jfw@cello.mc.duke.edu (John Whitehead) (06/27/90)
In article <9664.268769e4@amherst.bitnet> amherasimchu@amherst.bitnet writes: >We are looking into making the technical support we offer a package about to be >released as a 1-900 number. Instead of charging a flat fee for a year's worth >of support for the product, the user can call up the 1-900 number anytime they >need help. > >The pros I see of this are: > 1) Not being charged an exuberant amount of money for something which >you might only use three or four times. > 2) Flexibility in the company to manage cost of technical support based >on Time used on the phone, versus the amount of calls we recieve. This would >determine charge for every minute. > 3) Cuts long distance charges as an extra added fee to the technical >support for users. > >Any ideas on this? Want do you think about a 1-900 number for technical >support? > >Andrei Herasimchuk I don't like it, because I had an annoying experience with it a couple of weeks ago. I was having a printer compatibility problem with my Zenith-supplied MS-DOS 3.3+ that I wasn't having with my IBM-DOS 4.0. After three or four calls to Zenith, I realized they couldn't help and I needed to talk to Microsoft. I called their 800 number, which referred me to a Washington State number. After several minutes of a long-distance call to their computer, pressing 1 for IBM support, 3 for system help, 2 for DOS help, etc., it finally told me I had to call a 900 number at $2.00 a minute. So I called the 900 DOS support number. The guy who answered said, "I'm not that familiar with that version of DOS," even though it is the most recent version available for Zeniths. Meanwhile I was trying to explain the problem to him as quickly as possible, since at two dollars a minute I didn't want to waste any time. After a couple of more minutes of him making suggestions that I knew were inappropriate since I had already tried them, I hung up. It annoys me any time a support person knows less than I do about their product, but when I'm paying $2 a minute it is more upsetting. 1) I think an 800 number is wonderful if you have the staff and money to support it. If you get too many calls from people asking stupid questions for things already documented, maybe you shouldn't have it. "The customer comes first" and this is the nicest way to do it, though it can be expensive. 2) A normal long-distance call is not a bad second. The company doesn't pay for it, so the only expense is staff. The customer does pay something, so they won't call *too* much, but it is not unreasonable. 3) I think a 900 number should be the last choice. Although it brings in revenue, it is irritating to be put on the spot to pay so much for a call for help. If you can charge a very small amount (25 cents/min.) it wouldn't be bad, but charging a lot, like Microsoft, is awful. I think Lotus has a good system. When you buy one of their products, you are given a code number. From the first time you call their 800 number, you have six months of free technical support. After that (until you buy another product or get an upgrade) you can call their standard (long- distance) number. That seems to me to be a good compromise. John Whitehead Internet: jfw@neuro.neuro.duke.edu Department of Neurobiology jfw@cello.cellbio.duke.edu Duke University Medical Center jfw@well.sf.ca.us Durham, North Carolina Bitnet: white002@dukemc
russ@convex.COM (Russell Donnan) (06/28/90)
In article <9664.268769e4@amherst.bitnet> amherasimchu@amherst.bitnet writes: >I have a question that we have been debating concerning Technical Support: > >We are looking into making the technical support we offer a package about to be >released as a 1-900 number. Instead of charging a flat fee for a year's worth >of support for the product, the user can call up the 1-900 number anytime they >need help. In general, I would like to see software support be completely unbundled from the original purchase price of the software. Let the market force the software companies to produce good manuals and easy to use software. The company offers different levels of suppport which can be purchased with the package originally, or later on if needed. I like the idea of the pay-by-usage that you are proposing with your 900 number. The reason I like this idea is that I very rarely use such support, and I don't want to pay for something I'm not using. In a perfect world, this is exactly the system I would like to have. You mentioned in your post some of the up side to the 900 idea. Let me state (the obvious) some of the caveats: 1) Software companies (as well as HW) buget income for support. Suppose it wasn't as high as they wanted (needed?) The best thing to do in this case is to make the software package more difficult to use. I can think of some software that is needlessly difficult to use already, I can't even imagine what it would be like if it was deliberately so. 2) Employees of "frugal" employers may feel that they cannot use this support method because it is too costly. Your software would then fall into dis-favor with this company, and they would buy something else, which may in the long run be more expensive. The difference is that the employee looks better in the eyes of their boss, or they believe that they do. 3) For site support at a large company or institution, a software company would typically have one individual contact. With the 900 number, it is conceivable that more than one person from the same site could ask the same question. Good for the software company, very bad for the customer. In essence, I would like the "flat fee for a year's worth of support" to be available as well as the 900 number. The customer makes the choice based upon their needs. -- Russ Donnan, (214) 497-4778, russ@convex.com Convex Computer Corporation, 3000 Waterview Parkway, Richardson, TX -"To capture the essence of an opinion takes but one lawyer."
