MAILER-DAEMON@fingate.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) (01/18/87)
----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>> RCPT To:<oar> <<< 550 <oar>... User unknown 550 <oar%hut.uucp@fingate>... User unknown ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: by santra.UUCP (5.51/6.3.TeKoLa) id AA11413; Fri, 16 Jan 87 17:29:33 +0200 From: <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU> Message-Id: <8701161529.AA11413@santra.UUCP> Received: by fingate Fri Jan 16 17:29:27 from MAILER@FINHUTC.BITNET via rscs BSMTP. Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 0346; Fri, 16 Jan 87 11:43:32 FIN Date: Thu 15 Jan 87 16:53:56 PST Reply-To: <Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu> Sender: Atari ST users forum <INFO16@FINHUTC> Comments: X-To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16> Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU> Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #23 To: <fingate!atari520>, <fingate!oar%hut.uucp>, <fingate!tripmgr%sampo.fudec> Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<oar%hut.uucp@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fin Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, January 15, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 23 This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield Today's Topics: Yet another hard disk query Re: MINIX What Graphics for the Mega's ? Something old, something new (a proposal) Re: Re: Hard disk questions (40 folder limit) Re: printers programming the dma port Csd - C source debugger booting off a hard disk. Re: resource files Re: Atari rumor Re: Screen Saver? More on Alcyon double float array problem Re: Mac Emulator (idea!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Jan 87 01:04:58 EST From: drukman%UMass.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU (Jonathan S. Drukman) Subject: Yet another hard disk query To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu My friend owns a Supra hard drive. After reading all the letters on this list about the 40-folder limit, I warned him about the dangers. He sent me the following reply: >Also I would like to point out that from common sense, there is no way the >desktop can have any knowledge about the folders on a disk that has never >been opened. For example, lets say I boot my hard disk, then close the >floppy window and insert a disk with 39 folders on it into the drive. NOw >assuming I never open that disk, there is no possible way for the computer >to see those and be affected by them. > However, I am going to bring drive C down below 30 folders just in case... Is this true? I gathered from the letters that just HAVING the folders around was a danger... one last thing, to test the bug, he created a floppy with 59 folders on it (he brought the hard drive down first, of course)... When he did a SHOW INFO, it reported 38 folders... --jon drukman ARPA: jsd%oz@mit-mc BITNET: drukman@umass "Do do the cruel immersion Do do the flaming tie" - shriekback ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 13:50:54 GMT From: mcnc!ecsvax!harris@seismo.css.gov (Mark Harris) Subject: Re: MINIX To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <1028@botter.cs.vu.nl>, ast@botter.cs.vu.nl (Andy Tanenbaum) writes: > Q2: How compatible does a machine have to be to run MINIX? > A2: It needs a NEC uD765 chip as floppy disk controller, a Motorola 6845 as > video controller, etc. Will MINIX run with an Enhanced Graphics Adapter? My system has an EGA/monochrome monitor. - Mark Harris, Appalachian State University ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 15:14:13 GMT From: mcvax!prlb2!bernard@seismo.css.gov (Bernard Yves) Subject: What Graphics for the Mega's ? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu The new MegaST's seem great : they have many interesting new features but I'd like to have more informations about their new graphics. Some postings say there will be the blitter chip built-in, some other no. Some rumors say that there will be an expansion card with a graphic chip and allowing a 1024 * 1024 resolution on a monochrome monitor. So, what is the truth ? If we only consider the hardware, we nearly have everything for a good small low-cost workstation : memory (2Meg, 4Meg), power (68000/88020). But what about graphics ? When will we have a screen (monochrome is enough) with at least 1024*1024 resolution, good enough for true desktop publishing and CAD applications ? What will be its price ? What are the graphics improvements in the Mega family (if there are any) ? Yves Bernard Philips Research Labs, Brussels. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jan 87 01:18:22 GMT From: bzs@bu-cs.bu.edu (Barry Shein) Subject: Something old, something new (a proposal) To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Here's a wierd idealistic idea... Let's face it, in the micro world we are destined to "get stuck" with aging technology (ie. anything more than 6 months old.) The worst thing is to create a back pressure on innovative vendors to hold back things so old boxes (which may contain honest errors of design) might be upgraded or kept compatible. So we need a solution that can be applied successfully over and over again (other than whining every time :-) Here's mine: 1. Offer a trade-in on the last model as a substantial discount against the new model. 2. Sell these used systems at their steeply discounted price back to schools who can (should be able to...) make good use of them. 3. Get the tax boys (and girls) to maximize that spread by having the government kick in in the form of a tax deduction to the company (who, more than likely, is incurring at least an operating cost for managing the program.) There is little doubt in my mind that this would *not* be a "tax scam", schools are spending on computers, this reduces the govt's bills (or tuition on campuses, etc) and should be compensated. 4. Have a lottery or something simple like that to distribute the used systems (I don't care, just keep it simple.) 5. Let the various vendors play one-upsmanship (one-upspersonship?) on how far they can push such programs, ahh, competition at its altruistic best! Am I only a dreamer? A fool in love? So shoot me. -Barry Shein, Boston University Fellow Americans, it may be ugly to think about, but there are places in America where children go for days without hacking... ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 19:12:51 GMT From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner) Subject: Re: Re: Hard disk questions (40 folder limit) To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu IF giving GEMDOS a mediach() return value of "changed" once in while (for the hard disk) will solve the 40-folders bug, it should be trivial to write an utility that intercepts the mediach() vector and returns "changed" periodically (say every 10th call). Does anybody know if that would work? And should it return "maybe changed" or "definitely changed"? Is there another way to do it? If that does not solve it, how about a utility that keeps track of the number of folders you have "accessed"? This would mean intercepting the Rwabs() vector, looking at directory sectors when they are read, scanning the entries, finding out which are subdirectories, noting those down, and scanning those if they are later read. Not trivial, this one, but possible. It should print a warning on the screen when you're approaching the limit. - Moshe Braner ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jan 87 04:51:38 GMT From: jpexg@HERMES.AI.MIT.EDU (John Purbrick) Subject: Re: printers To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu > I'm still searching for the right printer for my ST. > In the January BYTE, page 402, there's an ad from FOCUS Computers where > it says they'll sell you a Toshiba P321 printer for... $348.50! > Is that a typo? That printer costs a LOT more elsewhere: it's a 24-pin > device..... Has anybody had any dealings with Focus? I can't comment on the printer, but I just bought a printer from Focus. It came in less than a week and is just as advertised. Mine's a Panasonic KXP1080i, it cost $190 and is adequate for my purposes. Note that 24-pin printers tend not to include a tractor feed! I thought of a 24-pin model too, but couldn't justify the cost to myself. If you deal with the New York outfits, expect a hard sell on their part for additional stuff (power line monitor, dust cover, extra paper and ribbon, etc), but I've always won buying the printer and photo equipment. No problems with extended delivery or ripoffs. Regarding the price, beware. A glossy magazine's prices will be weeks out of date, and the vendor won't stand by the advertised price (unless it's higher!). The dollar just doesn't buy the yen it used to. Get the Sunday New York Times and look in the second half of the second section--all the dealers advertise there and the prices are usually good till the following Tuesday. --John Purbrick jpexg@hermes.ai.mit.edu ps The Panasonic KXP1080i has a graphics resolution of 72 dots per inch (at least, that's the highest resolution with equal X and Y resolution). ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 14:25:17 GMT From: cyliax@ee.ecn.purdue.edu Subject: programming the dma port To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Has anyone had any experience programming the dma port ? I have build an interface to use on the port, but I have some problems accessing it in software. I used the following code segment to access the port: { short rv; short *flock = (short *)0x43e; /* flag to disable flpvbl routine */ short *hdcreg = (short *)0xff8604; /* the fdc/sector count register */ short *dmareg = (short *)0xff8606; /* dma mode/status register */ while(!*flock) /* wait for flock */ ; *flock++ ; /* and set it */ *dmareg = 0x08; /* select hdc register with A1 = 0 */ *hdcreg = 0x00; /* now write to it */ rv = *hdcreg; /* now read from it */ *flock = 0; /* enable flpvbl routine */ return(rv); } When this was run in supervisory mode, there was no activity on the dma port control signals ( CS R/W* d0-d7 .. ) at all. Although the returned value did reflect the state on the data lines, for example pulling one low would reset the coreesponding bit in the returned value. I have also tried putting some delays between the reads and writes. Any hints or pointers would be greatly apreciated. Ingo Cyliax cyliax@ee.ecn.purdue.edu cyliax@ihnp4!pur-ee ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 17:19:00 GMT From: clyde!watmath!watnot!watrose!jafischer@rutgers.rutgers.edu (Jonathan Fischer) Subject: Csd - C source debugger To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Start Winter 86/87 lists both "Let's C" and "Csd" as if they are available for the ST, yet I had read some time ago that Mark Williams Co. had no plans for porting Csd. Does ANYONE have any news about Csd for the ST? Price? Availability? -Jonathan Fischer ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 18:01:09 GMT From: clyde!masscomp!ulowell!rstpierr@rutgers.rutgers.edu (Pete St.Pierre) Subject: booting off a hard disk. To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu I was told that even with a hard disk set up... The ST still needs a a disk in the floppy drive to boot. Is this really the case? It seems to be a bit of a waste. Replies: USnail Pete St.Pierre UUCP: wanginst!ulowell!rstpierr Box 2059 Univ of Lowell Lowell, Ma. 01854 ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 19:24:38 GMT From: ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!manis@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Vincent Manis Subject: Re: resource files To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu The only good reason for embedding a resource file in a program is when writing a DA. The resource manager apparently doesn't free memory properly when closing a resource file, so you're apparently advised not to load resources dynamically. I wouldn't know--I've never written a DA. However, embedded resources can't be easily changed; if you want to modify resources, you have to re-edit the resource file and re-embed. I can't see how it's worth the effort. In any case, separate .RSC files are a real win. You can easily distribute different RSC files for one program (thus supporting various monitor resolutions, or different languages for example). ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 11:35:42 GMT From: clyde!watmath!sunybcs!leo@rutgers.rutgers.edu (Leo Wilson) Subject: Re: Atari rumor To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Perhaps Atari took it to heart that people aren't real pleased about the 40 folder limit and decided to put out a machine that wouldn't have such an incredibly limiting problem. At least one vendor that I've spoken with about networks (BMB Compuscience in Milton, Ontario) uses a PC or compatible as the master/file server in a LAN scheme, neatly circumventing TOS's brain problems.... This company is also the ONLY one I've spoken with that will say "Yes, we'll network your ST's TODAY!", and I've called every one I've heard of that's involved with an ST network... Disclaimer: I'm not involved with BMB or atari, just trying to use ST's at work... where they have a very sparse idea that Usenet exists and no idea at all that the company name is in my .signature ... -- Leo E. Wilson(leo@buffalo.csnet) Niagara Paper Company 364 West Delavan Avenue 99 Bud-Mil Drive Buffalo, NY 14213 Buffalo, NY 14206 (716)883-7573 (716)856-5135 (0830-1700) ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 21:01:20 GMT From: i.cc.purdue.edu!afo@j.cc.purdue.edu (Alan Davis) Subject: Re: Screen Saver? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <4160@utah-cs.UUCP> atwell@utah-cs.UUCP (Bart L. Atwell) writes: >About a year ago, an accessory was posted that would turn off the screen. >Unfortunately, it required you to select a desk accessory to do it. Does >anybody have one that turns off the screen after a certain amount of idle >time and turns it back on at a key/mouse click? I have solapak which for $29.95 will get you a ramdisk, print spooler and adjustable screen saver that runs from the auto folder. It also contains a configuration program that will allow you to disable the spooler and ramdisk if you want. The sppoler is a desk accessory that comes with several printer drivers and several "preset" print options. Disclaimer: <Solapak didn't give me any money to make this presentation so I'm not making anything off of this if you or anyone else buys it> PPPPPPPPP Alan Davis PPPPPPPPPP Purdue University Computing Center PP PP PP PP Usenet: {backbone}!pur-ee!s.cc.purdue.edu!afo PPPPPPPP BITNET: ADAVIS@PURCCVM PPPPPPP PP PP Disclaimer: I don't agree with Purdue's opinions, PPPPPP they don't agree with mine. PPPPPP ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jan 87 10:35:07 GMT From: voder!kontron!brad@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Brad Yearwood) Subject: More on Alcyon double float array problem To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu I was waiting for somebody else to more-or-less confirm my finding before posting this particular note. Another posting received this evening seems to confirm things sufficiently. Try the following program: double a[16]; main() { int i; double p, q; i = 10; p = 2.0; q = 3.0; a[i] = p * q; } Examine the generated code. Unless the late hour was impairing my judgment, the double multiply library routine returns its result in D0 and D1 (R0 and R1 - whatever you want to call them). The effective address calculation for a[i] promptly clobbers one or the other of these registers before doing the stores of each half of the result. No wonder my Fast Fourier Transforms and digital filters gave so many zero results that could be cured by breaking the computation down into tiny bite sized pieces, carefully avoiding any array element assignment more complex than: a[i] = <constant or static variable> I also observed printf hangups in debugging - possibly the partially corrupted stores create non-numbers which wedge the conversion routine. When reduced to tiny bite-sized pieces, however, Alcyon lets the inverse FFT of the FFT of 200 real data points zero-padded to 256, return very much the original real data, with only 0.0 and -0.0 imaginary components, and 0.0 or -0.0 in the real components of the 56 original zero-fill points. This is all using the IEEE package - not the fast package. My numerical luck with Mark Williams C hasn't been quite so good yet, with substantial fuzz remaining in both the imaginary components and zero-fill. They _do_ generate correct code, however. Win a few and lose a few. Maybe us seriously masochistic types who like the idea of slow floating point image processing on a budget, really just need a diversified portfolio of compilers to spread our risks. Disclaimer: This reflects work of strictly personal interest. Though we are commercially involved in image processing, my work at Kontron lies elsewhere. Brad Yearwood Kontron Electronics {voder, pyramid}!kontron!brad Mountain View, California (415) 965-7020 ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jan 87 17:01:58 GMT From: clyde!watmath!watnot!watrose!jafischer@rutgers.rutgers.edu (Jonathan Fischer) Subject: Re: Mac Emulator (idea!) To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <37@marque.UUCP> joeb@marque.UUCP (Joe Bronikowski) writes: >In article <870@ark.cs.vu.nl> Patrick@ark.cs.vu.nl (Patrick van Kleef) writes: >> >>People tell me there is a way of preventing bus errors on the ST. This >>type of error is generated by one line of the Glue chip, the so called >>BERR line. >> >>Now what if we disconnected that line? In theory bus errors would be >>impossible. Would it affect 'normal programs'? Will more Macintosh programs >>run? Is there anyone who can figure this out? The Mac has RAM in locations 0-8 that is unused by the OS (after booting), and some Mac programs, you would think, must actually USE this RAM. The ST has ROM in that area (or is it just ROM in location 0?), so eliminating the BERR would do no good. The program would still not work. It would be like eliminating the sensation of pain. You wouldn't feel that you have just sawed off your right leg, but it would still be gone. The above is based largely on hearsay and stuff from Magic Sac README files, so I may be partly wrong. Am I? -Jonathan Fischer ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ************************** -------
MAILER-DAEMON%hila.UUCP%FINGATE.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU.UUCP (03/03/87)
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Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #107
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Tuesday, March 3, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 107
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Uniterm trivia
The Future of the ST (long)
Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #97
Re: new spacewar (Ver. 2.0)
Re: new moderated newsgroup(s) for Atari ST software distrbution
Re: Stereoscopic Display for ST
Re: 520ST Memory Upgrades
Re: Buying an Atari computer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 87 22:25 AST
From: <FXDDR%ALASKA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
Subject: Uniterm trivia
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
X-Original-To: arpa%"info-atari16@su-score.arpa", FXDDR
The addition of ymodem to uniterm has me transferring more files than ever...
I clocked the transfers using 1 kB xmodem blocks at 116.4 bytes per second on
a 120 cps connection -- 97% of capacity. Very nice. Here are some questions
and comments:
1) I'm using vvrb/vvsb for Vax ymodem (found on simtel20). Using vvsb to send
files to my ST, I find it wants an additional ACK when everything is
finished. When uniterm's transfer is complete, Vax waits around until
I type ^F. Does uniterm need to send one more ACK, or is vvsb at fault?
2) Follow this if you can. Simon has been kind enough to send me copies of
uniterm over bitnet. I post them on our statewide computer network and
on a local bbs. A friend, Bob Purdy, downloads them from the network and
uploads them to GEnie. Now...Antic's catalog has been offering uniterm on
one of their public domain collection disks. It turns out that Antic used
the GEnie version including documentation that had notes from Bob and me.
So people who get that disk try to get in touch with me or Bob since we are
clearly "uniterm wizards". One man actually managed to get my office
number from our computer network staff and called from Wisconsin to ask
about uniterm. I don't think long distance calls to me in Alaska are a
good idea because the rates to call here are very high. And, since Antic
is distributing uniterm 1.6e, there are going to be a lot of questions.
Would somebody living near Antic please gift them with a copy of 1.7a+docs?
3) One of the questions was how the VDI interface works on uniterm (the
ALT V key). Assuming GDOS is loaded from somewhere (DEGAS Elite), my
understanding is that it is possible to use ALT V to write .gem metafiles
that could be used with EasyDraw and other programs. Trying to print gets
the "unable to find driver" error. I believe that is one of the major gripe
about the current GDOS -- no Epson driver. Is that correct or is there a
way to treat an Epson-compatible printer as a workstation?
Maybe I'll try using Antic Online to suggest they update their version of
uniterm.
Don Rice
University of Alaska, Fairbanks BITNET%"FXDDR@ALASKA"
CIS 72337,3417 // KL7JIQ
------------------------------
Date: 27 Feb 87 16:55:10 GMT
From: cbatt!osu-eddie!osupyr!akw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Andrew K Weaver)
Subject: The Future of the ST (long)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
OK. So we have seen the Amiga 2000. (Or at least heard about it on the
net or read about it in Byte. :-) Yes, it is quite an awesome machine.
Yes, it runs 100% (proportedly) IBM software and runs all Amiga software.
I guess according to some disgruntled engineers much of the add-on third-
party hardware is not compatible with the A1000.
But: we are not here to deliberate on the Amiga (or at least I am not.)
What we have here is this: many people who have purchased an ST seem to
at first been totally enthused with the machine and many (to the delight
of the rest of us) have gone out of there way to write some professional
quality PD software for the machine. This is in addition to the same,
professional level (in most cases) commercial software that has been written
for the machine since its arrival in July of '85.
Now some (note I said *some*) of these same people are now disgruntled.
Why? Because Atari is supposedly 'abandoning' the ST line like they 'did'
with the 8-bit line.
Why are these people so disgrunted? "Lack of support!" "No upgrades!"
"40 folder limit!" etc. True, there are a few problems with the ST.
I will give in to that. But, can we look at some of the cold, hard facts
that there are in the world?
I. Atari is a young, *small* company.
Even though the name 'Atari' has been used since Nolan Bushnell founded
the company back in the Dark Ages of Pong, the current 'Atari Corp' dates
back to July 3, 1984 when Mr. Jack Tramiel basically bought the rights,
inventory, and *debts* from Warner Communications. He purged the company
of many (and in some cases inefficient) employees, services and buildings.
He took the ST project, already in research, and had it completed almost
a year later to the day after he bought the company.
Yes, in some cases the 'old' Atari company was easier to reach because of
800 numbers, etc. but even so this made the company much more inefficient,
having numerous divisions and agencies. In fact, clearly the most idiotic
part of the 'old' Atari was being split into three divisions: Home Enter-
tainment (2600, 5200, 7800), Home Computers (400, 800, XL) and Coin-op
games (etc.) This made for many wonderful blunders (like the add-on
'computer' for the 2600 which was totally incompatible with the other home
computers), the 5200 (which was a 400/800 w/o keyboard and quite rearranged
internally.)
This system was inefficient; thus Mr. Tramiel purged it into computer hell.
OK, one might say, but now it has been going on three years since he bought
the company. Shouldn't he be supporting the ST line to the hilt? Yes, he
should. But in many ways, there is one thing that the ST is not doing, at
least on this side of the Atlantic.
Generating (enough) capital, baby. If Atari had enough ST and XE sales they
wouldn't have to go into the PC-clone business. But they must not, so they
are going to.
2. The ST computers will be with us for a long time (or at least 8
more years)
To the contrary of many reports, the XL/XEs are not dead. (Read
comp.sys.atari.8bit lately?) They were introduced back in 1977. In fact,
here in Columbus the computer/game outlets probably sell more XE and 2600
software than ST and Amiga software combined. Unless you haven't heard,
Atari sold 100,000 2600 units with *no* advertising.
Now the STs have been out since '85 and will most likely make it to '95
barring rain, sleet, EMP or stock market crash. Right now there are more
word processing/business apps for the ST than the Mac relative to its
evolutionary scale or the Amiga at any point (no fair including IBM stuff
on the Amiga!)
There is already the Mac emulation for the ST as well as software MS-DOS
emulation (with hardware to follow presently.) The blitter chip will
be available soon, the TT will be out in some form and the Megas as well.
Now, if you don't like your ST: sell it! There is sure to be someone
who is disgruntled with their present computer or someone who knows a
good deal when they see one. Sell it if you don' like it. I am not
saying don't flame Atari on the net; on the contrary, flame away. That
way at least Neil, Landon et. al. will hear something. Call/write Atari.
Flame 'em on the net. But *don't* put your ST in the closet or use it
as a doorstop. If you feel the need to do these things, send your unit
postage due to the address below (and I will be *more* than happy to take
care of it. :-)
Ranting and raving...
| Andy Weaver
--+-- akw@osupyr.UUCP
| The Ohio State University
| Proverbs 25.25 1774 College Rd Cols, OH 43210
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 87 03:41:59 EST
From: MCOHAN%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
ritcv!rocksvax!rocksanne!sunybcs!leo@CS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Leo Wilson) writes:
> I am about to tell my boss that a) I was foolish to trust Atari and the
> reputation of Jack Tramiel b) that the money we have invested in ST's has
> been thrown uselessly away and c) that if we are going to be able to do the
> job at hand we'll need to switch to IBM compatables.
Without saying what the job is, this doesn't make any sense. Did you bother
to check for availablity of the software to do whatever job it is you are
doing before you bought ST's? If you didn't that was your own fault-- one
can hardly blame Atari. If it was available, then presumably it still is,
so what's the problem? This flame makes no sense at all.
> However, I also think that Atari has orphaned a pretty good machine that coul
> have performed the task infinately better than an IBM type. Orphaned it much
> too soon, far before it needed to be... From what I've seen, Atari may even b
Orphaned??? I run an Atari dealer, and if it's been discontinued, I sure
have missed something! Seriously, this also makes no sense. Atari is
selling plenty of ST's. The only thing I can think of is that you are
referring to the Mega-ST models. These are fully compatible with the older
ST's, so even if Atari were to discontinue the 520 and 1040 (which I have
been specifically told is NOT going to happen), the ST series would NOT
be orphaned. Besides, the current models are over a year and a half old,
would you have Atari never release any new models? It seems to me that
the Mega-ST, as described, is quite a logical next step from the current
models.
As for upgrades, c'mon, people. Atari has no obligation to replace your
520ST with a mega-ST. This is the computer industry, a new model comes
out once a month. Did IBM replace all those PC's with AT's? Hardly.
When you buy a computer-- ANY computer-- it should be with the expectation
that something better will come out next week. The computer industry
moves that quickly. (unless you buy an IBM, in which case you KNOW
you are buying the worst on the market-- that's kind of the idea.)
