appelbau@topaz.UUCP (02/12/87)
In the Feb. issue of BYTE Dave Menconi reviews the 1040st. He critizies it for not having a RF modulator. Does the AMIGA or the Mac have one? NO! Neither of them have standrard ports!! The ST does!! He also critizies the read/write speed of the ST. He does not mention that the ST took the least amount of time to recalculate a spreadsheet! In his conclusion he says: "The Atari 1040st is an excellent value with just a few problems that mar an otherwise ideal product. These include the lack of an RF modulator that whould allow you to use it with a television set (Who would want to???), the possibility of damaging disks if you exceed the desktop limit of folders..." -- Marc L. Appelbaum "Insanity is just a state of mind" Arpa: marc@aim.rutgers.edu Uucp:rutgers!ru-blue!appelbaum
ewhac@well.UUCP (02/13/87)
[ Can you perform the Heimlich Maneuver on the line eater? ] In article <9171@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) writes: > >In the Feb. issue of BYTE Dave Menconi reviews the 1040st. He >critizies it for not having a RF modulator. Does the AMIGA or the Mac >have one? NO! Neither of them have standrard ports!! The ST does!! > The ST is a low cost machine. All other low cost machines seem to have RF modulators in them, so it probably seemed logical to the columnist that the ST should have one as well. Of course, this may not have been possible since the ST doesn't adhere to NTSC (as far as I know). Note: while you can't get an RF modulator of any kind for the ST, you can for the Amiga. Standard ports? Hmmm. The monitor port looks unlike anything I've ever seen before. >He also critizies the read/write speed of the ST. He does not mention >that the ST took the least amount of time to recalculate a >spreadsheet! > In the short time that I had the use of an ST, I also noticed the poor disk I/O. It seems that TOS is not doing any track or sector buffering at all. It seemed to me that, when I was transfering a file at 300 baud out of the ST, the machine would pause every 200 chars or so to get a sector off the disk. I personally found this irritating, slowing down an already slow transfer. >In his conclusion he says: "The Atari 1040st is an excellent value >with just a few problems that mar an otherwise ideal product. These >include the lack of an RF modulator that whould allow you to use it >with a television set (Who would want to???), the possibility of >damaging disks if you exceed the desktop limit of folders..." > I found the review very fair, even if I am an Amigan. The 1040ST is, indeed, an excellent value, with a few bugs. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ ________ ___ Leo L. Schwab \ /___--__ The Guy in The Cape ___ ___ /\ ---##\ ihnp4!ptsfa!well!ewhac / X \_____ | __ _---)) ..or.. / /_\-- -----+==____\ // \ _ well ---\ ___ ( o---+------------------O/ \/ \ dual ----> !unicom!ewhac \ / ___ \_ (`o ) hplabs -/ ("AE-wack") ____ \___/ \_/ Recumbent Bikes: "Work FOR? I don't work FOR The _O_n_l_y Way To Fly! anybody! I'm just having fun."
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (02/13/87)
In article <9171@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) writes: > >In the Feb. issue of BYTE Dave Menconi reviews the 1040st. He >critizies it for not having a RF modulator. Does the AMIGA or the Mac >have one? NO! Neither of them have standrard ports!! The ST does!! > Marc L. Appelbaum "Insanity is just a state of mind" Please! Most magazine reviews contains substantial factual errors and editorial biases or oversigts. Frequently, they are produced working under a deadline, by a person of moderate technical abilities who has only limted experience with the equipment. Sometimes the equipment does not represent production features. Often the article is dated or based on dated information. If you have fault with an article the best course is to send a clearly reasoned letter to the editor and perhaps you will get some satisfaction. HOWEVER (slight flame) please verify your "facts" first. 1) Not all 1040's are equipped with rf modulators - for those ST's not equipped with modulators, are modulators available? An external modulator is available from Commodore for the Amiga. 2) Standards are *UNSPEAKABLY* relative. The ST conforms more closely to the defacto standards in the PC area than does the Amiga. Neither the ST or Amiga "Centronics Compatible" printer connectors are capable of meeting the specifications for driving a real Centronics Printer! Both have the same signals, but the Amiga does require a different cable than IBM or the ST... Both the ST and the Amiga have a subset of the RS232 control signals. The sex is different. It is a subject of great religious controversy which is the correct sex for a terminal or computer. Even the RS232-C standard seems subject to interpretation on this issue. The Amiga does include some definitly non-standard signals on the connector. (slap that wrist...) My intent is not to start any argument about these issues, just to point out that things are not as black and white on these and other issues as your posting asserted. Flame wars are often stated by confusion and half-facts stated with undue heat and authority... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
kgschlueter@watrose.UUCP (02/13/87)
Actually, although the Amiga doesn't come with an RF modulator, it is available as an add on (it uses the composite video output). Furthermore, what do you mean by the Amiga not having standard ports? It has a serial and Centronics parallel which are usable with generic modems and printers.
