COMSAT@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (Communications Satellite) (12/13/86)
FAILED: TETHER at MITLNS.MIT.EDU; I gave up on sending this after 31 "temporary" errors.
Failed message follows:
-------
Received: from OZ.AI.MIT.EDU by MC.LCS.MIT.EDU via Chaosnet; 12 DEC 86 17:32:55 EST
Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU by OZ.AI.MIT.EDU via Chaosnet with SMTP; 12 Dec 86 17:31-EST
Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by XX.LCS.MIT.EDU with TCP; Fri 12 Dec 86 17:27:19-EST
Date: Fri 12 Dec 86 12:42:47 PST
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V86 #46
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU>
To: Info-Atari16 Distribution List: ;
Reply-to: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Info-Atari16 Digest Friday, December 12, 1986 Volume 86 : Issue 46
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Veron, Veroff
Re: Atari and BREAKOUT.ACC
Re: Breakout.Acc
Re: Colour questions
Answers to questions
Parallel printer port problem
Re: more about breakout.acc
Megamax patches, and version 1.1
Illegal copies of Dev. Kit
Still need help in Screen Printouts on Epson LQ-800 Printer
magic sac
Re: Illegal copies of Dev. Kit
MACICON.PRG in AUTO folder
floating point info wanted
Megamax and enum
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 86 20:54:53 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Veron, Veroff
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <3681@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU>, ee173fes@sdcc3.ucsd.EDU (STEPHEN SIMON)
writes:
>
> What is the word on Microsoft Write? I've heard rumors of Microsoft
> pulling out of Atari (a fight between Tramiel and the Pres??) and am
> worried about the future of Write. It would be a bad time if we
> lost them! Remember, these were _rumors_!! Anybody got any _real_,
> _solid_ news??
Microsoft Write is nearing finalization and should be in stores early in
'87. No problems at all between Atari and Microsoft.
--
--->Neil @ Atari
...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS
GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
US Mail: Atari Corp.
1196 Borregas Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94086
"Loose chips sink ships."
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 86 20:59:11 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Atari and BREAKOUT.ACC
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <8612051455.AA02099@ncsc.ARPA>, moore@NCSC.ARPA (Moore) writes:
>
> The *only* reason I haven't posted DB Master One, which I got
> from a "Public Domain" BBS, is because I can't get a straight (or at least,
> consistent) answer on if it is pd or not.
DB Master One is a copyright program. In fact, your local computer dealer
should have copies of it in boxes. Just because we put something in the box
with the computer last Xmas, people seem to think it's public domain.
Regarding the brouhaha over BREAKOUT.ACC, I certainly didn't mean to cause
an uproar. It is not PD, we would like to do something with it someday, but
we are well aware that it has been floating around for some time. We'd like
to keep it under control, that's all.
--
--->Neil @ Atari
...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS
GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
US Mail: Atari Corp.
1196 Borregas Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94086
"Loose chips sink ships."
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 86 21:09:33 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Breakout.Acc
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <861206121604.000009B1.AAWY.MA@UMass>, Flash@UMass.BITNET (Rick Flashman) writes:
> Wait a Minute, it is "under development"? Breakout was SHIPPED with the
> first ST's! Am I to understand that a program that was shipped with the
> first ST's and that is available from Atari's own BBS and GEnie and every
> other decent BBS in the nation, all of suddent changed to a program
> "under development"?
BREAKOUT.ACC was NEVER packed out with ST's, nor is it available on the
Atari Base BBS. (I just looked, to make sure). If it's on GEnie it will
disappear shortly.
> I worked for an Atari Dealer for a while, and it is fascinating
> watching Atari change its prices of things. We were informed that the
> ROM upgrade would be $30, then they added the blitter, and it would be
> $50, then when all the dealers showed interest, it went up to $70,
> now it is around $120.
The original ROMs were available for $30, as an upgrade to people with
RAM-based systems. Once those people were taken care of, the price of ROMs
went up -- we were taking a small loss on each set at the smaller price, as
a concession to people who needed them. Now they're spare parts.
