cw@vaxwaller.UUCP (02/18/87)
I have a plain vanilla 520 ST, and a product I'd be interested in is an external RAM disk. Something I could hook up to the cartridge port or DMA port that would appear to be another disk drive to the system, but inside which would be just RAM, a couple of megabytes or more, presumably cheaper than a hard disc, and quieter. When I wanted to do some work, I'd copy the files off of my floppies onto it at the beginning of a session, and save 'em off at the end, just like any RAM disk. Anybody out there know if there's such a product already? Regards, Carl Weidling
preston@felix.UUCP (02/20/87)
> I have a plain vanilla 520 ST, and a product I'd be interested in >is an external RAM disk. Something I could hook up to the cartridge port >or DMA port that would appear to be another disk drive to the system, but >inside which would be just RAM, a couple of megabytes or more, presumably >cheaper than a hard disc, and quieter. When I wanted to do some work, I'd >copy the files off of my floppies onto it at the beginning of a session, >and save 'em off at the end, just like any RAM disk. There is no way a product like this is going to cost significantly less than a hard disk. The memory is relatively cheap, but once you add the case, power supply and interface logic it's going to cost you nearly as much (or more) than a hard disk. If all you what is a couple of megabytes of ram disk then your best bet is probably one of the _internal_ memory expansions for the ST. Personally I'm hoping to upgrade my 1040 to 4 megabytes when the 1 Mbit DRAMs drop in price some. BTW, I think I've seen an external ramdisk for the Macintosh. If I remember correctly, it was _more_ expensive than a hard disk...
john@viper.UUCP (02/21/87)
Yup, such a device exists. It's called the PolyDisk. It's put out by: Polyware ST 5715 Horning Rd. Kent, Ohio 44240 (Phone: 216-673-5591) It currently only comes in a 512k size, but then, it only costs $200 + P&H. You can also order it with a 5-hour battery backup, and/or a clock for a fairly small additional price. ($34.50 and/or $28 respectivly) Rumor has it that you may be able to expand the unit with a bit of hardware know-how, and also that they're working on an extended 2meg version, but there's no telling when that version will be out. I've been thinking of getting one myself. A half meg ramdisk would be good enough for 90%+ of the things I do normaly anyhow and it can be configured to also use some of main memory for larger disks. (I don't think I'd want to go that route since the data stored in main ram is most likely lost is you have to reset and is definately lost if you have power glitch even if the external ramdisk itself is battery backed-up...) If anyone gets (or already has) one of these, I would certanly appreceate word back on how well it works.....
braner@batcomputer.UUCP (02/21/87)
[]
The MSDOS add-on for the ST was supposed to have up to 768K of RAM.
It could serve as an ideal external RAMdisk (while you're not using
MSDOS) - reset-proof and bullet-proof (a buggy program could not
damage the data on it in almost all cases). (When running MSDOS
you could use the ST RAM as a RAMdisk...).
BUT: the rumors on that device have been discontinued since the
Atari PC was announced. I hope it is still planned, and I would
really like to hear an official word about its current status.
- Moshe Braner
Optimist: A person who pays $1000 for a complicated
high-tech device with no documentation.
Pessimist: A person who pays $2500 for a similar device, with
a guaranteed $1000 upgrade path 18 months later.tech@usceast.UUCP (02/23/87)
In article <2315@felix.UUCP> preston@felix.UUCP (Preston L. Bannister) writes: >> I have a plain vanilla 520 ST, and a product I'd be interested in >>is an external RAM disk. Something I could hook up to the cartridge port > >There is no way a product like this is going to cost significantly >less than a hard disk. The memory is relatively cheap, but once you >add the case, power supply and interface logic it's going to cost you >nearly as much (or more) than a hard disk. > But I have to disagree, The cartridge port will support a ramdisk without the power supply and a cheap plastic case only costs a couple of bucks. Since I am writing this on a 1Meg system with a Ramdisk in the cartridge port. That is, with a total of 1.5Meg of ram. I agree that it CAN be expensive however the harddisks that are available for the ST all seem to use steppers for the head positioner and are very slow compared to the voice coil units which cost twice as much. I do alot of compiling using the MW compiler and the ramdisk speeds it up wonderfully. The fact is that if you are usually using just one enviornment 3 or 4 megs of ram in place of a harddisk is an ideal solution. Remember that whenever you access a HARD Disk that the DMA channel cannot be used for screen updates. With a ramdisk this can be worked around. Bill Wood.