Michael P. Cohan, MCOHAN@UMass.BITNET MIKECOHAN on Delphi
Organization: The Computer Bug, Inc. 50 Main St. (rear) Amherst, MA 01002
Authorized Atari ST Sales and Service (413) 253-7782
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 04:45:54 GMT
From: engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst)
Subject: Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #97
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I too would like a copy of spacewar as long as it runs in color. So,
if you don't post it, please add me to the list as well. Thanks
Adam
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 02:49:26 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: new spacewar (Ver. 2.0)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <269@its63b.ed.ac.uk+, csan@its63b.ed.ac.uk (Andie) says:
+ In article <619@sask.UUCP+ long@sask.UUCP (Warren Long) writes:
++I am going to wait 10 days to gather responses,
+ Please post ... if not , could you email it ?
Again, please do NOT post them, comp.sources.atari.st has been
created (hurrah) for just this purpose. please email them to me and
i will see that they get posted and added to the online archives.
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 02:42:22 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: new moderated newsgroup(s) for Atari ST software distrbution
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <863@ubc-cs.UUCP+, manis@ubc-cs.UUCP (Vincent Manis) says:
+ Can I make a radical suggestion about posting of programs? There should be
+ two acceptable forms: either source code (in any of a reasonably long list
+ of languages) or binaries+documentation? (Of course, source+documentation
+ is probably ok too!).
+
+ This business of "here's an interesting d.a.; try it" tends to make me skip
+ postings, not only here but in other newsgroups. Before I run something, I
+ want to know what it does, what effects it might have on my system, and what
+ limitations it might have.
I intend to test every program that gets submitted to me. (anyone
who wipes my hard disks dies !!!) and add documentation when ever it
is necessary. I consider it one of my duties as moderator.
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 05:31:40 GMT
From: tektronix!reed!omsi@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (OMSI)
Subject: Re: Stereoscopic Display for ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <8702260920.aa24966@ARDEC-3.ARDEC.ARPA> ekijak@ARDEC.ARPA ("Edmund S
Kijak", IMD-IPAO) writes:
...
..
>MASS MARKET APPLICATIONS FOR LCS 3-D USING THE ATARI 1040ST
>Gary S. Yost, Director of Product Development and Marketing, Antic Publishing,
>Inc., San Francisco, California
> Mr. Yost founded the software division of Antic Publishing, Inc. in 1985,
>and is the significant force behind the development of the STEREOTEK 3D displa
>system for Atari ST computers (in cooperation with Tektronix). Before moving
to
>Antic in 1983, he was a Research Fellow with the Atari Institiute for
>Educational Action Research. In the past year, Mr. Yost has managed the
>development of the first Computer Aided Design system that stereoscopically
>renders 3D models in color (under $100), and the first stereoscopic molecular
>modeling package aimed at the secondary education market towards marketing
>high-performance 3D displays to over 150,000 Atari ST owners, and developing
>special 3D markets for value added resellers.
[small flame...]
Gee.. I know the guy who created the glasses for Tek for the ST, but does
anybody give him credit? I'd like to be the first.
His name is Mark Kimball. He first developed the hardware trying to use the
DMA port to control it but he ran into a few problems so he found a way to
"write" to the DMA port without having to modify the ST. His first software
experimentation with it was drawing 3-d spheres in Forth on a mono monitor.
The nice thing about the monochrome on the ST is the refresh rate is about
72 Hz (as opposed to the usual 60 Hz) which made the images seem to flicker
less. When Tek invested in color monitors, he picked up CAD 3-D and started
seeing if could make Tom Hudson's 3-D really 3-D. Mark created a couple of
desk accessories that did the trick. Mark started working with Tom in seeing
how the glasses could be worked into CAD 3-D. So the resulting projects came
up with things like animations that instead of storing each frame in memory,
only the first frame is stored along with just the changes between frames so
it takes a LOT less space. One of Tom's latest projects is ray tracing
(after he saw Zanth's "Shiny Bubbles") and his latest "masterpiece" combines
ray tracing, stereo glasses, and animation, and is called "Steely Boink".
This is a fantastic little 15x2 frame stereo animation that is a "room" that
is enclosed on each side with an 'animated' picture, with several 'mirrored'
spheres moving around reflecting everything. This one you got to see to
believe! (I'm lucky because the store that I work at is one of Mark's
favorite hangouts).
Mark is now experimenting with adding more bit planes to the ST. He mentioned
somthing like adding 4 more to low rez so you have 256 colors on the screen
at the same time.
I have just one flame against Antic. Since they are the distibutor for the
StereoTek glasses they have done somthing rotten. Even though they sell
the new CAD 3-D 2.0 and the StereoTek glasses to dealers, they are selling
the two together at a reduced rate but not selling the "sets" to dealers so
they can do the same. So, the store I work at is now talking to LCS (Tek)
to buy the glasses directly to cut down the cost so CAD 3-D and the glasses
could be bundled together cheaper. (Things are looking promising)
- Russell Schwartz
...!tektronix!reed!omsi
P.S. Sorry for rambling on so long.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Feb 87 15:31:04 GMT
From: cbatt!clyde!watmath!watnot!watrose!jafischer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
(Jonathan Fischer)
Subject: Re: 520ST Memory Upgrades
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I've been meaning to ask this for some while... can anyone out there
give me some info on upgrading a <<1 Meg>> 520 ST? Specifically, if I want 2
Megs, would I have to rip out all those painstaking 250+ solder joints I got a
serious kink in the neck over? And start again? And somehow stay sane in the
process? I know I've got an address somewhere in one of my usenet summary
files of a company offering a 2 Meg board (at least, I _think_ I've got that
address...), and I want to know if anyone has looked into putting this into a
520 that's already been upgraded.
Reply to me, and I'll summarize and post. Thanks in advance.
- Jonathan Fischer (jafischer@watrose)
or: watmath!watrose!jafischer
or: jafischer%watrose@waterloo.csnet
or: jafischer%watrose@waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 21:06:02 GMT
From: hadeishi@husc4.harvard.edu (mitsuharu hadeishi)
Subject: Re: Buying an Atari computer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In re: Whether Commodore-Amiga is providing upgrades to the old users:
The OLD Amiga blitter chips are being used in the new machines,
the A500 and the A2000, so there is no need for an upgrade. There is
no upgrade path anyway since the new (unreleased) blitter chip is
rumored to have a 2 Mb address space and the old blitter is restricted
to the lower 512K of RAM (known as "CHIP RAM" to Amigoids. This is
somewhat of a restriction only for frame-buffer animation, and it is
plenty of memory for most graphics applications and text applications at
640x400 resolution. Note that 640x400 with 16 colors, the larget
Amiga resolution and color depth, takes up only 128K, and you can swap
in graphics from non-CHIP ram as long as you don't need blitter speed
to do it.)
The new chip is rumored to be intended for high-end graphics
workstations in the 1024x780 or 1Kx1K market running a version of
UNIX (probably Sys V.2 or V.3, not BSD WAAAH) as well as Amiga Intuition
on at least a 14Mhz 68020. It has the 2 Mb address space simply because
of the larger resolution.
It is possible to add graphics boards to the Amiga series
to provide upgrades to resolution and/or blitter speed/address space,
but of course you would need a new, expensive high-resolution monitor
to go with it. Such a trick was demoed at a show a few weeks ago,
apprently; Amiga Intuition supports different screen sizes and resolutions.
Most users won't need more than the 640x400 resolution made possible
by the introduction of the new $500 long-persistence color monitor available
from Commodore.
-Mitsu
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
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Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #108
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Tuesday, March 3, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 108
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
A text editor in HEBREW
SENDCODE desk accessory ordering info
looking for a Hebrew word processor
Magic Sac
Re: Buying an Atari computer
Re: What is Public Domain
Atari's recent policies (was Upgrading a 1040 to 4M)
Help needed with desktop display
Databases
Re: Drive C as RAMDISK - (nf)
Adding A/Ds D/As has anyone ?
Atari ST relay discussions
Re: The future of the ST line of computers.....
Fast life program for Atari ST (and other 68000 machines)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 19:58:48 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: A text editor in HEBREW
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I've made a version of microEMACS that edits HEBREW (right-to-left from
the right end of the screen!). For now I use the hebrew characters that
are part of the system font. I added a command to print the buffer, which
is done using a series of screen dumps. Primitive, but it works...
If anybody is interested send me e-mail.
- Moshe Braner
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 87 10:00 EST
From: KIMMEL%ecs.umass.edu@RELAY.CS.NET
To: Info-Atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: SENDCODE desk accessory ordering info
X-VMS-To: CSNET%"Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu"
I've written a desk accessory called SENDCODE. It allows you to send
codes (typed in decimal) to your printer from any GEM application.
It's very small; the accessory and its RSC file take up about 4K on the
disk. It's written in Megamax C.
If you'd like a copy, please send me netmail and I will mail you a
uuencoded ARC file.
Matt Kimmel,
KIMMEL@UMAECS.BITNET
KIMMEL%UMAECS.BITNET@wiscvm.ARPA
KIMMEL@UMASS-ECS.CSNET
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 04:02:40 GMT
From: felix!zemon@hplabs.hp.com (Art Zemon)
Subject: looking for a Hebrew word processor
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I'm looking for a Hebrew word processor for *any* computer.
Please tell me about any of which you are cognizant. What
I want is something which is really designed for Hebrew,
not something which will let me insert a few character or
words of Hebrew in the middle of an English document.
The cursor must move from right to left, the keyboard must
be mapped in a reasonable way, vowels must be handled, etc.
Nice additional features would include a spelling checker,
thesaurus, etc.
If you read this in Israel, please respond even if your
product is only available over there. All my friends who
have been there have seen such programs in action but I
cannot locate one running here in America. (I must be
looking in the wrong places.)
To-dah rah-bah,
--
-- Art Zemon
FileNet Corporation
Costa Mesa, California
...!hplabs!felix!zemon
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 00:35:32 GMT
From: jade!violet.berkeley.edu!landay@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (James A. Landay)
Subject: Magic Sac
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I tried to download a mac binary from the vax with Freeterm. It works
o.k. But when I exit Freeterm my mac disk has been trashed. Has anyone
had any success with Freeterm? Is there something better?
Thanks,
James A. Landay
ARPA: landay@violet.berkeley.edu
ucbvax!violet!landay
BITNET: landay%violet@UCBJADE.BITNET
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 15:11:53 GMT
From: paone@TOPAZ.RUTGERS.EDU (Phil Paone)
Subject: Re: Buying an Atari computer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I bought my 1040 almost a year ago, and have not had so much as a
single disk errors with the machine. The reason (one of them) that I
bought the ST, was that I have a six year old 800 which never had any
trouble until it died last week.(sniff,sniff). I am not sure about
the reliablility of other brands after the kind of hacking that I put
--
Phil Paone
paone@topaz.rutgers.edu
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 13:01:35 GMT
From: phr@HERMES.AI.MIT.EDU (Paul Rubin)
Subject: Re: What is Public Domain
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <869@ubc-cs.UUCP> manis@ubc-cs.UUCP (Vincent Manis) writes:
>As a programmer, I would *never* put a program in the public domain. If I
>care enough about the program to distribute it, I care enough to make sure
>that my name is associated with it. Therefore, a statement such as the
>following is probably appropriate:
>
> "Copyright (C) Sarah Jane Smith, 1987. This program may be freely
> distributed to anyone provided that this notice appears on all copies."
Designing copyright notices for free software is trickier than it
might at first seem. In order to make sure that all versions of a
program remain free, you should specify that your copyright notice
must be preserved on all copies, that it is ok for anyone to
redistribute the program but the recipient must also get the right to
redistribute the program further, that modified versions are ok
subject to the preceding, and that the recipient must get *source
code* to any modified versions (or at least, source code must be
available at media cost+epsilon) with the right to further modify and
redistribute it.
At FSF, we call such notices "copylefts" and use them on everything we
release. The GNU Emacs General Public License is a rather long
example of a copyleft. We have a file that we send to people wanting
to contribute code to GNU which has some more info on copylefts and
why putting code in the public domain is against the interests of free
software, although it's mainly about what authors must do in order to
let the GNU project be able to use programs they write and is written
from that point of view. I'll mail copies on request.
Note that the current version (3.8) of a famous formerly-public-domain
program (MicroEmacs) is now copyright (free noncommercial
redistribution permitted) because the author got tired of companies
making proprietary versions and thereby ripping off the public.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 19:18:33 GMT
From: s.cc.purdue.edu!afo@h.cc.purdue.edu (Alan Davis)
Subject: Atari's recent policies (was Upgrading a 1040 to 4M)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1315@husc6.UUCP> grunau_b@husc4.UUCP (Justin J. M. Grunau) writes:
> [MUCH ommitted]
>
>Right. No, I think Atari is handling their PR very poorly at the moment, and
>indeed the recent silence of Neil Harris et al. is just a part of it (compare
>the constant involvement of Commodore technical help in comp.sys.amiga).
Don't forget to mention their help in newsgroup as well. I must tip my hat
in thenks to George Robbins for his expedient replies in this newsgroup. It
would be nice if we could get Atari to do the same.
| Alan Davis {backbone}!pur-ee!s.cc.purdue.edu!afo |
| Purdue University Computing Center ADAVIS@PURCCVM |
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 14:20:44 GMT
From: dalcs!silvert@seismo.css.gov (Bill Silvert)
Subject: Help needed with desktop display
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I've run into a curious problem with the desktop. I frequently use a
Drive C ramdisk generated by a ramdisk program within the AUTO folder,
and the desktop.inf file is set up to show C:\*.* on bootup. Fine.
I then install some applications. Still fine. Then I edit the
desktop.inf file, installing the path C:\ before certain lines (e.g.,
... C:\ARCX.TTP@*.ARC@
or something like that). When I reboot (hot or cold) the system comes
up as it should, with a window open for drive C -- BUT -- every time a
program closes the window, it stays closed. Normally when you run
a program from the desktop, after the program runs the desktop reappears
as it was before, but this doesn't happen anymore -- the icons are still
there, but all windows are closed. Any ideas?
By the way, I've normally used NEWWORD v. 3 to edit the file. If anyone
can send me a copy of v. 4, which I hear is out now, it would be greatly
appreciated.
--
Bill Silvert
Marine Ecology Laboratory, Dartmouth, NS, Canada
CDN or BITNET: silvert@cs.dal.cdn -- UUCP: ..!{seismo|utai}!dalcs!silvert
ARPA: silvert%dalcs.uucp@seismo.CSS.GOV -- CSNET:
silvert%cs.dal.cdn@ubc.csnet
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 87 10:31:21 est
From: Scott Shurr <sshurr%wellesley.edu@RELAY.CS.NET>
To: info-atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Databases
Has anyone out there used GRID from TDI? This is a relational database
engine from ETH in Zurich, and supposedly allows one to write Modula-2
programs to access a database. Information about any similar packages
would also be appreciated. I'm looking for a package that will allow me
to write my own C or Modula-2 programs to read text files and put them
into a database, to edit the contents of the database, to create reports
from the contents of the database, etc.
Scott Shurr - Academic Computing | internet: sshurr@wellesley.edu
Science Center, Wellesley College | phone: 617-235-0320 X3262
Wellesley, MA 02181 |
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 87 19:26:03 CST
From: Douglas Monk <bro@rice.edu>
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: Early 520ST Keyboard problem
I am sending this at the request of a friend who does not have access
to the net. Based on my glowing descriptions of the Atari 520 ST, he
was one of the first people in Houston to buy the machine ( signing
up on a waiting list to get it in fact ). The problem is that there
is some kind of problem with very early ST keyboards that results in
mouse/joystick activity in port 0 sending signals as if keys on the
keyboard were being pressed.
He went to the store where he bought it ( where they seemed familiar with
the problem, apparently ) and was told that since it was past the warranty
period, the only fix available was to get the keyboard replaced at $150.
His question is : isn't there some other way to fix this problem? If not,
is the store gouging him on the price? Could he get the fix cheaper from
Atari? He tried buying what he described as a new keyboard decoder chip,
but the new chip doesn't even work at all with his current keyboard.
If anyone else has seen this problem, we would appreciate hearing about
it, and especially about any fixes.
Please reply to me by e-mail as well as to the net, since my local access
to info-atari16 may be going away soon.
Thanks,
Doug Monk
bro@rice.edu
------------------------------
Date: 26 Feb 87 18:04:32 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!reading!onion!sage!gordon@seismo.css.gov (Simon Gordon)
Subject: Re: Drive C as RAMDISK - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <49500001@tub.UUCP> csch@tub.UUCP writes:
>... if they change the next ROM-version (if there will ever be one ...) so tha
>it won't load desk-accesories and desktop.inf from drive C.
My version of the roms, and most of those I've used here (in England)
(mostly fairly early ones) do not use C for any of these things (yes, I did
use upper case C).
Just how mauch differance between the functionality of the different
versions of the roms (in different countries?) is there ?
------------------------------
Date: 27 Feb 87 09:45:17 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!dcl-cs!bath63!ee_tw@seismo.css.gov (Whitlock)
Subject: Adding A/Ds D/As has anyone ?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Has anyone managed to add A/Ds and D/As to the atari yet ? What I need to
do is to have a four channels of each for some real time computing experiments.
What I am considering is a standard A/D D/A chip plugged in via the
cartridge port. The obvious problem with this is the bus error generated
when writing to the cartridge address space. Any suggestions of how to
avoid this problem would be greatly appreciated.
Alternatively if anyone knows of any commercial products available to do
this could they please mail with details.
Tim
ee_tw@UK.AC.BATH.UX63 (Janet)
ee_tw%uk.ac.bath.ux63@ucl-cs.arpa
ee_tw@bath63.UUCP
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 00:00:06 GMT
From: mcvax!botter!ark!kleef@seismo.css.gov (Patrick van Kleef)
Subject: Atari ST relay discussions
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Allow me to draw to y'all attention that every wednesday-
evening, there's a Atari ST discussion on Relay @ Hearn.
This is of particular interest to bitnetters who have access
to the Earn network (and all others who have the ability to
do so, ofcourse).
The only problem is that links are frequently down, and therefore
chats are impossible sometimes. Linkgods don't seem to like
the Atari ST! (I do, don't worry Neil :)
Regular updates on the chat are put in a newsletter that I
send out with great irregularity. It is also used for the
transfer of files. All the good stuff I send to listservers,
is also sent thru the mailinglist.
To get on the mailinglist, type 'r' at the end of this
message, or send mail to:
U00212 @ hasara5
The chats are held on channel 520, every wednesday-evening
(knock on...) at 23 European time. (around 5 or 6 PM at
some places across the puddle). Try it, you might get to
like it. It's live!
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 16:15:52 GMT
From: engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst)
Subject: Re: The future of the ST line of computers.....
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
While I certainly agree that Atari should try its best to keep its customers
(and I mainly mean previous ones) happy, before I got my 1040 I had an Apple
II compatible, and I never felt that I suffered from not having the support
of Apple Corporation. I think most of my security came from the huge number
of expansion products put out by third parties, an act which I believe would
probably happen with the ST were (powers forbid) Atari to stop supporting
the line entirely. Nevertheless, I will add my voice to the many clamouring
for a sound (just a peep mind you) from Atari as to the future of the ST's.
Adam Engst
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 16:44:21 GMT
From: clyde!watmath!watnot!watrose!jsgray@rutgers.rutgers.edu (Jan Gray)
Subject: Fast life program for Atari ST (and other 68000 machines)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Here is a fast (400,000 cell-generations/s) life program for monochrome
Atari-ST computers (which should port easily to other 68000 machines).
It animates all 240,000 pixels on the screen. Feel free to add a
better user-interface!
[that means about 2 full screen updates per second, right ? Not a record
by any means - let me tell you about the CAM I saw doing full screen life
at full video rates (60 (or at least 30) full screens/second). --BillW]
But how does it go so fast? It sums the neighbours of 32 cells in one
pass, by synthesizing addition instructions out of logical operators.
The rest of this file is a shar containing
life.c - mainline
gen.s - quickly compute next generation
life.uue - uuencoded life.prg (Atari ST only)
Have fun!
Jan Gray jsgray@watrose University of Waterloo (519) 885-1211 x3870
# This is a shell archive. Remove anything before this line,
# then unpack it by saving it in a file and typing "sh file".
#
# Wrapped by watrose!jsgray on Sun Mar 1 11:29:07 EST 1987
# Contents: life.c gen.s life.uue
echo x - life.c
sed 's/^@//' > "life.c" <<'@//E*O*F life.c//'
/*
* Fast monochrome life for Atari ST.
*
* Written by
* Jan Gray
* 300 Regina St. N Apt. 2-905
* Waterloo, Ontario
* N2J 4H2
* Canada
* (jsgray@watrose.UUCP)
*
* Copyright (C) 1987 Jan Gray.
* This program may be freely redistributed if this notice is retained.
*/
#include "define.h"
#include "osbind.h"
#define MAXX 640
#define MAXY 400
#define BPL 32
#define ROW_LONGS (MAXX / BPL)
#define SCREEN_LONGS (ROW_LONGS * MAXY)
long *Screen;
long NextScreen[SCREEN_LONGS];
main()
{
Screen = (long *)Physbase();
while (!Cconis()) { /* until key press... */
clearBorders();
gen();
copyScreen();
}
}
copyScreen()
{
register long *p;
register long *q;
for (p = NextScreen, q = Screen; p < &NextScreen[SCREEN_LONGS]; ) {
*q++ = *p++;
*q++ = *p++;
*q++ = *p++;
*q++ = *p++;
}
}
clearBorders()
{
register long *p;
for (p = Screen; p < &Screen[ROW_LONGS]; p++)
*p = 0L;
for (p = &Screen[(MAXY - 1) * ROW_LONGS]; p < &Screen[MAXY * ROW_LONGS];
p++)
*p = 0L;
for (p = Screen; p < &Screen[SCREEN_LONGS]; p += ROW_LONGS)
*p &= ~0x80000000L;
for (p = &Screen[ROW_LONGS-1]; p < &Screen[SCREEN_LONGS]; p += ROW_LONGS)
*p &= ~1L;
}
@//E*O*F life.c//
chmod u=rw,g=rw,o=r life.c
echo x - gen.s
sed 's/^@//' > "gen.s" <<'@//E*O*F gen.s//'
*
* Fast monochrome life for Atari ST.
*
* Written by
* Jan Gray
* 300 Regina St. N Apt. 2-905
* Waterloo, Ontario
* N2J 4H2
* Canada
* (jsgray@watrose.UUCP)
*
* Copyright (C) 1987 Jan Gray.
* This program may be freely redistributed if this notice is retained.
*
*
* gen -- compute the next generation of cells
*
* This code is a transliteration of the the pdp-11 code presented in
* "Life Algorithms" by Mark Niemiec, Byte, 4:1, January 1979.
*
* gen currently does about 400,000 cell-generations/second. It can go faster.
*
* Forgive the hardwired-in constants, and the terse comments. It's a hack.
* Think of the fun you'll have figuring out how it works.
