todd@zeke.UUCP (Todd Burkey) (01/10/87)
The following article just got uploaded to my BBS and I thought everyone
would appreciate it...hope everybody didn't decide to upload the same thing.
Also, I got the new RGB version of the Magic Sac and will upload D. Small's
comments on it and my own after I get a chance to try it tonite...wished I
had bought Atari Stock at 13.50
-Todd Burkey
...!mecc!zeke!todd
Atari Announces New Products at CES
-----------------------------------
Las Vegas, NV, Jan. 8 -- In a dramatic press conference held this
morning at the Consumer Electronics Show, spokesmen for the Atari
Corporation introduced a panoply of new products for 1987.
Highlights included three significant new additions to Atari's
flagship ST line of high-performance personal computers, a
revolutionary low-cost laser printer, and an IBM PC-compatible
personal computer of radically new design.
The new ST computers, dubbed "Mega STs 1, 2, and 4"
incorporate one, two, and four megabytes of RAM, respectively.
Encased in a newly-designed system unit with integral 800K
microfloppy drive and detachable, ergonomic keyboard, the new
machines are visibly different from Atari's current 520ST and
1040ST models, while remaining 100% compatible with them.
Additional enhancements to the Mega machines include a battery-
backed realtime clock, internal mounting space for an additional
circuit board, and full external routing of the 68000 bus, making
their architecture "wide open" for further enhancements. "We took
all our customer's suggestions on how we could improve the ST, and
incorporated them in this series," said Neil Harris, Atari's
Director of Marketing Communications. Delivery of the new
machines, via computer specialty stores, is expected to begin
shortly at a price-point of "about $1000."
The new Atari laser printer, shown in a prototype version,
will match or exceed the performance of present laser printer
systems while costing only about half as much -- about $1500.
Atari has accomplished this enormous cost-saving by exploiting the
power inherent in their ST computers. Coupled with a 2- or 4-
megabyte Mega ST, the laser printer will form the output stage of
a desktop publishing system costing less than $3000 total.
Atari's new IBM PC-compatible machine, the Atari PC, is a
radical departure from present "PC clone" designs, offering top-
of-the-line compatibility and features at a record-breaking price
of under $500. Housed in a system unit similar to the Mega ST with
integral 5-1/4" floppy drive and detachable XT-style keyboard, the
PC/XT compatible Atari PC sports 512K RAM standard (expandable to
640K on the motherboard), an additional 256K of graphics-dedicated
RAM, a custom graphics chip providing enhanced EGA, CGA, IBM
Monochrome, and Hercules graphics capabilities, and a Microsoft
compatible mouse. It operates at the IBM standard 4.77 Mhz or at a
high-speed 8 Mhz "turbo mode," and provides for the addition of an
8087 math coprocessor at either speed. A monochrome monitor
designed for use with the Atari PC was also announced. Costing
under $200, the monitor supports all Atari PC graphics modes,
including the high-resolution, multicolor EGA mode in grey-scale.
Shipments of the Atari PC will begin in March.
The new products -- perceived by some as the fulfillment of
promises made over a year ago by Atari CEO Jack Tramiel -- are
universally hailed as milestones for the Atari Corporation. One
informed onlooker commented: "It's as if Atari, in one fell swoop,
had stepped to the leading edge in three markets: high-performance
workstations, desktop publishing systems, and the lucrative PC-
compatible game. They're going to be the company to watch in
1987."
With somewhat less fanfare, Atari also announced a new
slimline 20-megabyte Winchester drive for its ST line,
incorporating an extra port for daisy-chaining with other DMA-
compatible peripherals, such as the new laser printer. At the same
time, Atari announced price reductions on existing ST models. A
520ST CPU will now be available for under $300 retail, a 1040ST
with monochrome monitor for around $799, and a 1040ST with color
monitor for around $999.
Low-cost Atari Laser Printer Promises "Revolution" in
Desktop Publishing
Las Vegas, NV Jan. 8 -- A prototype laser printer, being
demonstrated by Atari here at CES, will form the basis for a full-
featured desktop publishing system costing less than half the
price of systems built around competing architectures. Designed to
interface with Atari's ST line of high-performance personal
computers, the new laser printer will be taken to market later
this year at the astoundingly low price of around $1500.
