by the end of the year), you're probably not looking at the low end anyway. :-> Robert ------ ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu ------ generic disclaimer: all my opinions are mine
riley@beowulf.ucsd.edu (Christian Riley) (01/23/89)
Did Apple release a new version of Hypercard? Does this version (or the old one) have a method of 1. increasing the amount of recursion allowed? or 2. a way turning off the "too much recursion" checking? Thanks for any help. Chris riley@cs.ucsd.edu ------------------------------------------------------------- "Free scientific inquiry? The first adjective is redundant." Chris Riley riley@cs.ucsd.edu
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (01/23/89)
/* joe@trotter.usma.edu in m.cs.uiuc.edu:comp.sys.mac Writes */ /* ---------- "New Macs" ---------- */ >I've been anxiously awaiting the resurgence of the innovative Apple that I >once knew and loved, and all I get is a Mac SE with a 68030. That's not >innovation! That's repackaging what they already make! I disagree. Besides the Mac II, Apple has *seldom* made great jumps in their hardware design. Here are some of the jumps from the past: Device Innovation (I'm not positive about all these) ------------------------------------------------------------- Mac128 Mac512K + more memory Mac512KE + 800K floppies, SCSI port Mac+ + more RAM/PRAM MacSE + better keyset/mouse, mini-Din connectors, 2* SCSI speed MacII + nubus, color monitor, 68020, stereo sound MacIIx + 1.44M floppies, 68030 MacSEx(/030) + ? When the MacSE/II were introduced, things were obviously broken. The Mac+ keyboard & mouse were inferior. Any color work had to be done on a PC. Fancy peripherals had to connected via the klugey SCSI port (face it, the port is mainly for disks). Apple was saving its tail. Since Apple is not threatened with extinction, why change things now? What is wrong with the current macs? They have good mice, keyboards, screens. They still have 1-3 years of before their memory address spaces will be exhausted (unlike the PC-AT!) The sound synthesis is adequate, and the architecture is open. The too-small floppy-disk problem is now fixed. A 2-floppy system is still possible. Now there are two breeds of macintosh: The II-type, and the SE/+-type. Don't expect to see an innovation with EVERY new introduction. Expect to see innovation whenever a PAIR of (SE,II) machines is introduced. My theory is that the SE/030 was 3 months late, and was delayed while they went ahead and announced the IIx to thwart Steve Jobs. Apple's innovations are mainly in the software, not in the hardware. Let's wait & see what's in System 7.0. Don Gillies {uiucdcs!gillies} U of Illinois
gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu (01/23/89)
I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. -- How much would *YOU* pay for an SE/030 upgrade and the 1.44Mb floppy in your machine? -- What if I said you *get* *to* THROW AWAY your MacSE expansion card(s), *NOW* how much would you pay? -- And if what I threw in a pair of ginsu knives?!?!?!? I bet that Apple won't ever announce an SE/030 upgrade, or if they do, then they won't sell many. We know the MacII has Nubus, well the SE has NoBus! And now the SE/030 has NoBus2! And NoBus != NoBus2!!! Apple has made the same mistake as IBM! And the blunder comes right after they watched IBM falter! People resist PS/2's & the microchannel bus partly because they must throw away their AT/XT cards. Now people can resist the SE/030 for the same reason! Really, I thought Apple would be smart enough to avoid getting into this pickle. Is this the end of upgrades for SE-class machines?