*
@.globl _gen
@.text
_gen:
movem.l d0-d7/a0-a2,-(sp)
move.l _Screen,a0
move.l a0,a2
add.l #80,a0
add.l #31920,a2
move.l #_NextScreen+80,a1
* 1 2 3
* 7 * 8
* 4 5 6
* (d1,d0) = neighbours 1+2
again:
move.l -80(a0),d0
move.l d0,d1
move.l d0,d2
move.b -81(a0),d7
roxr.b #1,d7
roxr.l #1,d0
eor.l d1,d0
or.l d0,d1
eor.l d0,d1
* (d1,d0) = neighbours 1+2+3
move.b -76(a0),d7
roxl.b #1,d7
roxl.l #1,d2
eor.l d2,d0
or.l d0,d2
eor.l d0,d2
or.l d2,d1
* (d3,d2) = neighbours 4+5
move.l 80(a0),d2
move.l d2,d3
move.l d2,d4
move.b 79(a0),d7
roxr.b #1,d7
roxr.l #1,d2
eor.l d3,d2
or.l d2,d3
eor.l d2,d3
* (d3,d2) = neighbours 4+5+6
move.b 84(a0),d7
roxl.b #1,d7
roxl.l #1,d4
eor.l d4,d2
or.l d2,d4
eor.l d2,d4
or.l d4,d3
* (d2,d1,d0) = neighbours 1+2+3+4+5+6
eor.l d2,d0
or.l d0,d2
eor.l d0,d2
eor.l d2,d1
or.l d1,d2
eor.l d1,d2
eor.l d3,d1
or.l d1,d3
eor.l d1,d3
or.l d3,d2
* (d4,d3) = neighbours 7+8
move.l (a0),d3
move.l d3,d4
move.b -1(a0),d7
roxr.b #1,d7
roxr.l #1,d3
move.b 4(a0),d7
roxl.b #1,d7
roxl.l #1,d4
eor.l d4,d3
or.l d3,d4
eor.l d3,d4
* (d2,d1,d0) = neighbours 1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8
eor.l d3,d0
or.l d0,d3
eor.l d0,d3
eor.l d3,d1
or.l d1,d3
eor.l d1,d3
eor.l d4,d1
or.l d1,d4
eor.l d1,d4
or.l d3,d2
or.l d4,d2
* next generation
or.l (a0)+,d0
not.l d2
and.l d2,d0
and.l d1,d0
move.l d0,(a1)+
cmp.l a2,a0
blt again
movem.l (sp)+,d0-d7/a0-a2
rts
@//E*O*F gen.s//
chmod u=rw,g=rw,o=r gen.s
echo x - life.uue
sed 's/^@//' > "life.uue" <<'@//E*O*F life.uue//'
begin 664 life.prg
M8!H )" !7 C*P "I/+GP !,^*FT !" M S0
MK0 4T*T '-"\ ! "\ +PT_ #\\ $I.0=_\ #$ZY 2B\\ $Y!
M(B\ !# \ ,A.0DYU3E;__#Z\ ).N0 A(CP D$9A3F *3KD %.811A
M0CZ\ M.N0 C)*0&?H3EY.=4Y6 !(YP$,*GP !-&*'D )!&8 @HW2C=
M*-THW;O\ "01F7P2I],WS 3EY.=4Y6 !(YP$$*GD )!&8 1"E5B-(#D
M )!&T+P !0N\!E["IY "01MO\ !\L& $0I58C2 Y "01M"\ !] +O
M9>PJ>0 D$9@#B \?____\&5V_P !0(#D )!&T+P 'T N\!EXBIY "0
M1MO\ 3& , I7____^V_P !0(#D )!&T+P 'T N\!EY$J?3-\@ $Y>
M3G5(Y__@('D )!&)$C1_ %#5_ ?+ B? $Y8@*/^P(@ D !XH_Z_B
M%^*0LX""@+&!'BC_M.,7XY*U@(2 L8*"@B0H % F B@"'B@ 3^(7XI*W@H:"
MM8,>* !4XQ?CE+F"B(*UA(:$M8"$@+&"M8&$@;."MX&&@;.#A(,F$"@#'BC_
M_^(7XI,>* $XQ?CE+F#B(.WA+> AH"Q@[>!AH&S@[F!B(&SA(2#A(2 F$:"
MP(+ @2+ L<IM /]B3-\'_TYU(]\ !-"3DXO.0 $T).=2/? 30DY-+SD
M !-"3G4CWP $T).02\Y 30DYU $ @$! @$! $! @$! 0$!
M $ $ P4 !04 $! @$ $ <! @$ 0$! @$! @$!
M @$! 0$" 0$! @$! 0$!!@$!! $! 0,! @$!! (!" $!
M 0$!"0$! 0$! 0$ 4!
M ! , " , !@$ " $ " $ ! $! P$! 4
M 0$! 4 $! $! ("
M !0$ !0$ 0$ 0$ @4 !@$ @$ 0$
M!@4 $! $ @$ @$! 0$! $" P$" 0$!
F 0$! $! $" !"XB!@H.%@80&@P0$A 6$!H>%*P(" @(" "
end
@//E*O*F life.uue//
chmod u=rw,g=rw,o=r life.uue
echo Inspecting for damage in transit...
temp=/tmp/shar$$; dtemp=/tmp/.shar$$
trap "rm -f $temp $dtemp; exit" 0 1 2 3 15
cat > $temp <<\!!!
69 192 1192 life.c
138 336 2108 gen.s
25 185 1381 life.uue
232 713 4681 total
!!!
wc life.c gen.s life.uue | sed 's=[^ ]*/==' | diff -b $temp - >$dtemp
if [ -s $dtemp ]
then echo "Ouch [diff of wc output]:" ; cat $dtemp
else echo "No problems found."
fi
exit 0
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
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Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #109
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 4, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 109
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Batteries Included bought out.
Interesting
APL workspace interchange
PD yacc (attn: lindahl@brandeis)
using LineA instructions
Making make.
MINIX - STD EXTENSIONS
Re: Binary newsgroups (was: new group for Atari ST software)
Word Processors For Non-Computer People
Atari postings or lack thereof
Re: new moderated newsgroup(s)(Really lack of support)
Converting ST screen dumps to other formats
Re: An external RAM disk for the ST
Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 00:20:27 GMT
From: dalcs!silvert@seismo.css.gov (Bill Silvert)
Subject: Batteries Included bought out.
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I've just heard from a reliable source (my dealer) that on Friday
Batteries Included was bought out by Electronic Arts. The staff is
uncertain what this means. I don't know what it means. What happens to
Tom Hudson? No more programs like Degas (maybe no more programs like
I*S Talk on the other hand)? Copy protection? Another Canadian firm
sold out south of the border? Will PaperClip Elite ever arrive? What
will Simon Poole say?
--
Bill Silvert
Marine Ecology Laboratory, Dartmouth, NS, Canada
CDN or BITNET: silvert@cs.dal.cdn -- UUCP: ..!{seismo|utai}!dalcs!silvert
ARPA: silvert%dalcs.uucp@seismo.CSS.GOV -- CSNET:
silvert%cs.dal.cdn@ubc.csnet
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 87 20:29:41 PST
From: <UACE0@uhupvm1.bitnet>
Reply-To: UACE0%UHUPVM1.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: Interesting
Well, an interesting thing happened to my hard disk this weekend, I crashed
the D partition while using michtron utilities to recover a file. I don't
know if the latest version fixes this, but I was upset non-the-less to find
out that recovering a file would crash the partition.
As it turns out, only the first sector was damaged, so a simple read rwabs from
drive E (which had the same size) to write rwabs on drive D fixed it.
However, some of the top level files were screwed up, and some of the files in
the directory I was trying to recover from were screwed up. But I was able to
get drive D back online and save what I could before zeroing it out. SOOOO...
If you have a bad partition, or get a bad partition on your hard disk, try
writing a little program which does a read RWABS from boot sector zero from a
partition of the same size and writing it to the boot sector of the bad
partition. If this doesn't work, try one more sector, and keep trying one
more sector, for a few. Chances are you will be able to recover some of the
STuff. I will post a program which will do this, soon (like this week).
- Mike Vederman
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 21:50:24 GMT
From: cbatt!clyde!watmath!watnot!water!ljdickey@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Lee
Dickey)
Subject: APL workspace interchange
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I use APL on an Atari ST.
Are there any other APL users out there?
Want to share some workspaces?
I am interested in exploring ways of moving workspaces. There are
several different "escape sequence" methods, such as those devised by
DEC, Xerox, and Honeywell and there is another one recently devised by
Iverson himself. Another possibility is to adopt a conventional
"atomic vector".
We could build some APL functions or other programs to help with the task.
And maybe ARC would would help, or maybe SHAR, UUENCODE, or
other POSIX (think UN*X) tools could be used to help move
thing around, after we settle on a good representation.
The idea is to be able easily to move APL functions and
variables around this network and others.
We would carry on this exploration via a mailing list of
all interested, or through the group "comp.lang.apl".
Are you interested in exploring these questions too?
--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdickey@water.UUCP ljdickey%water@waterloo.CSNET
ljdickey%water%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPA
ljdickey@water.BITNET UUCP: ...!watmath!water!ljdickey
------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 20:57:02 GMT
From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom)
Subject: PD yacc (attn: lindahl@brandeis)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Sorry to post this to the net, but I've been unable to get through by email.
Attention lindahl@brandeis: I've tried to send you the PD yacc sources for
more than a week now. Someone along the way keeps bouncing the stuff back
to me (they don't know who brandeis is). Can you tell me another way to
get this stuff to you?
-Rich
------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 09:52:12 GMT
From: mcvax!prlb2!bernard@seismo.css.gov (Bernard Yves)
Subject: using LineA instructions
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I have a friend who has a 1040ST. As he does not have access to the
net, he asks me to submit his problems :
How does one use the LineA instructions to call the graphic routines of
VDI from Megamax C ?
Probably the answer has been on the net some times ago. Could someone
email me the C (or assembler ?) code to do that.
Yves bernard
(prlb2!bernard@seismo.ARPA)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 87 22:00 EST
From: Rodney <Peck@RADC-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject: Making make.
To: info-atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
Thanks for all the replies about what the major ST PD software
producers are using. I've recently received Pcommand (which is adequate
for a cli I suppose...the price is right.) and I ftp'd make from
su-score. Make seems to be just about what I've been looking for, but I
have ABSOLUTELY no idea where to get any documentation for it. If
anyone has the man file from Un*x for make, could you mail it to me? I
got the beast to run on my machine (1040 w/ one drive (the builtin one)
and a 500k eternal ramdisk.) I had all the bin files in C:\bin\ (the
ram disk) and the libraries on the floppy (they're pretty big and only
needed for linking). Anyway, the make program goes thru fine, and
compiles the files and makes a whole lot of .o programs, then tries to
link them, and finishes linking without errors, then does the relmod
without errors, and results in a make.prg. the problem is that when I
run this new make.prg, NOTHING happens. It loads, then returns to the
cli or the desktop. I remember reading about someone having problems
with make earlier, is this related to that? What was the solution?
Maybe I should compare the sources of my files with the originals...
rodney
------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 21:06:00 GMT
From: apollo!hays@EDDIE.MIT.EDU (John Hays)
Subject: MINIX - STD EXTENSIONS
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
CROSS POSTED TO MANY AREAS FOR CROSS FERTILIZATION:
I have been following the MINIX group now from it's inception and
would like to suggest the following two items be considered for
STANDARD EXTENSIONS:
1. MIT's X Window System - for those with bitmaped screens
this would provide a standard windowing system for applications with
a migration path to/from larger systems. (Supported Standard: Apollo,
HP, DEC, DG, Adobe, others [assume trademark notices]).
2. KA9Q's TCP/IP (Phil Karn) implementation. This code,
which Phil will share for NON-COMMERCIAL reproduction, implements
a driver for an Ethernet Controller as well as serial line, HDLC,
and Amateur Packet Radio connections.
(*FOR U.S.A, other countries may have different requirements*)
For those who are interested: Starting in March the lowest
class of Amateur License will permit PACKET RADIO priviledges and
HOBBY computerists should consider getting licenced as with Phil's
code and the available frequencies it would be possible to build
a network for sharing BINARIES and SOURCES for HOBBY MINIX programs,
as well as non-commercial electronic mail.
This lowest class license [NOVICE] will require you to
pass the following tests:
1. International Morse Code (receive only) at 5 WPM
(3-40 hours of study). You listen to 5 minutes
(25 Words/125 characters) of plain text and answer
a 10 question test on content. (Answers must be
letter perfect)
2. Theory and Law - 30 multiple choice questions on
OHMs Law, Legal Frequencies, etc. VERY SIMPLE
(Read a small tutorial).
If you have questions about licensing, etc. on ham
radio, POST to rec.ham-radio on USENET.
John Hays
Amateur Radio Station: KD7UW
--
John D. Hays, Consultant UUCP: ...!decvax!wanginst!apollo!hays
Corporate Systems Engineering ...!uw-beaver!apollo!hays
Apollo Computer Inc. CIS: 72725,424 {weekly}
!MY OPINIONS, NOT Apollo's!
------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 23:38:16 GMT
From: dalcs!silvert@seismo.css.gov (Bill Silvert)
Subject: Re: Binary newsgroups (was: new group for Atari ST software)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <12621@gatech.EDU>, spaf@gatech.UUCP writes:
> With source, at least, you can make
> (usually minor) changes and recompile for a different machine. No such
> luck with binary.
>
> If you're going to start a group, I'd want source only. If you create
> both source and binary, it is probable that sometime before too long
> we'd only carry the source group.
Gene raises an interesting point about the portability of source code.
As Eunuchs (or whatever we call ourselves) we are used to source code in
C which we know how to port between V at BSD. Non-Unix machines use
other languages. CP/M and MS-DOS were long dominated by assembler and
Turbo Pascal, and of course many micros use(d) BASIC. But the ST and
other 68K machines use a variety of languages, and I don't think that
UseNet supports much general source in these languages. I don't see any
source in the modula-2 or f77 groups I subscribe to, and net.sources and
mod.sources are automatically C.
If there were groups called {net,mod}.sources.{C,mod2,pascal,asm,c++,...}
then I would look for portable source code. Otherwise, I think that
Gene has raised a red herring (which is properly the responsibility of
older red herrings).
Looking at this constructively, the basic question is whether source
code is machine-specific or language-specific. If the latter, then Gene
has a point, and we should set up language source groups. If the
former, then the rest of us are on the right track. While I would like
to see more machine-independent source code, it may be tricky -- what
about all the GEM calls for the ST, for example. Is there even a
portable way to search a directory in any language?
--
Bill Silvert
Marine Ecology Laboratory, Dartmouth, NS, Canada
CDN or BITNET: silvert@cs.dal.cdn -- UUCP: ..!{seismo|utai}!dalcs!silvert
ARPA: silvert%dalcs.uucp@seismo.CSS.GOV -- CSNET:
silvert%cs.dal.cdn@ubc.csnet
------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 04:32:54 GMT
From: decvax!dartvax!ckagy@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Christopher Kagy)
Subject: Word Processors For Non-Computer People
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
My younger sister is looking to buy a computer before she begins college,
and one of the ones she is considering is an atari 520 or 1040. Her biggest
use would be word processing, and that brings me to the point of this posting.
Is there a good word processor for a non computer user (a la MacWrite)
floating around out there?
Please don't bother the net by posting replies. Just E-Mail them to me.
Thanks in advance!
Chris
--
Chris Kagy "I'm really from Iowa, I just work in outer space..."
dartvax.uucp -STIV
dartmouth@csnet-relay.ARPA
{...}!dartvax!ckagy
------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 21:44:10 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Atari postings or lack thereof
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
If it looks like we have not been posting much here lately, I apologize on
Atari's behalf. This has been an incredibly season for all of us: engineers
working on new machines, software folks working on blitter and laser
support, marketing types preparing to sell the new computers, etc. We are
also trying to get our new support folks up to speed on all the systems
we're active on, one by one.
Don't think we are not paying attention to all the notes here, flames (pro
and con) and otherwise. Most of us get onto the net on a daily basis,
except for weekends.
Personally, there are some arguments I prefer not to jump in on, and I think
that Landon, Allan, and the rest feel likewise.
Our #1 priority is to keep the products coming, but when you really need us
we try to be available here.
PS: Why do the signatures from some of us (myself and James Turner included)
begin with two dashes on a line? Kind of annoying...
--->Neil @ Atari ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS
GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 21:28:14 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: new moderated newsgroup(s)(Really lack of support)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <9650@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L.
Appelbaum) writes:
> Well that's all well and good, but what about support for the 8-bits.
> When Neil first introduced Alex Leavens he said that Alex knew about
> the 8bit. From what I've seen on the net and GEnie, ATARI is only
> supporting the ST line.
>
> So when are we going to see some real support for the 8-bits???
You asked for it...
Just a few hours ago, I talked to Alex about 8-bit support. He will be
spending quite a bit of time in the GEnie 8-bit conference (called "ATARI").
It will take him a little while to wade through all the messages there
already, but expect to see his presence there on a daily basis.
A further note. I had a meeting last week with TOP management here at
Atari. The topic was also 8-bit support, including ways to get software
produced by outside companies and how to get better presence for 8-bit
software. The subject has yet to be concluded, but we are coming up with
some good ideas.
--->Neil @ Atari ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS
GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 28 Feb 87 14:02:10 est
From: <ram-ashwin@YALE.ARPA>
Subject: Converting ST screen dumps to other formats
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I'd like to be able to dump the ST screen in a standard format, such as
ImPress or DVI. How do I do this? Are there programs available to dump
the screen to a file, and to convert this file into a .IMP or .DVI file?
Thanx in advance... Ashwin.
ARPA: Ram-Ashwin@yale
UUCP: {decvax,linus,seismo}!yale!Ram-Ashwin
BITNET: Ram@yalecs
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 04:52:55 GMT
From: ucsdhub!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!ncrcae!usceast!tech@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Bill Wood)
Subject: Re: An external RAM disk for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <818@vaxb.calgary.UUCP> brinsmead@calgary.UUCP writes:
>In article <2326@usceast.UUCP>, tech@usceast.UUCP (Bill Wood) writes:
>> ...I am writing this on a 1Meg system with a Ramdisk in the cartridge port.
>
> Where did you get this marvelous device? Is it the "polydisk" somebody
Yup, it's the same. I have just posted a 'review' so you might look for
it. I forgot to mention their address however so here it is.
POLYWARE_ST
5715 Horning Rd.
Kent, Ohio 44240
You can also get it from Alpha Systems. I don't have there address handy
but I am sure they are running an add in ST-Log so you can find it there.
Bill Wood (!usceast!tech)
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 06:40:19 GMT
From: ucsdhub!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!ncrcae!usceast!tech@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Bill Wood)
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1315@husc6.UUCP> grunau_b@husc4.UUCP (Justin J. M. Grunau) writes:
>>In article <2425@sunybcs.UUCP> leo@gort.UUCP (Leo Wilson) writes:
>... [he quotes a particularly virulent recent article] ...
>>Come on folks, let's not get carried away. Please make an effort to keep
>>However, shouting won't accomplish anything...
>Rather, the reason people are shouting, and in my opinion SHOULD be shouting,
>is certain attitudes that we have been getting from the people at Atari -- the
>kinds of attitudes summed up by Mr. Tramiel's remarks concerning Ferrari's.
>
>Right. No, I think Atari is handling their PR very poorly at the moment, and
>indeed the recent silence of Neil Harris et al. is just a part of it (compare
>the constant involvement of Commodore technical help in comp.sys.amiga). If
>they do not do some damage control SOON, they are going to lose a lot of very
>valuable recommendations from past customers.
>
The MAILER made me do this....
While I kind of agree with the sentiments stated above. I.E. Being
positive in a bad situation and yelling if that doesn't work. Perhaps we
are mad at the wrong people. The situation seems to be that ATARI went
looking for an operating system for the ST a while back. They needed one
of course and anyone who has programed more that a day has to know just
how difficult it is to write a GOOD operating system. So who has a GOOD
windowing operating system for ANY hardware? Well let's see... SUN,
APOLLO, ATT, APPLE (insert your favorite here). The point is there
aren't any GOOD AVAILABLE systems.
Well of course, DRI had an engineer that was working on a MS-DOS
clone and they have GEM. At this point I have to say that personally...
I am MAD AS HELL AT DIGITAL RESEARCH!!! Every problem I have seen with
the ST can be traced directly back to good ol' DRI and their buggy
operating system. Why did they bother with non preemptive multi tasking?
Where was their head when they built the memory allocator? Don't they
know how to say 'Hard DISK' 40 folders?!? You mean someone might want to
have more than 40 folders? They must have had a bunch of virgins working
for them. Can you believe it? They didn't even understand priority
levels as evedenced by the fact that they move the SYSTEM stack with
some of the GEMDOS calls.
The upshot of all of this seems to me to be that DRI sold ATARI
a bill of goods and now won't stand behind it. I can't help but feel for
the Atari folks, this situation, in my opinion at least, is not really
their doing. For example, the 40 folder limit wasn't apparent to ATARI
until AFTER they released the hard disk. I have watched this new group
since the beginning and believe this to be accurate. When they noticed
there was a problem, they were pretty up front about it. It is to their
credit that they didn't hide it. It is a pretty good bet that whatever
ATARI paid DRI for GEMDOG, they didn't get their money's worth. And the
problem is compounded since DRI and ATARI don't seem to work together on
this one.
The problem is GEMDOS is now a standard, the WORST thing that
could happen is to have a second release that has different bugs in it.
Other than the operating system, what's to support? Two and Four meg
upgrades are readily available. It reminds me of the old Hot Rod addage
'Speed costs Money...How much Speed do you want?'. They have just
introduced several new machienes, these we all know to be mostly
cosmetic in nature and are certainly something we can duplicate when the
memory prices drop. You want a 68020 you say? No problem, except that
the STUPID DRI OPERATING SYSTEM won't let you install it. The supervisor
stack frames are different you know.
Personally, I think that ATARI is doing a pretty good job even if
the bosses son is a bit of a twit. He certainly should think before he
speaks to reporters. I tend to think that the current success of ATARI
has gone to his head a little bit. But why blame his actions on Neil and
the rest of the folks at ATARI? They didn't have anything to do with it
except to have to waste time dealing with this rather flip remark, which
is sure to be a waste of there time.
By the way Neil, if you are reading this, I sure hope that you
guys will remember us when you get around to designing you 32-bit
system. I would very much rather give you guys $1500.00 or so for a box
that will work with my Supra drive on the DMA port than have to sell my
system and do the dreaded market search for a 32-bit system. So here is
my vote for a box that can use the ST as a fast terminal instead or
possibly in addition to the 1024 squared system I am sure you guys are
desinging. You might also consider posting a list of known bugs and work
arounds periodically. Also, judging from the number of books that are
becoming available on GemDos, it might be best to get yours on the
market pretty soon or you will miss the window.
Well...Feel free to flame if this doesn't suit you. I have thick
skin and can take a joke. What SHALL we talk about?
This situation was best summed up in a conversation I had with
David Beckmeyer. I asked him why memory seemed to be fragmented so badly
when I was using the MTC-Shell. His reply...The problem is maintaining
compatibality with the BUGS in the DRI operating system....
Bill Wood (!usceast!tech)
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
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Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #110 (MegaBlit.ARC)
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 4, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 110
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
MegaBlit.ARC
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 87 18:40:21 est
From: Eric Terrell <terrell@ohio-state.ARPA>
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
Below is a uuencoded monochrome-only drawing program.
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end
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
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Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #111
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 4, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 111
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: An external RAM disk for the ST
Anyone got Microsoft Write Yet?
Saving to ram disk (was: Saving the desktop )
hardware 'upgrades'
Re: MINIX - STD EXTENSIONS
degas print driver
Re: Drive C as RAMDISK - (nf)
Re: Interesting
Re: MINIX - STD EXTENSIONS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 04:48:16 GMT
From: ucsdhub!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!ncrcae!usceast!tech@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Bill Wood)
Subject: Re: An external RAM disk for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <587@viper.UUCP> john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) writes:
>A question to Bill Wood on the PolyDisk ramdisk cartridge:
> Bill, I've heard a few rumors that the documantation included with the
>PolyDisk includes enough hardware documentation to allow extending the
>amount of ram in the cart. Is this true and if so, how difficult does
>it look? Is there any indication as to what will need to be changed in the
>driver to have it support the extended memory?
Hello!
Well! I must say the interest in the ramdisk cartridge is most
amazing. In answer to your question, no they don't supply information on
how to extend memory nor do they supply driver source. I called and
talked to them when the unit came in and they were not real excited
about releasing source. This is stupid since the driver is less than 2k
long and is not going to be to much of a problem to sort out. I am
having problems getting dissasm the disassembler posted a while back to
do it for me. I haven't checked into it very well but am suspecting that
the dissassembler either doesn't like the fact that the driver does not
allocate any space for the bss or else it is upset about the super calls
in the code since it will dissassemble itself.
I don't have the circuit figured out completely yet either so
the following is possibly subject to change.
The Polyram has a 4-meg address space. That is they (I think)
support 32 64k blocks. Memory reads are performed in the first bank of
the cartridge address space and they map the second bank of the
cartridge for the writes. I am not sure yet how they are doing this.
The 4-meg above came from a conversation with their engineers.