"Desktop publishing" -- the use of personal computers to
produce high-quality printed matter -- has become a burgeoning
industry over the past two years. Powerful, graphics-oriented
personal computers such as the Atari ST are now routinely used in
typesetting, page design, paste-up, and -- in combination with
high-resolution laser printers -- for producing high-quality,
"camera ready" output. However, largely because the price of laser
printers has remained high, the cost of a desktop publishing
system is still out of reach for many.
By redesigning the standard laser printer to take advantage
of the power latent in the ST line -- particularly the new Mega
STs -- Atari hopes to make full-featured desktop publishing a
reality at less than $3000 for a complete system; about what a
conventional laser printer costs today. Designed to interface with
the ST's high-speed DMA (Direct Memory Access) port and
incorporating a standard laser "engine," the Atari laser printer
will produce rapid throughput at 300 dots-per-inch resolution.
Though technical details have not yet been revealed, Shiraz
Shivji, head of Atari's hardware engineering division, states that
Atari "has designed an admirably flexible system that includes all
the advantages and few of the disadvantages of present laser
printer architectures. The printer will be able to handle multiple
fonts and standard page-description languages at the discretion of
software. Moreover, adapting present software to use the laser
printer's full capabilities should be fairly simple, providing
such software has been written in conformance with GEM standards."
Flagships of the Atari Line: New Mega ST Workstations
Offer "Power Without the Price" for Desktop Publishing,
Professional Applications.
Las Vegas, NV Jan. 8 -- Atari's new Mega ST 1, 2, and 4 computers,
announced today at the Consumer Electronics Show, create new
personal computer price/performance standards -- standards that
the rest of the computer industry will be hard-pressed to meet or
beat in 1987. Available starting at $1000, the new machines will
offer up to four megabytes of RAM memory: sixteen times that of
most standard, high-end workstations.
The Mega ST is housed in an independent "system unit," about
22" square by 2" high, containing the CPU, a double-sided floppy
drive and an internal power supply. The ST's normal complement of
ports, including those for DMA, RS-232 serial, parallel, disk,
video, cartridge, MIDI, mouse, and joystick, plus an additional
port for connecting the detachable, ergonomic keyboard, are
included. The Mega ST system unit is reinforced to support a
monitor and can be stacked with other components -- notably the
enhanced 20-megabyte hard disk drive. Even fully loaded, it
will take up far less room than present ST configurations.
The sleek new Mega chassis contains a redesigned ST
motherboard, sporting significant enhancements. A battery-backed
clock calendar is now standard equipment, eliminating the present
need to set time manually on power-up. The clock runs off alkaline
penlight batteries -- more easily obtainable and less expensive
than "coin-type" lithium cells.
The Mega ST architecture is "wide open," permitting internal
and external expansion with add-on circuit cards. The new design
provides full access to the 68000 bus and power supply, and
fixtures have been provided for installing a circuit board inside
the case. Further expansion is possible by routing the bus outside
to an external card-cage. RAM expansion up to 16 megabytes and
networking capabilities will soon be available from Atari as low-
cost add-ons.
The Mega ST's detachable keyboard is designed to the highest
ergonomic standards for convenience and ease of use. Connected to
the system unit by a coiled cable, the new keyboard can be held
comfortably in the lap. When placed on the desktop, adjustable
legs fold down to support the unit at the preferred typing angle.
Internally, the keyboard has been enhanced with high-quality key
switches for improved tactile and auditory feedback, better
"feel," and increased reliability.
Where does the Mega line stand in relation to other Atari
products? "They're our flagships," says Atari spokesman Neil
Harris. "The Mega STs represent Atari's continued strong support
of the ST architecture." They are also physical proof that Atari
has been listening to its users and taking their advice seriously.
"Most of the improvements we've made in the basic ST design have
been taken from 'wish lists' that have come out of our dialogue
with users over the past year." Harris says.
With vastly expanded memory, an open architecture, a more
compact configuration with integrated peripherals, and an improved
keyboard, the Mega machines are clearly intended as "professional"
computers. Networking capabilities and sufficient memory for
running multiple, co-resident applications, plus the promise of
desktop publishing (in combination with the upcoming Atari laser
printer) are sure to make the Mega ST an office favorite in the
coming year.
The Atari PC -- "More than just another pretty clone."
