cschamau@csm9a.UUCP (T AD) (06/07/90)
Does anyone know of a way to run DOS programs on the Macintosh? We'd prefer a software solution as opposed to adding a board. Here's the situation: Due to the recent drop in Mac educational prices our bookstore would rather recommend Macs than IBMs to the incoming students. However, the majority of machines on campus are still PCs or compatibles (the ratio IS changing) especially among the faculty. Thus, several faculty members would like to offer a course with a particular DOS program. We'd like to offer the students a way to run it on their Mac if that's their machine of choice. Could someone out there please offer solutions? Thanks in advance, Connie Connie Schamaun Colorado School of Mines cschamau@csm9a.Mines.Colorado.EDU
thompson@SRC.Honeywell.COM (Todd Thompson) (06/08/90)
: Does anyone know of a way to run DOS programs on the Macintosh? We'd prefer : a software solution as opposed to adding a board. There is a software package called SoftPC, but I'm afraid I don't know the vendor or much more about it. I haven't used it myself, but know someone who has. They have run it on IIX's. I don't know if it will run on SE's. Boy, when I read this I'm not being of much help!!! That's all I know. Todd
tomr@ashtate (Tom Rombouts) (06/09/90)
In article <2185@csm9a.UUCP> cschamau@csm9a.UUCP (T AD) writes: > > Does anyone know of a way to run DOS programs on the Macintosh? We'd prefer >a software solution as opposed to adding a board. As much as I hate to admit knowing anything about Mac's (what if my freinds found out?) the Mac program Soft PC does a fine job of running DOS software, but of course, at a slower speed. There is at least one other emulation package, but my sources have indicated that Soft PC seems more reliable. Now let's return to discussing REAL computers..... :-) Tom Rombouts Torrance Techie Voice: (213) 538-7108
jimvons@ashtate (Jim von Schmacht) (06/09/90)
Yeah...REAL computers he says...:-)
I just happen to be running under Windows 3.0 on my handy dandy PS/2 80
which is basically a mac emulator and it achieves about same performance
as softpc...hows that for cosmic parity....:-)
Please! No intercompany Holy wars! *Duck*
--
Jim von Schmacht Senior Member, Project Test Staff Ashton Tate Corporation
Disclaimer: Standard Issue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It isn't the years - it's the mileage" -Indiana Jonesac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (C. Irby)) (06/09/90)
In article <980@ashton.UUCP>, jimvons@ashtate (Jim von Schmacht) writes: > Yeah...REAL computers he says...:-) > > I just happen to be running under Windows 3.0 on my handy dandy PS/2 80 > which is basically a mac emulator and it achieves about same performance > as softpc...hows that for cosmic parity....:-) > > Please! No intercompany Holy wars! *Duck* > OK, I'm gonna run a raffle... winner gets to kill him... :) 5 bucks a ticket... C Irby
RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Rob Pickering *******) (06/09/90)
SoftPC,
SoftPC is a software based IBM emulator for the Macintosh.
It emulates an intel 8088 chip, CGA graphics, mouse, and other important DOS
type stuff. You MUST have a minimum of 2 megabytes of RAM to run the
emulator, and it will run on any machine except the MacPlus, I believe.
There is also an AT extension you can buy which will emulate an intel 80286,
and EGA graphics, it runs about 50% faster than the standard XT version.
I'm currently running the XT version and have had no problems at all running
IBM software, if you have a machine with the SuperDrive, SoftPC will let it
be an A: drive and you can just put standard MS-DOS 3.5" disks into the drive
just as if it was a PS/2.
The software is made by Insignia and runs right around $250, I think.
Hope this helped.