There is a way according to them to piggy-back more rams onto
the board but it requires cutting traces and they were not interested in
telling me how.
The circuit consists of 31 IC's of which 16 are 256k dram. Five
of the chips are dual 4 to 1 multiplexers which I believe are used to
multiplex the addresses into the ram. I believe that the circuit can be
broken down into 4 major component areas: refresh timer, clock control,
address multiplexers and ram. This would make sence if they were
decoding a one meg address space as a piggyback expansion would suggest.
Another piece of evidence is that it takes 10 bits at a time for address
generation in a one meg space and they have 10 total multiplexers. They
use a ls123 timer for refresh timeout. That is they do nothing at all
about refresh when the system is running since the activity on the
cartridge address buss is enough to refresh the ram. The timer is
necessary to keep the memory alive when a reset occurs since the address
buss 'hangs' while the button is held down, and of course with a battery
backup it becomes necessary. The clock control is just a mapping of the
highest bit of the address to a clock chip expansion board. I am pretty
sure of this since their people said that you would have to disable the
clock control to go from a 2-meg space to a 4-meg space.
The rest of the chips are simple ttl glue and a couple of byte
wide latches. I tend to think that synthesizing a write line is pretty
easy if you are willing to live with two or possibly three cartridge reads
for every write into the external address space. A base address with an
offset of 0-255 would allow the address buss to be used as a 'data'
buss, it then becomes necessary to do something similar to setup an
'address' buss and a write line.
All in all, I think the circuit is pretty simple and elegant. I
can kind of understand their unwillingness to disclose to much since
there are sure to be several 'imatations' in the near future. I am going
to expand this one to one meg just as soon as I figure out how since I
am about 200k short of what it takes to get all of the compiler and
utilities out there that I want.
I have not benchmarked this unit extensively but it is slower
than eternal.prg by what seems to be a factor of 2. This makes sence if
they must do two or several reads to the cartridge port to do a write.
In closing, I like this unit a lot and would recommend it to the rest of
you.
In a related matter, I have been porting the UNIX V7 compiler
to the ST for about the past year. I have been using it for the past
several months and it seems to work. I could KILL Atari for making text
files use \c\r as a line terminator. The problems this creates are
amazing. But on with the tale, This is a true 32-bit int compiler that
as you would expect runs a little slower than say MWC if you don't
declare shorts every chance you can. It will however handle really large
programs and will allow you to build an array that is as large as the
memory you have. I feel that 32-bit ints are necessary to port some of
the better software -- common lisp comes to mind as does gnuemacs.
Anyway, I called ATT about this to find out what restrictions
there are on V7 and was told that I could pass this work on to anyone
with a source license to V7 or greater. Well that includes just about
any site on usenet at this point in time. What's this got to do with
you? Well...I would be willing to give this stuff away but don't quite
know how to go about it. I suppose that if demand is not to heavy I
could make a tape or two assuming that a copy of a source license came
with the tape.
Cross compiling on a Vax has it's advantages are any of you
interested? Frankly, there is still more to be done on this, the VDI-AES
interface is not complete for instance. If you have any suggestions send
mail and I will try to figure out what to do.
Bill Wood (!usceast!tech)
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 01:38:54 GMT
From: ihnp4!houxm!homxb!genesis!odyssey!jcs@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (j.c.schwebel)
Subject: Anyone got Microsoft Write Yet?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Has anyone used Microsoft Write yet or do you know when it will be out???
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 01:31:26 GMT
From: tikal!transys!baron@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Joe Portman)
Subject: Saving to ram disk (was: Saving the desktop )
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>In article <432@maccs.UUCP> gordan@maccs.UUCP (Gordan Palameta) writes:
>>I believe part of the original problem might be due to using C as the
>>RAM disk identifier. I have heard on good authority that C is reserved
>>(to the cartridge port?), and that therefore you should never use C (or
>>A or B, obviously) for a RAM disk...
On a related matter, when I boot a program from a ram disk, why
can't the program see my floppy anymore? Is this normal? If thiss
is a stupid question please forgive me, I've only had my ST a
couple of weeks.
These are my own opinions, not those of my employer (self),
or any one connected with the company (mine)
Joe Portman (SA) USPS: TransSystems Incorporated
AT&T: 1-206-453-5560 1280 116th Avenue NE
/-- uw-beaver!\ /-- camco! \ Bellevue WA 98009
... ihnp4! --< >-tikal!< >-- transys!root
.. ihnp4! --< >-tikal!< >-- transys!root
\-- microsoft!/ \-- teldata!/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Mar 87 08:34:20 PST
From: <DAVIDLI@simvax.bitnet>
Reply-To: DAVIDLI%SIMVAX.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: hardware 'upgrades'
I've been reading the comments of people who seem quite angry that Atari
isn't instantly providing them with a means to upgrade their 520ST/1040ST to
some 'new' version. I'd like to provide those folks with a history lesson
about the nature of 'upgrades' in microcomputing ...
My first microcomputer was a Quest ELF. I had to solder it together
myself. It had a whole 256 bytes of memory, which was quite enough when you
consider that I had to key in programs in hexadecimal. The only way I could
upgrade this machine was to purchase additional hardware. Eventually, I had 4
kilobytes of memory, a typewriter keypad, an actual language (Tiny-BASIC) and*
a black- and-white monitor bought surplus. My total investment was roughly
equivalent to the price of a 520ST with monochrome monitor.
Then I spotted an Apple ][ (back in pre-color days). I 'upgraded' my ELF by
selling it to another hacker and purchased an Apple ][+, with 16 kilobytes of
memory. After several 'upgrades', I had 64 kilobytes of memory, a lower-case
modification, a modem (300 baud), a color TV, an Amber monitor, a printer and
lots* of software. The investment, including software, would have paid for a
1040ST with color monitor and a (new Atari) laser printer.
I was a BIG Apple fan. :-)
Then the most terrible thing happened. Apple came out with the //e. The
ONLY way for me to upgrade to a //e was to sell my ][+ and purchase a //e.
What did I get for my upgrade? More keys to type on, a few changes in the
operating system (which was NOT available for the ][+ in a changed ROM),
80 columns, 128K of memory ... minor changes. ALMOST ALL of the software I
already had worked well with the new machine. This 'upgrade' would have paid
for a 1040ST with color monitor and a Color Ink-Jet printer.
About the same time, IBM came out with their first microcomputer. The
IBM-PC had 16K of memory, upgradeable to 64K of memory. No, I didn't ever
purchase an IBM, but since that time I've seen the rise of the IBM-PC mark II,
with up to 512K on the motherboard, the XT, the AT. NONE of these machines
was upgradeable. You sold your old one and bought a new one. But, funny
thing, most programs that would run on an IBM-PC would also run on an IBM-XT.
Some even run on the IBM-AT. Hardware changed, but the software stayed
generic enough to cross over to the new systems. IBM has been doing very well
with their microcomputer line. If software on the PC didn't run on the XT (and
vice-versa), that particular computer line would be an historical footnote.
The LISA came out from Apple. Then the Macintosh -- Apple's answer to the
IBM PC-jr. (The Macintosh was to the LISA what the PC-jr was to the PC).
These were also the first truly expensive 'closed architecture' machines. When
Apple came out with the 'new-improved' Macintosh, at a cost LOWER than the
original Macintosh and less than a year after its initial release, well,
naturally the early owners screamed bloody murder. And Apple obliged them by
providing a 'new-improved' motherboard for roughly 1/2 the cost of the new
machine. This 'upgrade' would have paid for a 520ST with a color monitor. I
understand that LISA owners (who paid upwards of $6000 for their machines)
could 'downgrade' them to a Macintosh ... the only case where you can actually
LOSE money in getting a more widely used machine. :-) & :-(
Some other systems of note which did NOT provide such 'upgrades' include
Tandy, Sinclair, Commodore (VIC-20 to C64 to C128), Atari (400 to 800 to 800XL
to 135XE...), Data General, Grid, Epson, etc., etc., etc.
There are two threads here. First, the software for the truly successful
microcomputers ran across the entire computer line. COMPATIBILITY is a key
issue. We have every right to ask Atari to provide software compatible
machines. Indeed, if Atari has any business sense at all they will do
everything possible to ensure such compatibility. So should those of us who
are currently writing software. The blitter chip/ROM upgrade is feasible, and
a wise move on Atari's part.
Second, manufacturers are under NO obligation to provide new hardware to
purchasers of their old hardware. For instance, there is no way that current
Macintosh owners are going to upgrade their current machines to the new color
workstations. They'll have to buy new machines. We shouldn't blame Atari
for not providing us with upgraded machines. Especially when those new
machines are not even on the shelves yet... Upgrading is OUR responsibility,
at whatever cost we feel is necessary to our health and well-being.
Personally, I can live with 2-4 megabytes stashed in a 1040ST. I don't need
16 megabyte capability. If I ever need that much memory, I'll consider
purchasing a NEW computer.
-- David Meile
Send interesting comments to INFO-ATARI16.
Send FLAMES to davidli@simvax.bitnet.
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 87 13:39:43 GMT
From: sundc!gouldsd!mjranum@seismo.css.gov (Marcus J Ranum)
Subject: Re: MINIX - STD EXTENSIONS
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <336daeb9.9540@apollo.uucp>, hays@apollo.uucp (John Hays) writes:
> would like to suggest the following two items be considered for
> STANDARD EXTENSIONS:
>
> 1. MIT's X Window System - for those with bitmaped screens
>
> 2. KA9Q's TCP/IP (Phil Karn) implementation. This code,
[blah,blah,blah...]
Let's be real, here, guys. From what I understand (not having had a chance to
get my minix up, running, and beaten on) there are even questions as to whether
the hard disk drivers function properly. You are talking about implementing
an awful lot of fancy stuff on some pretty brain-damaged hardware.
I am sick of seeing all this 'when I get suntools running on minix I'll post to
the net" shit. Don't waste the net's time telling us about the great things
you're going to do unless you have a beta-test version :-)
I think it might be more productive to worry (in order) about exhaustively
testing minix, and making more portable drivers for a variety of hard disk
controllers, and then maybe clearing up the odd bug here and there. TCP/IP
is really very nice, but who wants to talk to a PC anyway ? I'd never let
one on my network unless the sucker had a better security system than being
able to boot off of *ANY* floppy you choose (hence any /etc/passwd, etc).
Please wake up and smell the roses, guys. UNIX wasn't written overnight, and
it certainly wasn't written by 800 usenet messages saying "well, I'd really
like to see this implemented..." or "I plan to port all the code for KERMIT
and build it into the kernel as a local area network", blah, blah, blah...
I suggest we maybe form a talk.minix.wild.wetdream, or a comp.os.fantasy
for you guys, and the rest of us can concentrate on simpler things like
maybe making it a bit more portable, robust, and adding some of our favorite
AT&T-like tools. Ferget the TCP/IP - the basics like 'sed' and 'lex' are
a lot more likely to be missed.
--mjr();
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 87 20:17:28 GMT
From: pixar!mgr@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Griffin Russell)
Subject: degas print driver
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I'm writing a degas printer driver for the okidata microline 82a
and I have the distinct feeling I'm re-inventing the wheel.
Can someone send me such a driver, source preferred. Thanks.
Mike Russell ucbvax!pixar!mgr
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 87 16:44:19 GMT
From: imagen!atari!dyer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer)
Subject: Re: Drive C as RAMDISK - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> Just how mauch differance between the functionality of the different
> versions of the roms (in different countries?) is there ?
Not much variation. The only major differences are changes in
the keyboard parser, the text in resources for the various
countries, and whether to set the PAL bit in the shifter.
The ROM has some idea of "what country am I?", but the ROMs are
different and those infamous "undocumented locations" may bounce
up and down depending on what country you're in.
-Landon Dyer, Atari Corp. {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 87 17:17:58 GMT
From: imagen!atari!dyer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer)
Subject: Re: Interesting
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> If you have a bad partition, or get a bad partition on your hard disk, try
> writing a little program which does a read RWABS from boot sector zero from a
> partition of the same size and writing it to the boot sector of the bad
> partition. If this doesn't work, try one more sector, and keep trying one
> more sector, for a few. Chances are you will be able to recover some of the
> STuff. I will post a program which will do this, soon (like this week).
Logical sector zero (in a partition) contains a standard floppy-like
prototype-BPB with only the fields BPS, SPC, RES, NDIRS, NSECTS and
SPF valid (see your Guide, "Boot Sectors", pp 58-60 in my edition):
BPS = 512
SPC = 2
RES = 1
NDIRS = 256+
NSECTS = #sectors in partition
SPF = (((NSECTS/2)+2)/256)+1
NDIRS is nondeterministic, but is >=256. Word values (like SPF) are
stored in 8086 format. 16 bit FATs are always used.
The Rwabs() trick mentioned above should work unless the FATs and root
directories have been clobbered. I supposed you could back them up to
floppy before you ran that Michtron utility....
-Landon Dyer, Atari Corp. {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
The views expressed here do not not
necessarily reflect those of Atari Corp. Segments are for worms.
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 02:11:54 GMT
From: madd@bucsb.bu.edu (Jim "Jack" Frost)
Subject: Re: MINIX - STD EXTENSIONS
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <475@gouldsd.UUCP> mjranum@gouldsd.UUCP (Marcus J Ranum) writes:
>I think it might be more productive to worry (in order) about exhaustively
>testing minix, and making more portable drivers for a variety of hard disk
>controllers, and then maybe clearing up the odd bug here and there. TCP/IP
>is really very nice, but who wants to talk to a PC anyway ? I'd never let
>one on my network unless the sucker had a better security system than being
>able to boot off of *ANY* floppy you choose (hence any /etc/passwd, etc).
THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE UNIX SYSTEM ANYWHERE THAT IS INVULNERABLE TO
BOOTING DOCTORED MATERIAL. If you can set up the system in the first
place, then you can also set it up again with altered files. The only
thing that stops most people from doing this is a locked door. You
can just as effectively lock up a PC. Therefore, I don't think that
the ability to boot off a diskette is a valid reason not to allow PC's
to connect to a network.
Now that that's off my chest, the rest of the arguments given in M. J.
Ranum's posting are great. Let's not try to set up complex programs
on MINIX systems until MINIX is humming along perfectly.
- Jim Frost * The Madd Hacker -
UUCP: ..!harvard!bu-cs!bucsb!madd | ARPANET: madd@bucsb.bu.edu
CSNET: madd%bucsb@bu-cs | BITNET: cscc71c@bostonu
-------------------------------+---+------------------------------------
"Oh beer, oh beer." -- Me | [=(BEER) <- Bud the Beer (cheers!)
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <FINHUTC::INFO-A16@santra.UUCP>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #112
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, March 5, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 112
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: (none)
40 folder limit
Re: RS232 Flow Control
External ramdisk
Product review and ording information wanted...
Re: Questions -- resetting rs232 and set - (nf)
Access indicator for RAMDISKs - (nf)
How Atari will take over the world
Re: Atari postings or lack thereof
plugboards for the cartridge port
VIP PROFESSIONAL
Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 87 21:45:56 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: (none)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <8703010126.AA29928@titan.rice.edu>, bro@RICE.EDU (Douglas Monk)
writes:
> Subject: Early 520ST Keyboard problem
>
> He went to the store where he bought it ( where they seemed familiar with
> the problem, apparently ) and was told that since it was past the warranty
> period, the only fix available was to get the keyboard replaced at $150.
>
> His question is : isn't there some other way to fix this problem? If not,
> is the store gouging him on the price? Could he get the fix cheaper from
> Atari?
If someone sends an out-of-warrantee ST to Atari, the charge for a complete
replacement of the unit is only $95. We can't control the prices charged by
service centers, but in this case it seems to be a bit out of line.
The $95 charge includes return shipping, and will get your friend the latest
rev of the ST from our warehouse, including ROMs and modulator.
The address is: Atari Corporation, 390 Caribbean Dr., Door 17, Sunnyvale CA
94088, Attn: Out-of-Warrantee Service.
--->Neil @ Atari ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris CIS: 70007,1135 Delphi: NEILHARRIS
GENIE: nharris WELL: neil Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 87 15:38:11 GMT
From: mcvax!nikhefh!t68@seismo.css.gov (Jos Vermaseren)
Subject: 40 folder limit
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
After some digging in the ROMS I found the address where the table of
active folders is kept. The little job below displays the number of
occupied slots so that the user may know whether he is approaching
the dangerous 40 folder crocodile. This works of course only for TOS in ROM.
The job is only uuencoded with Moshes uuencode.
The number of active slots is quasi random but always increases.
-----------------------------cut here-----------------------------------
begin 644 folders.prg
M8!H " 3!\6,12B' <B=*&&<"4H!1
MR?_X@/P "C( ) !(>@! /SP "4Y!7(]*06<.TGP ,#\!/SP DY!6(](0M1\
M # _ C\\ ).05B//SP 4Y!2'H *S\\ E.04)G3D%.=6UB97(@;V8@9F]L
59&5R('-L;W1S('5S960@/2 #0H
end
-----------------------------end of job---------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 87 19:16:46 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!tomwest@seismo.css.gov (Tom West)
Subject: Re: RS232 Flow Control
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I posted an article a few days ago asking for help about ATARI RS232
buffering. Since then I have found that the mistakes were all on my side.
My thanks to all who mailed a reply. Finding out that the interface worked
for others enabled me to find the bug.
--
Tom West
UUCP: {utzoo, utcsri, mnetor, cbosgd, ihnp4}!utcs!tomwest
------------------------------
Date: 2 Mar 87 05:30:22 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utcsri!asm@seismo.css.gov (Anees Munshi)
Subject: External ramdisk
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hi all.
For my thesis I needed to use the ST's
cartridge port for output as well as input. So I designed an interface
which uses 2 latches and one PAL (16L8) which fits on a tiny cart
plugged into the cartridge port and converts the cartridge port from a
128Kbyte read only port to a 64Kbyte read/write port. The writing
process is a two step process (it involves two reads), and allows you
to write 16bit data through the cartridge port.
I have written software to read and write bytes and words
through this port (in assembler) and have been using this adapter for
nearly 6 months without any problems. (If you are interested in the
design mail me and I'll try to send you the relevent parts of the
documentation of my thesis which I am in the process of writing.)
Since I didn't need too much speed on this port, I never really
benchmarked it until I read those postings about the hardware
ram-disk. Just to see if it would be feasible to use this port to
connect to some memory and make a ramdisk, I decided to benchmark it.
The speed I obtained is about 75978 bytes/second for writes and more
than twice as much for reads. Although this is slower than the DMA
port, given that I don't know of any piece of documentation that
describes the DMA port properly, it might be worth putting a RAM-disk
on the cart. port. In fact, it should be pretty easy to put 2K of
battery-backed CMOS ram, some N meg of dynamic ram, and perhaps a
clock-calendar IC. By using a segmentation register, you could access
the DRAM in 48K chunks or so (leaving some addressable space for things you
might think of later).
So, does anyone have a well commented ramdisk program that I
can modify easily to serve as a driver for the external ram disk?
I would prefer a program in C which I can modify quickly and tune
for efficiency later.
-anees
Anees Munshi @ University of Toronto Engineering.
ARPA asm%csri.toronto.edu@csnet-relay.arpa
BitNet asm@utcsri.UTORONTO
CSNet asm@csri.toronto.edu
UUCP {allegra,ihnp4,decvax,pyramid}!utzoo!utcsri!asm
------------------------------
Date: 1 Mar 87 16:43:28 GMT
From: decvax!cca!mirror!rayssd!brunix!nancy!rjd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Rob
DeMillo)
Subject: Product review and ording information wanted...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Well, it finally happened...I think the last sane reason to shell out
$300.00 for the Developer's Kit has evaporated. It looks like Kuma has
put out its own version, which, in one of its hyped advertising blurbs,
Kuma claims is superior to the Resource Construction Set... It is called,
of course, K-Resource...
Now, only a few unanswered questions...
(a) How good is it *really*? Has anyone out there tried
it? Is it compatable with Lattice C? MWC? Megamax C?
MCC PASCAL? etc etc etc
(b) Where can I get it? Does anyone know of a mail-order
house that carries it?
Thanks in advance...send e-mail to me, and, when I have sufficient
info, I'll post a synopsis to the net....
- Rob DeMillo
Brown University - Planetary Science Group
UUCP: ...{seismo!harpo}!ihnp4!brunix!rjd
BITNET: GE702000@BROWNVM
SPAN: To Be Announced
CompuServe: 73537,2737
GENie: To Be Announced
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 14:19:00 GMT
From: mcvax!unido!tub!csch@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: Questions -- resetting rs232 and set - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I think, it's a problem with the XON/XOFF protocoll. If XON/XOFF is enabled
,,noises'' causing a XOFF-character to be recognized would HANG the RS-232.
One solution: DISABLE this feature (->Rsconf(xbios)). Otherwise you have to
,,patch'' within system-memory (the XOFF-flag) .... but I don't think, that
this is a proper way ... ???
I don't know about such a GEM-call BUT: there's some kind of a VDI-function
that does this --- you can also work with font-attributes using LINE-A
functions (init(line-a)) ...
Clemens
Contact via:
csch@tub.uucp
from the US: ...!pyramid!tub!csch
from Europe: ...!unido!tub!csch
Bitnet: csch@db0tui6 = tub.bitnet
tel.: +49-30-393-3574
+49-30-332-4015
tlx.: (west-germany) + 186672 rdt d
------------------------------
Date: 28 Feb 87 15:02:00 GMT
From: mcvax!unido!tub!csch@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Access indicator for RAMDISKs - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Here's some nice little stuff for all those that wont to have their drive-leds
light up everytime, they access their RAMDISK ...
Read ramd_led.doc !!!!
Clemens
Contact via:
csch@tub.uucp
from the US: ...!pyramid!tub!csch
from Europe: ...!unido!tub!csch
Bitnet: csch@db0tui6 = tub.bitnet
tel.: +49-30-393-3574
+49-30-332-4015
tlx.: (west-germany) + 186672 rdt d
--------------------- cut here -------------------------
begin 644 ramd_led.arc
M&@A204U$7TQ%1"Y$3T, X0( %P.37YH[@4$ ,5-"DF0-B( @Z:,J :/.&
M3!HS:<J0 6&GC)PY:=ZX ?'&# B'<]:("2/'!1PY9T"X:*" 91(Z(-BD.8.&
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MY!H0/R -8.G2HVK6=UP?I"N3)DR<F7GZ+!AT:%$00I)^!X$FC-C:(!8W?LR]
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ME,!_ 0YHA! ')KA@@P\>)"&%[5W8@A ;3N2"A[S]UU\"?Y4X@@PI*LB@@\V!
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MIX=3^ EZF4(QP+!51Q^%.FJIIVK$DAE_X07"##3@H&4>A(+ 6:74=3@ "#JT
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MFL4358#@J!.0@H!$$.]1\01/>B[!4A!.9$$%$GH>(6U_0X@;E1L$33$&&F !