Las Vegas, NV Jan. 8 -- The audience at this morning's CES press
conference was stunned to learn that Atari Corporation, long a
manufacturer of proprietary, high-performance home and personal
computers, is planning to market an IBM PC-compatible machine.
Industry insiders, however, were quick to note that Atari has
always been known for bringing state-of-the-art products to market
at low prices and for driving the industry by finding and staking
out new turf. In this context, it is less surprising that Atari
has chosen to bring their special brand of competition where, for
the moment, the competition is hottest. "We saw no reason to
ignore the fact that there are profits to be made in the IBM PC-
compatible marketplace at this time." Says Neil Harris, Atari's
Director of Marketing Communications, "especially since it is a
different market than the one we are addressing with our high-end,
flagship ST systems."
Presently, the PC-compatible industry is moving in two
directions. At the low end, a group of more-or-less anonymous
clone makers are packaging "bare bones" systems for the mail-order
market. Buyers of such machines often find that they must add
several hundred dollars worth of extra hardware before their
"bargain systems" can accomplish useful work. At the high end,
clone makers such as Leading Edge and Compaq are providing more
complete systems than IBM itself. At prices starting at around
$1200 and up, however, these machines can only be considered
bargains in comparison with the even higher cost of going with Big
Blue.
In designing their PC, Atari management decided to run
counter to both dominant trends. Instead, they reasoned that by
applying new technology and old-fashioned manufacturing leverage,
they could bring to market a fully-loaded, state-of-the-art system
-- a "here's everything you'll ever need" PC -- at a price-point
low enough to undercut even the "el cheapo" clone makers.
They appear to have succeeded. The Atari PC, which will
retail for "around $500," is a compact and elegant system loaded
with features not found on systems costing literally thousands of
dollars more. Measuring about 22" square by only 2" high, the
Atari PC system unit includes a built-in, half-height 5-1/4"
diskette drive and integral power supply. An XT-style keyboard
attaches to the unit via a coiled cable. A second 5-1/4" drive or
ST-style 3-1/2" drive, capable of reading disks in either ST or
IBM format, can be attached externally. But that's just the
beginning.
The Atari PC comes with 512K of RAM, expandable to 640K via
sockets on the motherboard. Standard serial, parallel, and
combination video ports, and an ST-style disk port, are all
included. A mouse port, based on the Microsoft INPORT chip, is
built in, and an ST-type mouse is included with the system. Thus,
unlike competing PC-compatible systems, the Atari PC will be able
to run PC GEM, Microsoft Windows, and mouse-based programs like
Microsoft Word, right out of the box.
The Atari PC employs an Intel 8086 microprocessor which can
run at 4.77 Mhz and in an enhanced, 8 Mhz, "turbo mode." An
8087 math coprocessor, running at either speed, can be added via a
socket on the motherboard.
As one would expect, Atari has paid special attention the
Atari PC's graphics capabilities. Most low-cost PC compatibles
support only the IBM Monochrome mode, and are thus text-only
systems. A few of the more expensive clones include IBM Color
Graphics Adapter (CGA) and/or Hercules monochrome graphics
capabilities. IBM Enhanced Graphics Adapter (EGA) 640 x 350 x 16-
color graphics capabilities have, in the past, only been
accessible via expensive upgrades to a system's dislay circuitry
and the purchase of costly high-resolution monitors. Moreover,
purchasers of the supposedly downward-compatible EGA enhancements
have often been disappointed to discover that IBM-style EGA isn't
as downward compatible as they hoped -- some CGA software won't
run.
Yet, Atari has managed to shoehorn IBM Monochrome, CGA, EGA,
and Hercules graphics capabilities into the Atari PC. Besides the
fact that the Atari PC is the only PC-compatible to include EGA
graphics as a standard feature, Atari's Shiraz Shivji notes: "our
EGA is completely downward-compatible with CGA. As a result, users
will experience no compatibility problems when using the lower
graphics modes." What's more, Atari has announced a $200
monochrome greenscreen monitor for use with the Atari PC that can
display all its graphics modes; including the high resolution EGA
color mode, using intensity gradients (gray scales) to represent
colors. This is the first monitor that incorporates these
capabilities. "The monitor is intelligent," says Shivji, "and
recognizes the frequency of signals coming from the combination
video port, adjusting itself appropriately to display whatever
kind of text or graphics the machine produces."
