Info-Atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU (Info-Atari16 Digest) (12/01/86)
Info-Atari16 Digest Monday, December 1, 1986 Volume 86 : Issue 27
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: STarter Kit clarification
Code launching on the ST
Re: Distribution of ST software on the net
New BBS on line!
Help needed with v_gtext
Re: Help needed with v_gtext
Re: GDOS distribution
Re: Public Domain Midi Software (attn: Pixar)
Re: Hard disks
Re: Help needed with v_gtext
PD dungeon game?
Re: Hard disks
Re: Digests and Usenet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 26 Nov 86 14:39:00 GMT
From: ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!franco@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: STarter Kit clarification
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
If you want to send one disk for netland goodies (and forget about the rest of
the STarter Kit) that is ok with me. Please specify which ones you want
(BTW I have uniterm)
------------------------------
Date: 23 Nov 86 17:21:09 GMT
From: mnetor!genat!maccs!cs4e3bb@seismo.css.gov (Ray Wong)
Subject: Code launching on the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>------------------------------------------------------------------<
I have a question that may be considered trivial by most
however this information does not appear in any tech info I
have read.
When you are writing an assembler program on the ST, as I understand
it, you do not know where the actual run-time address of the program
will be. Therefore much of the techinical literature recommends that
you write relocatable code. However, how do you deal with instructions
such as "jsr $XXXX" ??? Now, I know the 68000 has many PC based
addressing modes, however it seems that you have to go to a lot of
trouble just to calculate the jump address at runtime just for a
subroutine call.
My question is this, does the ST support some sort of runtime loader
that works with your assembler, i.e. does GEMDOS support loader tables
which translate ABSOLUTE locations into their appropriate run-time
addresses??
Also, what EXACTLY is the mechanism used by TOS for launching
a xxx.prg ( xxx-don't care ) from the Desk Top????
(i.e. Where does it load the program, What location of the program
does it begin executing at?? )
.... Thanks in advance for any help
Ray Wong
------------------------------
Date: 22 Nov 86 20:41:31 GMT
From: mnetor!genat!maccs!gordan@seismo.css.gov (Gordan Palameta)
Subject: Re: Distribution of ST software on the net
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <547@uwmacc.UUCP> oyster@uwmacc.UUCP (Vicarious Oyster) writes:
>In article <126@maccs.UUCP> gordan@maccs.UUCP (Gordan Palameta) writes:
>>-------------------------------------------
>>Like many users of the net, I've been frustrated
>>occasionally by garbled reception of uuencoded
>>software...
>
>>What I am wondering is why an alternate means of
>>distributing public domain software created by Usenet
>>users could not be organized. For instance, a large
>>number of programs could be packed on a single floppy
>>disk which could be sent through ordinary *non-electronic*
>>mail.
>>
> I would be willing to be a local distribution node in a distributed
>network, i.e. there would be a person (or two) for each general area of
>the continent who would collect and maintain a set of software, and handle
>requests from people in his/her area. This kind of scheme, if workable
>(and I welcome constructive criticism), should prevent one person from
>burning out from too much work, and would get PD software to people more
>quickly. On the minus side, it would require a bit more work in keeping
>local contact people up to date. However, I think the initial hassle of
>setting up a system like this would be worth it in the long run. Maybe
>we could even get an official seal of approval from Atari as the
>Distributed Atari Software Team and Regional Distributors (DASTARD :-).
>--
>
> - Joel Plutchak
> uucp: {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!oyster
> ARPA: oyster@unix.macc.wisc.edu
> BITNET: plutchak@WISCMACC
> BIX: plutch
Thanks for the responses that have been received on this subject. I am
encouraged so far to think that the idea might be feasible.
I did receive some cautionary advice in e-mail from Allan Pratt warning that
the amount of work involved might be considerable, and suggesting contacting
anyone who may have tried this idea before and possibly given up. So any
advice on this subject either in e-mail or on the net would be welcome. It
would be nice to have some idea of exactly what amount of time and effort
would be involved before proceeding.