MIQ *8\RQ,1 1BN%"'76,D5,/TH8 1Q[3M9$&&2&4'$+(&U_;6P)<X8P&$&2(
M 4.$:=@0X&5NE$&'SMIBD10*5[1%1PM'6-1&7GFDL$(,.-A@PPTRY$<&3&3T
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M4 &(-P (@$ !@ $T5 H7 3 1HO " !@!;""!%SP4DOJ1TH03)UP>L03Y
M(H?)F3&<! 'C;\0UA0A<?"1HAP%$ P <F/$ Y!P /@< 3."7%, _1 $V.QG
M%9$ (]^@Y%/( $0>A02<0%-REB"#,QZ$V'3;]&G4J56O@K0IH.O7;V:!JATQ
M-J(=M".H$DQIV$F=.6GTE/DRA\Z;0 ,+I'%3.0P;-@ $F225A@R;,B9%0R*@
M TT8-Z;+R EMDH><,G2^A"%#1@[FU0ANYW8-6S4!.W/6I(&3VJ0;-V_N?#'#
M)LR9WP2,LB'S1<X=D-@))%\N0Z%Q3FC(V.G^'4!)@L<58C @P8$!$P80(/#
M "D:"%)!341?3$5$+E, 1P"E! 7 YA?*-8Y@< P)7- I@X=. P4'$[1Y
M8Z>,"S8):*"8 R<%BS P$B10 6+,FS9PZ@P$,2>-GC(@Z+P! 66@G#9RRLQ)
MN+#APP0DQJ# :)$,C(1AR)"Y22*&1)XL? (52C2&3J1*%20(.A3BB*(P8"3]
M*;6F0X@^69 T6>;+')4Q-7)<4Z8,'!!VPK"I4R8A389?$XQ(X^:L7#9B6TRL
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M*K0 "00'J5 B") 0(,4=88@Q1X".N>'2&&X9!&("*Y$41D.3E4%''7*X89A0
MB/6F HX@D.1C:2FM%-./03;9(QU?H!&&&PIZ5R*2*0$IY!M"TH$&2GR1D<88
M8:"U98YFO!'9&W>DA 9E=9R!QF)LD '"BBV^F )<J*D)XD%68KF@' U&EU=H
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M UDL /5.".[.N"$!C>PP:MD^)<(:@8B.-1AU5@@M1U&:GI2 Q1SP-,RJ\#-
M.RQ(HA-SU9<91N9[<@ !LN($)LPD0 YTZ$WO*):8@[#'/,EA4 +(,(>;Q,!C
M90 )2=#R,\PTL6HZT @=[5B8'BQ&;1MTFQ:K)D5!49!(@1PD1.ZH'4-ZT#LG
M4$REHG08F?0F=<L[0R3KR!E*<L203"@"$;H4I#+HZ0E. ($8RM"FF.SI"D$0
'PA1@IP : /0F
end
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 87 10:19:56 EST
From: Flash%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: How Atari will take over the world
To: Info-Atari16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Everybody has been flaming left and right at why Atari is keeping such
a low profile these days, yet you forget to look left and right.
1) I believe that Atari was waiting for competition to announce their
intentions. Now that Amiga has announced their machines, and the
Mac SE and Mac II are announced, Atari knows what it will be
fighting.
2) Now Atari can ship the Mega ST happily, knowing it can compete
with the Mac SE, and announce the 68020 UNIX machine, since it is
perfect competition with the Mac II.
3) Atari might be quiet here, cause all we do is flame, but if you use
GENIE, you will find that even Sam Tramiel himself is there to
answer your questions, and it usually happens overnight!
BTW, the 68020 expansion for the ST will go through the DMA port, so
the rumors that it fit INSIDE a mega st were wrong, according to the
latest info from GENIE.
Anyone see the Mac II last night on TV? 640x480 resolution color...
Sounds VERY familiar with Atari's new resolutions...
at a cheaper price, of course...:)
Rick Flashman Flash@UMASS.BITNET
1040 N. Pleasant St. #381 Flash%UMASS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
Amherst, MA 01002 R-FLASHMAN on GENIE
(413) 549-0173
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 00:49:45 GMT
From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom)
Subject: Re: Atari postings or lack thereof
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <573@atari.UUCP> neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) writes:
>PS: Why do the signatures from some of us (myself and James Turner included)
>begin with two dashes on a line? Kind of annoying...
I'm not to sure about other news reading programs, but "rn" adds the two
dashes before your signature line.
-Rich
Richard E. Sansom
TRW Electronics & Defense Sector
{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 17:27:22 GMT
From: sdcc6!sdcc12!st69@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Este Sikstinon)
Subject: plugboards for the cartridge port
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Does anyone know of any prototyping boards that will plug into the
catridge slot of the ST? It seems to need a 40-pin card edge with a
center spacing of ~0.08 inches, something which neither Augat or
Vector make.
thanks in advance,
Tom Erbe (uucp: sun!sdcarl!tre, genie: T.ERBE)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 87 14:52:43 PST
From: <FATR6@usu.bitnet>
Reply-To: FATR6%USU.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: VIP PROFESSIONAL
HELP!!!
I just received the non GEM version of VIP Professional today in the mail.
Mail Order. The disk was trashed. It boots the title screen and the says
'insert key disk'. It can't find the key value it is looking for on my disk.
Is there anyone out there who could run me off a copy if I send my original
to them. The Mail Order outfit says it is VIP's problem and VIP say's the
distributor has to replace it. I don't know about the legality of all this
but I am sick that I paid $100 for a piece of software that won't boot. I am
not asking for a backup or even a copy just the original program I paid for.
By the way VIP is hiding from Lotus if you have tried to get ahold of them.
Thanks
Jon Jensen
FATR6@USU
1-801-750-2440
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 12:53:38 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <2337@usceast.UUCP>, tech@usceast.UUCP (Bill Wood) says:
+---------------------------------------------------------
+
+ In article <1315@husc6.UUCP> grunau_b@husc4.UUCP (Justin J. M. Grunau) writes
+++In article <2425@sunybcs.UUCP> leo@gort.UUCP (Leo Wilson) writes:
++... [he quotes a particularly virulent recent article] ...
+ Well of course, DRI had an engineer that was working on a MS-DOS
+ clone and they have GEM. At this point I have to say that personally...
+ I am MAD AS HELL AT DIGITAL RESEARCH!!! Every problem I have seen with
+ the ST can be traced directly back to good ol' DRI and their buggy
+ operating system. Why did they bother with non preemptive multi tasking?
+ Where was their head when they built the memory allocator? Don't they
+ know how to say 'Hard DISK' 40 folders?!? You mean someone might want to
+ have more than 40 folders? They must have had a bunch of virgins working
+ for them. Can you believe it? They didn't even understand priority
+ levels as evedenced by the fact that they move the SYSTEM stack with
+ some of the GEMDOS calls.
+---------------------------------------------------------
bless you for stating the truth, after atari got the code from DRI
they spent many hours rewriting the code just to get it to 'work' as
well as it does today. DRI is one of the more brain-damaged OS
companies that i know of. It's true that TOS was put together by DRI
in a hurry but that is still no excuse for the poor design work
underlying it. Almost all (if not all) of the problems that we have
with TOS are directly tracable back to them, I too am in favor of
burying TOS and trying again with the EST (MINIX, SVR2 ??? anything
but TOS)
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON%hila.UUCP%FINGATE.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU.UUCP (03/06/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node SAMPO
mail11: -SYSTEM-F-INVLOGIN, login information invalid at remote node
550 <sampo::tripmgr>... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
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Date: Thu 5 Mar 87 19:29:10 PST
Reply-To: santra::Score.Stanford.edu::Info-Atari16
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <FINHUTC::INFO-A16@santra.UUCP>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #113
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, March 5, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 113
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
"Setting the date"
Resetting the aux. port
April 1987 ANTIC TOC for ST
Re: An external RAM disk for the ST
Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
Re: How Much Free RAM?
Re: Two questions on ST add-{o|i}ns
Re: r.e. Simons comments of 20 Feb '87...
Re: C Comps.
Re: The future of the ST line of computers (and something NEW)
Re: new moderated newsgroup(s)(Really lack of support)
Re: Problems with Fattrib on a directory
Re: Buying an Atari computer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 87 14:33:25 +0100
From: mcvax!inria!inria.inria.fr!poirot@seismo.CSS.GOV (Didier Poirot -- SPIT)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: "Setting the date"
A few weeks ago, i wrote a little program (using ALCYON C) to set the
date correctly at system reboot (who said original ??). I use Tsetdate() and
Ikbdw() routines to set the date correctly in the 2 system clocks (i need the
keyboard clock to be set to display it in the upper right corner of the screen)
No problem to make it work correctly, but (there's always a but)
my program always ask me for the date (and time) even after a RESET. However
i think the date is still correct in the keyboard (just frozen at reset).
So i decided to modify it, to read the keyboard clock and if this one
seems to be ok, set it as system date. So, I used Ikbdw() routine to read it
( command $1C) but all i got is 0 !
Am i right to say the date is still correct after a reset ?
As someone got the same problem ?
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed above do not necesseraly reflect those
of my Employer. I have no affiliations with any named company .
===============================================================================
Didier POIROT D. Poirot
mail: ...!seismo!mcvax!inria!poirot INRIA
Domaine de Voluceau
B.P 105
78153 LE CHESNAY CEDEX
FRANCE
------------------------------
Date: 5 Mar 87 00:20:55 GMT
From: decvax!minow@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Martin Minow)
Subject: Resetting the aux. port
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
The attached subroutine has been in use for a few days without
problems (Your mileage may vary). It resets the XOFF status
flags in the IOREC and initializes the output (Atari->Host) buffer
pointers. It assembles under the Mark Williams assembler.
Martin Minow
decvax!minow
/
/ Reset the Aux rs232 port. Usage:
/ char *rs232_iorec = Iorec(0); /* Do this first */
/
/ if (rs232_reset())
/ Cauxout(0x11); /* send an XOFF */
/
/ This subroutine was written by Martin Minow, Arlington MA
/ and is in the public domain.
/
.shrd / Public data
.globl rs232_iorec_ / -> aux io record. see below
.shri / Public instructions
.globl rs232_reset_
rs232_reset_:
move.l d2,-(sp) / Save a scratch register
clr.l -(sp) / Super(0L) switches to super mode
move.w $0x20,-(sp) / Super opcode
trap $1 / Call TOS
addq.l $6,sp / Clear stack
move.l d0,-(sp) / Save old stack for now.
/
/ If you don't already have the iorec as a readily-available global,
/ uncomment the following code (which is, of course, untested)
/
/ clr.w -(sp) / Aux port is device zero
/ move.w $14,-(sp) / Iorec
/ trap $14 / Xbios(14)
/ addq.l $4,sp / Clear stack
/ End of "get iorec" code. We already have this information:
movea rs232_iorec_,a0 / a0 -> I/O record
move sr,-(sp) / Save cpu status
ori $0x700,sr / Disable interrupts
clr.l 20(a0) / Clear output head, tail
clr.l d2 / Clear result
or.b 30(a0),d2 / Get old rcv xoff state
clr.w 30(a0) / Cancel rcv, xmt xoff states
move (sp)+,sr / enable interrupts
move.w $0x20,-(sp) / Super -- old_stack is still at (sp)
trap $1 / Exit super mode
addq $6,sp / Clean junk from stack
move.l d2,d0 / Get result
move.l (sp)+,d2 / Restore d2
rts / exit routine
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 18:52:20 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihuxi!store2@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Wilcox)
Subject: April 1987 ANTIC TOC for ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
*****************[Ignore header path]*******************
Below is the portion of the table of contents of the April issue
of ANTIC magazine that I think will be of interest to ST owners.
The complete TOC is available in comp.sys.atari.8bit if you are
interested. -Kit-
********************************************************
MONTH 1987 ANTIC TOC
Theme: Tax Spreadsheet
page article
6 I/O BOARD
Letters from Readers.
***********BEGIN THE ST RESOURCE SECTION**********
56 PATHWAYS UNCOVERED
Proper file handling on your ST.
61 ST PRODUCT NEWS AND REVIEWS
Software
The Pinball Factory (Michtron)
Silent Service (MicroProse Software)
Black Cauldron (Sierra On-Line, Inc)
Textpro (Abacus Software)
Universe II (Omnitrend Software)
New Products (description only)
Trivia Challenge (Michtron)
Backup! (Michtron)
HiSoft BASIC Compiler (HiSoft)
DevpacST (HiSoft)
Saved! (HiSoft)
Accounts (Execon Limited)
Invoicing/Order Processing (Execon Limited)
Inventory Control System (Execon Limited)
Business Starter Kit templates (Quickview Systems)
Home Starter Kit templates (Quickview Systems)
Mouse to Joystick converter (State of the Arts Electronics)
Quizam (Electronic Arts)
Dollars and Sense (Monogram)
Space Quest (Sierra On-Line Inc)
LaserType (Softlab)
Fore*Star (Crystal Software)
PayDay (Crystal Software)
KISS (QMS)
Big KISS (QMS)
Big KISS II (QMS)
Smartwriter 80+ (QMS)
Drafix 1 (Foresight Resources Corp)
Fastcom (Atari Corp)
Inagem Agenda+ (Inagem Technologies Inc)
Micro-Time ST (Micro-Time Electronics)
68 TYPESETTER ELITE
A review of this product from XLEnt Software.
***********END THE ST RESOURCE SECTION************
73 SOFTWARE LIBRARY
This section contains all the program listings for the
articles in this issue.
Coming next month: 5th Anniversary Issue containing: 2nd annual ANTIC
Awards, Rogue for the 8-bit computer, Type-In Hall
of Fame, Wild Inventions--Build 'em for pennies.
Comments: Computer Mail Order is now advertising the 800XL for $63.99.
Thanks to all who sent congratulations to me on the birth of
my new daughter, Sarah Marie Kimes. Until next month...
Kit Kimes
AT&T-ISL
1100 E. Warrenville Rd.
Naperville, IL 60566
...!ihnp4!iwvae!kimes
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 21:33:32 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: An external RAM disk for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>Atari MS-DOS emulator cancelled in light of the Atari PC...
>
Nope. We're going ahead with it, and I'll post more information as soon
as I have any.
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2160
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 22:42:43 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>I hope the 32 bit box will plug in the back of my ST...
Yep, that's how it's going to be. The ST is going to be a superfast,
smart terminal to the 68020 box.
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS ATariCorp: 408-745-2006
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 21:43:51 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: How Much Free RAM?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <6337@mhuxu.UUCP>, cbz@mhuxu.UUCP says:
>
> Can someone tell me how much of a 520STs RAM is actually allocated for the
> user? I have a Free RAM checker Desk Accessory that tells me its something
> like 377k. Is that correct?
>
> Craig Ziemer at AT&T-BL
Depends on a number of things, like how many desk acc's you load and whether
or not you've got TOS in ROM. 377K sounds to me like you're loading the
control panel and set printer accs as well as the free ram acc. Is this
so?
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS Atari Corp: 408-745-2160
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 21:48:10 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Two questions on ST add-{o|i}ns
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> a) a company called Terrific advertises a clock chip which mounts underneath
> some chip on the motherboard. I remember the warning from Neil Harris on
I've heard good things about them, but have not used it myself. I have a
board that goes into the chip socket on the keyboard, and uses two rechargeable
nickelcad batteries, with a little program in the auto folder to read the
clock at boot time. I think it's called ST-Time, and I like it.
> b) I'm also considering buying a hard disk. The two alternatives seem to be
> the Atari SH204 and the Supra 30Meg drive...
I use an SH204 myself, and like it very much. I've also heard good things
about the Supra.
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS Atari Corp: 408-745-2160
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 21:18:25 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: r.e. Simons comments of 20 Feb '87...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
> Doesn't -anyone- at Atari read these messages?
> How can we get them to listen??
> Don't they care that users and developers are starting to get angry?
>
> Any ideas??
I'm here and I'm listening, and will do all I can to help. The technical
books are on the way--but they are being written by an out of house writing
group, and we have no control over when they get done. For those who remember
the very beginnings of the old Atari, most of us went around for the first
two years, desperately trying to get ahold of the technical reference notes--
it wasn't until the 800 had been out a while (read a couple of years) before
the docs started becoming available.
If you have technical questions about the machine, a language, etc., call
our Tech Support Linesa 408-745-2004, 2005, or 2006. I promise you'll get
an answer to your question (and if my people or I don't know the answer,
we'll find out). We're a lot smaller than the old Atari was, but we're
sincerely trying to do what you want. Thanks!
--alex leavens (Technical Support Manager @Atari)
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 21:39:06 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: C Comps.
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <870225021027.057930@RADC-MULTICS.ARPA>, Peck@RADC-MULTICS.ARPA
(Rodney) says:
>
>
> I'm REALLY fed up with trying to configure my Alcyon C compiler to run
> in a ram disk neatly. I'm using microGnu Emacs, and the Alcyon C stuff,
> and I want to have the modules used in compling in another dir. I can
> do all this, but the programs that actually compile things look in the
> default dir for the modules so I have to go and modify the batch files
> to give explicit pathnames for each program and file. Unfortunately,
> link doesn't take pathnames. Drat.
You should check out Beckemeyer's C-Shell (Beckemeyer Development Tools),
which is a nice C-Shell style command line interpreter that supports scripts,
path environments (path = . C:\source c:\bin c:\lib, etc.)
and a bunch of other stuff. BDT is in Berkeley, CA.
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS Atari: 408-745-2160
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 21:28:13 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: The future of the ST line of computers (and something NEW)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
> This one is directed to the folks at Atari: is the SM125 going to replace the
> SM124, or is it the "multi-sync" monitor we've heard about?
We have not, to my knowledge, replaced the SM124, nor are we going to do
so. I know that the SM125 was made available in Europe, but if the picutre
quality is not good, they should have it adjusted by their dealer, as it
is apparently the same hardware in a different box.
>
>> -There have been no fundamental advances in the capabilities
>> of the ST series over the last one and a half year, in fact Atari
>> has changed to a major manufacturer of vaporware...
>
> Again, this one is for Atari: why can't one of you guys give us a definitive
> answer about the blitter & rom upgrades? The fact that you won't speak up on
> this issue doesn't do much for our (existing ST owners) confidence in Atari.
> And, we know you _do_ read these questions - you only seem to answer the
> less painful ones (less painful, in the sense that they won't hurt your
> business as much).
The blitter and ROMS are _done_. Our problem is with our supplier, who
cannot seem to produce the things in any reasonable quantity (right now,
we're averaging 1 or 2 chips _per wafer_. Not good.) Needless to say,
we are trying to second source this, but redoing the chip stuff for a
different manufacturer is non-trivial. I should have some more news in
a couple of weeks.
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 22:00:29 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: new moderated newsgroup(s)(Really lack of support)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <9650@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU>, appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L.
Appelbaum) says:
> Cc: appelbau
>
> So when are we going to see some real support for the 8-bits???
I'm now doing support for the 8-bits on GEnie as well. Took me a little
while.... (Had to wade through like 5 zillion messages... <grin>)
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 20:26:15 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Problems with Fattrib on a directory
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> I have been using 'Fattrib' gemdos function to read the attributes of a
> directory but all it returns is 0 without bit 0x10 set to indicate that
> it is a directory.
I just spoke with one of the programmers, and apparently you can't read
the directory bit using Fattrib. This is because Fattrib has the possibility
of changing the values for this attribute bit, and since doing so would
roach the system (you don't want to set a non-directory file to a directory,
and vice-versa), the call just doesn't return that info. The programmer
suggested using Fsfirst, which also returns the attrib info, but in a read-only
fashion.
--alex (The Other One)
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 21:04:25 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Buying an Atari computer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> Is Atari's support adequate? Well, Apple doesn't (to my knowledge) doesn't
> run a public-access BBS (IBM does, though the number is a closely guarded
> secret, apparently). When I used to be a member of the old fa.info-mac, I
> don't remember anybody from Apple ever contributing anything (in fact,
> Apple's net address was a matter of considerable speculation). Things could
> be a lot better, but they could also be a lot worse.
We do, in fact, run a BBS--it has five lines, and can be reached at:
408-745-5308
5970
2642
4458
5664
The lines cascade, so if you just want to get on, dial any number.
--alex (@Atari)
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON%hila.UUCP%FINGATE.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU.UUCP (03/06/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node SAMPO
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550 <sampo::tripmgr>... User unknown
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Reply-To: santra::Score.Stanford.edu::Info-Atari16
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <FINHUTC::INFO-A16@santra.UUCP>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #114
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Friday, March 6, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 114
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
An interesting crash
MegaST bus specification?
SHAR
Changing the Mouse Handler
Changing the Mouse Handler
Okimate 20 review, OKIMATE.HEX file
Signatures
Heap overflow in TDI
ACC and Auto
Memory Shortage Problem????
memory upgrade for 520ST
Re: Magic Sac
Microsoft Write
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 18:45:27 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <2337@usceast.UUCP>, tech@usceast.UUCP (Bill Wood) writes:
> While I kind of agree with the sentiments stated above. I.E. Being
> positive in a bad situation and yelling if that doesn't work. Perhaps we
> are mad at the wrong people.
>
> I am MAD AS HELL AT DIGITAL RESEARCH!!!
While I cannot, in my official capacity here, cast aspersions on Digital
Research, there are certainly those who echo Bill Wood's sentiments. The
bottom line is, GEM was there when we needed it. The alternative, Windows,
would have probably taken an extra year, a year we could not afford.
We've been working hard at going through the code and making it work as best
we can, especially in the case of problems (like the 40 folder limit) that
turn up as we go along.
All in all, a most interesting set of observations, Bill.
> By the way Neil, if you are reading this, I sure hope that you
> guys will remember us when you get around to designing you 32-bit
> system. I would very much rather give you guys $1500.00 or so for a box
> that will work with my Supra drive on the DMA port than have to sell my
> system and do the dreaded market search for a 32-bit system. So here is
> my vote for a box that can use the ST as a fast terminal instead or
> possibly in addition to the 1024 squared system I am sure you guys are
> designing.
As a matter of fact, the system you describe is almost exactly what we're
working on. In the works is a 68020-based system which has none of its own
I/O except for a pair of DMA ports. It will plug into the back of a current
ST computer and act as a high-powered number cruncher. The 68881 and
Motorola MMU will also be part of the hardware, with UNIX system V or some
close relation being the software part. The ST acts as a "genius terminal".
--->Neil Harris @ Atari...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris / CIS: 70007,1135 / Delphi: NEILHARRIS / GENIE: NHARRIS
WELL: neil / Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 87 21:42:45 PST
From: <KJBSF@slacvm.bitnet>
Reply-To: KJBSF%SLACVM.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: An interesting crash
I've just found an interesting way to crash your ST, guaranteed.
Boot up with the control panel installed, and after you get the
desktop, open a disk window. Then open the Control Panel and
re-select the disk window over it. If you now try to select
anything on the control panel via the right-button deal the system
will come to a screeching halt.
This sounds like a bug to me.
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 87 19:38:05 GMT
From: sdcc6!sdcc12!st69@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Este Sikstinon)
Subject: MegaST bus specification?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
.MAILER-DAEMON%hila.UUCP%FINGATE.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU.UUCP (03/08/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
mail11: %MAIL-E-LOGLINK, error creating network link to node SAMPO
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550 <sampo::tripmgr>... User unknown
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Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <FINHUTC::INFO-A16@santra.UUCP>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #117
To: <atari520@fingate>, <sampo::fingate::tripmgr>
Original-To: <atari520@fingate>,<tripmgr%sampo.fudec@fingate>
Info-Atari16 Digest Saturday, March 7, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 117
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Let's here it for ATARI
Re: Changing the Mouse Handler
Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
HD & LogiKhrons: do they get along?
Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
Re: Memory Shortage Problem????
Re: Quiry about the reliability of Atari hard disks
Atari Fairs for 1987
Re: LISP for the ST
How do you adjust floppy drive speed?
Screendumps (printer driver) FINALLY!! for LQ-800
Standards
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 19:09:26 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Let's here it for ATARI
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> I've been really impressed by Alex Leavans.
> He seems to know a great deal about both lines of computers.
>>Blush<< Thank you. I hope to continue to be of help to you all.
That's what I'm here for!
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 18:53:11 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Changing the Mouse Handler
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> Mouse handler characteristics get reset after exiting a program?
Probably. You might try making it a desk acc, though, and keying off
of system messages...
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 18:56:23 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> Like Bill Wood, I would also like to see a cheap add-on box that will
> give the ST 68020/68881 power (ala Mac II...).
Those are almost exactly the specs for our upcoming 68020 box which will
plug into the back of the DMA port on existing ST's, and use the ST as
a superfast smart terminal. (The 68020 box looks like sometime in 88).
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
------------------------------
Date: 0 0 00:00:00 EDT
From: "V5130B::MENTON" <menton@v5130b.decnet>
Subject: HD & LogiKhrons: do they get along?
To: "info-atari16" <info-atari16@su-score>
Reply-To: "V5130B::MENTON" <menton@v5130b.decnet>
Several of us are using the LogiKhron clock module that plugs into the
cartridge port of the ST. We've been quite happy with them for several months,
BUT: we've just connected Supra 20 meg hard drives.
