lad@eplrx7.UUCP (Lawrence Dziegielewski) (11/18/87)
I have a major crisis here. One of my Mac II's equipped with an Apple
80 meg hard disk just decided to go south for the winter. The events that
led up to the crash are:
1. We were working in MPW c, (like we always do), and had just finished compiling a program. Quit MPW.
2. Moved our finished application to a floppy.
3. Reboot. (This is where the problem began).
Upon rebooting, the Mac became stuck at the "Welcome to
Macintosh" banner. Since it stayed there for more than
7 minutes, I decided to push the dreaded programmer's
switch.
From then on, whenever the Mac tries to boot, the 'happy mac' shows up for
about 3 or 4 seconds, and then disappears to a blinking ? disk icon.
This is what I tried to do to get it back:
1. Apple HD SC Setup, vers 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 & 1.5
Tried the 'Update' function. HDSC Setup recognizes the
Apple drive at SCSI #2, and successfully updates the
driver, but no boot. (HDSC recoginzes the vol name too).
2. Disk First Aid. Recognizes the volume "Apple 80". I
usually hit the "CNTL-S" so I can see what's going on inside
the program. Disk 1st Aid starts checking the disk, and
always stops after checking the catalog btree with an
"Unable to verify status of disk" error. No dice, no boot.
3. Various and sundry things, including just booting a
floppy, upon which the Mac tells me "This disk is damaged,
Do you want to initialize?" NO!, of course not, my
data is still there!!!
I'm stumped. My data is still on that disk, we don't have a recent backup,
(I know, I know, please, no messages saying "You should back up, I KNOW!),
and I'm in deep poop.
I'm offering a reward for the person who can help me out of this problem.
I'll buy that person a ticket to the SF MacWorld Expo (air fare and hotel
not included).
Thanks in advance for your consideration.
--
Lawrence A. Dziegielewski | E.I. Dupont Co.
{uunet!dgis!psuvax1}!eplrx7!lad | Engineering Physics Lab
Cash-We-Serve 76127,104 | Wilmington, Delaware 19898
MABELL: (302) 695-1311 | Mail Stop: E357-318schmidt@lsrhs.UUCP (Chris Schmidt) (11/20/87)
In article <537@eplrx7.UUCP> lad@eplrx7.UUCP (Lawrence Dziegielewski) writes: >I'm stumped. My data is still on that disk, we don't have a recent backup, >(I know, I know, please, no messages saying "You should back up, I KNOW!), >and I'm in deep poop. Well, I had a similar problem, twice, and solved it both times using two different methods. The first time, the answer was embarrasingly simple. I booted from a floppy while holding command-option in order to rebuild the desktop. Even though I thought everything had been trashed -- and I DID have trouble just like yours -- it worked. The second time, when things degraded even further, I brought the whole friggin' box to the dealer's service center. The folks there were typically ignorant/moronic BUT they had an Apple release (copy protected!) Mac ][ diagnostic disk. It worked! I saved everything and pleaded for a copy of that magic diskette, BUT THEY WOULDN'T LET ME HAVE IT! Apple, why haven't we been given access to this wonderful software? Is this an open machine, or not? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Chris Schmidt/Lincoln-Sudbury High School/390 Lincoln Rd/Sudbury/Ma/01776 (617) 926-3242 -----> mit-caf!lsrhs!schmidt@eddie.mit.edu (And for you, Mr. NSA Line-Eater: drugs, terrorists, Libya, 1984)
hunt@cg-atla.UUCP (11/20/87)
In article <537@eplrx7.UUCP> lad@eplrx7.UUCP (Lawrence Dziegielewski) writes: > >[about DEEP POOP. ] >I'm offering a reward for the person who can help me out of this problem. >I'll buy that person a ticket to the SF MacWorld Expo (air fare and hotel >not included). I have recently had hard disk problems with my Jasmine 80. The solution to recovery of my data was actually quite simple. It is MacZap, from MicroAnalyst in Texas (sold by MacConnection). If there is a utility that can give you access to your data, MacZap will do it. It comes with a badly-written manual, but good telephone support. If you have enough floppies, you can even back up the entire disk from MacZap (the J-80 was about 35% full; it took 38 floppies for me. :-( ) I hope this helps. I'm not expecting the reward, BTW; but e-mail me if it gets you back on line. Walter Hunt Compugraphic Corp. "Those without imagination are either dead, or bureaucrats, or both." -- A. McQuillan