Another suggestion from Allan Pratt was that BBSs might be used instead as
a means of obtaining software. There are certainly many bulletin boards all
over the continent and I myself am a user of a number of local ones. However,
most Sysops do not appreciate users who merely download software without
contributing to their message base, considering this to be an abuse of their
system. Nevertheless, for those so inclined, BBSs are a useful resource -- I
was able to find a copy of Uniterm after two net postings were garbled.
Still, there may be a need for another way, for those who might not have
modems or are just casually interested in obtaining software. I would like
to hear some more opinions though before any decision to go ahead.
Gordan Palameta
Usenet: ... { !seismo, !utzoo } !mnetor!genat!maccs!gordan
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 86 05:16:56 GMT
From: trwrb!mdf@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Mark D. Falleroni)
Subject: New BBS on line!
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
There is a new BBS coming on line on Monday, Dec. 1, from 5:30a.m. to
11:00p.m. Mountain Standard Time. I'm running it and would like to talk
to as many netters as possible. Also, I think you'll be pleasantly
suprised by what you find on the board. Give the board a try at
801-479-0738. Nuff said!
Mark Falleroni
If I fail, if I succeed,
at least I'll live as I believe.
...synonymous
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 86 00:51:59 GMT
From: rutgers!clyde!watmath!sunybcs!leo@lll-crg.arpa (Leo Wilson)
Subject: Help needed with v_gtext
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
A friend of mine asked me to post this for her:
I'm writing a scrolling program with Mark Williams C
that uses windows and I'm having a few problems because of
a lack of good documentation. (I'm using The ATARI ST Gem
Programmer's Reference by Abacus)
I'm printing text to the screen using v_gtext and I would
like to show certain lines in reverse video. I have tried setting
the background color to black and then printing the line over it,
but that doesn't seem to work.
Also, after running the program, GEM does not recognize the
mouse when using dialog boxes. I know it has something to
do with turning the mouse (or mouse control?) on and off, but
there doesn't seem to be any explanation in the Abacus book.
Please e-mail replies to either this account or to ...sunybcs!npdp1!kathy
and, of course, thanks in advance for any help!
-Leo
--
Leo E. Wilson(leo@buffalo.csnet) Niagara Paper Company
364 West Delavan Avenue 99 Bud-Mil Drive
Buffalo, NY 14213 Buffalo, NY 14206
(716)883-7573 (716)856-5135 (0830-1700)
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 86 17:33:19 GMT
From: rutgers!husc6!husc4!grunau_b@lll-crg.arpa (justin grunau)
Subject: Re: Help needed with v_gtext
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Actually, I daresay that many of us would like to hear the responses to this
question ... if you could summarize what you get (or if someone who is fairly
certain of their information wants to just post the answer here directly), I
think many of us would appreciate it ...
Of course, this is very apropos of my question earlier on developers documen-
tation. Do these comments on the Abacus docs refer only to that one book (i.e.
should one get more of the Abacus books to have all the information), or should
one really go for the Atari developers kit to get the right documentation, or
is there just nothing out there that is satisfactory, yet?
JJMG
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 86 17:35:03 GMT
From: rutgers!husc6!husc4!grunau_b@lll-crg.arpa (justin grunau)
Subject: Re: GDOS distribution
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Yes (in reply to Vicarious Oyster), your points are all well-taken. I am
not trying to be selfish, here. I recognize that Atari is selling the
machine dirt-cheap, and that they have to recoup their R&D costs as well as
their current manufacturing costs. I was thinking about cheap mail-order
manufacturers the other day: for instance, PC's Limited sells (at the top
of their line), a fully-decked out fully AT compatible for $1800, where
fully-decked out means 8MHz, 1MB RAM, 1.25M floppy, 20M hard disk, ports,
clock/calendar w/ battery backup, hercules-compatible monitor interface,
and monochrome monitor. For a monochrome ST with 20M hard disk, one would
pay $1800 retail, $1450 typical mail-order discount ($800 mono. ST, $650
Supra or Atari 20M). So we are talking comparable prices. Yet PC's limited
provides very high-quality service, including FREE monthly ROM upgrades.