I seem to remember, many months ago, comments about the LogiKhron
creating problems when a hard drive is used. Can someone refresh my memory
on this point? Is it still felt that LogiKhron clock modules and hard drives
do not get along?
Bob Menton KG3J
MENTON@NRL-ACOUSTICS
"You know better than to trust a strange computer."
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 11:57:33 GMT
From: ihnp4!chinet!cabbie@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Andrews)
Subject: Re: Upgrading a 1040 to 4 Megs
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <579@atari.UUCP> neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) writes:
>In article <2337@usceast.UUCP>, tech@usceast.UUCP (Bill Wood) writes:
>> I am MAD AS HELL AT DIGITAL RESEARCH!!!
>While I cannot, in my official capacity here, cast aspersions on Digital
>Research, there are certainly those who echo Bill Wood's sentiments. The
>bottom line is, GEM was there when we needed it. The alternative, Windows,
>would have probably taken an extra year, a year we could not afford.
I tend to agree that DRI GEM is not what it is all seems to be, at least
it is a semi workable OS albeit brain-damaged.
>We've been working hard at going through the code and making it work as best
>we can, especially in the case of problems (like the 40 folder limit) that
>turn up as we go along.
I for one can see the effort put forth by the staff at Atari to fix the
bugs in the current OS.
>All in all, a most interesting set of observations, Bill.
>
>> By the way Neil, if you are reading this, I sure hope that you
>> guys will remember us when you get around to designing you 32-bit
>> system. I would very much rather give you guys $1500.00 or so for a box
(remainder of paragraph deleted)
>As a matter of fact, the system you describe is almost exactly what we're
>working on. In the works is a 68020-based system which has none of its own
>I/O except for a pair of DMA ports. It will plug into the back of a current
>ST computer and act as a high-powered number cruncher. The 68881 and
>Motorola MMU will also be part of the hardware, with UNIX system V or some
>close relation being the software part. The ST acts as a "genius terminal".
That is the very thing that I am looking for Neil. I have seen
a lot of veteran users around chicago 'throwing away' the GEM interface
at almost every occasion and reverting to a UNIX like environment. The
guys (and gals) seem to be using Micro-c-shell or similar for most
work. The generic users are still using GEM but the hobby programmers
are using a Command line interface. One comment on UNIX system V or
"some close relation". Make it TRUE Unix system 5.X! And throw away the
MSDOS compatability for file structure, diskette usage, etc. True it
might be a nightmare to write a manual for the new user describing the
system, but this new sytem that you describe is not for the new user
anyway. I had some serious second thoughts about the ST series and the
future, but with what you are telling us I will hang in there. I
personally want a system that has UNIX system 5.X, capabilities for
2-6 serial ports and can support any size or number of drives. Of
course the system will come with all 'c' tools for programming and some
type of 'vi' editor. Now for the good part. Sell the critter for
$1200-$2200! If all of these requirements are met let me know what the
final cost is with shipping and I will transfer the funds now! If you
are taking orders put me down for one (maybe two).
--
--->Neil Harris @ Atari...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
--
*******************************************************************************
Any opinions expressed above are my own. Rich Andrews
They can be yours too. Please send $19.95 to.....ihnp4!chinet!cabbie
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 18:58:54 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Memory Shortage Problem????
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> ...Eternal ramdisc, and NEO doesnt' run.
> P.S. When I reduce the RAMdisk to 80k, NEO.PRG runs, but is buggy.
A number of the ramdiscs on the market chew up memory in odd ways,
especially the ones that are supposed to survive reset. I'd try a
different eternal ramdisc, and see if that fixes the problem.
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 19:04:36 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Quiry about the reliability of Atari hard disks
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> I have the opportunity to purchase an Atari 20 Mbyte hard disk for our
> 1040ST. The drive appears to be in good condition though it comes used and
> Hard
> disk appears to be in vogue, wouldn't a large RAM disk in memory serve even
> better for quiet and fast temporary storage?
>
Developing off a ram disc is (IMHO) nice, but asking for trouble. What
happens if the program you're developing crashes the machine? Your source
code is history. what happens if you get a power surge or a blackout?
History. I much prefer a hard disc.
I've had an Atari 20 meg hard disc for 1 1/2 years now, and it runs
very reliably. Be sure to get rev. 8 of the hard disc software if you
get the drive.
--alex @ Atari
BIX: alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 18:16:58 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Atari Fairs for 1987
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
SCHEDULED ATARI FAIRS
MARCH 1987
Hilton Hotel - Allentown, PA
Sat 03/14/87 & Sun 03/15/87
Sponsored by: ABE's ACES
Contact: Shirley Bickert (215) 837-6799
110 Old Forge Dr, Bath, PA 18014
APRIL 1987
Salt Lake City, UT
Fri 04/10/87, Sat 04/11/87
Sponsored by: ACE of Salt Lake
Contact: Chris Christopolus (801) 486-8009
P.O. Box 26664, Salt Lake City, UT 84126
APRIL 1987
Buffalo Convention Center - Buffalo, NY
Sat 04/25/87, Sun 04/26/87
Sponsored by: Western New York Atari User Group
Contact: Bill Beerbower (716) 875-6555
P.O. Box 59, Buffalo, NY 14216
MAY 1987
Infomart - Dallas, TX
Fri 05/08/87, Sat 05/09/87
Sponsored by: DAL-ACE, North Texas ST Users
Contact: Bill Bailey (214) 240-4337
4834 Collingwood, Garland, TX 75043
MAY 1987
Seattle Center, FLAG Pavillion - Seattle, WA
Sat 05/16/87, Sun 05/17/87
Sponsored by: 5 local user groups
Contact: Bruce Noonan (206) 775-0545/745-2867
21700 76 Ave. West, Edmonds, WA 98020
JUNE 1987
JULY 1987
Ramada Hotel O'Hare - Rosemont, IL
Sat 07/25/87, Sun 07/26/87
Sponsors: Consortium of local user groups including SCAT &
LCACE & CL.A.U.G.
Contact: Rich Bollmeier (312) 662-8676
2928 Brookside, Waukegan, IL 60085
AUGUST 1987
Detroit, MI -- Details forthcoming
SEPTEMBER 1987
Glendale Civic Auditorium - Glendale, CA
Sat 09/19/87, Sun 09/20/87
Sponsored by: ACENET
Contact: John King Tarpinian (818) 760-1831
6055 Cahuenga Blvd. #2, N. Hollywood, CA 91606
SEPTEMBER 1987
Worcester Centrum - Worcester, MA
Sat 09/26/87, Sun 09/27/87 - tentative
Sponsored by: Boston Computer Society's Atari SIG
Alan Glick (617) 296-8286
1 Center Plaza, Boston, MA 02108
OCTOBER 1987
Washington D. C. - facility still to be determined
Sat 10/17/87
Sponsored by: NOVATARI
Contact: Joe Waters (703) 450-4761
122 N. Johnson Rd., Sterling, VA 22170
NOVEMBER 1987
Palm Beach, FL - facility not yet determined
Sat 11/21/87, Sun 11/22/87
Sponsored by: Atari Club of the Palm Beaches
Contact: Jim Woodward (305) 736-5532
605 S.W. 1st Court, Boynton Beach, FL 33435
NOVEMBER 1987
San Jose, CA - facility not yet determined
For further information contact; Sandi Austin, Atari Corp, 1196
Borregas Ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94086, (408) 745-2012.
--
--->Neil Harris @ Atari...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris / CIS: 70007,1135 / Delphi: NEILHARRIS / GENIE: NHARRIS
WELL: neil / Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 16:55:02 GMT
From: shebs@utah-cs.arpa (Stanley Shebs)
Subject: Re: LISP for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <8703060629.AA10665@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> FORSTER@cs.umass.edu (David
Forster) writes:
>Benchmarks showed that it [Cambridge Lisp] ran 20 times slower than
>equivalent products on the Mac, BUT the Cambridge LISP was being interpreted,
>and the Mac stuff was running compiled. If the Cambridge code had been
>compiled, it would probably have performed better, but 20 times better?
>I don't think so.
Actually, that's a common rule of thumb for compiled vs interpreted Lisps,
though the number varies from 10 times faster to maybe 100 times faster
for compilation. Depends on smartness of compiler and smartness of
interpreter, and also on the dialect...
>Why on earth they didn't go that extra step to define structures I do not
>know. Surely it's not that much work? It should be possible to define
>structs based on arrays without very much work (and/or based on lists, but
>access to arrays will be faster).
Defstructs based on some other object (say arrays) are easy to do, just a
hairy macro. Charniak/Riesbeck/McDermott's AI Programming Techniques
(published by Lawrence Erlbaum Associates) discusses the details of writing
one. A fly in the ointment tho - no way to distinguish an array created
via defstruct from one created by make-array. So serious Lisps have an
additional datatype that is like an array but is not arrayp. The people
that built Cambridge Lisp care a little about semantics, so I imagine they
rejected the easy but unsafe way to do defstructs, and didn't want the
overhead associated with a completely new datatype either.
>Does anyone out there have information about other LISP's?
Sandra Loosemore has been working on a full-scale CL for the ST, but
she's been slacking off lately. The compiler is reasonably good...
Also, we've been putting together a PSL successor at Utah designed to be
efficient, portable, modular, etc. It prints out "hello world" now, but
not much more! Anyway, since I've just acquired an ST, a port to it will
no doubt happen in the near future (we already have 68K code generation)...
>Thanks, David Forster
stan shebs
shebs@cs.utah.edu
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 06:23:12 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: How do you adjust floppy drive speed?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
[]
I just got a PD speed checking program (from Snail Mail), and turned it
loose on my drive. It reads 304.0 msec. Is that out of range? If it is,
can somebody tell me how one adjusts the speed? (I have a 1040STf with the
standard internal double-sided drive.) Thanks!
- Moshe Braner
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 13:54:56 GMT
From: ihnp4!houxm!homxb!genesis!odyssey!jcs@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (j.c.schwebel)
Subject: Screendumps (printer driver) FINALLY!! for LQ-800
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
After many pleas to the net,
I finally got screen dumps to work on my 24 pin Epson LQ-800 Printer,
despite my complete ignorance about printer drivers and
refusal to write a line of code for my Atari 1040.
This was done by using the latest issue of Start Magazine and Disk
which has a program by Tom Hudson to generate printer drivers.
Using this program one can generate drivers to give many different
formats of screen dumps.
The problem with using the standard Epson driver with the LQ-800, I think,
is that it puts the printer in single density graphics mode but only spaces
about 1/3 (60/180)? of a line at the end of each line.
I will post a driver to whomever wants it as soon as I figure out a good
standard format. There are tradeoffs between number of pins used,
size, quality, and speed of printing.
It probably would be more valuable to post the driver creator program;
I'll have to check if this is PD.
Thank You Tom Hudson!
------------------------------
Date: 6 Mar 87 21:07:40 GMT
From: ucsdhub!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!ncrcae!usceast!tech@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Bill Wood)
Subject: Standards
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
First, let me say 'Thank you' for the kind response to my previous
posting, and thank you to Neil and Alex for the news.
Since the St/020 is still in the design phase and you haven't had a
chance to 'finish' the operating system, I would like to propose that it
might be time for all of us to have a frank discussion about what we
want VS what is commercially wise.
First, Please set some more and better standards for the current line of
computers. Ex) Please define the printer driver standard. No one knows
the 'proper' way to interface a different printer. We can't all afford a
laser printer yet since, in my case at least, I have to save for
the new St/020. I might be able to swing a 24 pin dot matrix though.
But what to do?
You might also think about defining a standard for a set of bounds
checking registers, something to go next to the blitter that would allow
memory protection in a multi-tasking environment. I use the MTC-Shell
alot and it is coming along fine as a 'user' environment, however as a
'programmers' environment it fails because it can't guarantee the
integrity of the memory image.
I would also like to see a new trap defined that would perform all of
the standard UNIX system calls on the ST/520. It would be silly to not
be able to compile and run non graphic applications on both of these
systems transparently. Since it is obvious that you will have to make
some changes to the 520 to use it as a 'genius graphic terminal' (who
thought that up?) thinking ahead at this time would be wonderful.
Concerning the ST/020, THANKS FOR THE GOOD NEWS!!!!! but please don't be
so short sighted as to believe that we may only want ONE of them. With
two DMA channels and a well written kernel a 128 node hypercube is
possible with nothing but cable and off the shelf parts. Think about it!
The possibilities are most amazing! Also, please define how we do the
same with the 520. I would love to use a SECOND 520 as a text formatter
and print buffer. The CPU is down around $300.00 but without a DMA
standard and a new device driver what's the point? I have been waiting
patiently for the DMA standard to develop. I think it is one of the more
exciting aspects of the ST line. I would really LOVE to perform a remote
login to a second unit on the DMA buss and have it perform useful work
for me. A 520 would be ideal for some jobs that the ST020 would be
wasted on and it would seem that a cable, a STANDARD, and a rom are all
that I need to do this today. I am willing to do the cable and would be
willing to work on the rom but YOU guys have to set the standard.
Well this is long winded so I will stop. Thanks for the good news about
the product line and please do not consider the above to be demands. It
just seems that what the ST line of computers needs more than anything
else right now is an integrated set of specifications for a true
parallel multiprocessing environment. Here's hoping you will pause to
reflect on just how POWERFUL this system could be with the right
interconnection scheme.
Have a good one!
Bill Wood (!usceast!tech)
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) (03/18/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:16:50 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 0913; Thu, 19 Mar 87 22:44:15 FIN
Date: Wed 18 Mar 87 11:03:02 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #130
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 18, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 130
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
STarter Kit dissolved
Hippo video digitizer
UUCODE desk accessory ordering info
520 in Canada
Request for propaganda
The new USENET groups
Re: Re: RAMD_LED - (nf)
Re: moving across the ocean
Re: News From Hannover Messe
Re: clearing the screen
Re: Two questions on ST add-{o|i}ns
Re: News From Hannover Messe
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: News From Hannover Messe
Re: Blit/ROM upgrades
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 12 Mar 87 13:35:00 GMT
From: ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!franco@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: STarter Kit dissolved
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Now that there are formal ways to obtain PD software for the ST (by means of
Turner, Demillo etc...) the need for the STarter Kit has dissolved.
Therefore, effective immediately, the Bloomington ST users will no longer
make copies of the STarter Kit available (In three days the STarter Kit will
really be dissolved as I will reclaim the disks containing it at that time).
Over 200 copies of different versions of the STarter Kit were mailed out and
many of these were duplicated and redistributed. The operation went very
smoothly - nearly everyone followed instructions to a T and sent the correct
amount of postage or more and everyone formatted their disks properly once
that request was made. Thank you!
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 13:47:03 GMT
From: kodak!ektools!bruce@CS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Bruce D. Nelson )
Subject: Hippo video digitizer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I have a HippoVision video digitizer recently purchased at my user's group
auction. All over the package, it states it works on b&w or color monitors.
(I mean the program displays on a color or b&w system.)
So far it works on a color system (via the modulator output), but all I get
on the b&w monitor is a bunch of vertical bars of different densities.
Does anyone out there have any experience with the HippoVision? I can use it
via the modulator to my color tv, but I'd rather use the b&w monitor. Is there
any company that took over Hippo's support or knows anything about their
products?
Bruce D. Nelson, Sr. Appl. Analyst: Software Maintenance, Production Systems
EASTMAN KODAK COMPANY, 901 Elmgrove Rd., Rochester, NY 14650, 716 726-7890
UUCP: {allegra, seismo}!rochester!kodak!ektools!bruce
ARPA: kodak!ektools!bruce@rochester.ARPA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 87 01:01:42 EST
From: Michael DeCorte <l40a%CLUTX.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
To: INFO-ATARI16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
>>...Is there a
>> program to check the drive speeds for the ST, and if so how do you adjust an
>> incorrect speed?
>>
> There is a public domain program, although I haven't personally seen it,
> that does this. One thing to remember, though, is that you can't adjust
> the drive speed on ST drives the same way you can on 8 bit drives.
> (There's apparently no easily adjusted pot, the way there was on 810's).
I wrote a little program to check disk speeds a while back. It is on
BIX. If anyone want's it, I will send it to you. The reason I wrote
it was I was interested if I could add another sector/track. I also
promised to make a good disk cache back then. Well it is getting done
very slowly (I have 3 jobs and an 18 hour class load).
michael decorte
l40a@clutx.bitnet
p.s. I am very impressed in the recent flux of support from atari on
the net and promises of a 68020 box, blitter and roms but
I will still not be able to recommend the ST to people until
I find out that the roms have been fixed. (40 folder limit is at the top
of the list for me) :-(
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 87 12:43 EST
From: KIMMEL%ecs.umass.edu@RELAY.CS.NET
To: Info-Atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: UUCODE desk accessory ordering info
X-VMS-To: CSNET%"Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu"
I have written a desk accessory called UUCODE. It allows you to UUENCODE
or UUDECODE a file in any GEM application. In addition, it will add
'u's to the end of each data line as it encodes, to prevent truncation
of trailing spaces, and adds spaces to "short lines" as it decodes.
It also allows you to place the output files from both UUENCODE and
UUDECODE in any directory or disk you want. Full documentation,
along with source code and the accessory, is included in the distribution
ARC file.
If you'd like a UUENCODED copy sent to you, send me mail to any of the
addresses below.
-Matt Kimmel,
BITNet: KIMMEL@UMAECS.BITNET
ARPANet: KIMMEL%UMAECS.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA
Other: KIMMEL@ECS.UMASS.EDU
CSNet: KIMMEL@UMASS-ECS.CSNET (I'm not sure if this works)
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 04:18:40 GMT
From: fluke!ssc-vax!benoni@BEAVER.CS.WASHINGTON.EDU (Charles L Ditzel)
Subject: 520 in Canada
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Just an observation :
On a recent trip to Vancouver, BC I dropped by a store
that was selling Atari ST (i think it was A&B Sound in the downtown
area). They were selling a very odd creature :
A 1040 ST Package *marked* 520 ST on the exterior.
It came with a single sided internal drive and monitor.
The salesmen claimed that Atari 520 ST had sold
out and as a fix...Atari had come up with the
above solution.
I was fascinated. Is this some future migration...?
it makes sense to me.
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 04:05:19 GMT
From: trwrb!wiley!bob@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Bob Amstadt)
Subject: Request for propaganda
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I'm currently considering purchasing a "home" computer. Actually, I'm
trying to decide between an ST and an Amiga (forgive me). I've already
done some looking into the differences, but I'm afraid that I'm a little
behind the times. I was hoping that someone could answer some questions
for me:
1. Has Atari upgraded their operating system to allow some form
of multitasking? If not does someone else supply a multitasking
OS? What about MINIX?
2. Who retails the ST line in the Redondo Beach (LA) area?
3. Who supplies what hard disks for the ST?
4. Does X Windows run on the ST?
5. Does GNU emacs or a micro emacs run on the ST?
Thanks for your patience.
Bob Amstadt
trwrb.uucp!wiley!bob
csvax.caltech.edu!wiley!bob
bob@wiley.uucp
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 87 14:52 EST
From: KIMMEL%ecs.umass.edu@RELAY.CS.NET
To: Info-Atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: The new USENET groups
X-VMS-To: CSNET%"Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu"
Are there any plans to start a mirrored group, perhaps similar to
the ARPANet's Unix-Sources, to distribute the postings on the new
moderated UUCP Atari ST mod.sources-type groups? I feel like I'm
missing out, not being on Usenet. If nobody's considered this,
I hereby present it as an idea.
-Matt Kimmel,
KIMMEL@UMAECS.BITNET
KIMMEL%UMAECS.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA
KIMMEL@ECS.UMASS.EDU
------------------------------
Date: 10 Mar 87 21:44:00 GMT
From: mcvax!unido!tub!csch@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: Re: RAMD_LED - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
As you know, I wrote that little stuff ---
On the STs we're using here it works correctly, but I also heard about
this problem. I'm going to fix it !!!
OK ???
Any suggestions and help welcome !
Clemens Schrimpe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact via:
csch@tub.uucp
from the US: ...!pyramid!tub!csch
from Europe: ...!unido!tub!csch
Bitnet: csch@db0tui6 = tub.bitnet
tel.: +49-30-393-3574
+49-30-332-4015
tlx.: (west-germany) + 186672 rdt d
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 21:29:15 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: moving across the ocean
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <258@nikhefh.UUCP>, t02@nikhefh.UUCP (Don Petcher) says:
>
>
> Presently, I live in Amsterdam, but will be moving back to the U.S. soon.
> Has anyone had experience using a European Atari in the U.S.
> (with simple step up transformers) or vice versa? If so please let me
> know how it works.
I believe that you're going to run into trouble with US Customs,
since I think European ST's haven't passed FCC shielding requirments.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 21:40:21 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <88@osupyr.UUCP>, akw@osupyr.UUCP (FarOff MicroDesigns) says:
>
> Alex, a related question...is/will Atari support/be supporting an official
> RAM upgrade for us 512K owners (and those unfortunate 256K owners somewhere
> in EurAsia with 260STs) now or anytime in the future?
>
Don't know, but I tend to doubt it. There are already a large number of
good inexpensive RAM upgrades available.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 21:31:42 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: clearing the screen
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <13873@cca.CCA.COM>, m204help@cca.CCA.COM (Keith Hedger) says:
>
>
> I'm writing a program using the MEGAMAX C system and my program is going
> to spit out lines of output to the screen. My problem is that I want to
> clear the screen (exit the desktop), have my program display its' information,
> then return to the desktop.
> How do I do this ???
Open a window.
Write a filled rectangle of color white to the dimensions of the window.
(This effectively blanks the window by painting the whole screen white).
DO your stuff.
CLose the window.
Delete the window handle.
Exit.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:17:07 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Two questions on ST add-{o|i}ns
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <8703111519.AA03527@yale-eli.YALE.ARPA>, fischer-michael@YALE.ARPA
(Michael Fischer) says:
>
> Late last summer, someone at Atari said that such a program was
> already finished, was being used in-house at Atari, and would be
> released shortly after it had been tested thoroughly. It never
> was.
> That's the last we've heard. We know the program exists and has
> been in daily use at Atari for over six months. We just want to
> know when we can have it.
>
Yep, I know. I'd like to see it released also--Unfortunately, I'm not the
one who has a say-so in this matter.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:49:01 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <849@water.UUCP>, ljdickey@water.UUCP says:
>
> What is a "blitter", and what difference will I notice if I get one?
A blitter is a hardware co-processor dedicated to graphics. You'll
notice about a 5 fold increase in the performance of many graphics operations
with one installed.
> What bugs will be killed by new ROMS?
I'll have to get a list. I know that the underscore bug in the file
selector's been fixed--I don't know what else.
> What new features will the new ROMS have?
Other than bug fixes and blitter support, none, as far as I know.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 18:01:35 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <901@chinet.UUCP>, cabbie@chinet.UUCP (Richard Andrews) says:
+---------------------------------------------------------
+
+
+ I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play
+ tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk
+ drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive.
+ (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do
+ to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat
+ to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage!
+
+
+ --
+---------------------------------------------------------
i have a BMS (Berekely MicroSystems) driver and it supports 2 drives
(in my case a 10 and a 20Mbyte). I believe the driver will run
without their board. Their number is:
(415) 530-3436
there is an extensive article on the BMS system in the current copy
of STapplications
I am in no way associated etc......
--
---------------
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:26:34 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <1657@trwrb.UUCP>, sansom@trwrb.UUCP (Richard Sansom) says:
>
> Hmmm. Without the blitter upgrade, what good _are_ these ROMs? I don't
> mean to sound negative, but it was my understanding that the ROMs you are
> talking about contain only the hooks needed by TOS to use the blitter
> (correct me if I'm wrong). I think most of us are waiting for the GEMDOS
> bug fixes before buying a new set of ROMs (at least I am).