The Atari PC is virtually 100% compatible with software
available for the IBM PC and XT. While its slimline housing
provides no room for mounting internal circuit cards, it is
doubtful that more than a handful of users will require more
capabilities than the machine provides in its off-the-shelf
configuration. For those who do, Atari intends to provide an
external expansion box in the near future.
--
-Todd Burkey
ZYCAD Corporation
..!mecc!zeke!toddneil@atari.UUcp (Neil Harris) (01/13/87)
It should be noted that the articles posted to the net from Atari Base are
COPYRIGHT by Atari Explorer magazine, and are exerpted from the issue due
within the next 10 days. The net does have permission to post them -- if
someone else hadn't put them here, I was about to.
--
--->Neil @ Atari
...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS
GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
US Mail: Atari Corp.
1196 Borregas Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94086
"Loose chips sink ships."Bicer.ES@XEROX.COM (01/15/87)
------------------------------ It should be noted that the articles posted to the net from Atari Base are COPYRIGHT by Atari Explorer magazine, and are exerpted from the issue due within the next 10 days. The net does have permission to post them -- if someone else hadn't put them here, I was about to. --->Neil @ Atari ------------------------------ Neil, I, as well as some other people on the net, feel cheated about finding out Atari's latest products some time after the CES announcements. I have always felt that on this net, we exchanged information in a timely and honest manner. As a result of this, we came to trust each other, especially you Neil, since not only you provided timely information, but also you were honest, even on unpopular issues. Not having prepared for a major CES show and announcement, I can not fully understand the amount of time and work you must have put in it. But, would it have been to much to ask for a message to be sent to the ST fans at about the time the CES announcements took place. Neil, we appreciate the things you do for us on the net. We have a pretty good thing going, I'd like to see that getting better. Sincerely, Jack Bicer Bicer.ES@Xerox.COM
jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (Jim Omura) (01/18/87)
In article <870115-133608-1094@Xerox> Bicer.ES@XEROX.COM writes: > >Neil, > >I, as well as some other people on the net, feel cheated about finding out >Atari's latest products some time after the CES announcements. I have >always felt that on this net, we exchanged information in a timely and >honest manner. As a result of this, we came to trust each other, >especially you Neil, since not only you provided timely information, >but also you were honest, even on unpopular issues. > >Not having prepared for a major CES show and announcement, I can not >fully understand the amount of time and work you must have put in it. >But, would it have been to much to ask for a message to be sent to the >ST fans at about the time the CES announcements took place. > >Neil, we appreciate the things you do for us on the net. We have a >pretty good thing going, I'd like to see that getting better. > > Neil prepares and uploads to *many* systems, as is evidenced by his very long signature file. Most of the systems he loads to are commercial systems with paying users. They mostly have the ability to make information available as soon as posted, and thus are fairer to all the users of the systems. Usenet isn't like that on two counts. First, most of the people on the Net do not pay for access and thus are getting their info much cheaper. Secondly, there is *no* way to distribute information on the Net so that it will show up on all sites at the same time. Now, taking these points backwards, Neil *cannot* post to the Net before the official release of the information you want (well, he could, but then the cat's out of the bag). If you want Atari information specifically from the Net, then the only thing you can do is try to get access to a machine closer to him on the path. To do so will probably cost you quite a bit if you happen to live far away from his site. The alternative is to use the commercial systems. As the moderator of the OS-9 conference on BIX I have a direct interest in seeing BIX attract new users, but long before I was a moderator on BIX I was a user of CIS, the Source and Dow Jones. I was *not* rich. I just used them sparingly. I tried (fairly successfully) to keep my online to less than $50.00/month which I could barely afford, and benefited greatly from my contact with the people I met there. The choice is yours. Cheers! -- Jim O.