-Robjohn@newave.UUCP (John A. Weeks III) (06/09/90)
In article <978@ashton.UUCP> tomr@ashton.UUCP (Tom Rombouts) writes: > In article <2185@csm9a.UUCP> cschamau@csm9a.UUCP (T AD) writes: > > Does anyone know of a way to run DOS programs on the Macintosh? > > We'd prefer a software solution as opposed to adding a board. This might be a stupid question, but why bother? You can go to Radio Shack and buy a DOS machine for $299 and not have to worry about all of the problems you might other wise run into trying to make one screwball machine pretend to be another screwball computer, not to mention the possible speed differences and the problem of keeping all of the pieces running on compatible versions of software. I'm sure that any software or board solution is going to cost more than the corresponding PC hardware. There are pleanty of low cost DOS compatible machines that are reliable. I must have missed something here... 8-) -john- -- =============================================================================== John A. Weeks III (612) 942-6969 john@newave.mn.org NeWave Communications ...uunet!rosevax!bungia!wd0gol!newave!john ===============================================================================
omh@cs.brown.edu (Owen M. Hartnett) (06/10/90)
A couple of things I don't like about SoftPC (besides the fact that it's slow, however, the AT-EGA option make it livable but not tremendous): There's currently no way to format a 720K diskette using the SuperDrive so that it's bootable under DOS. I've called the company and they've conceded this. So, if you need to produce bootable 720K disks, you have to copy them from other bootable 720K disks. Here's another one that bothers me, although it should be easy to fix: If you have the SuperDrive *and* the Apple 5.25" drive, you can't have one drive be drive a: and the other be drive b: -- you can only use one drive at a time (plus the hard disk that softPC builds for you). Otherwise, it does a pretty neat job and is great for transferring files from IBM to Mac realm. I've even been prowling the nets looking for PD and shareware software for IBM just to check it out. -Owen . Owen Hartnett omh@cs.brown.edu.CSNET Brown University Computer Science omh@cs.brown.edu uunet!brunix!omh "Don't wait up for me tonight because I won't be home for a month."
ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu (C. Irby)) (06/11/90)
In article <417@newave.UUCP>, john@newave.UUCP (John A. Weeks III) writes: > In article <978@ashton.UUCP> tomr@ashton.UUCP (Tom Rombouts) writes: >> In article <2185@csm9a.UUCP> cschamau@csm9a.UUCP (T AD) writes: >> > Does anyone know of a way to run DOS programs on the Macintosh? >> > We'd prefer a software solution as opposed to adding a board. > > This might be a stupid question, but why bother? You can go > to Radio Shack and buy a DOS machine for $299 and not have to > worry about all of the problems you might other wise run into > trying to make one screwball machine pretend to be another > screwball computer, not to mention the possible speed differences > and the problem of keeping all of the pieces running on compatible > versions of software. I'm sure that any software or board solution > is going to cost more than the corresponding PC hardware. There > are pleanty of low cost DOS compatible machines that are reliable. > > I must have missed something here... 8-) > > -john- You missed several things... 1) They might have limited space. Adding another CPU to many offices would cause problems. 2) Some businesses have weird policies about what can and can't be bought- an extra computer might be against the rules... 3) For $299, you're gonna get a pretty lousy computer- and for the same price plus about $130 more, you can add an extra meg of RAM to the Mac and buy a software emulator- if they're running a Mac II- series machine, they might even go for a 286 emulator. 4) When you have it all on one CPU, you don't have to sweat file exchanges. And I *know* I missed a few reasons... Like we have more luck formatting 3.5" diskettes for MS-DOS drives on my Mac SE FDHD... the MS-DOS drives around here are pretty shabby... C Irby ac08@vaxb.acs.unt.edu ac08@untvax
ernst@convex.com (Daniel Ernst) (06/11/90)
>This might be a stupid question, but why bother? You can go >to Radio Shack and buy a DOS machine for $299 and not have to >worry about all of the problems you might other wise run into >trying to make one screwball machine pretend to be another >screwball computer, not to mention the possible speed differences >and the problem of keeping all of the pieces running on compatible >versions of software. I'm sure that any software or board solution >is going to cost more than the corresponding PC hardware. There >are pleanty of low cost DOS compatible machines that are reliable. >I must have missed something here... 8-) >-john- I can think of several reasons to use a program like SoftPC on a Mac instead of buying a Radio Shack DOS machine: First; SoftPC can be purchased for $299.00. Second; SoftPC emulates an XT with CGA color capabilities. Since I have a MAC II with color this worked out nicely. Buying a Color monitor for the Radio Shack would certainly increase the price above $299.00 Third; SoftPC can run under multifinder. This is nice because I can have word processors and other applications running. Its nice to cut and paste from the DOS applications (running under SoftPC) to and from MAC applications. This capability saved bucks because I did not have to purchase a word processor for the DOS machine. Fourth; Takes up less desk space. There are disadvantages as well but I will not list them (unless someone wants to hear them). Dan Ernst SQA Convex Computer Corporation
gchow@ipsa.reuter.com (george chow) (06/13/90)
In article <90160.091715RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET> RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Rob Pickering *******) writes: >SoftPC, > > SoftPC is a software based IBM emulator for the Macintosh. >It emulates an intel 8088 chip, CGA graphics, mouse, and other important DOS >type stuff. You MUST have a minimum of 2 megabytes of RAM to run the >emulator, and it will run on any machine except the MacPlus, I believe. SoftPC requires a PMMU equipped Mac. So, an upgraded II or any of the II* machine will run it. The SE/30 will also do it since it is essentially a IIx. George Chow
RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Rob Pickering *******) (06/15/90)
The SE/30 is essentially a IIcx. It has nothing in common with the IIx
except the name Macintosh. The IIx does not have a 68030 motorola chip
it has a 68020. Any how sorry to jump on you, it's just I paid good
money for my SE/30 and am getting tired of the fact that people don't realize
that you can have a color IIcx running in your home for less money than the
actual IIcx, since the SE/30 with a color monitor is cheaper. You just have
to give up those 3 nubus slots.