The new ROMS will also incorporate bug fixes and some tightening up of
code. They will work with either the blitter installed or not.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:28:56 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Blit/ROM upgrades
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <1663@trwrb.UUCP>, sansom@trwrb.UUCP (Richard Sansom) says:
>
>>... Since the Mega-ST's will have the blit chip installed...
>
> Maybe Alex@Atari can shed some lite on this for us. Simon reports that
> Shiraz Shivji (sp) has stated that the blitter can easily be added to the
> Megas. Does this mean that the Megas won't come with the blitter?
>
As of right now the word was that we won't be shipping Megas until we
can ship 'em with blitters. And we still expect to make our late 2nd
quarter target date.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) (03/18/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:11:26 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 0820; Thu, 19 Mar 87 22:40:49 FIN
Date: Wed 18 Mar 87 11:06:13 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #131
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 18, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 131
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Batteries Included bought out.
Re: News From Hannover Messe
Re: Flaming of ATARI and the REflaming of myself
Re: basic information query
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Bad monitor, Bad service
Lots of things...
Re: RTS/CTS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:53:39 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Batteries Included bought out.
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <1753@druhi.UUCP>, lbl@druhi.UUCP (LocklearLB) says:
>
> In article <2424@dalcs.UUCP>, silvert@dalcs.UUCP writes:
> In any case, if I am wrong and EA did buy BI, then EA would be pretty
> dumb if they didn't keep distributing Tom's programs -- they certainly
> made quite a bit of money for BI!
>
Electronic Arts did in fact just buy Batteries Included.
NO word yet on what this means for us Atari owners.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:51:21 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <409@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, engst@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu
(Adam C. Engst) says:
>
>
> I would like to
> know exactly what the blitter chip will allow in terms of performance before
> I would spend extra money money for one, although I would almost certainly
> get the new ROMS. Alex, could you describe what the difference will be?
The difference is that the graphics operations that used to be performed
in software will now be performed in hardware, with a resulting increase
in speed. This thing's _fast_.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:24:32 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Flaming of ATARI and the REflaming of myself
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <8703121153.AA09496@ingres.Berkeley.EDU>, hatcher@INGRES.BERKELEY.EDU
(Doug Merritt) says:
>
> It's bad karma to start religious wars. Also, the ST is a good enough
> machine that it hurts more than helps for people to take cheap shots like
> this rather than simply pointing out what you like about the ST. It sounds
> petty.
> But what are you talking about? I've never heard of anything like
> this. Did you find a copy of the boot directions with a dumb typo
> or something?
Well, I'm not trying to start a religious war at all--just pointing out
that there are problems with every machine. Anyway, here's the story.
I was at Jerry Pournelle's house, and he had a piece of Amiga software
that he wanted to show me, told me it looked really great. "Fine", says
I, "let's see it.".
Take out disc, and follow instructions on disc as to how to boot.
No go. "Guru mediation error".
Ok, fine. Get out the manual. Try _those_ booting instructions. (THey
turn out to be slightly different). Again, no go.
Ok, let's just try a standard Amiga boot, and then...
Well, after about 20 minutes of this, we finally gave up. the silly thing
simply would _not_ boot. So we left it alone with the disc in the drive, and
went over to the ST. About 20 minutes after _that_, I happened to look
back at the Amiga, and--you guessed it--the program had booted itself.
I've had a couple more experiences like this, and they lead me to believe
that it must be me--the Amiga and I just don't get along... <grin>
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:14:40 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: basic information query
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <17799@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, john@renoir.Berkeley.EDU (John Coker)
says:
>
> I'm looking at getting an Atari system for use a graphics terminal at
> home. It looks like a good ``basic'' system is the 1000 (number?).
You mean the 1040 ST, 1 Meg memory, built in DSDD 3.5" drive.
> - the most important, is there a good editor? Is there an emacs,
> preferably something based on Stallman's emacs? I could even
> survive with vi if necessary (but not the mouse/menus editors
> I've seen running).
There's a really nice version of MicroEMACS available,
the version is up around 3.7 or 3.8.
> - a good compiler--what is your recommendation for a C compiler
> which is relatively bug-free and has at least the basic libraries
> for someone used to writing C under UNIX? Is there any hope of
> a debugger?
I use the Alcyon Compiler from the Developer's kit, and like it.
Other people like Mark Williams and Megamax.
> - modem support. Can you use the st as a terminal? If so, how
> much would modem support be? I already have a 2400 baud modem
> (and regular terminal).
There are several programs that emulate a VT-100, and the machine
comes with a VT-52 emulator desk accessory free.
> - shell programs. Is there anything which comes even close to
> a UNIX shell? Preferably c-shell, but even the Bourne shell
> would be better than the window-y thing I've seen used.
Dave Beckemeyer's C-Shell is very good.
> - up/down-loading--how can you transfer files from a Vax over a
> modem line? Is there a kermit or something?
There are several versions of kermit.
> - how easy is it to write code which accesses all the bits on the
> screen without going through the window system? Can I just write
> a program which scribbles on the frame buffer?
It's quite easy to get at the screen.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 22:56:09 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <901@chinet.UUCP>, cabbie@chinet.UUCP (Richard Andrews) says:
>
>
> I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play
> tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk
> drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive.
> (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do
> to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat
> to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage!
>
If you've got a production drive, I think there's a switch on the
Atari controller board that allows you to set what logical unit the
drive is. Just change that, and...
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 23:40:05 GMT
From: imagen!atari!dyer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> in article <901@chinet.UUCP>, cabbie@chinet.UUCP (Richard Andrews) says:
>> I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play
>> tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk
>> drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive.
>> (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do
>> to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat
>> to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage!
>>
> If you've got a production drive, I think there's a switch on the
> Atari controller board that allows you to set what logical unit the
> drive is. Just change that, and...
Sorry, Alex --- that doesn't help. ->ooof!<- [I just kicked his shins:]
The Adaptec controller will indeed support more than one drive.
The current AHDI.PRG hard disk driver does not support more than
one drive per controller. And naturally, Atari does not
encourage or condone such modifications to the hardware....
--
-Landon Dyer, Atari Corp. {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
The views expressed here do not not
necessarily reflect those of Atari Corp. Segments are for worms.
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 23:57:23 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <657@atari.UUCP>, leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) says:
+---------------------------------------------------------
+
+ in article <901@chinet.UUCP>, cabbie@chinet.UUCP (Richard Andrews) says:
++
++
++ I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play
++ tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk
++ drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive.
++ (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do
++ to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat
++ to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage!
++
+ If you've got a production drive, I think there's a switch on the
+ Atari controller board that allows you to set what logical unit the
+ drive is. Just change that, and...
it bloody well won't work. listen if you are going to speak as an
atari representive you have a responsiblity to know what you're
talking about....
atari does not do drive selection properly, instead the drive number
is stored as the high order bit of each SCSI command, hence a
special driver is needed before you can use two drives, not to
mention the fact that the formatter etc. doesn't know about a second
drive. If you want to see how it's done I suggest the current copy
of STapplications, there's a good article by Tom Love on a two drive
system.
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 19:15:48 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!pete@seismo.css.gov (Peter Santangeli)
Subject: Bad monitor, Bad service
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hi everybody,
Just thought I'd relate a little horror story I've been having
with the service department of Atari here in Toronto.
I've had my 1040 for about a year now, and have been mostly satisfied
with the machine. cheap and powerfull. The computer itself seems to be pretty
reliable. my sm124 however...
My monitor developped a glitch a little while ago that takes the form
of the image shifting left to right or right to left at random interval and
random distances. The distance is usually less thatn 5 mm and the entire image
usually shifts, though occasionally I also notice horizontal spikes and wave-
ering.
I took my monitor to Atari service here in Toronto, and they said it
would take 2-3 days. 7 days later, they told me it was done. I went out to
pick it up: all there was was a note:No problems, must be with computer.
This seemed wierd to me as my color monitor has NEVER given me problems.
Anyways, I took in the whole system. 5 days later. "couldn't find the problem".
Damn! I thought. must be interferance. (though I had checked that). SO
I set the stupid thing up at WORK. same problem. I took it home, and UNPLUGGED
EVERY APPLIANCE AND ELECTRICAL DEVICE IN THE HOUSE. ***SAME PROBLEM***!!!!
These guys are either BLIND or just plain aren't willing to spend the
time to find the problem. Frankly, I am EXTREMELY PISSED OFF. I spent over
$2000 on atari equipment. Yah, the software isn't great, I can live with that.
I CAN'T LIVE WITH RUDE AND INEFFECTIVE SERVICE.
So, I ask the net, has ANYBODY had the kind of monitor problems I have
been having? I guess I am forced to open the damn thing up myself and fix it.
Let's hope I don't electrocute myself (for atari Canada's sake!)
Pete Santangeli
pete@utgpu
SNAIL : Pete Santangeli
56 Coldstream Ave
Toronto, Ont
Canada
M5N 1X8
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 08:21:26 GMT
From: ldp.dec.com!weaver@decwrl.dec.com (Dave, 297-7141, MRO2-4/E33)
Subject: Lots of things...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I had trouble trying to get this out the other night (11-Mar), here
goes again.
Re: INFO-ATARI postings
First, would whoever is posting the INFO-ATARI stuff to the net please
stop. I have no desire to clog my disk with duplicate information. If
people want the INFO-ATARI mailings, let them subscribe. Also remember
that not everyone is directly on the USENET, or for that matter on
a UN*X system. I happen to reside on a VMS system and have much cruder
access to the USENET postings. It is not easy for me to separate messages
like you UN*X folks can. There are a lot of us who receive distribution
through a gateway of one form or another.
If USENET distribution of the INFO-ATARI postings is desired, then
create "comp.sys.atari.st.info", but don't burden everyone with
duplicate information, or waste network resources.
Re: Twister
David Small specifically states in the Start article that you will
not see a performance improvement unless you turn off write verify.
He has another program (REBOOTER) that takes care of the write-verify
flag as well as making sure warm-restarts get translated to cold-restarts.
Re: Blitter upgrades/new ROMS
I personally feel that everyone should upgrade to a blitter. Unfortunately
there are some memory upgrades that are going to interfere with blitter
installation (any that cover the 68000 chip, I am told, will have problems,
of which the Aerco upgrade is one). I have yet to upgrade my 520ST because
I want to be compatable with the blitter when I do. Maybe someone from
Atari could comment on what memory upgrades will be compatable. I would
like to go to at least 2+meg
Re: Atari gripes
<FLAME ON>
I am getting sick and tired of seeing people beat up on Neil Harris and
Atari Co. about this and that. If you have a valid complaint, you can
state the complaint in a professional and responsible manner, rather than
acting like a 4 year old who wants to skip supper and eat desert! If
some of the complainers are indeed 4 year olds, then your parents should
revoke your USENET access (I wonder what the policies are regarding such
access)! Give us all a break! Atari is a business, and they will make
decisions based on the amount of business they will generate, and I am sure
that they will give due consideration to their installed base! If that
installed base acts like a bunch of screaming kids, then they may look for
new customers.
<FLAME OFF>
Give Atari constructive criticism and I am sure that they will listen
carefully. But don't expect things to change overnight, businesses
just don't work that way.
Re: Squash IBM PC syndrome (and Amiga, MAC, etc...)
Might I suggest that this is not a profitable use of time. The IBM PC
has quite valid applications, and an Atari, Amiga, MAC, are just not
everyone's cup of tea. People complain about ST's not being expandable,
fine, you could have bought an IBM PC, why didn't you??? Probably because
of its price (although clones are getting pretty cheap). If you really
wanted expandability you should have bought an Amiga, or a PC/clone.
When the PC/XT/AT are no longer viable computers, they will fall under
their own weight. What is a profitable use of time is trying to get the
software manufactures to port some of their IBM code to the Atari. You
won't convince them to do it based on computer sales (at least not yet :-).
Enough, I'll get off my Soapbox,
-Dave
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 16:24:37 GMT
From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom)
Subject: Re: RTS/CTS
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <454@ll-xn.ARPA> singer@ll-xn.ARPA (Matthew R. Singer) writes:
>You miss the point... The US Robotics HST modem is designed to use
>CTS/RTS flow control.
I guess I did miss the point. I _know_ the ST is supposed to support CTS/RTS.
Has anyone else had trouble with it? As for my setup, XON/XOFF is all I
need and it works fine.
-Rich
/// Richard E. Sansom TRW Electronics & Defense Sector \\\
\\\ {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom Redondo Beach, CA ///
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) (03/19/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:07:41 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 0472; Thu, 19 Mar 87 22:30:32 FIN
Date: Wed 18 Mar 87 16:33:38 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #132
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 18, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 132
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Life Game
Hacking at Megamax C (query)
Modula 2 Library Modules
Re: fixes for alcyon scanf and getchar?
Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #125
Re: Caution with S&S Wholesalers of Miami Beach
source vs binary
Re: News From Hannover Messe
Clock functions on boot
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 87 10:58:28 est
From: Eric Terrell <terrell@ohio-state.ARPA>
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
Below is a new and improved (higher resolution) version of my
monolife "Game of Life" program for monochrome STs. Included
is 68000 assembly languate source code, user's guide, and the
executable program.
If someone can relay this to the atari sources group, I would
appreciate it - that's where this posting belongs, but I have
not been successful in sending postings there.
-------------------- cut here --------------------
begin 644 monolife.arc
M&@A-3TY/3$E&12Y04D< @0 '0+77D3(<(& ,8#0 %" 'P!( W@ "/"/
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MB#>##$P\>9)OH $V2/(,5. HZ, $184".)#49U, /XU>?+K@*5*I!IX6Q I4
MJ0$L6(&X6'*D)U0V-@PJ2#N0;0"V &R$!" BAT\<,!0B<R*DK,^XN8XZ\GN6
M;1.X; L@GEOW;EX >_N:19K$K %"*+9EQC&)\$^Y ,C<X'-P@(#1 !9 O>&5
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end
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 06:44:20 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: Hacking at Megamax C (query)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Before I invest time into it: Has anybody found a way to minimize the
extra junk Megamax C adds to simple programs (about 1500 byte worth)?
I _guess_ that much of it can be dispensed with for programs that do NOT
use stdio, I/O redirection, etc...
Also: has anybody made an alternative printf/scanf that skips the FP stuff
(to make it smaller). Has anybody bought the Megamax library source code
(offered for $50)? Is it worth it?
These sorts of optimizations-by-the-users have been done on the DRI/Alcyon
compiler. Why not for Megamax?
- Moshe Braner
PS: does anybody know whether the Megamax Resource Construction program
will work with OSS Personal Pascal? Is the .RSC file format standard?
How would you get the Pascal .I file? Is it easy to translate the C .h
file to the .I form?
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 02:02:15 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!pete@seismo.css.gov (Peter Santangeli)
Subject: Modula 2 Library Modules
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hi Everybody!
Has anyone ever had problems compiling library modules with TDI
modula 2? I am compiling a fairly large library module. The DEF file
creates a symbol file without a hitch. The MOD file however, compiles up
to the declaration pass, and then hangs. Dead computer.
On a related note, I just noticed that my VISA has been charged for the
TDI revision 3 upgrade I ordered a month or so ago. Does this mean that
they have started shipping? Has anyone recieved a copy yet??
Thanks,
Pete Santangeli
pete@utgpu
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 14:12:00 GMT
From: slavin@NYU-ACF4.ARPA (Scott Slavin)
Subject: Re: fixes for alcyon scanf and getchar?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>What were the fixes for scanf and getchar with the Alcyon
>compiler?
Yes what were they. Can someone mail me them or better perhaps lets
create a new notes group called "gem.tos.alcyon.gdos.rumors.vapor.fixit"
Come on guys. I bought the Developers Kit because I had (and kinda still
have) my faith in Atari. I thought it worked (previous to buying it) because
Atari made it for their computer, but.... If I would have known that I had
to subscribe to a network (mainly Compuserve) to get the fixes I would have
never bought it. And I would have thought that it was me (not being a
good programmer) that made the scanf and the getchar not work with the
Alycon compiler, if it where not for this newsgroup.
Atari, please support your products.
Scott Slavin
arpa: slavin@nyu-acf4
bitnet: slavin@nyuacf7
------------------------------
Posted-From: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, MA
To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Subject: Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #125
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 13 Mar 87 16:20:05 -0800.
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 87 14:38:31 EST
From: jhs@mitre-bedford.ARPA
I believe I have the source code (in Fortran) for an ancient but highly
entertaining version of Adventure lying about on a 9-track magtape somewhere.
If anybody is interested, and assuming nobody screams "Not Public Domain",
I could probably arrange to get it read into a host on the net and make it
available. Assuming I can find and identify the magtape.
-John Sangster / jhs@mitre-bedford.arpa
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 17:15:06 GMT
From: ritcv!rsm6306@CS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Randy Marks)
Subject: Re: Caution with S&S Wholesalers of Miami Beach
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <8703121649.AA23788@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> kdale@BBNCC-EUR.ARPA (Keith
Dale) writes:
>I'm *really* angry right now, so please bear with any unprofessionalism you may
>see here.
>
>I ordered a PC system from S & S Wholesalers, Inc. of Miami Beach, FL on Jan
Here I thought I was the only one being shafted by these people.
I ordered $150 of ST software from them. When I placed the order, they said
thesoftware that I wanted was *IN STOCK* I asked 2 different times to make
sure
there was no confusion. They said since the software I wanted was in stock,
it would ship the same day. It has been *WEEKS* since I ordered the software
and I still have not received it. Their customer service people give me
a song and dance about their computers being down and delaying the order.
I strongly urge people to think twice before lifting the phone to call these
people to place an order. There are reputable outfits out there that will
give you good prices and good service. So far I have not gotten either
from S&S.
Has anybody done a survey of people on this newsgroup to find out how
different mail order outfits perform? I think it is time we did such a
survey. I will work up a form and send it out to the group next week,
compile the results and report to the group.
Randy Marks
rsm6306@ritcv.UUCP
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 87 12:46:31 PST
From: <HOWESDW@wsuvm1.bitnet>
Reply-To: HOWESDW%WSUVM1.BITNET@forsythe.stanford.edu
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Subject: source vs binary
I've been watching the ongoing discussions about the relative merits of
having source versus binary libraries with some interest, and I feel it's
time for me to toss in my two cents worth. First, I don't think that there
is anything inherently *wrong* in either type of library, but some of
the arguments that have been advanced for or against having binary/source
available (choose one) have gotten a little far afield. My own opinions
will be colored by my programming background, I've worked at our campus
computing center and am presently working as an independent micro
consultant. Like most people who work with machines for any length of
time, I've become familiar with a number of languages. These include
C, Pascal, FORTRAN, BASIC, Smalltalk, Prolog, Lisp, Icon and assembler
(8086 and 68000). This list isn't to sing my praises, but to illustrate
that I'm something of a language junky, and for good reasons (which I'll
get to in a minute).
Most of the comments that I've seen about the need for a binary
library can be summarized by "I don't have a compiler for language
X, so I wouldn't be able to use the code". This is a valid point, from
what I will term a "user" perspective (and there is nothing wrong with
that). If what you are interested in is getting a utility or a program
to solve a specific task, then binary is all you need.
However, if folks think about what types of requests for information get
posted to the net, they're generally of the form "I'm trying to write a
program which does X, but I can't get Y to work, any ideas?". THIS is where
having source available is invaluable and it doesn't matter *what* the
language is (this is where it's important to be a language junky). What
you get from source, regardless of the language, is the SOLUTION TO PROBLEMS.
You want to do real time animation using shape tables? I'm sure that
someone who has posted games has solved that one. Can't make the RS-232
port work? No problem. Want to get to the nitty-gritty of reading and
writing disk files using assembler? That's been done to. What you get
with source is the "programmers" perspective, you get to see how someone
solved the same problem you're having. Since there is generally more than
one way to solve any problem, and knowing most programmers inability to
leave well enough alone, I'm sure that people would improve on the general
level of code available, as long as they have the source. It's a lot harder
for this to happen if all that is available is the binary, and the author
of the program has to make all the bug fixes. Don't forget folks, these
guys are doing this on their own time and for free (that's why it's called
public domain), they don't have a lot of spare time (I'm sure Moshe or Simon
will nod their heads at that).
So, there it is (I guess it's a little more than two cents worth). Neither
binary or source is better or worse, but they do serve different purposes
(and maybe, even different audiences). Personally, I'm much more interested
in how people did something, than in what the program does (in most cases).
This makes me more interested in having source available, over binary
(if I had to make a choice).
Don Howes HOWESDW@WSUVM1 (BITNET)
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 19:04:10 GMT
From: shebs@utah-cs.arpa (Stanley Shebs)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <655@atari.UUCP> leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) writes:
> The difference is that the graphics operations that used to be performed
>in software will now be performed in hardware, with a resulting increase
>in speed. This thing's _fast_.
Is the blitter going to be invisible if you don't want to use it, so for
instance Sublogic's Flight Simulator won't run 5 times faster (can you
say "Cessna F-16"? :-) :-) )
stan shebs
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 18:54:03 GMT
From: dalcs!silvert@seismo.css.gov (Bill Silvert)
Subject: Clock functions on boot
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I didn't get too much useful response to my query about clocks, so I
fiddled about on my own, and this is what I found out -- these results
were obtained with TDI/Modula-2 Vers. 2 (Have ordered Ver. 3 and am
waiting...) -- they MAY apply to ASM calls and C as well.
When the system is turned on, the date returned by the XBIOS call, which
I think accesses the keyboard clock, is $6000 (6000H or 0x6000,
depending on your language), and the time is $0000. The system date
returned by the GEMDOS call is $0B74, or 85/11/20, which is presumably
what sets the default clock. After booting, both clocks read the same.
If you reboot, the value in the clocks depends on whether you have a
control panel installed, etc. I find that the keyboard clock tends to
come back with $0ABD, which is 85/5/29. Anyway, I find th whole thing
really confusing. Could someone clarify how these clocks are set and
reset, and what affects what? This experimental approach to
documentation is a real pain.
--
Bill Silvert
Marine Ecology Laboratory, Dartmouth, NS, Canada
CDN or BITNET: silvert@cs.dal.cdn -- UUCP: ..!{seismo|utai}!dalcs!silvert
ARPA: silvert%dalcs.uucp@seismo.CSS.GOV -- CSNET:
silvert%cs.dal.cdn@ubc.csnet
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) (03/19/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Thu, 19 Mar 87 23:14:14 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 0442; Thu, 19 Mar 87 22:29:02 FIN
Date: Wed 18 Mar 87 16:36:24 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #133
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 18, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 133
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: 520 in Canada
Re: News From Hannover Messe
Re: Vertical Blank Interrupts
Windows
laser printer
Supervisor mode
Re: Subject: help! (and warning) re crab - (nf)
Re: where are the other groups?
Upgrades
Scientific Wordprocessing ?
Who needs an upgrade?
Re: CTS/RTS Flow Control Problems
Re: Magic Sac
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: Bad monitor, Bad service
B. Dalton bags the ST
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 19:30:52 GMT
From: lorraine@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Peter Lorraine)
Subject: Re: 520 in Canada
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
The object that looks like a 1040 but is marked 520 is a 520stfm. This is,
according to a store in Toronto, a 520 with an integral ssdd drive and rf
modulator. It looks like a very nice object for those considering a 520
(although I would have preferred a double sided drive inside). The store
owner did not describe this as a replacement for the 520. He presumed it
wasn't sold in the USA because of FCC rules. The object is definitely a 520
with 512K ram and an rf-modulator. By the way, could someone tell me a source
for unix windows for the st and what sort of windows the most recent version
supports?
Thank you.
peter lorraine (lorraine@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu)
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 87 02:02:15 GMT
From: labrea!rocky!ali@decwrl.dec.com (Ali Ozer)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <4378@utah-cs.UUCP> shebs@utah-cs.UUCP (Stanley Shebs) writes:
>Is the blitter going to be invisible if you don't want to use it, so for
>instance Sublogic's Flight Simulator won't run 5 times faster (can you
>say "Cessna F-16"? :-) :-) )
I believe that the SubLogic people do everything via the 68000, and ignore
any other hardware features. (For instance, they do not use the blitter on
the Amiga.) This probably makes it easier for them to port it to all
the 68000 machines, and this is probably why the user interface that comes
with the Amiga and Atari versions are similar and does not follow the
machine's own user-interface standards.