The poster seems to be confusing the ROMs with the upcoming "blitter"
upgrade.
> The New version of Basic is supposed to be free when finished. HA! I bet
> Atari will put a price on that too.
Correct. We never said it will be free. It won't cost very much, though.
> Did you realize how N. Harris has stopped answering user questions
Funny, I hadn't noticed that....
--
--->Neil @ Atari
...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS
GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
US Mail: Atari Corp.
1196 Borregas Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94086
"Loose chips sink ships."
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 86 03:17:00 GMT
From: ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!franco@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Colour questions
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Three very fine games that run on mono are
chess.prg (from germany, edited for english by Brent McKim)
(includes an icon editor)
puzzlepuzzle (from germany - shareware)
pool.prg
These are very good mono games. The chess progam alone is enough to
justify a mon monitor (and remember, you need a mono monitor to use
the magic sac)
[ These have both been received at Score, but have not yet been posted.
They can be FTPed from <info-atari>CHESS.ARC and PUZZLE.ARC for
those of you who are impatient. --BillW]
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 86 21:24:36 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Answers to questions
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
To the good people of netland,
Sometimes the answers to questions change over time. Specifically, the
status of GDOS changed from the time of the original postings to the current
status, regarding the method of distribution. I apologize for this. I hope
you will bear with me. Usually if I suspect that a situation like this may
occur, I keep my mouth shut until the final decision is reached. But
perfection has not yet been reached. So if you see conflicting reports
emanating from me, the reason is that TPTB changed their minds. Try not to
shoot the messenger.
Regarding specific questions directed at me that have gone unanswered, you
may suspect that the answer is not yet available. I would prefer not to
clutter up the net with "no comment" replies.
Regarding technical questions coming my way, please note that I am not
currently working as a fulltime programmer, I am the Marketing
Communications guy here (i.e. support, PR, etc.). I do some programming on
the side, and there are questions of this nature I can solve directly, but
when you get beyond my experience I punt the question up to folks like
Landon Dyer and let them answer if they can.
Finally, when situations arise that fall into the "tempest in a teapot"
category, like the BREAKOUT.ACC story and, to some extent, the GDOS flap, I
tend to let you vent steam rather than sit and answer a hundred messages.
<ducking back from the flames...>
--
--->Neil @ Atari
...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS
GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
US Mail: Atari Corp.
1196 Borregas Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94086
"Loose chips sink ships."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 86 22:55:17 EST
From: LSI%UMass.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU (Peter Lawall, Logical
Subject: Parallel printer port problem
To: Info-Atari16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Rick Flashman (Flash%UMass.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU) writes:
> BTW, Atari's Printer port on the ST is NOT all that STANDARD. If you
> are trying to hook a Okidata dot-matrix printer to an ST, talk first to
> your local Atari dealer. There are cable modifications that must be made
> cause Atari did not use a standard connection....some voltages are
> messed up or something. Need a tech for that one.
The only technically "non standard" thing about the parallel printer port
is that it only supports BUSY handshake as opposed to both BUSY and
ACKNOWLEDGE. This isn't usually a problem, as every printer that I know of
provides a BUSY output in addition to the ACK output.
The problem with OKI printers (at least the 192, as this is the one that
I diagnosed and fixed said problem on) is that they provide fairly low value
resistive termination of all the input signals. Unfortunately, in an attempt
to save every last penny for Tramiel's pocket, Atari decided not to buffer
the STROBE signal, which originates at one of the MOS devices (probably
the 68901). The resistive termination excessively loads this MOS output,
which causes the signal in its active state to fall outside of the
recommended spec for a logic "0". Anyway, the printer worked, but duplicated
characters once every few lines due to the marginality of this signal. To
cure the problem one could probably merely buffer the STROBE signal with a
simple buffer gate like one section of a 74LS08, but as I had a 74LS14 in
the top drawer of my desk, I used two sections of this back to back for
added noise immunity. Anyway, this cured the duplication of characters 100%,
and the printer now worked fine... Keep it in mind if you come across a
printer that exhibits this problem.
