appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) (03/16/87)
Well, I went to the Eastern Pa. ATARI Expo and spoke to Mark Jensen, Tech Support specialist for ATARI Corp. When I asked him about the 68020 box I couldn't get any answers. Also at his Question Mark seminar, someone else asked a question about the box. Mark's only response yes <smile>. I understand that the box is official unannouced, so I'm not mad, just a little disappointed. Now for a suggestion. Mark did say that the box would only use the ST's I/O ports. Well why not put a few RS-232 ports on the box. This would allow you to hook your 8-bit up to your ST as a terminal. It could also be used in a University Microlab, for running a BBS and allowing console logins. Another use would be in an office situtation. This way many people can access the same files, share printers, etc. It seems that this is VERY possible under System V UNIX. At the Desktop Publishing seminar we saw output from ATARI's laserprinter. The quality of the output was exaclty the same (if not better) than that of the Apple Laserwriter. The Laserprinter can print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X 300, you'll need about 4 megs. This is because the LaserPrinter has no memory of it's own. It uses the ST to do all the work. When we asked the ATARI rep. at the seminar (I forget his name), about memory upgrades he said ATARI does CONDONE upgrades from 3rd party companies. I saw a BLITTER in action! Atari was running two demos of birds flying across the screen. One was on a normal 1040, the other was using a 1040 with a blitter. The one with the blitter was MUCH faster. -- Marc L. Appelbaum "If life is a game of chess Arpa:appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu and you and I are pawns Uucp:rutgers!topaz!appelbau what happens when we get to GEnie: M.APPELBAUM the other side of the board?"
chapman@fornax.uucp (John Chapman) (03/17/87)
> . . . > At the Desktop Publishing seminar we saw output from ATARI's > laserprinter. The quality of the output was exaclty the same (if not > better) than that of the Apple Laserwriter. The Laserprinter can > print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X > 300, you'll need about 4 megs. This is because the LaserPrinter has This is not the first time I have seen this number (4mb) and it is way off the mark. A standard 8.5"*11" page requires 300*8.5 * 300*11 bits =2550 * 3300 bits =8415000 bits =1050000 bytes approximately Add about 30% for legal size. These are actually inflated since the canon engines only get within about a 1/4" of the edge of the page. Add what you want for font storage and you are still way, way below 4mb. > no memory of it's own. It uses the ST to do all the work. When we > asked the ATARI rep. at the seminar (I forget his name), about memory > upgrades he said ATARI does CONDONE upgrades from 3rd party companies. > . . > -- > Marc L. Appelbaum "If life is a game of chess > Arpa:appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu and you and I are pawns > Uucp:rutgers!topaz!appelbau what happens when we get to > GEnie: M.APPELBAUM the other side of the board?" *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
akw@osupyr.UUCP (FarOff MicroDesigns) (03/18/87)
In article <10162@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) writes: >[..] >print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X >300, you'll need about 4 megs. This is because the LaserPrinter has >no memory of it's own. It uses the ST to do all the work. When we >asked the ATARI rep. at the seminar (I forget his name), about memory >upgrades he said ATARI does CONDONE upgrades from 3rd party companies. > This is (or I think is) *slightly* incorrect. An Apple LaserWriter does not have 4Mb of RAM, nor does a stock Mac Plus. The Mac (and hopefully the Atari laser printer) takes PostScript input, which is an object and line-oriented printer graphics language. It doesn't require a complete bit-map of what- ever you want to print out. This saves the hassle (and slow speed) of trying to bit-map an 8 1/2 x 11 page w/ 300x300 dpi in RAM instead of doing it by objects. *Hopefully* this will be an option on the Atari printer so that programs that produce PostScript output (i.e. Publishing Partner, Graphic Artist, etc.) A bitmap is too inefficient, expensive (at this time) and *slow*. I hope that Atari will consider the PostScript or QMS language for its printer. Sheez! Even IBM is going to use PostScript on its laser according to what I've heard! >I saw a BLITTER in action! For goodness' sake HOW WAS IT? And when can we see one in our local Atari dealership (OK Atari...enough Real Soon Now's and some concrete dates...like Summer '87, Autumn '87...but a _real_ date.) Andy Weaver / akw@osupyr.UUCP / 614.293.1195 - 614.292.1741 / ========> IX0YE The Ohio State University / Columbus, OH / "Go Bucks." / Peanut Butter & Jelly "Like cold water to the bones, so is good news from a distant land." Prov25.25
appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) (03/18/87)
In article <110@osupyr.UUCP>, akw@osupyr.UUCP (FarOff MicroDesigns) writes: > In article <10162@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) writes: > >[..] > >print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X > >300, you'll need about 4 megs. > This is (or I think is) *slightly* incorrect. An Apple LaserWriter does not > have 4Mb of RAM, nor does a stock Mac Plus. > > >I saw a BLITTER in action! > > For goodness' sake HOW WAS IT? And when can we see one in our local > Atari dealership (OK Atari...enough Real Soon Now's and some concrete > dates...like Summer '87, Autumn '87...but a _real_ date.) > The figures I recieved as to the amount of memory it takes for the laser printer came right from the horse's mouth. One of the members of the Atari engineering staff gave me the figure of 4 megs. As for the blitter, we saw it running a graphic demo. I would say it was at least 3-4 times faster than the normal ST. Also accoriding to Mark Jensen the new ROMs will fix some TOS bugs, he also said they are working on a fix for the 40 folder limit. Release dates for the Laser Printer, MEGA's and blitter were said to be around late summer '87. -- Marc L. Appelbaum "If life is a game of chess Arpa:appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu and you and I are pawns Uucp:rutgers!topaz!appelbau what happens when we get to GEnie: M.APPELBAUM the other side of the board?"