scholz@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM (Carl Scholz) (11/20/87)
In article <537@eplrx7.UUCP> lad@eplrx7.UUCP (Lawrence Dziegielewski) writes: > >I have a major crisis here. One of my Mac II's equipped with an Apple ... >Upon rebooting, the Mac became stuck at the "Welcome to >Macintosh" banner. Since it stayed there for more than >7 minutes, I decided to push the dreaded programmer's >switch. > >From then on, whenever the Mac tries to boot, the 'happy mac' shows up for >about 3 or 4 seconds, and then disappears to a blinking ? disk icon. > >This is what I tried to do to get it back: > > 1. Apple HD SC Setup, vers 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4 & 1.5 > 2. Disk First Aid. Recognizes the volume "Apple 80". I > usually hit the "CNTL-S" so I can see what's going on inside > the program. Disk 1st Aid starts checking the disk, and > always stops after checking the catalog btree with an > "Unable to verify status of disk" error. No dice, no boot. > 3. Various and sundry things, including just booting a > floppy, upon which the Mac tells me "This disk is damaged, > Do you want to initialize?" NO!, of course not, my > data is still there!!! > >I'm stumped. My data is still on that disk, we don't have a recent backup, >(I know, I know, please, no messages saying "You should back up, I KNOW!), >and I'm in deep poop. I have been having the EXACT same problem on my system: Mac 512ke, Sys 5.5, Finder 4.2, with a home-grown 40Meg SCSI drive. The _exact_ same symptoms have happened to me more time than I can count since I've had the drive up and running (about 3 months). Unfortunately, Lawrence, the only solution I've found is to reformat the drive. I learned after the second time, and bought DiskFit ( a great backup utility) and now I RELIGIOUSLY backup everything after each session (usually only about 3-5 minutes to backup). What I have found is that after you boot from a floppy, say NO to "Do you want to initialize". Then I run Disk 1st Aid, although not in "scavenge" mode, and it finds a problem and repairs it. Then I when I quit Disk 1st Aid, the SCSI drive shows up. At this point, it works fine (i.e. for an immediate backup), but the system still won't boot off of it - have to reformat to get that back. Sorry. On occasion, if I wait long enough (although 7 minutes sounded long enough), the drive will actually boot, but as soon as I hit the reset or power-off, I know I'll have to reformat. Hope this helps, although I too would love to hear a good explanation for what is happening and what to fix. -- Carl S. Scholz {scubed,ihnp4,gatech,cbosgd}!ncr-sd!ncrcae!fido!scholz NCR E&M Columbia 3325 Platt Springs Rd., W. Columbia, SC 29169 (803)791-6445 Entry Level Systems Development "There's no dark side of the moon, really, matter of fact, it's all dark._Cint.
wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu (Pierce T. Wetter) (11/21/87)
> various lines describing a hard disk problem.
Things to try.
1. Get the CDEV scsi-status from info-mac and use it to mount the
drive. If it mounts look at it with disktop and see if any
files are there. If so copy the important ones off.
(I have little faith in this working however)
2. Buy the MacZap utilities. This comes with a hard disk recovery
program. Try it.
3. Brute Force: The problem is that your directory is probably trashed.
Not all of it is necessarily trashed, though. If you run through
it with a low-level utility you may be able to read enough
of the directory to discover your data's location on the disk
and copy those sectors to a floppy, and build them into a new
file. Alternativly, you can clear out the sections of the
directory which are trashed, leaving the good portions. This
may limit the number of files you lose.