Incidentally, the above above speculation of the STROBE signal coming
from an unbuffered MOS output is actually just that--speculation; however,
the fact that the added buffer cured the problem seems to point strongly
in this direction (as does the penny-pinching nature of Atari). I didn't
bother opening the Atari at the time to verify this for sure, and don't have
another one handy right now to check it on. But I'm sure that was it...
Peter
------------------------------
Date: 8 Dec 86 22:24:26 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihuxi!store2@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Wilcox)
Subject: Re: more about breakout.acc
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
>
> I am told that this program was available (perhaps still is) from ATARI's
> own BBS in Sunnyvale!
>
> Terrell
Just because a piece of software is available on a BBS does not mean it is
public domain. Even public domain may not really mean "public domain".
There was a big discussion about this on CompuServe, I am told. I do not
have an account there, so I wasn't following the discussion. CompuServe
has taken the position that any public domain software you download off
their board can only be used by you and cannot be uploaded onto another
board without their permission. They admit that such a stand might stand
up in court but they are trying to attract more subscribers which is
counterproductive to letting people distribute their software freely.
I understand they will revoke a subscribers logon if they are guilty of
distrubuting it without permission. Don't know if they have actually
done so.
Kit Kimes
AT&T--Information Systems Labs
1100 E. Warrenville Rd.
Naperville, IL 60566
...ihnp4!iwvae!kimes
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 86 03:05:15 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: Megamax patches, and version 1.1
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I sent my original disks to Megamax, and about 3 weeks later I now have
version 1.1. This is a very preliminary report on the new version:
The lengths of most of the files on the 2 disks have been changed.
The floating-point comparision bug is fixed. Mmcc now lets you compile
several files from one command line. But: I/O redirection from inside
MY COPY of micro-C-Shell still doesn't work!! Also, the old note about
"Merge, Abandon, Flatten and Load not yet implemented" in MMRCP is still
there (I havn't actually tried MMRCP yet).
The fix for I/O redirection is still the same:
Make MM use other characters instead of '<' and '>' - characters that
MCS ignores. I chose '_' for input, '^' for output.
This way you gain I/O redirection for YOUR programs from inside MCS -
and it also still works from the desktop - but you have to remember to use
"_infile ^outfile" in BOTH cases. Akward, since you still have to use
the angle brackets when redirecting MCS programs (as in "ls > file").
But better than nothing!
The patch (for MM v1.0 and also for v1.1):
Extract initargcv.o from syslib, using "mmlib X syslib initargcv.o".
Use your favorite debugger or whatever (e.g. bth/htb) to change the
following 3 bytes in the file initargc.o (all these places have a
CMP.W #xx,D0, and we change the xx):
offset old new notes
$1AB $3C $5F '<' --> '_' (input)
$1C3 $3E $5E '>' --> '^' (output)
$1D5 $3E $5E '>' --> '^' (append with ^^)
Delete initargcv.o from syslib: "mmlib D syslib initargcv.o".
Put the new version inside syslib: "mmlib R syslib initargc.o".
(The 'D' step MAY be necessary since the TOS filename is shorter
than the original internal name inside syslib - how did they do it?)
Mmdis.ttp has been modified, it needs a new patch:
To fix mmdis.ttp for I/O redirection using '_' and '^':
offset (1.0) offset (1.1) new value
389D 38A5 5F
38B1 38B9 5E
38C1 38C9 5E
It is common to read auxillary data files from a program when it is invoked.
I don't like that, I'd rather have the data inside the program file itself.
One thing that is implemented rather inefficiently in the Megamax C compiler,
though, is INITIALIZED arrays: a separate line of code is compiled to poke
each element's value into the array, instead of having the data as a table
and compiling a loop to read and poke. (The data could even be left in the
table itself, which would serve as the array, saving memory, but that is
considered gross and dirty by the "authorities": you might want to put some
program some day in ROM, and then it won't work for VARIABLE arrays, so
you have to do it the kinky way ALL the time!)