jdg@elmgate.UUCP (Jeff Gortatowsky) (01/19/87)
In article <1514@lsuc.UUCP> jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (Jim Omura) writes: > The alternative is to use the commercial systems. As the moderator of >the OS-9 conference on BIX I have a direct interest in seeing BIX attract >new users, but long before I was a moderator on BIX I was a user of CIS, >the Source and Dow Jones. I was *not* rich. I just used them sparingly. >I tried (fairly successfully) to keep my online to less than $50.00/month >which I could barely afford, and benefited greatly from my contact with >the people I met there. The choice is yours. > >Cheers! -- Jim O. The interesting point you brought up here is when you wrote 'I was *not* rich'. Either you are now, or moderators use BIX for nothing. Although I've heard that BIX has the highest quality of tech info of any of the pay services. Too bad that McGraw-Hill priced it right out of the range of some of us who could use it and contribute to it. Me? I use the net and PLINK. I look to the net for technical meat, and PLINK for social potatos. BIX? Well I can afford to read the best of BIX column in Byte and that's it. BTW. I agree that Atari's doing an OK job spreading info almost everywhere they can. -- Jeff Gortatowsky {allegra,seismo}!rochester!kodak!elmgate!jdg Eastman Kodak Company <Kodak won't be responsible for the above comments, only those below>
neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) (01/20/87)
In article <1514@lsuc.UUCP>, jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (Jim Omura) writes: > In article <870115-133608-1094@Xerox> Bicer.ES@XEROX.COM writes: > >I, as well as some other people on the net, feel cheated about finding out > >Atari's latest products some time after the CES announcements. I have > >always felt that on this net, we exchanged information in a timely and > >honest manner. > >Would it have been to much to ask for a message to be sent to the > >ST fans at about the time the CES announcements took place. > Now, taking these points backwards, Neil *cannot* post to the Net > before the official release of the information you want (well, he could, but > then the cat's out of the bag). If you want Atari information specifically > from the Net, then the only thing you can do is try to get access to a > machine closer to him on the path. To do so will probably cost you quite > a bit if you happen to live far away from his site. Thanks, Jim O., for rushing to my defense. However, in this case its my own fault. I made arrangements for uploads of the information to the Atari BBS, to CIS, and to BIX, while personally uploading it (from my hotel room) to GEnie. I forgot about making arrangements for Usenet. Since I had no net access from Vegas, I had no recourse. You are a resourceful group, and before long someone posted the notices anyway. Jim is right in saying that we can't post the info before the official release time. Since Antic was sworn to secrecy and spilled the beans a day early anyway, count on them not having the info in time to do so in the future. At any rate, I will be sure to remember about y'all for the next set of earth-shattering news.
grr@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (George Robbins) (01/22/87)
In article <529@atari.UUCP> neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) writes: >I forgot about making arrangements for Usenet. Since I had no net >access from Vegas, I had no recourse. You are a resourceful group, and >before long someone posted the notices anyway. Gee Neil, you should have come over to the Commodore booth - we were online, matter of fact we wouldn't have come if we had to stay off the net for more than a day or two. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) (01/22/87)
In article <554@elmgate.UUCP>, jdg@elmgate.UUCP (Jeff Gortatowsky) writes: > The interesting point you brought up here is when you wrote 'I was *not* > rich'. Either you are now, or moderators use BIX for nothing. Although > I've heard that BIX has the highest quality of tech info of any of the > pay services. Too bad that McGraw-Hill priced it right out of the range > of some of us who could use it and contribute to it. Yes, BIX moderators use the service for free, as do moderators and VIP's on almost every information service. Some services even pay them a small royalty for their work -- and there's a LOT of work that goes into the services. Speaking of BIX, I agree that the connect time price is very high. Fortunately, there are ways around the excessive charges, and the quality of information available on BIX is enough to make it worthwhile for netlanders to give it some further thought. There is a BIX technique known as the "blink" which can capture a large quantity of messages into a buffer, then transmit that buffer to you. You read all the messages offline. This keeps your connect time to a minimum, except for the first call or 2 when you set up your account to only capture the messages you want. The "blink" technique is totally effective on BIX due to its structure, and is not really possible on other systems. You see, BIX is divided into conferences (i.e. atari.st, ataricorp, to.jerry, etc.) which are subdivided into topics (i.e. atari.st/c.language, atari.st/news, ataricorp/announcements, etc.). Once in a conference you can resign from topics that you're not interested in. Then you can program a terminal program's macro (i.e. a Flash DO file) to log in, FILE ALL on all your topics, dump the file to your computer, then log out. Now you have the best of both -- low cost access and high quality information. > BTW. I agree that Atari's doing an OK job spreading info almost > everywhere they can. Thanks Jeff. Speaking of online activities, I have 2 new ones to announce: On GEnie, Atari Corp. is becoming the official co-manager of the Atari roundtables there as of February 2. To kick off our first week's activities, there will be an online, realtime conference with Atari president Sam Tramiel on the 4th of February, starting at 7 PM Pacific time (10 PM Eastern). All are welcome. On BIX, Atari also has our own conference, called "ataricorp". For the month of February we are setting up a special topic for two of Atari's graphics wizards, Dave "NEOchrome" Staugas and Jim "VDI" Eisenstein. The topic will tentatively be called "smoke'n'mirror" and will cover graphics tricks and techniques on the ST.