-Robbroe@plains.UUCP (Paul Broe) (06/16/90)
In article <90166.085822RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET> RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Rob Pickering *******) writes: >The SE/30 is essentially a IIcx. It has nothing in common with the IIx > >except the name Macintosh. The IIx does not have a 68030 motorola chip > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >it has a 68020. Any how sorry to jump on you, it's just I paid good ^^^^^ WRONG! The Mac II has the 68020. EVERY Mac IIx (and every Mac II*) since the original Mac II has used the 68030. Just clearing up a mistake. -- |---------------------signature version 3.7----------------------------------| | "I have seen my next computer, and it is the Amiga 3000." - me | | MS-DOS... ick! Waiting for system 7.0 <broe@plains.nodak.edu> | | hp 15c -> 41cx -> 48sx Apple //c -> SE (coming soon?) Amiga 3000 |
barr@Apple.COM (Ron Barr) (06/16/90)
RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Rob Pickering *******) writes: >The SE/30 is essentially a IIcx. It has nothing in common with the IIx > > > > > > > > > -Rob I hate to disagree with you, Rob, but the IIx, IIcx and the SE/30 are all basically the same computer. The all use the 68030 and have virtually the same ROMs. The differences are that the IIx has six slots, the IIcx has 3 slots and a smaller footprint, and the SE/30 has one customer slot and a built-in 9-inch monitor. I do agree with you that the SE/30 can be easily configured as a nice color machine. We have CAD companies that use the SE/30 because they can attach a large color monitor and use it for their graphics, and then they use the nine-inch monitor for control functions. Ron
c60a-3hu@web-2a.berkeley.edu (Howard Jones) (06/16/90)
In article <1990Jun12.201535.1272@ipsa.reuter.com> gchow@itcyyz.UUCP (george chow) writes: >In article <90160.091715RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET> RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Rob Pickering *******) writes: >>SoftPC, >> >> SoftPC is a software based IBM emulator for the Macintosh. >>It emulates an intel 8088 chip, CGA graphics, mouse, and other important DOS The EGA/AT option allows the program to emulate an 286-based PC AT with EGA and LIM. Strangely, it's about 40% faster and the program file is only about half as big as the original! That shows that the original is not too optimized >>type stuff. You MUST have a minimum of 2 megabytes of RAM to run the >>emulator, and it will run on any machine except the MacPlus, I believe. I think the figure is closer to 2.5MB depending on the inits etc that you use > >SoftPC requires a PMMU equipped Mac. So, an upgraded II or any of the II* >machine will run it. The SE/30 will also do it since it is essentially a IIx. > NO! SoftPC doesn't call for a PMMU. All it cares is that you need to have at least a 68020. So anything from a Mac II to an SE/30 or even Pluses and SEs with accelerators will work.
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (06/16/90)
In article <90166.085822RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET> RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Rob Pickering *******) writes: >The SE/30 is essentially a IIcx. It has nothing in common with the IIx >except the name Macintosh. The IIx does not have a 68030 motorola chip >it has a 68020. Any how sorry to jump on you, it's just I paid good >money for my SE/30 and am getting tired of the fact that people don't realize >that you can have a color IIcx running in your home for less money than the >actual IIcx, since the SE/30 with a color monitor is cheaper. You just have >to give up those 3 nubus slots. None of this is really accurate. The SE30 is close to a IIcx, but has no Nubus slots, and one processor slot. The Mac II has the 020, the IIx has a 030 just like the SE30, but with 6 Nubus slots. The rest of your statements about a color IIcx for less an a IIcx makes even less sense. If you were trying to compare pricing of a IIcx to an SE30 with color, the IIcx would probably be cheaper, since video cards for the SE30 are not cheap at all. I suggest you carefully review your posts before sending... -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
RP1VOPER@MIAMIU.BITNET (Rob Pickering *******) (06/16/90)
Okay,
I really blew it coming down on the IIx, it DOES have a 68030. I'm sorry
for all of the offended IIx users out there. Please, if you want to flame
me e-mail me, don't clutter up the network with it. That way I can also
just throw the articles away.