tech@usceast.UUCP (02/23/87)
In article <556@viper.UUCP> john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) writes: >Yup, such a device exists. It's called the PolyDisk. It's put out by: > Polyware ST > 5715 Horning Rd. > Kent, Ohio 44240 > (Phone: 216-673-5591) > I have been using this product for about a week and it seems to work very well indeed. I have experienced very few problems with it. I just wish it was larger. I expect that I will be able to fix that in the near future. It is just the ticket for use with the MTC-shell since it let's me put the compiler temp files and some of the common utilities outside of main memory. You are correct about using system ram. It will allow this but I don't recommend it since the system image will be corrupted by bad code. The external memory will not be munged however and a reboot will install the driver and your files will still be intact. Bill Wood
john@viper.UUCP (02/25/87)
A question to Bill Wood on the PolyDisk ramdisk cartridge:
Bill, I've heard a few rumors that the documantation included with the
PolyDisk includes enough hardware documentation to allow extending the
amount of ram in the cart. Is this true and if so, how difficult does
it look? Is there any indication as to what will need to be changed in the
driver to have it support the extended memory?
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!johnneil@atari.UUCP (02/25/87)
In article <234@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, braner@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (braner) writes: > The MSDOS add-on for the ST was supposed to have up to 768K of RAM. > It could serve as an ideal external RAMdisk (while you're not using > MSDOS) - reset-proof and bullet-proof (a buggy program could not > damage the data on it in almost all cases). > > BUT: the rumors on that device have been discontinued since the > Atari PC was announced. I hope it is still planned, and I would > really like to hear an official word about its current status. First of all, I don't know where Moshe heard about the amount of RAM in the planned emulator, but I believe it will be a little less than what he says. Secondly, there is still ongoing development of PC emulators for the ST. Notice the plural. At this time we are working on both a hardware solution and a software solution. The schedule looks like both may reach completion at around the same time. The software solution has the edge in terms of price, but the hardware solution should offer better performance in many cases (plus the extra advantage Moshe points out in auxiliary uses for the PC box's RAM). More word to follow... -- --->Neil @ Atari ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
brinsmead@calgary.UUCP (02/26/87)
In article <2326@usceast.UUCP>, tech@usceast.UUCP (Bill Wood) writes: > ... I am writing this on a 1Meg system with a Ramdisk in the cartridge port. Where did you get this marvelous device? Is it the "polydisk" somebody mentioned, or is it another product? Where do I order, and how much does it cost? (I am assuming, perhaps without reason, this is NOT homemade.) Mark Brinsmead.