daemon@watmath.UUCP (03/18/87)
In article <10162@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> you write: >Mark did say that the box would only use the ST's I/O ports. Well why >not put a few RS-232 ports on the box. This would allow you to hook >your 8-bit up to your ST as a terminal. It could also be used in a >University Microlab, for running a BBS and allowing console logins. >Another use would be in an office situtation. This way many people >can access the same files, share printers, etc. It seems that this is >VERY possible under System V UNIX. I'm a little leary of this suggestion. The 68020 box would be a wonderful, single-user, Unix workstation. Adding multiple serial ports to allow a lot of multi-user use would change this inexpensive Unix workstation into an "Office" computer, with a corresponding increase in price. Atari would have to pay AT&T for additional licenses; there would be more gunk in the drivers and hardware to suppport the extra serial ports, etc., etc. I would like a couple of serial ports for one extra terminal, a modem, etc., but nothing more. Atari has often been the David of the computer industry; I would prefer that the 68020 box remains affordable and doesn't turn into another Goliath of a computer. Mike Berkley, University of Waterloo UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,utcsri,utzoo}!watmath!watsup!mberkley Bitnet: mberkley%watsup%waterloo@csnet-relay.ARPA
leavens@atari.UUCP (03/20/87)
in article <110@osupyr.UUCP>, akw@osupyr.UUCP (FarOff MicroDesigns) says: > > In article <10162@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L. Appelbaum) writes: >>[..] >>print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X >>300, you'll need about 4 megs. > This is (or I think is) *slightly* incorrect. An Apple LaserWriter does not > have 4Mb of RAM, nor does a stock Mac Plus. The Mac (and hopefully the Atari > laser printer) takes PostScript input, which is an object and line-oriented > printer graphics language. It doesn't require a complete bit-map of what- > ever you want to print out. This saves the hassle (and slow speed) of > trying to bit-map an 8 1/2 x 11 page w/ 300x300 dpi in RAM instead of doing > it by objects. Well, I don't know what the final decision is on how we are going to map images--however, we are already supporting GDOS and GEM Metafiles, so that programs like Easy Draw II work _beautifully_ on the laser printer (I know, I'm using the one in the lab to do some stuff. Gorgeous? Makes you wanna cry, it does.) >>I saw a BLITTER in action! > > For goodness' sake HOW WAS IT? And when can we see one in our local > Atari dealership (OK Atari...enough Real Soon Now's and some concrete > dates...like Summer '87, Autumn '87...but a _real_ date.) If I knew when, I'd tell you, honest. And as soon as I _do_ know, I'll pass along that information. As to how it looks....well, basically, it looks great! That thing _cooks_ along... -- --alex @ Atari {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer BIX: alexl. GEnie:ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp:(408)-745-2006 "Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers."
TYSON@SRI-STRIPE.ARPA.UUCP (03/26/87)
Date: 18 Mar 87 01:52:31 GMT
From: cbatt!osu-eddie!osupyr!akw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (FarOff MicroDesigns)
... The Mac (and hopefully the Atari
laser printer) takes PostScript input, which is an object and line-oriented
printer graphics language. It doesn't require a complete bit-map of what-
ever you want to print out. This saves the hassle (and slow speed) of
trying to bit-map an 8 1/2 x 11 page w/ 300x300 dpi in RAM instead of doing
it by objects. *Hopefully* this will be an option on the Atari printer
so that programs that produce PostScript output (i.e. Publishing Partner,
Graphic Artist, etc.) A bitmap is too inefficient, expensive (at this
time) and *slow*. I hope that Atari will consider the PostScript or
QMS language for its printer.
...
There are other people on this mailing lists who are experts but since I
am not with any manufacturer of laser printers, I can make comments freely.
The above implication that bitmaps are slow is wrong. I can print a
bitmap of 1K by 1K pixels from my lisp machine to an Imagen printer
(non-Postscript (they have their own DDL)), standard Canon 8ppm print
engine with a 68K running it, I believe) and have it in my hands in
under 50 seconds (including processing time on the lispm, transit time,
and processing time on the Imagen). (Imagen has an even faster
processor but we don't have it). I once tried the same thing to a Apple
laserwriter and it took 4.5 minutes (same print engine, I don't know how
much time extra was spent in shipping the pixels from lisp machine to
print engine.. at 9600 baud, it would be under 2 minutes for a net 2.5
minutes).
I believe the general consensus is that Postscript processing by the
printer is one of the bottlenecks.
Most printer output would not be bitmaps. When I print 8.5x11" pages
of 8-point text (all downloaded fonts, in my case) (about 100 lines/page,
130 columns), our Imagen 20ppm printer prints at very close to (exactly?)
the print engine's speed (20 pages/minute).
But this forum is not the right place to discuss (or flame) about the
differences between Postscript and other alternatives.
As I understand the press release, the ST will be the CPU driving the
print engine itself. (The MAC does not; the Apple Laserwriter does.
The Laserwriter I presume has to make at least a raster-by-raster bitmap
because the laser gets only one chance at each point on the drum (ie,
each point on the paper). Creating an entire bitmap sounds easier when
you are really driving the laser.) I would assume the ST could have
whatever code loaded the user wants to do that. I wouldn't be surprised
if there was more than one alternative available eventually. (I have no
knowledge about what is really going on at Atari other than what I have
seen on this list.)