nolan@tssi.UUCP (Michael Nolan) (06/29/90)
If:
1. You provide 60-90 days initial 'free' support
2. You answer the 900 line right away, no voice mail or recordings
3. You staff the line with people who know the answers
4. You call back for more complicated situation, especially those involving
the tracing of previously unreported bugs
5. You cut your list prices by about half
Then, I'd consider a 900 number as tolerable support. Otherwise, I'll buy
from other vendors.
As I understand it, you have to have a lot of calls daily for a 900 number to
make sense (like over 500??) I suppose 900 support is coming, whether I like
it or not, as the microcomputer industry grows up. The problem is, my computer
thinks it's Peter Pan, and I continually have my programs going off to Never-
Never Land.kucharsk@number6.Solbourne.COM (William Kucharski) (06/29/90)
In article <103452@convex.convex.com> russ@convex.COM (Russell Donnan) writes: >I like the idea of the pay-by-usage that you are proposing with your >900 number. The reason I like this idea is that I very rarely use >such support, and I don't want to pay for something I'm not using. In >a perfect world, this is exactly the system I would like to have. Uh, what about the many times I've called tech support at a particular company and have been put on hold (all our technical support staff are busy; please hold and the first available support person will answer your call in the order it was received) for 30 minutes or more. At $.50-$2.00/minute this adds up quite quickly. Add to this the caveat that most companies block 900 numbers from being dialed from their phone systems, and you've got a problem. -- =============================================================================== | Internet: kucharsk@Solbourne.COM | William Kucharski | | uucp: ...!{boulder,sun,uunet}!stan!kucharsk | Solbourne Computer, Inc. | = The opinions above are mine alone and NOT those of Solbourne Computer, Inc. =
cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) (06/29/90)
amherasimchu@amherst.bitnet writes: >I have a question that we have been debating concerning Technical Support: >We are looking into making the technical support we offer a package about to be >released as a 1-900 number. Instead of charging a flat fee for a year's worth >of support for the product, the user can call up the 1-900 number anytime they >need help. >Any ideas on this? Want do you think about a 1-900 number for technical >support? Please post the name of the product that this idea will be used for, so I can save your distributor the expense of returning the product unpaid. (To put it a bit more bluntly, I refuse to purchase a product for which I have to pay for tech support, in addition to the price of the product. Should I discover that I have accidently purchased such a product, I return it.) Consider: If tech support is a profit center for the company, what motive does the company have to build a good UI, or write good documentation? (Do I need to point out their motives for not doing this?) +C -- Cory Kempf I do speak for the company (sometimes). Three Letter Company 603 883 2474 email: cory@three.mv.com, harvard!zinn!three!cory
KPURCELL@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (06/29/90)
Why don't more companies use e-mail for support. It seems a more sensible way to deal with a large number of customers. Pros: 1. The customer only has to write out his request. The need do this only once and can spend some time getting a good description. Perhaps the company could provide them with a proforma bug report on the distrition disks. 2. A series of simple generic replies to simple problems can be kept and given out as needed. This should save some of User Supports time. 3. Complex problems can easily be passed (with the full description of the problem) to the people who wrote the program. This is much easier than either TS having to tell the programmers or the customer having to explain the problem repeatedly to different people. 4. It must be cheaper for both customer and the company. Turnaround time for bug reports can be improved through e-mail and the load spread throughout the day (I would imagine TS gets more calls just before lunch and in mid-afternoon than early in the morning. cons: 1. It assumes your customer can use and has access to e-mail! Can most people mail to mci-mail and compuserve (from other commerical services, UUCP, Internet and other international networks). I generally send a fax or e-mail than trying to talk to people on the phone. A lot TS I have spoken too know less than I do about their product, and trans-atlantic calls are expensive. A fax can be passed around. Perhaps a mix of services is best? FAX, e-mail and regular phone? Give preference to e-mail! Kevin Purcell ................................... kpurcell @ liverpool.ac.uk \ Surface Science \ Stepwise Refinement n. A sequence of kludges K, \ Liverpool University \ neither distinct or finite, applied to a program P \ Liverpool L69 3BX \ aimed at transforming it into the target program Q.