tech@usceast.UUCP (03/01/87)
In article <587@viper.UUCP> john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) writes: >A question to Bill Wood on the PolyDisk ramdisk cartridge: > Bill, I've heard a few rumors that the documantation included with the >PolyDisk includes enough hardware documentation to allow extending the >amount of ram in the cart. Is this true and if so, how difficult does >it look? Is there any indication as to what will need to be changed in the >driver to have it support the extended memory? > >--- >John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP) >Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems >UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john Hello! Well! I must say the interest in the ramdisk cartridge is most amazing. In answer to your question, no they don't supply information on how to extend memory nor do they supply driver source. I called and talked to them when the unit came in and they were not real excited about releasing source. This is stupid since the driver is less than 2k long and is not going to be to much of a problem to sort out. I am having problems getting dissasm the disassembler posted a while back to do it for me. I haven't checked into it very well but am suspecting that the dissassembler either doesn't like the fact that the driver does not allocate any space for the bss or else it is upset about the super calls in the code since it will dissassemble itself. I don't have the circuit figured out completely yet either so the following is possibly subject to change. The Polyram has a 4-meg address space. That is they (I think) support 32 64k blocks. Memory reads are performed in the first bank of the cartridge address space and they map the second bank of the cartridge for the writes. I am not sure yet how they are doing this. The 4-meg above came from a conversation with their engineers. There is a way according to them to piggy-back more rams onto the board but it requires cutting traces and they were not interested in telling me how. The circuit consists of 31 IC's of which 16 are 256k dram. Five of the chips are dual 4 to 1 multiplexers which I believe are used to multiplex the addresses into the ram. I believe that the circuit can be broken down into 4 major component areas: refresh timer, clock control, address multiplexers and ram. This would make sence if they were decoding a one meg address space as a piggyback expansion would suggest. Another piece of evidence is that it takes 10 bits at a time for address generation in a one meg space and they have 10 total multiplexers. They use a ls123 timer for refresh timeout. That is they do nothing at all about refresh when the system is running since the activity on the cartridge address buss is enough to refresh the ram. The timer is necessary to keep the memory alive when a reset occurs since the address buss 'hangs' while the button is held down, and of course with a battery backup it becomes necessary. The clock control is just a mapping of the highest bit of the address to a clock chip expansion board. I am pretty sure of this since their people said that you would have to disable the clock control to go from a 2-meg space to a 4-meg space. The rest of the chips are simple ttl glue and a couple of byte wide latches. I tend to think that synthesizing a write line is pretty easy if you are willing to live with two or possibly three cartridge reads for every write into the external address space. A base address with an offset of 0-255 would allow the address buss to be used as a 'data' buss, it then becomes necessary to do something similar to setup an 'address' buss and a write line. All in all, I think the circuit is pretty simple and elegant. I can kind of understand their unwillingness to disclose to much since there are sure to be several 'imatations' in the near future. I am going to expand this one to one meg just as soon as I figure out how since I am about 200k short of what it takes to get all of the compiler and utilities out there that I want. I have not benchmarked this unit extensively but it is slower than eternal.prg by what seems to be a factor of 2. This makes sence if they must do two or several reads to the cartridge port to do a write. In closing, I like this unit a lot and would recommend it to the rest of you. In a related matter, I have been porting the UNIX V7 compiler to the ST for about the past year. I have been using it for the past several months and it seems to work. I could KILL Atari for making text files use \c\r as a line terminator. The problems this creates are amazing. But on with the tale, This is a true 32-bit int compiler that as you would expect runs a little slower than say MWC if you don't declare shorts every chance you can. It will however handle really large programs and will allow you to build an array that is as large as the memory you have. I feel that 32-bit ints are necessary to port some of the better software -- common lisp comes to mind as does gnuemacs. Anyway, I called ATT about this to find out what restrictions there are on V7 and was told that I could pass this work on to anyone with a source license to V7 or greater. Well that includes just about any site on usenet at this point in time. What's this got to do with you? Well...I would be willing to give this stuff away but don't quite know how to go about it. I suppose that if demand is not to heavy I could make a tape or two assuming that a copy of a source license came with the tape. Cross compiling on a Vax has it's advantages are any of you interested? Frankly, there is still more to be done on this, the VDI-AES interface is not complete for instance. If you have any suggestions send mail and I will try to figure out what to do. Bill Wood (!usceast!tech)
tech@usceast.UUCP (03/01/87)
In article <818@vaxb.calgary.UUCP> brinsmead@calgary.UUCP writes: >In article <2326@usceast.UUCP>, tech@usceast.UUCP (Bill Wood) writes: >> ... I am writing this on a 1Meg system with a Ramdisk in the cartridge port. > > Where did you get this marvelous device? Is it the "polydisk" somebody > > Mark Brinsmead. Yup, it's the same. I have just posted a 'review' so you might look for it. I forgot to mention their address however so here it is. POLYWARE_ST 5715 Horning Rd. Kent, Ohio 44240 You can also get it from Alpha Systems. I don't have there address handy but I am sure they are running an add in ST-Log so you can find it there. Bill Wood (!usceast!tech)
leavens@atari.UUCP (03/05/87)
>Atari MS-DOS emulator cancelled in light of the Atari PC... > Nope. We're going ahead with it, and I'll post more information as soon as I have any. --alex @ Atari BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2160