So, as usual, we have to do it ourselves:
You can put the data inside an asm{} section, in DC.x statements!
You can leave it there as an initialized array:
/*
* Table of stuff:
*/
extern stuff();
asm {
DC.W 1,235,678,43,7,0,123,567,123
etc.
}
...
x = ((int *)(&stuff()))[i];
...
Or, you can read it like a file:
/*
* Implement a built-in file efficiently.
*
* This function returns consecutive chars
* from the built-in file, or ERROR.
*/
int
getb() {
static int fpos=(-1);
static int fend=LENGTH;
if (++fpos >= fend)
return (ERROR);
asm {
CLR.W D0
LEA mydata(PC),A0
ADDA.W fpos(A4),A0
MOVE.B (A0),D0
UNLK A6
RTS
/*
* The "built-in file" data:
*/
mydata:
DC.B 0x47,0x40,0x40,0x40,0x40,0x40,0x00,0x40
DC.B 0x76,0x00,0x28,0x7C,0x28,0x7C,0x28,0x38
etc.
} /* end of asm{} */
} /* end of built_in() */
WARNING:
++++++++
The number of bytes in the DC.B statements MUST be even
(or you can use DC.W or DC.L - which saves typing too...)!!!
Otherwise the following code will be compiled on an odd address!
(That's right, the compiler (linker?) is rather stupid...)
(Also, most assemblers have a pseudo-opcode such as "EVEN", or ".EVEN",
that you can put at the end so that you won't have to count your bytes.
If there is such a pseudo-code in the Megamax asm{}, I don't know its syntax!
There is no documentation for the asm{} syntax at all!)
- Moshe Braner
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 86 04:49:35 GMT
From: ihnp4!chinet!cabbie@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Andrews)
Subject: Illegal copies of Dev. Kit
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I purposly posted the message about the developers kit being
sold for $50.00 with a "open" type of attitude.
These people are ripping us and Atari off! With all of the scuttle-butt and
hoop-de-rah over 'Breakout', I thought that the posting would get more
notice with the users of the net. Maybe no one really cares! I hope
not. If these people continue to sell product that is obviously stolen
from some "developer" and we as users knowingly buy the product, then we
are a guilty as they are. In court that is known as being an accessory
to the fact. Sure, $300.00 is a lot of money, but so is MAC65, ACTION!,
and BASIC-XL for the 8 bit line. Those packages sell for $65.00 and
the machines they run on cost about $65.00. If Atari chose to price the
Dev. Kit the same way, then it would cost $800.00! True the docs are
a little vague and need re-writing, but the .h files are the important
files and are required reading for anyone doing development work. What
can one person do? I suppose that letters to these companies would really
do the trick. I think that if just a few of us wrote and said the unless
they stopped selling the software IMMEDIATELY, we would write the Attorney
General in their state, and report that they are selling stolen and
pirated software. If just a few of us would do that then this type
of blatent piracy would end quickly.
And then people wonder why software companies (legit ones) refuse
to write software for the Atari.
If you want to flame me go ahead. I don't care, and it won't make a
pair of fretted dingo's kidneys to me.
Any opinions expressed above are my own. Rich Andrews
They can be yours too. Please send $19.95 to.....ihnp4!chinet!cabbie
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 86 03:13:20 GMT
From: ihnp4!houxm!genesis!odyssey!jcs@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (j.c.schwebel)
Subject: Still need help in Screen Printouts on Epson LQ-800 Printer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I Need help in using the Screen Printout option on the Atari 1040ST with
an Epson LQ-800 Printer.
The printouts are squished to 1/8 or less of the proper size.
I had tried changing the Printer DIP switches earlier with no success,
but I tried it again today.
Switch 2-8 is the "automatic line feed" switch.
The Screen Print does not work with the switch in either position.
The problem is that the printer does not feed down enough.
It does feed down, but too small of a distance.
With 2-8 on, the screen printout is squished into about 1/8 of a page.
With 2-8 off, the screen printout is 3/4 of the size that it is with 2-8 on.