daf@cs.brown.edu (David A. Fedor) (06/30/90)
In article <384@three.MV.COM> cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) writes: >>We are looking into making the technical support we offer a package about >>to be released as a 1-900 number. >Please post the name of the product that this idea will be used for, >so I can save your distributor the expense of returning the product >unpaid. >(To put it a bit more bluntly, I refuse to purchase a product for which >I have to pay for tech support, in addition to the price of the product. >Should I discover that I have accidently purchased such a product, I return >it.) What???? Excuse me? I think one of the basic points of this discussion is that tech support costs money, which has to be reimbursed through the price of the software package. The idea of the 1-900 number is to LOWER the price of the basic package, while being able to charge only the people who actually use the tech support. Tech support people need to be payed! The money had to come from somewhere... we're trying to find a way that people who DON'T need tech support won't have to pay for the people who do. (Very much like communism vs democracy! :-) >+C >-- >Cory Kempf I do speak for the company (sometimes). >Three Letter Company 603 883 2474 >email: cory@three.mv.com, harvard!zinn!three!cory -Dave daf@cs.brown.edu
amherasimchu@amherst.bitnet (06/30/90)
In article <DAF.90Jun29131357@betty.cs.brown.edu>, daf@cs.brown.edu (David A. Fedor) writes: >>(To put it a bit more bluntly, I refuse to purchase a product for which >>I have to pay for tech support, in addition to the price of the product. >>Should I discover that I have accidently purchased such a product, I return >>it.) > > What???? Excuse me? I think one of the basic points of this discussion is > that tech support costs money, which has to be reimbursed through the price > of the software package. The idea of the 1-900 number is to LOWER the price > of the basic package, while being able to charge only the people who actually > use the tech support. > > Tech support people need to be payed! The money had to come from somewhere... > we're trying to find a way that people who DON'T need tech support won't > have to pay for the people who do. (Very much like communism vs democracy! :-) Thank you, Dave. Tech support people have to be at their terminals ready to calls at any time. I cannot hire personnel to be secretaries, salesmen, and tech support all for the same salary. It just doesn't happen. It's bad enough that most companies put you on hold forever and a day, much less have their tech people doe more than one job. >>Cory Kempf I do speak for the company (sometimes). >>Three Letter Company 603 883 2474 >>email: cory@three.mv.com, harvard!zinn!three!cory > -Dave > daf@cs.brown.edu ________________________ Andrei Herasimchuk Disclaimer: Marketing Director These are my opinions. Please Specular Int'l don't repeat them to my boss 'cause he hears them everyday already! bitnet: amherasimchu@amherst snail: P.O. Box 888, Amherst, MA 01004-0888 413.256.3166
cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) (07/03/90)
amherasimchu@amherst.bitnet writes: >In article <DAF.90Jun29131357@betty.cs.brown.edu>, daf@cs.brown.edu (David A. Fedor) writes: >>>(To put it a bit more bluntly, I refuse to purchase a product for which >>>I have to pay for tech support, in addition to the price of the product. >>>Should I discover that I have accidently purchased such a product, I return >>>it.) >> >> What???? Excuse me? I think one of the basic points of this discussion is >> that tech support costs money, which has to be reimbursed through the price >> of the software package. I agree. Support does cost money. That money in general comes from the price of the product. (TANSTAAFL) >> The idea of the 1-900 number is to LOWER the price >> of the basic package, while being able to charge only the people who actually >> use the tech support. Would it really? Or would it just lead to software being sold for the same prices as they already are, but with the added problem that the software companies now no longer have any incentive to provide a good UI, online help, good documentation, etc? In fact, under this scheme, the company would have an incentive to NOT provide such. After all, if tech support becomes a profit center, it would soon occur to someone to produce a product with LOADS of really great features (so the Review looks good), and a very poor manual. Three months later, when the user is ready to