folta@tove.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) (01/24/89)
In article <5791@sdcsvax.UUCP> riley@beowulf.UCSD.EDU (Christian Riley) writes: > >Did Apple release a new version of Hypercard? [Other stuff, deleted] > >Chris >riley@cs.ucsd.edu I just saw in InfoWorld that Silicon Beach came out with a new Super HyperCard. It supports color and other nifty stuff. Apple is claimed to like it, implying (as I remember) that they would make an intro-level HyperCard, while others (Silicon Beach) could make enhanced, compatible versions. I've also read (in MacUser) about a new HyperCard from Apple, France, that is supposed to be weaker on graphics but much stronger on speed and power than the present HyperCard. Wayne Folta (folta@tove.umd.edu 128.8.128.42)
paul@mit-caf.MIT.EDU (Paul Meyer) (01/24/89)
> >I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. > >-- How much would *YOU* pay for an SE/030 upgrade and the 1.44Mb floppy >in your machine? > >-- What if I said you *get* *to* THROW AWAY your MacSE expansion >card(s), *NOW* how much would you pay? > >I bet that Apple won't ever announce an SE/030 upgrade, or if they do, >then they won't sell many. We know the MacII has Nubus, well the SE >has NoBus! And now the SE/030 has NoBus2! And NoBus != NoBus2!!! > >Apple has made the same mistake as IBM! There are some differences. First, I think that a larger percentage of people owned cards in the PC world. Sure, many SE owners have cards, but they aren't that prevalent. You only need a card if you want (and can afford) an accelerator, a big screen, and ethernet card, a PC emulator, etc. There are many (probably a majority) of SE owners out there with no cards at all. The big gain here is for us SE owners who would like to have the speed, superfloppies, color, and future compatibility of the Mac II or IIx but can't afford one. Jumping into the Mac II world will set you back $5000+, even with a student discount. However, if Apple provides the SE/030 upgrade for $1000-$1500, then I can have the fastest, most compatible Mac around for a price within my reach. Color is also within reach for another $1500-$2000. The total price of my SE/030 upgrade with external color could be in the range of $2500-$3500, plus the $1500 I could get for my original SE, much less than it would cost me to get to get a Mac IIx with an external color monitor. Even better, the upgrade price will be in $1500 installments, to make it easier to swallow. As an SE owner who wants the advantages of a Mac IIx, doesn't need slots or a big footprint, and is on a limited budget, I am very pleased with the prospect of being able to upgrade my SE to a Mac IIx rival complete with speed and the possibility of color. It remains to be seen if my prices are reasonable guesses. Here's hoping that Apple recognizes the advantages of getting a lot of users with upgraded SE's to show off the power of the Macintosh and prices the upgrades within reach. Anyone out there willing to venture a guess as to how much this SE -> SE/030 upgrade will cost Apple and how much they will charge for it? Paul Meyer Microsystems Technology Laboratories MIT
hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu (Josh Hodas) (01/24/89)
In article <8400065@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. > >-- How much would *YOU* pay for an SE/030 upgrade and the 1.44Mb floppy >in your machine? > >-- What if I said you *get* *to* THROW AWAY your MacSE expansion >card(s), *NOW* how much would you pay? >.... > >Apple has made the same mistake as IBM! And the blunder comes right >after they watched IBM falter! People resist PS/2's & the >microchannel bus partly because they must throw away their AT/XT >cards. Now people can resist the SE/030 for the same reason! While I admit that there is some problems to be seen in the upgrade, there is a serious flaw in the logic in the poster's argument. IBM user's had to throw away lot's of cards because you needed cards for just about everything in the PC. But in the SE there seem to be pretty much 3 kinds of cards. 1) Accelarators -- owners of these would presumably throw them out or sell them anyway since there is not much point in "accelarating" a 16 MHz 68030 machine with an 8 or 16 MHz 68020. 2) Display Adaptors -- here there is only a partial loss since the display (which for 1 bit/pixel systems is the larger cost item) is still usable, you just need a new card. 3) Communications boards (ethernet, 3270, etc) -- here you have (presumably, but see below) a total loss, but I suspect such cards count for a very low percentage of the number of add-on cards sold. Also, I would not leap to the conclusion that the boards will have to be thrown out. I haven't seen the new bus spec yet, but it sounds like it's pretty much just the straight processor bus. There is no reason that i can think of that someone couldn't build an adapter. There is a precedent for this; my old 512e is now running a 16 MHz 68000 accelarator designed for the SE but plugged into an adapter hooked to the 68000 on the 512e motherboard. (this was a setup designed by MacMemory but now being sold by Siclone). Just one man's opinion. Josh ------------------------- Josh Hodas (hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu) 4223 Pine Street Philadelphia, PA 19104 (215) 222-7112 (home) (215) 898-5423 (school office)