Of course, one ends up with a boring (though admittedly powerful) AT. I
realized, however, that the difference is that PC's Limited is capitalizing
on IBM's R&D, whereas Atari (even though they did the smart thing and went
with GEM) had to shell out a lot of capital to design the ST in the first
place, and are still (I hope!) spending bucks to debug the OS.
So let no one (esp. Atari) imagine I am trying to be unfair to their side
of the story. I would be happy if they sold GDOS at a reasonable fee, and
the debugged ROMs (free of blitter) at a nominal fee.
For right NOW, I would be happy if I could get some **official** information
from Atari on whether there are even going to BE fixes to the 40-folder
limit, non-booting from HD (at least allow an AUTO folder on the HD, like
you currently allow the .ACC files to be read from drive C:), and whether
either GDOS will be available to non-developers or that we can really be
registered as developers w/o their compiler.
JJMG
Harvard Linguistics
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 86 15:03:31 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: Public Domain Midi Software (attn: Pixar)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
> To the person who responded to my request for public domain MIDI
> software, from "Pixar" in Marin County, CA:
>
> Your return address got munched somewhere. Could you please
> re-send me
>
> 1) Your return (e-mail) address? (Please explicitly write it at
> the end of your letter)
> 2) Your US Mail address (so I can send you the SASE and floppy)?
> 3) Whether your program was for the Amiga or the ST??
>
> Thanks!
> -- Dan
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
since the cat is out of the bag, i'll ask, is the poster refering to
the midi software from The Droid Works ? if so can i get a copy, oh
please, pretty please ? i'll clean up my room for a zillion years !!!
--
----
These are days for the locust to eat
- Winston Churchill
Name: James M. Turner
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway, P.O. Box 58101
Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
AT&T: (408) 986-9400
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner
CompuServe: 76327,1575
GEnie : D-ARCANGEL
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 86 14:52:19 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: Hard disks
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> []
>
> Add-on hard disks (for IBMs, say) are cheap since they come with no box
> and no power supply. Those can easily add $75 or more.
>
> Could people who have attached SCSI drives tell us about this added problem?
>
i assume you mean power supply, the real drain is at spin up and the
amount of amps needed varies with the size and type of HD, my 5 1/2"
drive uses a 5V/3A and a 12V/30A power supply, but a 3 1/4" drive i
borrowed need much less, better to go for overkill than too little
> (Radio Shack sells a surplus unit, originally designed for the Adam,
> that gives 5V/1A, -5V/100mA, 12V/300mA. I don't think that's enough
> for any hard disks (?) but it's great for many other things, e.g. that
> SECOND megabyte. And they only ask $5 for it! Go get a pair :-)
>
considering the sucess of the ADAM and the fact that they are
surplus.... i dunno, but im sure you'll blow your HD if you try
using the power supply for that
> - Moshe Braner
--
----
These are days for the locust to eat
- Winston Churchill
Name: James M. Turner
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway, P.O. Box 58101
Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
AT&T: (408) 986-9400
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner
CompuServe: 76327,1575
GEnie : D-ARCANGEL
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 86 22:19:19 GMT
From: cbatt!cwruecmp!bammi@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Jwahar R. Bammi)
Subject: Re: Help needed with v_gtext
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <702@husc6.UUCP> grunau_b@husc4.UUCP (justin grunau) writes:
> ...
>Of course, this is very apropos of my question earlier on developers documen-
>tation. Do these comments on the Abacus docs refer only to that one book (i.e.