Apparently the commands used to feed down after each line are not compatible
with the new Epson 24 pin printers.
I don't know what is required to change the commands put out by the screen
dump routine, since I don't do development on the Atari and don't know about
its drivers or whatever is needed.
I almost feel like getting a Macintosh with an Imagewriter, because all
the software on the Mac seems to work with that printer.
Please, anyone, let me know if you know any solution to this problem.
Presently, I would not recommend gettting an LQ printer until
you check its compatibility with graphic printout programs on the ST.
John Schwebel
Bell Labs
480 Red Hill Road, Middletown NJ 07748
Office: (201) 615-4782
Home: (201) 291-5750
odyssey!jcs
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Dec 86 21:11:15 PST
From: <PV9Y@cornella.bitnet>
Reply-To: PV9Y%CORNELLA.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: magic sac
Hi, I'm new to this discussion and would like to know what (if anything)
is happening with the Macintosh emulator. I'm at Cornell, where
Macintoshes abound (to my dismay whenever I need to use one) and I would
be very interested if the emulator was reasonable and worked fairly
well. Thanks.
-Adam Engst (pv9y@cornella.bitnet)
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 86 15:38:30 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihuxi!store2@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Wilcox)
Subject: Re: Illegal copies of Dev. Kit
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> Sure, $300.00 is a lot of money, but so is MAC65, ACTION!,
>and BASIC-XL for the 8 bit line. Those packages sell for $65.00 and
>the machines they run on cost about $65.00. If Atari chose to price the
>Dev. Kit the same way, then it would cost $800.00!
This may sound like nitpicking, but the above statement is a little
misleading. Sure, you can find the 800XL at close out price of $69.95
at Toys 'R Us, but you can also pick up a 520ST for $349.95 while you
are there. Point is, all you are showing in one case is the keyboard/cpu
($65) and in the other case a complete color system ($800). The developers
kit is selling for just 14% less than the cost of a 520ST keyboard/cpu,
so the price ratio isn't much different. This is not to justify the selling
of pirate software. I am definitely against such action and it should be
pointed out to those who have the power to prosecute offenders. I'm sure
that someone at Atari gets Computer Shopper. If not, these articles will
make them aware that such ads exists since some of them read this news-
group (Neil and Landon for sure). This is not a flame at Rich since I
appreciate his comments in general and agree with him on this issue as well.
Kit Kimes
AT&T--Information Systems Labs
1100 E. Warrenville Rd.
Naperville, IL 60566
...ihnp4!iwvae!kimes
"Technology So Advanced It's Affordable" (Atari's new tagline)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 86 19:28:54 cst
From: moore@ncsc.ARPA (Moore)
To: info-atari16@su-score.ARPA
Subject: MACICON.PRG in AUTO folder
Has anyone been able to get MACICON.PRG (the program that turns the
floppy disk drawer icon into a floppy disk icon--makes sense to me) to
run in an AUTO folder? I have VEROFF, CPY2RDSK, a RAMDISK that
survives resets, and a clock program in the AUTO folder (I think
that's all). MACICON will run okay if I click on it, but not from the
folder. Any suggestions?
Jim
Moore@NCSC.arpa
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 86 23:04:57 GMT
From: sandra@UTAH-CS.ARPA (Sandra J Loosemore)
Subject: floating point info wanted
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Can anyone provide details on the internal representation of floating
point numbers used by the various C compilers for the ST?
Thanks,
-Sandra Loosemore (sandra@utah-cs.arpa)
------------------------------
Date: 9 Dec 86 16:34:14 GMT
From: mcvax!cernvax!jmg@seismo.css.gov (jmg)
Subject: Megamax and enum
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I recently talked about implementing gnuplot on the ST. There is no
problem for the graphics routines (line/point/move). However, the big
problem is that Megamax does not support enum. Ok, it isn't in K&R, but..
Anyway, this will slow conversion, unless Megamax has a new version up
their sleeve.
Ought I to have bought Mark Williams?
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------