Good Luck,
Pierce Wetter
I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. There's
a knob called "brightness", but it doesn't work.
-- Gallagher
--------------------------------------------
wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu
--------------------------------------------sbb@esquire.UUCP (Stephen B. Baumgarten) (11/22/87)
In article <1114@cg-atla.UUCP> hunt@cg-atla.UUCP (Walter Hunt X7031) writes: > I have recently had hard disk problems with my Jasmine 80. >The solution to recovery of my data was actually quite simple. It >is MacZap, from MicroAnalyst in Texas (sold by MacConnection). If >there is a utility that can give you access to your data, MacZap >will do it. It comes with a badly-written manual, but good >telephone support. If you have enough floppies, you can even back >up the entire disk from MacZap (the J-80 was about 35% full; it >took 38 floppies for me. :-( ) MacZap is the only way to go when that fatal day comes (and you haven't done a backup in weeks...). However, there's one thing that is not mentioned in the manual and that I found out only after it was too late. MacZap comes with "Parameter" files that describe various different brands of hard disks. These files are used if your disk gets so trashed that the header blocks (the ones that tell the Mac where the first usable sector is, where the directory is, etc.) are erased or munged. Thus, by loading the correct parameter file, you effectively tell MacZap where to look for the directory, file allocation table, etc. This is one of the things that lets MacZap recover disks when other programs give up. MacZap also lets you create a parameter file for your hard disk, since Micro Analyst only provides them for about a dozen different brands. But what they *don't* tell you is that the parameter files they supply aren't always correct. In my case, I had recently reinitialized my Dataframe 20XP with the newest Manager, and this caused some of those parameters to change. When the disk later got trashed (a long, boring story in and of itself), MacZap produced (as always) a perfect directory of every file on the disk and then proceeded to recover garbage for each. Sigh. Upon reformatting, I created a parameter file and compared it to the standard DF 20 file. As you can probably guess, they were different. This is certainly *not* Micro Analyst's fault, but it is something that might happen to other people with Dataframes (or even other brands). Other than this, and the atrocious manual, MacZap is the *best*. Although I couldn't use it that one time, it's never failed me since (although I do backups *much* more regularly now... except I haven't had much time this week, and... :-) ). Hope this helps someone recover some data. Usual disclaimers apply. Your mileage may vary. -- Steve Baumgarten | "New York... when civilization falls apart, Davis Polk & Wardwell | remember, we were way ahead of you." ...!seismo!cmcl2!esquire!sbb | - David Letterman
carlile@trwrb.UUCP (Donald E. Carlile) (11/24/87)
I have used MacZap, and it definitely has a place in my disk recovery repertoire. I am posting this to mention another product worth looking at if you are into recovering disks. I recently got a copy of 1st Aid Kit from 1st Aid Software (42 Radnor Road, Boston, MA 02135). It has already recovered a hard disk which was not appearing for any other program, including MacZap. The manual is excellent. It not only describes how to use the program, it also provides troubleshooting instructions and explanations for why things happen. It comes in MFS and HFS versions. I highly recommend it. Don Carlile DISCLAIMER: I have no relationship to 1st Aid Software except as a satisfied customer. The opinions discussed here are my own, and do not reflect on my employer.
lad@eplrx7.UUCP (Lawrence Dziegielewski) (11/24/87)
Well, I took the advice of several people who replied to my plea for help
and bought Mac Zap. That was the best money I have ever spent on my Mac. I
was able to recover 100% of my files and not one problem. It did take 5
hours of sweating over a hot hard drive, but the time spent was well worth
it. I plan to incorporate Mac Zap into my home library as well.
Hats off to the author of Mac Zap, the best damn utility to ever hit my
desk.