afo@s.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (01/23/87)
In article <1274@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >Gee Neil, you should have come over to the Commodore booth - we were online, >matter of fact we wouldn't have come if we had to stay off the net for more ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >than a day or two. Oh grow up George. Don't you have anything else better to do with your time? Like maybe improving some aspect of the Amiga? Neil is a busy man and obviously has more important things to worry about than arranging Usenet access for a couple of days. After all, I'm sure he could have dialed up just like you probably did. I guess everyone now knows where Commodore's priorities lie. Also, I gather that Neil was not the only one who didn't "stop by" the Commodore booth. After all, he was too busy talking to people to stop by. You and the other boys must have had plenty of time to read rec.humor (or is that comp.sys.amiga?). Why don't you stay in your own newsgroup and leave us alone unless you have something useful to say? PPPPPPPPP Alan Davis PPPPPPPPPP Purdue University Computing Center PP PP PP PP Usenet: {backbone}!pur-ee!s.cc.purdue.edu!afo PPPPPPPP BITNET: ADAVIS@PURCCVM PPPPPPP PP PP Disclaimer: I don't agree with Purdue's opinions, PPPPPP they don't agree with mine. PPPPPP
jons@islenet.UUCP (01/28/87)
In article <44@s.cc.purdue.edu> afo@s.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (Alan Davis) writes: >In article <1274@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >>Gee Neil, you should have come over to the Commodore booth - we were online, >>matter of fact we wouldn't have come if we had to stay off the net for more > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >>than a day or two. > >Oh grow up George. Don't you have anything else better to do with your time? >Like maybe improving some aspect of the Amiga? Neil is a busy man and >obviously has more important things to worry about than arranging Usenet >access for a couple of days. After all, I'm sure he could have dialed up Pretty strong words there -- sounds like a Bible thumping Atarist to me. I am agreeing with you, but I think you should have put a **FLAME ON** to warn us (or George) at the beginning. Is Purdue getting to you? Is it still as boring as I remember? Do you like corn? Is the Engineering mall building still there? Will Commodore last the year? Should Atari buy out the Amiga? Tune in tomorrow for the continuing saga... Aloha, Jonathan Spangler {ihnp4,vortex,dual}!islenet!jons
hutch@sdcsvax.UUCP (02/02/87)
In article <3069@islenet.UUCP> jons@islenet.UUCP (Jonathan Spangler) writes: ?In article <44@s.cc.purdue.edu> afo@s.cc.purdue.edu.UUCP (Alan Davis) writes: ?>In article <1274@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: ?>>Gee Neil, you should have come over to the Commodore booth - we were online, ?>>matter of fact we wouldn't have come if we had to stay off the net for more ?> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ?>>than a day or two. ?> ?>Oh grow up George. Don't you have anything else better to do with your time? ?>... ?Pretty strong words there -- sounds like a Bible thumping Atarist to me. ?I am agreeing with you, but I think you should have put a **FLAME ON** ?to warn us (or George) at the beginning. Oh George, may the great protector ":-)" open up upon your postings and protect you from the rabble and these fine gentlemen :-). Seriously folks, the Amiga is a fine computer which is just getting its stride. All this hope for the atari is nice, but come on the amiga is a small business machine for the techno age. Small bands, tv commercial graphics, teleprompters, computers for the blind, desktop publishing, etc.. Please pardon my enthusiasm, it may be excessive. There are many possibilities here. -- Jim Hutchison UUCP: {dcdwest,ucbvax}!sdcsvax!hutch ARPA: Hutch@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu Never seems to be enough resolution, memory, or speed, now why is that?