billkatt@sol.engin.umich.edu (Steve Bollinger) (01/25/89)
In article <7279@netnews.upenn.edu> hodas@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Josh Hodas) writes: >In article <8400065@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >> >>I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. >> >>-- How much would *YOU* pay for an SE/030 upgrade and the 1.44Mb floppy >>in your machine? >> >>-- What if I said you *get* *to* THROW AWAY your MacSE expansion >>card(s), *NOW* how much would you pay? > >>.... >> >>Apple has made the same mistake as IBM! And the blunder comes right >>after they watched IBM falter! People resist PS/2's & the >>microchannel bus partly because they must throw away their AT/XT >>cards. Now people can resist the SE/030 for the same reason! I don't agree. I have a Mac II, and I can't tell you how much I would give for a slot which was just the processor bus (as the SEx). I like NuBus but I want a higher bandwidth connection. Besides, why put a fully arbitrated bus on a machine which only supports one card at a time? +----------------------+----------------------------------------------------+ | Steve Bollinger | Internet: billkatt@caen.engin.umich.edu | | 4297 Sulgrave Dr. +------+---------------------------------------------+ | Swartz Creek, Mi. 48473 | "My employer doesn't take my opinion any | +-----------------------------+ more seriously than you do." | | "You remember the IIe, it +---------------------------------------------+ | was the machine Apple made before they decided people didn't need | | machines with big screens, color, or slots." | | - Harry Anderson (from NBC's Night Court) | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
lippin@sizzlean.berkeley.edu (The Apathist) (01/25/89)
Recently gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu wrote: >-- What if I said you *get* *to* THROW AWAY your MacSE expansion >card(s), *NOW* how much would you pay? At MacWorld, Dove was showing a funny looking card to adapt SE cards to a SE/30 slot. They claimed it should work for anything but accelerator cards. --Tom Lippincott lippin@math.berkeley.edu "Don't mind him; he's from Barcelona." --Basil Fawlty
bcase@cup.portal.com (Brian bcase Case) (01/26/89)
>I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. >I bet that Apple won't ever announce an SE/030 upgrade, or if they do, >then they won't sell many. We know the MacII has Nubus, well the SE >has NoBus! And now the SE/030 has NoBus2! And NoBus != NoBus2!!! >Apple has made the same mistake as IBM! And the blunder comes right >after they watched IBM falter! You forget the corporate market. They buy new machines, not upgrades. The SE/30 is going to sell like hot cakes for the same reason that the Plus took off like wild fire: It is in an incremental upgrade to a configuration that makes sense (small size, just the right amount of expandability (can I get color? Yes? I'll take it), fast processor). Let's face it, the money is in corporate sales and Apple is serving that market.
vita@daredevil.steinmetz (Mark F. Vita) (01/27/89)
In article <8400065@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. ... >Apple has made the same mistake as IBM! And the blunder comes right >after they watched IBM falter! People resist PS/2's & the >microchannel bus partly because they must throw away their AT/XT >cards. Now people can resist the SE/030 for the same reason! I don't think the two situations are really comparable. There aren't nearly as many SE cards around as there are PC cards. This is true probably for two reasons: 1) the SE just hasn't been around as long as the PC/AT/etc. 2) the SE is usable as shipped; you don't need to jam 2 or 3 cards in the thing just to make it operational, the way you do with a PC. If you think about it, there are really relatively few cards offered for that SE slot. And a lot of those are accelerator cards and so forth which aren't going to be useful in an SE/30 anyway. I'd guess that out of the entire installed base of Mac SEs, 80-90% have nothing in the slot. In the PC world, ~100% of the machines have one or more cards installed. Hence bus incompatibility is a MUCH larger problem for IBM than it is for Apple. Besides, as I understand it, Apple didn't really have much choice in the matter. Because of the differences in CPU architecture, forcing the SE/30 slot to be SE-compatible would have needlessly crippled the machine. Going with an incompatible slot was done for technical reasons, not for marketing reasons, as I suspect was the case with IBM's MCA. ---- Mark Vita ARPA: vita@ge-crd.ARPA General Electric Company UUCP: vita@desdemona.crd.ge.com Corporate R & D desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP Schenectady, NY uunet!steinmetz!desdemona!vita
hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Robert J. Hammen) (01/28/89)
One thing most people don't seem to know is that there are adaptors to convert between the old SE bus and the new Direct Connect slot. Dove had one "under glass" at the Apple booth. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / Robert Hammen | hammen@csd4.milw.wisc.edu | uwmcsd1!uwmcsd4!hammen / / Delphi: HAMMEN | GEnie: R.Hammen | CI$: 70701,2104 | MacNet: HAMMEN / / Bulfin Printers | 1887 N. Water | Milwaukee WI 53202 | (414) 271-1887 / / 3839 N. Humboldt #204 | Milwaukee WI 53212 | (414) 961-0715 (h) / ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
dent@unocss.UUCP (Dave Caplinger) (01/29/89)
From article <13027@steinmetz.ge.com>, by vita@daredevil.steinmetz (Mark F. Vita): > Besides, as I understand it, Apple didn't really have much choice in > the matter. Because of the differences in CPU architecture, forcing > the SE/30 slot to be SE-compatible would have needlessly crippled the > machine. Going with an incompatible slot was done for technical > reasons, not for marketing reasons, as I suspect was the case with > IBM's MCA. Actually, I think the "corporate money" explanation describes it better. Apple apparently has no qualms about intentionally crippling a machine, as can be seen in the Apple //gs. There shouldn't have been any reason (besides not wanting it to compete with Macs) the //gs couldn't have been a speed demon. One thing that I'm amazed about though: The //c+. Apple 1) actually recognized competition, and 2) made a machine that made sense! Now, if they'd get the Mega II chip in there and put in a battery (and flat screen), they'll finally have the //c done. (After what, 5 years? :-) Ah well, I guess I'll wait for "Golden Gate"... (But I'd rather have an SE/30 with an external chasis that takes Mac II nubus cards... :-) Mountain Computer, are you still out there? > ---- > Mark Vita ARPA: vita@ge-crd.ARPA > General Electric Company UUCP: vita@desdemona.crd.ge.com > Corporate R & D desdemona!vita@steinmetz.UUCP > Schenectady, NY uunet!steinmetz!desdemona!vita -/ Dave Caplinger /------------------+----------------------------------- Microcomputer Specialist | Internet: unocc07@zeus.unl.edu "Computing and Data Communications" | UUCP: uunet!btni!unocss!dent University of Nebraska at Omaha | Bitnet: UNOCC07@UNOMA1 Omaha, NE 68182 | or dc3a+@andrew.cmu.edu
ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) (02/04/89)
In article <8400065@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. >-- How much would *YOU* pay for an SE/030 upgrade and the 1.44Mb floppy >in your machine? >-- What if I said you *get* *to* THROW AWAY your MacSE expansion >card(s), *NOW* how much would you pay? >I bet that Apple won't ever announce an SE/030 upgrade, or if they do, >then they won't sell many. We know the MacII has Nubus, well the SE >has NoBus! And now the SE/030 has NoBus2! And NoBus != NoBus2!!! >Apple has made the same mistake as IBM! And the blunder comes right >after they watched IBM falter! People resist PS/2's & the >microchannel bus partly because they must throw away their AT/XT >cards. Now people can resist the SE/030 for the same reason! >Really, I thought Apple would be smart enough to avoid getting into >this pickle. Is this the end of upgrades for SE-class machines? This is a crock....The SE30 will sell like Hot cakes, the 32 bit bus is different, there is no good way to provide compatbility for the cards that fit the current SE, and what cards do you have in your SE that you really need in the SE30..an accelerator?? What for?? Networking? Good idea, since they are already available for the SE30..yes you have to get a new one, but the newer one with the SE30 will easily out-perform the older ones. Color cards, like the Orchid, the SE30 already has color quickdraw just like the Mac II & IIx, just add a SuperMac card, and 16 million colors are yours.. The machine is fast...it portable, it fills a gap in the product line....later this year another Mac will come out this is not the last Mac for 89....Apple is not making mistakes, they are making some good marketing decisions for a change, now if they'll only lower the prices on the Mac Lines MORE..... -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-Sysop FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division
jyenr@ut-emx.UUCP (John Yen) (02/04/89)
In article <8400065@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > > Really, I thought Apple would be smart enough to avoid getting into > this pickle. Is this the end of upgrades for SE-class machines? -- stuff snarling about lack of NuBus (agree; silly) snapped off -- Looks to me like Apple is securing its low-end computer line. Leave the Mac line to all the hackers and busines people who feel they can afford it. Any silly people who want a high-powered computer at a low price may go sit in a corner and wail. Flames aside, the student prices for the SE/30 do seem really good -- but it also seems like a deadend machine. John Yen