Again, I don't know what I was thinking about, all the machines with an
'x' postfix are '030 machines. Guess I'm just jealous that Apple
didn't make my machine a SE/x or SEx. Oh, well, again, please pardon my
jumping the gun and lack of intelligence.
-Rob
p.s. I do know something about Macs, they're better than IBMshirchert@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Kurt Hirchert) (06/16/90)
In article <2689@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) writes: > If you were trying to compare pricing of > a IIcx to an SE30 with color, the IIcx would probably be cheaper, > since video cards for the SE30 are not cheap at all. I suggest you > carefully review your posts before sending... I believe you can buy one of the Micom color video cards for the SE/30 for around $500. Last time I looked, the difference between the cost of an SE/30 and the cost of a IIcx system unit+video card was a great deal more than that, especially since the recent price cuts on compact Macs. You might want to take your own advice. -- Kurt W. Hirchert hirchert@ncsa.uiuc.edu National Center for Supercomputing Applications
awessels@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Allen Wessels) (06/16/90)
In article <2689@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) writes: > makes even less sense. If you were trying to compare pricing of > a IIcx to an SE30 with color, the IIcx would probably be cheaper, > since video cards for the SE30 are not cheap at all. I suggest you The difference between the price of the Nubus color cards and the 030 Direct Slot version isn't greater than the difference in price between the cx and the SE/30. If adding a single color monitor is all you're gonna need, the SE/30 isn't a bad way to go. > carefully review your posts before sending... :-)
c60a-3hu@e260-1g.berkeley.edu (Howard Jones) (06/17/90)
In article <1990Jun15.212448.4850@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> hirchert@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Kurt Hirchert) writes: >In article <2689@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM> ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) writes: >> If you were trying to compare pricing of >> a IIcx to an SE30 with color, the IIcx would probably be cheaper, >> since video cards for the SE30 are not cheap at all. I suggest you >> carefully review your posts before sending... > >I believe you can buy one of the Micom color video cards for the SE/30 for >around $500. Last time I looked, the difference between the cost of an SE/30 I think it's being sold for around $350
hammersslammers1@oxy.edu (David J. Harr) (06/17/90)
Rob Pickering says: >The SE/30 is essentially a IIcx. It has nothing in common with the IIx >except the name Macintosh. The IIx does not have a 68030 motorola chip >it has a 68020. I don't know where you have been for the last 3 years, but a Mac IIx has a 68030, the Mac IIx ROMs, the Mac IIcx ROMs, and the SE/30 ROMs are all functionally identical (except for very minor differences relating to the fact that a IIx has 6 NuBus slots, the IIcx has 3 NuBus slots, and the SE/30 has a direct slot.) The only Mac with a 68020 is a Mac II. David
hac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Henry A. Chandler) (06/18/90)
Actually, SoftPC can be run by any machine in the mac family. All it depends on is which version you get. SoftPC for the 68000 chips such as the Plus, SE and any machine of higher ilk can be run on SoftPC for the portable v1.3. This gives the user a machine that emulates an 8088 XT compatible and run most IBM products (graphics are supported up to CGA), the wants of most however, make the demand for a faster, better upgrade for the 68030 family. So there is a program called SoftPC for the SE/30 and macII family. This program emulates a 286 AT machine (with module) and supports up to EGA graphics in a faster environment. The memmory managment for the two programs are as follows: 738K min. for the SoftPC/protable depending on amount between 738K and 1700K will give the user 256-640K of memmory (non-expandable). 1700K- whatever limit your machine holds for the SoftPC/ SE/30 version ( not positive on the numbers for this version, will welcome any confirmation on info. ) 640K, most likely expandable memmory. both run around $250 in most mail order companies such as MacConnection and MacWarehouse. $450 in most computer stores and $300 at most of your software specialty stores, such as Egghead, Software Etc. Henry
hac@topaz.rutgers.edu (Henry A. Chandler) (06/18/90)
Wrong! Sorry, but the IIx has the 030 chip inside as well as the MC68882 floating point coprocessor as the SE/30 and all other mac II machines *except* for the macII which has the 020 chip and the older MC68881 coprocessor chip (reason for its death at apple). BTW, don't think I'm pounding on you for no reason, just like you, I own an SE/30 and feel that it is a good little machine, but I cannot let the incorrect info on the specs of a machine go by like you could not like another to put down the SE/30 in view of incorrect information. Henry