To those who missed my original post, I had just lost my Apple 80SC to a
crash. No reboot. No amount of Disk First Aid or the Apple HD SC Setup
program or anything else for that matter made a difference. On the advice
of the net I bought Mac Zap. Using the HFS recover program and a little
patience with the manual ( Mac Zap's ONLY weak area ) I was able to get ALL
of my files back, INTACT.
Thanks to all who responded to my posting.
--
Lawrence A. Dziegielewski | E.I. Dupont Co.
{uunet!dgis!psuvax1}!eplrx7!lad | Engineering Physics Lab
Cash-We-Serve 76127,104 | Wilmington, Delaware 19898
MABELL: (302) 695-1311 | Mail Stop: E357-318anson@elrond.UUCP (12/04/87)
In article <2785@ncrcae.Columbia.NCR.COM> scholz@ncrcae.UUCP (Carl Scholz) writes: >In article <537@eplrx7.UUCP> lad@eplrx7.UUCP (Lawrence Dziegielewski) writes: >>I have a major crisis here. One of my Mac II's equipped with an Apple >>Upon rebooting, the Mac became stuck at the "Welcome to >>Macintosh" banner. Since it stayed there for more than >>7 minutes, I decided to push the dreaded programmer's >>switch. > Unfortunately, Lawrence, the only solution >I've found is to reformat the drive. I learned after the second time, and >bought DiskFit ( a great backup utility) and now I RELIGIOUSLY backup >everything after each session (usually only about 3-5 minutes to backup). Don't give up yet! I had a similar (though not exactly the same) experience just last night -- though I had a backup. Still, I don't like to reformat a disk when I don't *really* have to. I tried Disk Express. It found some damage in the directory, which I eventually learned was due to my system file getting trashed in a strange way. Anyway, Disk Express corrected the directory so that the disk was usable. After restoring the system file, I was able to boot from the hard disk. I don't know if this will help or not in your case, but it's worth a try. -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM
bparsia@eagle.wesleyan.edu (12/20/89)
I have this problem you see. Fullwrite seems to have randomly trashed some files of mine. I called up tech support (and it was very nice, I am way over my 90 day limit, yet not only did they take my call, they called *me* back [instead of keeping me on hold] as soon as someone was available (20 minutes, max)). The tech support person suggested a utility called (something like) FWSaver, which he would mail or that I could download from the A-Tate BB. However, I'm not a member, and it takes 24 hrs to get set up (though it is free). I need the utility ASAP. Is there anyone out there who either has the utility or could get it that could also email it to me or post it (I don't have an large account) to either News or aim-sumex.stanford.edu? It is a vauge sort of emergency. Thanks. Bijan J. Parsia E-mail: Bparsia@wesleyan.bitnet
ph1c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Peter Nikitas Handrinos) (07/19/90)
I have a MacII, running 6.0.5 I didn't have any problems, and then this. I keep trying to empty this folder. The folder used to have stuff in it, but seems empty. I go to open it and I get the error, "Couldn't be opened , missing or open". When I go to put it in the trash, I cannot empty the trash pretty similar message. The same thing happens when I go to throw out Quick Access from my system folder. The trash cannot be emptied. Can anyone help me? Pete
jennerr@darwin.ntu.edu.au (07/19/90)
In article <Iad_Mn200WB_00nl4V@andrew.cmu.edu>, ph1c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Peter Nikitas Handrinos) writes: > I have a MacII, running 6.0.5 > > I didn't have any problems, and then this. I keep trying to empty this folder. > The folder used to have stuff in it, but seems empty. I go to open it and I get the error, "Couldn't be opened , missing or open". When I go to put it in the trash, I cannot empty the trash pretty similar message. The same thing happens when I go to throw out Quick Access from my system folder. The trash cannot be emptied. > > Can anyone help me? Try this: Selecr the folder, "get Info" (com-I). If the folder is locked, unlock it. If it is not locked, Lock it then unlock it (sounds crazy but it sometimes works) Bob Jenner