AXS101@PSUVM.BITNET (Adrian Sullivan) (02/05/89)
In article <294@bridge2.3Com.Com>, ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) says: >....later this year another Mac will come out >this is not the last Mac for 89....Apple is not making mistakes, they >are making some good marketing decisions for a change, now if they'll >only lower the prices on the Mac Lines MORE..... just wondering, but do you know if this new mac will be in an SE body, or a mac][ body? and if it's in an SE, will it have a small monitor with 72dpi resolution or will it be nice. and might it be color or b&w? thanks for any replies --==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==-- -Adrian Sullivan, Vice President PAMUG == -==- Little Mac BBs --==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--== -==- (814) 238-4276 - axs101@psuvm.bitnet axs@psuarch.bitnet == -==- 2400/1200bps --==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--==--== -==- 8-n-1 24hrs
ching@pepsi.amd.com (Mike Ching) (02/05/89)
In article <70126AXS101@PSUVM> AXS101@PSUVM.BITNET (Adrian Sullivan) writes: >In article <294@bridge2.3Com.Com>, ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) says: >>....later this year another Mac will come out >>this is not the last Mac for 89....Apple is not making mistakes, they >>are making some good marketing decisions for a change, now if they'll >>only lower the prices on the Mac Lines MORE..... > >just wondering, but do you know if this new mac will be in an SE body, or >a mac][ body? and if it's in an SE, will it have a small monitor with >72dpi resolution or will it be nice. and might it be color or b&w? >thanks for any replies > In one of the guided tours that came with a new Mac II there's a picture of a Localtalk network containing 2 Laserwriters, a MacPlus sitting on a Hard 20, a Mac SE, 2 Mac IIs, and 2 boxes that look like the rumored small footprint Mac II. If everything is to scale, the monitor is slightly larger than the current Mac II monitor and the base is the same width as the monitor. There's only one floppy slot with a rectangle under it that might be a case decoration or possibly something more interesting. The known parts of the picture are pretty accurate so the details like square corners on the monitor are likely representative of what's in store. mike ching
holland@m2.csc.ti.com (Fred Hollander) (02/06/89)
In article <70126AXS101@PSUVM> AXS101@PSUVM.BITNET (Adrian Sullivan) writes: >In article <294@bridge2.3Com.Com>, ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) says: >>....later this year another Mac will come out >>this is not the last Mac for 89....Apple is not making mistakes, they >>are making some good marketing decisions for a change, now if they'll >>only lower the prices on the Mac Lines MORE..... > >just wondering, but do you know if this new mac will be in an SE body, or >a mac][ body? and if it's in an SE, will it have a small monitor with >72dpi resolution or will it be nice. and might it be color or b&w? >thanks for any replies I think that at the March expo they'll announce a 3- or 4-slot Mac IIx. Don't remember where I read that. Fred Hollander Computer Science Center Texas Instruments, Inc. hollander@ti.com The above statements are my own and not representative of Texas Instruments.
lsr@Apple.COM (Larry Rosenstein) (02/06/89)
In article <24344@amdcad.AMD.COM> ching@pepsi.AMD.COM (Mike Ching) writes: >In one of the guided tours that came with a new Mac II there's a picture >of a Localtalk network containing 2 Laserwriters, a MacPlus sitting on a >Hard 20, a Mac SE, 2 Mac IIs, and 2 boxes that look like the rumored >small footprint Mac II. Sorry to disappoint you, but those are MS-DOS machines. (I think they're supposed to be IBM PCs.) -- Larry Rosenstein, Object Specialist Apple Computer, Inc. 20525 Mariani Ave, MS 46-B Cupertino, CA 95014 AppleLink:Rosenstein1 domain:lsr@Apple.COM UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!lsr
mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu (Dean Yu) (02/08/89)
In article <70126AXS101@PSUVM> AXS101@PSUVM.BITNET (Adrian Sullivan) writes: >In article <294@bridge2.3Com.Com>, ngg@bridge2.3Com.Com (Norman Goodger) says: >>....later this year another Mac will come out >>this is not the last Mac for 89....Apple is not making mistakes, they >>are making some good marketing decisions for a change, now if they'll >>only lower the prices on the Mac Lines MORE..... > >just wondering, but do you know if this new mac will be in an SE body, or >a mac][ body? and if it's in an SE, will it have a small monitor with >72dpi resolution or will it be nice. and might it be color or b&w? >thanks for any replies > The TWO other Macs that are due out this year are the laptop (Mac Jr) and the three slot IIx (Mac IIz).