>should one get more of the Abacus books to have all the information), or should
>one really go for the Atari developers kit to get the right documentation, or
>is there just nothing out there that is satisfactory, yet?
In my opinion the Abacus books deserve all the bad publicity they
have gotten in this news group. The good news is that there are excellent
alternates avaialable without resorting the the Atari development system
(which BTW i don't find too bad personally, once you seperate the heap
you get from atari into their respective parts). Here is the list of
alternates that i have. Perphaps others can add to the list.
Aes/Vdi:
"Programmers Guide to Gem"
Phillip Balma and William Fitler
SYBEX
This is an excellent book on GEM. Certainly a must buy. The only
info that is missing are some vdi input calls, that GEM programmers
don't use too often anyway, because if you are using Aes for input
it is dangerous to use these simultaneously, though it can be arranged.
Professional GEM
Tim Oren
Antic Online
I have posted all 17 parts and their appendices here.
Gemdos/Xbios/Bios
The documentations that comes with Mark Williams C.
The best set of Ikbd docs were posted here a while ago.
"The Atari ST Explored"
John Braga
Kuma Computers
The first 11 chapters of this book are pretty useless.
Chapter 12, titled "Hackers start here" (no jokes), onwards
has some pretty decent info and tips.
"The concise Atari St 68000 Programmer's Reference Guide"
Katherine Peel
Glentop
Very terse, but very useful quick reference, once you
are familiar with Aes/Vdi and Gemdos.
The Abacus Internals book should be taken with heaps of
salt, as there are quite a few mistakes in there.
Atari will supposedly release a new set of documentation,
perhaps Neil can tell us when to expect it, and to whom
it will be available.
--
usenet: .....!decvax!cwruecmp!bammi jwahar r. bammi
csnet: bammi@case
arpa: bammi%case@csnet-relay
compuServe: 71515,155
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 86 01:21:49 GMT
From: rutgers!husc6!husc4!grunau_b@lll-crg.arpa (justin grunau)
Subject: PD dungeon game?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hi -- does anybody know if there are any public domain dungeons & dragons type
games that will run on monochrome?
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 86 08:07:06 GMT
From: atwell@UTAH-CS.ARPA (Bart L. Atwell)
Subject: Re: Hard disks
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <704@imagen.UUCP> turner@imagen.UUCP (D'arc Angel) writes:
>> []
>>
>> Add-on hard disks (for IBMs, say) are cheap since they come with no box
>> and no power supply. Those can easily add $75 or more.
>>
>> Could people who have attached SCSI drives tell us about this added problem?
>>
>i assume you mean power supply, the real drain is at spin up and the
>amount of amps needed varies with the size and type of HD, my 5 1/2"
>drive uses a 5V/3A and a 12V/30A power supply, but a 3 1/4" drive i
>borrowed need much less, better to go for overkill than too little
Does this imply that if you buy the Berekeley boards and an SCSI drive,
you have to buy a separate power supply for the drive (ie. you can't
buy a hard drive for ~$350 with built in power)? If this is true, how hard
is it to select and connect a power supply for the new hard drive, especially
if you have little experience with that sort of thing?
Bart
atwell@utah-cs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Nov 86 12:47:04 EST
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
To: Info-Atari16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V86 #22
In-Reply-To: <8611262349.AA00988@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>
Hi!
Thanks for passing the ARPA stuff in the "digests".
I wonder if there is a way to pass to us Unix people just the
stuff that ORIGINATES from ARPA, i.e. avoiding the stuff we have already
seen on Usenet via direct UUCP. Is that hard, easy, or did I misunderstand
the whole thing?
Thanks!
- Moshe Braner
[there is a way to have messages from arpanet relayed directly to usenet,
(without digestification) while the usenet messges would presumably
be discarded (as already bein at each site). - Unfortunately, Im not
quite sure how this works - If anybody knows, send me a message.
(other lists are set up like this, I think). Ill look into it. -BillW]
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------