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (02/16/87)
> >> In the short time that I had the use of an ST, I also noticed the >>poor disk I/O. > > Here's were partisanship rears it's ugly head. In the short time I used > an Amiga, I was absolutely astounded at how long it took to put a disk > directory up on the screen-- each silly icon (they're silly on the ST, too) > took *seconds* to appear! TOS may have slow disk I/O, but I'm not sure I'd > trade it for slow file seek time. Figure out how many files need opening > during a standard C compile/link cycle, and you may be able to appreciate > the problem. *DISCLAIMER* This is intended only as a point of clarification on the Amiga DOS structure, not in any way as an attempt to start even the sligtest battle! Anyway, the above paragraph discussing both file seek times and directory times has a few problems. First of all, directories on an Amiga are the absolute slowest part of the DOS, no questions about it. The reason behind this is, obviously, the way the files are stored under the directories. Each directory contains its own name, some accounting data, and a hash table of 72 longwords. Each longword can point to the header of another file item, either another directory or a file. To list out all the files in a directory, you've essentially got to start at the first table entry and check if its NULL. If not, read the block it points to (file or directory), and get the file name. Then check the hash chain field of this entry. If its non-NULL, then you read the block it points to. Once you get a NULL chain entry, you take the next hash table link, and start over. After 72 total entries in the main directory block, you have information on all of the files contained in the directory (There are simple DOS calls that do all of the dirty work for you, you merely ask for the next entry. But what I've described is the work that actually happens, down at the disk level). So if you've go 50 files in a directory, you could possibly have to move the disk head 50 times to get a directory. If you use the CLI command "Dir", this looks even slower, since the files are all alphabetically sorted, so you don't see anything until the last entry is read. Where this scheme wins is in finding individual file names, like in the case of a C compilation. In this case, the DOS applies a hashing function to the name you give, which hashes to 1 of the 72 possible links in a directory. Chances are, the link you get back points directly to the file you want. In very large directories, you may have a few hashing collisions, but all in all, this is a very fast way to find the actual file IF the name is known (I won't go and explain hashing theory, but you should get the idea). The other big advantage of this system is that files can be found independently of their directories. So if for some reason the directory entry is wiped out on a disk, its a trivial matter to restore all of the files it contained without losing anything. > - Joel Plutchak > uucp: {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!oyster > ARPA: oyster@unix.macc.wisc.edu > BITNET: plutchak@wiscmacc -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Haynie {caip,ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveh "You can keep my things, they've come to take me home" -Peter Gabriel ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
manis@ubc-cs.UUCP (02/17/87)
Getting back to the original remark about the review (and away from the ST/Amiga schism), I too was rather disappointed with the review. My disappointment stems not from what was said, but what was not said. For one thing, there was almost no discussion of software development tools. Given BYTE's audience, and given the fact that anyone who only wants application software will more likely buy a PClone or a Mac, one would expect that some discussion of what kind of programming environment the machine can offer is appropriate. It would also have been useful to include some comparisons of GEM on the ST and GEM on the PC. Fundamentally, the review did not give a typical BYTE reader an answer as to whether the machine was worth buying, and, if so, what its real strengths (and weaknesses) are.
john13@garfield.UUCP (02/20/87)
In article <9171@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> Marc Appelbaum writes: >In the Feb. issue of BYTE Dave Menconi reviews the 1040st. He >critizies it for not having a RF modulator. Does the AMIGA or the Mac >have one? NO! Neither of them have standrard ports!! The ST does!! ^^ If you mean built in. If you mean "can you hook up an Amiga to a tv using a $10 rf modulator without having to modify the machine in any way?" then the answer is yes. John