swerling@caen.engin.umich.edu (Ace Swerling) (02/08/89)
In article <24344@amdcad.AMD.COM> ching@pepsi.AMD.COM (Mike Ching) writes: >In one of the guided tours that came with a new Mac II there's a picture >of a Localtalk network containing 2 Laserwriters, a MacPlus sitting on a >Hard 20, a Mac SE, 2 Mac IIs, and 2 boxes that look like the rumored >small footprint Mac II. If everything is to scale, the monitor is >slightly larger than the current Mac II monitor and the base is the same >width as the monitor. There's only one floppy slot with a rectangle under >it that might be a case decoration or possibly something more interesting. >The known parts of the picture are pretty accurate so the details like >square corners on the monitor are likely representative of what's in >store. > >mike ching I got the new issue of MacWeek today and there's some info about the new 3-slot Mac II. It's called the Mac IIcx. It comes with a SuperDrive, 68030, 68882 co-processor, and will be introduced in March at a show in Hanover, West Germany. The IIcx will be priced closer to the Mac SE/30 than the Mac II, which presents the question as to what will happen to the current Mac II. Apple says that it will continue to sell the Mac II, but I wonder who will buy this machine if they can buy a IIcx. Any responses from Apple? Apple also said at their shareholders meeting that they will introduce their long-awaited portable this summer. The main limiting factor on releasing this machine is the new technology in the display. From the rumor mill, it said in MacWeek that there's some controversy inside the portable division about whether to release the almost completed 68000 based machine, or to wait and release a new design with a 68030. Supposedly, people are being taken from the 68000 project and moved to the 68030 project. I guess that tells you what's going to happen. -Ace Disclaimer: I only read this stuff in MacWeek. If it's wrong, sue them, not me.
ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (02/08/89)
In article <4155e119.13e07@dreams.engin.umich.edu>, mystone@caen.engin.umich.edu (Dean Yu) writes... [discussion about this year's Macs] > >The TWO other Macs that are due out this year are the laptop (Mac Jr) and >the three slot IIx (Mac IIz). Actually, I think there will be more than that coming out by late '89/ early '90. Robert ------ ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu ------ generic disclaimer: all my opinions are mine
David_Greg_Herlihy@cup.portal.com (02/09/89)
The latest word is that the MacIISC will be introduced in at the European MacWorld in early March. It will feature an 030 and three slots. (this is from the latest edition of ComputerWorld) The Mac II will be phased out, in order to standardize on the 030. greg herlihy
tron@wpi.wpi.edu (Richard G Brewer) (02/24/89)
>In article <8400065@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >>I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. >... >>Apple has made the same mistake as IBM! And the blunder comes right >>after they watched IBM falter! People resist PS/2's & the >>microchannel bus partly because they must throw away their AT/XT >>cards. Now people can resist the SE/030 for the same reason! That's not the case at all, as any hardware engineer could tell you. The SE uses a 16 bit data bus - a limit od the 68000 16/32 bit architecture. The SE/30 is a true 32 bit machine. Putting a 16 bit slot in it would have done 2 things : 1. slowed down the data bus speed (they might as wekll had just introduced an Apple 68030 card for the SE in this case), and 2. MAJOR SYSTEM HEADACHES. I'm sure that the Apple people on the 'net would agree to this fact... Richard G. Brewer +----------------------------+--------------+--------------------------+ | Richard G. Brewer (TRON) | Worcester | rbrewer@wpi.bitnet | | WPI Box 149 | Polytechnic | tron@wpi.wpi.edu | | 100 Institute Rd. | Institute +--------------------------+ | Worcester, Ma 01609-2280 +--------------+ "Power through better | | (508) 792-3231 | VaNdaLs Sack | design and engineering" | +----------------------------+--------------+--------------------------+
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (03/01/89)