play with some of the more obscure features/combinations... Designing and Developing a GOOD user interface costs time and money. Producing a good manual is also an expensive proposition. I have yet to see a review of a product that covered documentation and tech support. I would expect that a product produced under these guidelines could sell very well. >> Tech support people need to be payed! The money had to come from somewhere... Yes. But not as an "Add-On". It is not. To put it another way, why should I have to pay to be able to USE your product, after I have purchased it? Why should I have to pay more because YOU (the product developer) did not write an addiquate on-line help system? Or Manual? >> we're trying to find a way that people who DON'T need tech support won't >> have to pay for the people who do. (Very much like communism vs democracy! :-) No. What I see is that you are trying to justify turning tech support costs into a profit center, as opposed to a penalty for poor design or bad trade off decisions. >Thank you, Dave. Tech support people have to be at their terminals ready to >calls at any time. I cannot hire personnel to be secretaries, salesmen, and >tech support all for the same salary. It just doesn't happen. I don't expect it to. I do, however expect that the price for poor engineering come out of your pocket, not mine (at least not as a hidden charge) >It's bad enough that most companies put you on hold forever and a day, much >less have their tech people do more than one job. So what is to stop them from doing this anyhow (and collecting money for it)? or do you really expect them to be able to answer your quention right off ("Just hold on a minute while I transfer you... ring... ring... ring...") And just wait until someone comes up with the scheme of copy protection via a tech support password (e.g. call tech support and if you are a registered user, we will give you a password good for the next six months) No Thanks. I develop software for a living. When I am designing the interface, I spend a lot of time designing and working with tech support to try to make it so that people will not need to call them. How am would I be able to convince management to make the trade off (time to market v. fewer tech support calls) when the Tech Support division was responsible for 10% of our profit last year????? If that is the way things are going to go, I would rather see the (not) FSF approach win. At least that way, I would have a chance at getting my problem solved (rather than explaining my problem for the fifth time to some flunky). +C -- Cory Kempf I do speak for the company (sometimes). Three Letter Company 603 883 2474 email: cory@three.mv.com, harvard!zinn!three!cory
jfw@cello.mc.duke.edu (John Whitehead) (07/05/90)
In article <387@three.MV.COM> cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) writes: >And just wait until someone comes up with the scheme of copy protection >via a tech support password (e.g. call tech support and if you are a >registered user, we will give you a password good for the next six months) Lotus already does this: a password is included in the package when you buy it, is activated the first time you use it, and is good for six months. >No Thanks. Actually, I think that is a fair compromise. For the first six months, it is completely free (an 800 number); after that it just a normal toll charge to the phone company (to Boston), though the support is still free. John Whitehead Internet: jfw@neuro.duke.edu Department of Neurobiology jfw@well.sf.ca.us Duke University Medical Center Bitnet: white002@dukemc Durham, North Carolina
schear@ttidca.TTI.COM (Steve Schear) (07/10/90)
For those of you who feel that a particular company has intentionally not written a comprehensive user's guide in order to provide a 900 service number, therby cashing in on the purchaser's plight, I now suggest a nasty (but I believe legal) means of retribution. Call the 900, and indeed have all your friends call this number, and then refuse to pay the phone company. Most all phone companies will deduct the charge from your bill, with little or no pressure (like a wrong number). On the other hand, the company offering the 900 service will be held responsible for the charges your call incurred. In effect generating a negative billing on their otherwise positive account. If enough irate customers do this, then the company offering this 900 scam will soon find that their customer service profit center has turned into a real money looser.