in article <975@wpi.wpi.edu>, tron@wpi.wpi.edu (Richard G Brewer) says: >>In article <8400065@m.cs.uiuc.edu> gillies@m.cs.uiuc.edu writes: >>>I think Apple has shot itself in the foot. >>>People resist PS/2's & the microchannel bus partly because they must >>>throw away their AT/XT cards. Now people can resist the SE/030 for the >>>same reason! > That's not the case at all, as any hardware engineer could tell you. I'm a rather unbiased hardware engineer (I don't use Apples or IBMs) and I'll tell you it's not the case, but for some additional reasons. > The SE uses a 16 bit data bus - a limit od the 68000 16/32 bit architecture. > The SE/30 is a true 32 bit machine. Putting a 16 bit slot in it would have > done 2 things : > 1. slowed down the data bus speed > 2. MAJOR SYSTEM HEADACHES. Certainly #1 is true, and as far as I know #2 could be reasonable. But there's a more fundamental difference between SE slots and IBM slots. Obviously IBM could make the same arguments about Microchannel vs. AT buses; that the AT bus is going to slow down their fast 16 bit or 32 bit machines, it being a basic enhancement to a not that altogether clever 8 bit expansion bus. But the main point is, the AT bus is designed as a general purpose expansion bus for multiple expansion cards. So is Microchannel, NuBus, VME, Multibus, and Futurebus. Certainly the AT bus is _implemented_ as not much more than an extension of the 8088/80286 bus, but that's just an implementation detail. It serves the function of a general purpose bus. That NuBus and some of the others look less like direct CPU buses is just the realization that some of the things done on CPU buses are hard to implement or lead to unwanted system dependencies on general purpose expansion buses. I think the difference between all of that and the Mac SE expansion connectors is that the latter are not intended as general purpose expansion buses, but merely a basic mechanism to bring out enough of the 68000 or 68030 lines to allow devices to be added. Each slot can directly accept one such device, but if you really wanted multiple-device expansion, the best thing to do would be to attach a NuBus backplane to your SE via an adaptor card that fits in the expansion slot. This slot was never designed to be a general purpose expansion bus, and tends to be very specific to the machine it's in. To implement the SE slot on the SE/30 would require a considerable amount of external electronics to convert 68030 bus signals to something 68000 compatible, and of course back again. On the Amiga machines I work on, and some modern PC compatibles as well, it often makes sense to offer both kinds of slots. The general purpose expansion slot gives you access to a large number of types of cards that work with any machine that supports the general expansion bus. The machine specific expansion slot allows direct access to the CPU bus, which for the Amiga lets us design in the capability to add fast 68020 and 68030 cards to the 68000 machine, and for some PC machines lets memory be added that is much faster than anything which could be added to the general purpose expansion bus. > Richard G. Brewer -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) (12/11/89)
Just read an article from London England about the new macs.
It says that there are two new models due for release in March/April.
This coincides with the release of System 7.0. The code names are
F-19 and K-19.
K-19 is supposed to be based on a 16 MHz 030. A scaled down
version of the IIcx with less on board stuff and 3 slots.
F-19 (the IIxi) has a 50 MHz 030 "braked to" 33 MHz. I would
assume that by braked they mean wait states. This is needed to
maintain compatibility with applications and peripherals. The claim
is that it will be 30-100% faster than the IIci.
Apparently MacWeek has some news of these machines as well.
maurice
Maurice Sharp MSc. Student
University of Calgary Computer Science Department
2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@ksi.cpsc.UCalgary.CA
Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 ...!alberta!calgary!sharpccw@nvuxr.UUCP (christopher wood) (12/15/89)
In article <2216@cs-spool.calgary.UUCP> sharp@ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Maurice Sharp) writes: > Just read an article from London England about the new macs. >It says that there are two new models due for release in March/April. ... > K-19 is supposed to be based on a 16 MHz 030. A scaled down >version of the IIcx with less on board stuff and 3 slots. So any idea how this is different from a IIcx? I mean, 16 MHz, 3 slots sounds like a IIcx to me! What's scaled down? What "on board stuff" is missing? I wanna know, I wanna know! > F-19 (the IIxi) has a 50 MHz 030 "braked to" 33 MHz. I would ... Now this machine is gonna cook! > maurice >Maurice Sharp MSc. Student >University of Calgary Computer Science Department >2500 University Drive N.W. sharp@ksi.cpsc.UCalgary.CA >Calgary, Alberta, T2N 1N4 ...!alberta!calgary!sharp -- Chris Wood Bellcore ...!bellcore!nvuxr!ccw or nvuxr!ccw@bellcore.bellcore.com
DANSEGLI@UCF1VM.BITNET (Mike Danseglio) (05/30/90)
What is the current story about the new low-end Macs? What processors are they gonna run? What prices will they enter at? And, most importantly, when will they be released? Mike. #
steve@violet.berkeley.edu (Steve Goldfield) (05/31/90)
In article <90150.063514DANSEGLI@UCF1VM.BITNET> DANSEGLI@UCF1VM.BITNET (Mike Danseglio) writes:
#>What is the current story about the new low-end Macs? What processors
#>are they gonna run? What prices will they enter at? And, most
#>importantly, when will they be released?
#>
#>Mike.
#>#
I don't think any of this is public knowledge yet. Apple has
promised a cheap color Mac which will run Apple II software
(thus answering the demands of the school market) will be
available by the end of the next school year. That promise
was made by Sculley on a video. The June MacWorld has an
article, including an interview with someone at Apple, on
the coming low-cost Macs (there may be other models, too),
but there are no specifics. MacWorld editorializes that there
should be a cheap 68030 Mac with minimum 2 megs of memory;
the implication is that Apple is likely to sell a 68000 with
1 meg instead. MacWorld argues that such a 68030/2-meg Mac
should sell for what the Plus does now. Apple's attitude in
the interview, by the way, is that Apple feels no obligation
to compete with IBM clones in price since the Mac buyer is
getting a superior product. MacWorld mentions that the chairperson
of T/Maker (whom you would think wouldn't need to worry about
price) has an IBM clone at home because of the price
differential.
Steve Goldfieldgft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (06/01/90)
In article <1990May31.164019.28906@agate.berkeley.edu>, steve@violet.berkeley.edu (Steve Goldfield) writes... >but there are no specifics. MacWorld editorializes that there >should be a cheap 68030 Mac with minimum 2 megs of memory; >the implication is that Apple is likely to sell a 68000 with >1 meg instead. MacWorld argues that such a 68030/2-meg Mac >should sell for what the Plus does now. Apple's attitude in MacWorld is so bogus. How 'bout an '040 Mac with 32 Megs for the price of a toaster? Look, how much is the '030 chipset? $250? $350? How about 2 megs of RAM? Maybe $100. OK, we're already up to around $400 or so. Add in the price of the display ("Apple must have color to compete with cheap clones"), all the other hardware (and there is a fair amount), labor in putting the thing together, shipping the box from Singapore or wherever, and you're probably up to around $800 at least. Probably more. And that's just the variable costs. And that's supposed to sell for the price of a Plus??? Get real. What Apple will probably do: make a B/W 68000 model (please let it be 16Mhz!) to replace the Plus and sell it for about $1000 retail. And there will also be a 68020 or 68030 color model for $2000-2500. That's more likely. Robert ============================================================================ = gft_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu * generic disclaimer: * "It's more fun to = = * all my opinions are * compute" = = * mine * -Kraftwerk = ============================================================================
consp22@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Darren Handler) (06/01/90)
|>>but there are no specifics. MacWorld editorializes that there |>>should be a cheap 68030 Mac with minimum 2 megs of memory; |>>the implication is that Apple is likely to sell a 68000 with |>>1 meg instead. MacWorld argues that such a 68030/2-meg Mac |>>should sell for what the Plus does now. Apple's attitude in |> |> |>MacWorld is so bogus. How 'bout an '040 Mac with 32 Megs for the price of a |>toaster? |> |> |>What Apple will probably do: make a B/W 68000 model (please let it be 16Mhz!) |>to replace the Plus and sell it for about $1000 retail. And there will also be |>a 68020 or 68030 color model for $2000-2500. That's more likely. To the best of my knowlege, and of my sources, the new Mac, called the 'Headless Mac' by some will be a 16 Mhz 68000 with one drive and built in video. It will also have Apple II compatribiltity. It will most likely look like an SE with the top (monitor area) cut off. You then add the monitor of choice. What those will be I don't know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Consp22@Bingsuns.pod.binghamton.edu | SUNY-B Computer Consultants - | | Consp22@Bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu | Trying to keep the world safe from | |---------------------------------------| the SUNY-B Computer users. | | Consultant/Techie - World Computers |-------------------------------------| | Computer Cons. - SUNY Binghamton | Darren `Mac Hack' Handler | |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------| I don't know if I am going to heaven or hell, I just hope God grades on a curve