(I'm not sure if this is correct at all, but this is what I heard from someone
who was not sure himself...)
Ali Ozer, ali@rocky.stanford.edu
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 16:33:44 GMT
From: imagen!atari!dyer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer)
Subject: Re: Vertical Blank Interrupts
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <741@eneevax.UUCP>, iarocci@eneevax.UUCP (John Iarocci) writes:
> Then, at some point, the system randomly
> writes its own vector right on top of mine. Great!
>
> Well, I set the program to start checking for an empty slot with the second
> entry in the vbi queue next. Now, my handler survives the boot process. Un-
> fortunately, now I can no longer run Degas Elite!
The first vblqueue slot is reserved for the VDI, and the
documentation says so. If an application is hard-coded to use
(say) the 2nd slot, it is doing things wrong, wrong, wrong.
You can always intercept the interrupt itself. You will have to
do your own mutual exclusion (trivial).
--
-Landon Dyer, Atari Corp. {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
The views expressed here do not not
necessarily reflect those of Atari Corp. Segments are for worms.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 87 20:55 EST
From: KIMMEL%ecs.umass.edu@RELAY.CS.NET
To: Info-Atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Windows
X-VMS-To: CSNET%"Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu"
I am writing a desk accessory in Megamax C which puts a window on the
desktop. My question is: How can I tell, when I am not getting a redraw
message, which parts of the window are covered by other windows, when
it's not the top window? I would like to update it, even when it is
covered by other windows.
Thanks in advance.
-Matt Kimmel
KIMMEL@UMAECS.BITNET
KIMMEL%UMAECS.BITNET@WISCVM.ARPA
KIMMEL@ECS.UMASS.EDU
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 15:18:40 GMT
From: mcvax!nikhefh!t68@seismo.css.gov (Jos Vermaseren)
Subject: laser printer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
At Hannover I saw the Atari laser printer.
It was announced as a 8 pages per minute printer.
In a report from the computer show in Vegas I read
something about 30 or more pages per minute. Was the person
who mentioned this mistaken, or is this not the same printer ?
...Alex ??....
T68@NIKHEFH.UUCP
( Jos Vermaseren )
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 15:05:28 GMT
From: mcvax!nikhefh!t68@seismo.css.gov (Jos Vermaseren)
Subject: Supervisor mode
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Does there exist a software way of changing the memoryrange that
is protected by the supervisor mode. None of the litterature that
I have seem mensions anything about it.
( It would be possible to make a much faster file handling system if
some arrays ( like a FAT ) could be protected against users ).
Jos Vermaseren
T68@NIKHEFH.UUCP ( The rest of the path depends on where you are ).
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 10:09:00 GMT
From: mcvax!unido!uklirb!mdoerr@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: Subject: help! (and warning) re crab - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I once experienced similair problems with an auto-booting application
installed on my HD. I could delete the offending files from the AUTO-folder,
i.e. without reformatting, by booting a disk-based RAM-Version of TOS with
the HD-driver installed in the AUTO-folder of that disk. The driver complained
about possible loss of data and that it refuses to work with a RAM-TOS.
Nevertheless all went fine: I could open drive C: and delete the program.
Hope this helps, Michael Doerr. (...!seismo!unido!uklirb!mdoerr)
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 19:10:26 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!ljdickey@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: where are the other groups?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <2441@dalcs.UUCP>, silvert@dalcs.UUCP (Bill Silvert) writes:
> When these groups get going, please post word here so that we all know.
Nothing has arrived here either. Has Turner disappeared?
--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdickey@water.UUCP ljdickey%water@waterloo.CSNET
ljdickey%water%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPA
ljdickey@water.BITNET UUCP: ...!watmath!water!ljdickey
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 15:14:50 GMT
From: mcvax!nikhefh!t68@seismo.css.gov (Jos Vermaseren)
Subject: Upgrades
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Today I saw a 2.5 Megabyte 260ST.
The original 260 was expanded with a board that was put in
without soldering and that contained the extra 2 Mbytes.
I was told there were definitely less than 64 chips ( probably
about 16 --> megabits ) and that the package costs around DM1200
( about $600 ). It comes from a company named Weide Electronics.
( I don't know the address yet ).
I was also told that you can only upgrade if you don't have a
1 Mbyte Atari or you will have to remove one memory bank.
Looks like maybe not everybody will have to buy the MegaST immediately,
although I must admit that the MegaST looks very pretty.
The one at Hannover was equipped with a blitter chip and it was said
that that is the standard.
T68@NIKHEFH.UUCP
( Jos Vermaseren )
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 21:23:06 GMT
From: mcnc!duke!dukempd!hgr@seismo.css.gov (Hugh Robinson)
Subject: Scientific Wordprocessing ?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Toward an interest in buying an Atari for scientific wordprocessing
with laser printer hard copy, what software is available now?
How about Greek fonts, sub/superscripts, equation writers, previewers
for TeX, what-you-see-is what-you-get for equations and figures,
can figures and text be mixed alongside each other, ...?
Thanks for any comments and help.
Hugh Robinson --Physics Dept.,Duke Univ., Durham, NC 27706: (919)-684-8226
hgr@dukempd or ...!mcnc!duke!dukempd!hgr
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 17:45:19 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watdragon!daford@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Who needs an upgrade?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I really don't see the problem with hardware upgrades. Its seems that the
current price trend of UNIX boxes is down, down, down. In BYTE there is an
ad for a portable BSD 4.2 system that has all the software anyone could want;
the price, $5995US (including hard drive). The price is dropping on real
machines, Atari knows this and is trying to catch-up with their 68020 box.
For me, the choice is simple. My next computer will be a real machine, meaning
it will run some flavor of UNIX. I doubt that I will purchase it from
ATARI. Every time I go to create a new folder, I remember that I already have
39 of them and decide that I don't really need it. What surprises await me
in their 68020 box? Sorry Jack, I want to drive a Ferrari too so I'm going
to be very careful with my money and "invest" it in a machine/company I can
count on.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Dan Ford
Daniel A. Ford daford@watdragon.uucp
CS Department daford%watdragon@waterloo.csnet
U. of Waterloo daford%watdragon%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 14:28:53 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watmath!mks!wheels@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: CTS/RTS Flow Control Problems
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <25784@rochester.ARPA>, stuart@rochester.ARPA (Stuart Friedberg)
writes:
> The chips that handle the RS-232C interfaces treat these
> signals as EDGE-TRIGGERED.
I remember reading that, I think in the Abacus book, but then I also heard
that was only in the early versions and had been changed for TOS in ROM.
> The Avatex (and obviously the US Robotics)
> modem asserts CTS as a CONTINUOUS signal until its buffering fills up
> (because the ST is sending characters faster than the modem can ship
> them over the phone line).
Now just a second. As far as I know, none of these modems has buffering.
If the ST is sending at 1200 bps, and the modem is sending to the phone
line at 1200 bps, why should there be? Ditto for 2400 bps.
> It does not flicker or toggle CTS for every
> character. This is a legitimate RS-232C behavior, I believe.
It is the only legitimate RS-232C behaviour.
--
Gerry Wheeler {seismo,decvax,ihnp4}!watmath!mks!wheels
Mortice Kern Systems Inc.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 87 01:33:43 GMT
From: ihnp4!alberta!calgary!stone@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Glen Stone)
Subject: Re: Magic Sac
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I got UW (the Sun window terminal software) to run under
Magic Sac. I yet to get my hands on UW for the ST. Does anyone
know where I can get it?
Glen Stone (!alberta!calgary!stone)
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 21:50:49 GMT
From: ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!fornax!chapman@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (John
Chapman)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
> I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play
> tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk
> drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive.
> (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do
> to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat
> to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage!
>
The Berkeley Microsystems (Beckemeyer) board set and software supports
two drives. Since they use the same interface and scsi controller as
Atari I would guess that their driver would let you have two drives on
your Atari system.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 22:08:23 GMT
From: cbatt!osu-eddie!osupyr!akw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (FarOff MicroDesigns)
Subject: Re: Bad monitor, Bad service
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1987Mar13.141548.24430@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu>
pete@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Peter Santangeli) writes:
> My monitor developped a glitch a little while ago that takes the form
>of the image shifting left to right or right to left at random interval and
>random distances. The distance is usually less thatn 5 mm and the entire image
>usually shifts, though occasionally I also notice horizontal spikes and wave-
>ering.
Peter: take a deep breath and relax. That way you will live longer!
Seriously though, this is not meant as a flame or even a small
spark...just a beacon of possible help. My friend here in the dorm had a
similar problem. He took his SM124 back to the Atari dealer who promptly
gave him a replacement (EXCELLENT return policy here in Columbus), brought
home his new monitor and had similar problems again.
Given, dormitories probably do not measure up to national electrical
standards and given the RF interference we have here (we are sitting in
between three or four TV station transmitters and as many FM radio trans-
mitters) but when he moved his power supplies and disk drive *away* from the
monitor most of the problems cleared up.
Try this and try to plug your system in somewhere else in the house.
Otherwise, there could be a problem with your system.
| Andy Weaver
--+-- akw@osupyr.UUCP
| The Ohio State University
| Proverbs 25.25 1774 College Rd Cols, OH 43210
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 21:51:31 GMT
From: nbires!isis!onecom!wldrdg!tony@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Tony Andrews)
Subject: B. Dalton bags the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
The local B. Dalton bookstore here in Boulder has stopped carrying
ST software. They never did carry very much of a selection, and never
got any STs in the store to demo stuff with. In spite of that, I tried
to encourage them by buying ST software there whenever possible.
With their limited selection and lack of demo machines, they sure
didn't give the ST much of a chance.
Question to Atari: Are there any other major retailers carrying or
planning to carry ST software?
Tony Andrews
Wildridge Consulting, Inc.
Boulder, CO
...!ihnp4!onecom!wldrdg!tony
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) (03/19/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:30:29 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 1470; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:21:43 FIN
Date: Thu 19 Mar 87 11:39:31 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #134
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, March 19, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 134
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
krabat2 help
Re: Interesting
B. Dalton & ST Software
re: ST TeX
Re: CTS/RTS Flow Control Problems
Keyboard reading
C compiler benchmarks
Re: News From Hannover Messe
Re: krabat2 help
a few questions/whatever
Re: Scientific word processing on Atari - (nf)
Re: Supervisor mode
RE: RE: Flaming Atari....
Re: Moving across the ocean
ST Basic problems - RND, Strings
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 12 Mar 87 09:58:02 GMT
From: mcvax!cernvax!jmg@seismo.css.gov (jmg)
Subject: krabat2 help
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
The english-version krabat2 uuencoded file got here only with a bit
missing. From begin to end it is 692 lines, but line 264 is short (it may
be due to a missing chunk: it is NOT ending with lots of blanks).
I list below my lines 263-265, in the hope that someone still has the
uuencoded file and can tell me what I am missing. This would appear
easier than getting the whole encoded file again from someone.
If you can help, thanks.
M\0G^, /_\TM%-P/_8[B@( S\#_P!@"@0 S\#\V,!"@8 S\#\T,!"@@ S
M\#\R,!"@H S\#\3#0"@P S\#^[ 0"@X S\#]8 @"@ $
M\#\H,!"@0 $S\#]0" JE^S\& 0"@@ $C\#\C!P"@P (=J8 9X)V=F9)B.Q T
------------------------------
Date: 12 Mar 87 16:49:59 GMT
From: mcvax!cernvax!jmg@seismo.css.gov (jmg)
Subject: Re: Interesting
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <621@atari.UUCP> leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) writes:
> The HitchHiker's Guide to the BIOS, which is part of the Developer's
>Kit. You buy the Developer's Kit from us. Contact Cindy Clavern at
>Atari.
I don't want the bl--dy developers kit. I want proper technical
documentation from Atari.
Quote from the editorial of a UK computing journal (serious):-
Another worrying sign is a survey of 2000 xxxx users carried out by
Marplan for xxxx, which showed that while they were more satisfied
with their suppliers in 1986 than in the previous year, they are
still far from happy with the quality of its documentation.
Documentation is not glamorous, nor is it a big moneyspinner for
manufacturers. But to the user it is all-important.
If suppliers want to sell more machines to a user base that has eaten
its fill of glamour and jargon, they will have to start to concentrate
on improving services like documentation and maintenance.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 87 10:29:10 est
From: Eric Terrell <terrell@ohio-state.ARPA>
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
Subject: B. Dalton & ST Software
The same thing happened in a B. Dalton in Columbus, OH. Here the store
had a fairly good selection, but it vanished recently. No demo machines.
Terrell
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 87 22:23:19 MEZ
To: info-atari16@su-score.ARPA
From: UNI215%DBNRHRZ1.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: re: ST TeX
I dont remember who asked (I think it was in Digest 95). The
answer is NO. I asked Tools here in Bonn: there is today no dealer
in the US dealing the ST-TeX. If there's interest, I'll ask them
for further information (and maybe a demo) and mail it.
Heribert (Bonn, W-Germany) UNI215@DBNRHRZ1 BITNET
BTW Can anybody tell me what is comp.sources.atari.st, and if it is
what I think, how I can access it from Bitnet?
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 87 13:50:52 GMT
From: stuart@CS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Stuart Friedberg)
Subject: Re: CTS/RTS Flow Control Problems
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <228@mks.UUCP>, wheels@mks.UUCP writes:
> In article <25784@rochester.ARPA>, I write:
> > The chips that handle the RS-232C interfaces treat these
> > signals as EDGE-TRIGGERED.
>
> I remember reading that, I think in the Abacus book, but then I also heard
> that was only in the early versions and had been changed for TOS in ROM.
Your source misinformed you. I have a 1040STf with TOS in ROM. It
exhibits exactly the behavior I described. The interface chip is STILL
a MC68901, which is STILL edge-triggered. You do have your choice of
positive or negative transitions, which is why I said that I thought
the problem was fixable with fancier software (in a nutshell look for
the absence of the negative transition, and keep transmitting).
It may well be that the Avatex and the UR Robotics do not have
significant buffering (they have at least one character of buffering
of course, since the register from which they shift out bits on the
the telephone line is obviously not the register in which they store
the latest character from the ST). That is a quibble, because the
behavior I described with the sustained CTS signal is not dependent
of modem buffer length, only on the absence of overrun from the host.
Let's not quibble.
Stu Friedberg
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 87 12:31:43 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!its63b!hwcs!neil@seismo.css.gov (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: Keyboard reading
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
My first piece of text on the net is a cry for help.
Problem: How can you test the status of a particular key on the keyboard?
Simple question you would think but I can't do it. (Does that make me a moron?)
The GEMDOS & BIOS calls concerning keyboard input either wait until a key is
pressed or give you a key if there is one in the buffer now. None as far as I
can make out request info on specific keys (Mouse & Joystick buttons are one
exception).
I've got a copy of "The Anatomy of the Atari ST", which I think is the UK
version of the Abacus book in the US.
In this book it states that the 6301 keyboard processor's normal action is to
announce each keypress to the operating system (presumably on an interrupt
basis). When the key is pressed the key number is sent (1 - 117) and when it
is released it is sent again with the top bit set.
The book is unclear about where this information appears.
I have an idea to use a set of flag bits to show the status of some keys. These
flags would be updated by an interrupt routine reflecting the status of the top
bit if the correct keycode arrived.
Please, can anyone help me? _____
Thanks in advance. ! / ! <- Cut here
____ !/ O
/\ / ! /!\
---/ \ /--- ! / \
____/ \/ Neil Forsyth _!_
--
Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs
Heriot-Watt University ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk
Dept of C.S. UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 87 23:08:40 GMT
From: sandra@UTAH-CS.ARPA (Sandra J Loosemore)
Subject: C compiler benchmarks
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
The latest batch of Dhrystone benchmarks have just been posted to comp.misc,
and here are some numbers that may be of interest to Atari users. These are
measured in mythical "Dhrystone/second" units, the two numbers for each
compiler being without register variable declarations, and with 'em:
Lattice 3.03.01 446, 450
Megamax 1.0 1063, 1136
And, just ran this one myself:
Alcyon 4.14 877, 892
On a related topic, a week or two ago I ran a couple of crude tests to
compare the speed of the Alcyon IEEE floating point math library routines
with the FFP math library, and the IEEE library came out about *10 times*
faster. Basic arithmetic operations seem to be about the same speed in
both formats, except the IEEE divide is noticibly faster than the FFP
divide. The Dhrystone program does not do any floating point, so if
anybody is really interested in seriously comparing floating point speeds
you'll have to come up with your own benchmark program.
-Sandra Loosemore (sandra@cs.utah.edu)
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 87 20:44:07 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!ljdickey@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> > What is a "blitter", and what difference will I notice if I get one?
> A blitter is a hardware co-processor dedicated to graphics.
> > What bugs will be killed by new ROMS?
> ... the underscore bug in the file selector's been fixed ...
I vote for:
*One* new ROM, that will correct the current list of known problems,
and which will support the blitter, as an option.
Everyone should get the new ROM. Upgrade to blitter should be one chip
add on. The fact that the ROM is biltter ready should encourage sales
of blitter. Keep inventory list short. Two different ROM upgrades is
one too many.
--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdickey@water.UUCP ljdickey%water@waterloo.CSNET
ljdickey%water%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPA
ljdickey@water.BITNET UUCP: ...!watmath!water!ljdickey
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 87 21:38:29 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!ljdickey@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: krabat2 help
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <451@cernvax.UUCP>, jmg@cernvax.UUCP (jmg) writes:
> The english-version krabat2 uuencoded file got here ... with [something]
> missing.
> I list below my lines 263-265, in the hope that someone still has the
> uuencoded file and can tell me what I am missing.
> M\0G^, /_\TM%-P/_8[B@( S\#_P!@"@0 S\#\V,!"@8 S\#\T,!"@@ S
> M\#\R,!"@H S\#\3#0"@P S\#^[ 0"@X S\#]8 @"@ $
> M\#\H,!"@0 $S\#]0" JE^S\& 0"@@ $C\#\C!P"@P (=J8 9X)V=F9)B.Q T
With the thought in mind that if one user did not get it, others may have
missed it too, here are the three lines from my copy of the file.
================
M\0G^, /_\TM%-P/_8[B@( S\#_P!@"@0 S\#\V,!"@8 S\#\T,!"@@ S
M\#\R,!"@H S\#\3#0"@P S\#^[ 0"@X S\#]8 @"@ $S\#_F 0"@( $S
M\#\H,!"@0 $S\#]0" JE^S\& 0"@@ $C\#\C!P"@P (=J8 9X)V=F9)B.Q T
================
--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdickey@water.UUCP ljdickey%water@waterloo.CSNET
ljdickey%water%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPA
ljdickey@water.BITNET UUCP: ...!watmath!water!ljdickey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 87 23:54:04 PST
From: PSIMON%PPC.MFENET@nmfecc.arpa
To: INFO-ATARI16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Subject: a few questions/whatever
A few questions/whatever:
Alex Leavens, what is the official upgrade policy for 1st Word, Neochrome,
and (am I dreaming) ST Basic?
I am very interested in the image processing program described by Patrick
van Kleef (attempts to reach you personally via e-mail have failed, Patrick).
Is this program available here in the states? If not, could I get it from you,
Patrick? Snail-mail would be necessary for such a beast.
Is usenet case sensitive? From some of the failed mail messages I have
accumulated, it appears that addresses of the mail I send out are getting
capitalized, perhaps right here at home.
Richard Sansom, I think NAG is a good idea. I was unable to respond to
you directly.
Thanks,
--Patrick Simon PSIMON%PPC.MFENET@NMFECC.ARPA or Q3971@PUCC.BITNET
Might be of interest:
According to Dick Biow (ST Applications(tm), March 1987), "The United
States Navy has announced that it will not buy copy-protected programs
from anybody, ever, regardless of quality or utility."
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 87 18:16:00 GMT
From: mcvax!unido!tub!csch@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: Scientific word processing on Atari - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
1. There is a VERY GOOD technical ,,writer`` for the ST:
SIGNUM ...
2. TEX has been ported TWICE and there are PREVIEWERs ...
Both products (TEX & SIGNUM) are sold by GERMAN companies.
If you`re interested, I`ll send the addresses ...
Rgds.
Clemens
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact via:
csch@tub.uucp
from the US: ...!pyramid!tub!csch
from Europe: ...!unido!tub!csch
Bitnet: csch@db0tui6 = tub.bitnet
tel.: +49-30-393-3574
+49-30-332-4015
tlx.: (west-germany) + 186672 rdt d
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 00:25:30 GMT
From: imagen!atari!dyer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer)
Subject: Re: Supervisor mode
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> Does there exist a software way of changing the memory range that
> is protected by the supervisor mode.
No.
--
-Landon Dyer, Atari Corp. {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
The views expressed here do not not
necessarily reflect those of Atari Corp. Segments are for worms.
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 12:05:48 GMT
From: CZHRZU1A.BITNET!K538915@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: RE: RE: Flaming Atari....
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Alex, I don't think I was being unfair to Atari (I suppose you didn't see
the original article which I wrote)....I'm pretty sure that you'll aggree
that the 68020 will not be coming out this year unless Atari puts a BIG
effort behind it. In the original article my major complaint was that Atari
is on the brink of loosing a piece of market that it could of had (hi end
68'000 market) and which will now be taken by other machines (Amiga 2000,
Mac II).
BTW the '_' bug is VERY serious, people like you and me just
shrug their shoulders when they stumble on a bug like that and just don't
use underscores in paths anymore, but I've seen and heard from a number
of casual users which got a nasty shock from this bug (ever lost a 10 page
doc just thru pressing '_'?). Anyway I wish to thank you, Neil and Landon
for reading this group and taking the trouble to answer so many letters.
Simon
K538915@CZHRZU1A.BITNET
For AMIGA fans:
I did not intend to start another 'my machine is better than yours'
battle, I just wanted to point out that the Atari User Interface is
generally simpler to use than the Amiga's (and the Mac's) and would
be better for use in an office (if there were less bugs).
Example: just the possibility that you can insert a disk full of
files, but without Icon definitions and get an empty
window (for the simple minded under us = empty disk),
would probably cause havoc in an normal office
environment.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 87 14:35:54 SET
To: INFO-ATARI16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
From: ESC1457%ESOC.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: Re: Moving across the ocean
Don Petcher asked if it was possible to use a computer made for 220V 50Hz
in the USA , it shouldn't give you too much trouble as long as mine is
suppose to be a 110V 60 Hz and work fine in Europe . The only thing you have
to do is to hook it up to a 110V to 220V transformer, the AC frequency
increase is not important as long as you are using a black and white monitor,
with an external synchro, but if you want to connect it to a TV or a color
monitor you might experience some troubles (if the synchro reference is taken
from the main (110V)). With an 520 1Meg, 2 SF314, 1 SM 124, 1 Panasonic KXP
1091, I use one 500 Watt transformer, wich is more than enough (add the watt
ratings of all your stuff times 1.2 (safety coefficient) to get the power of
the transformer you'll need.
tune it to maximum of smoke.
J.P. L. Coenen NM9L-ON1KCN.MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) (03/19/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
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Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:52:25 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 1554; Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:40:50 FIN
Date: Thu 19 Mar 87 11:40:51 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #135
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, March 19, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 135
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Ratfor (!)
68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
Re: News From Hannover Messe
Re: laser printer
NAG Poll No. 2
Re: B. Dalton bags the ST
Help! vro_cpyfm,vrt_cpyfm
problems with comp.binaries.atari.st
Re: where are the other groups?
Re: where are the other groups?
Line A Sprite Routines
Re: Magic Sac
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: News From Hannover Messe
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 87 07:32:11 GMT
From: linus!gatech!mcnc!ravi@husc6.harvard.edu (Ravi Subrahmanyan)
Subject: Ratfor (!)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
[]
Just in case someone's interested.. I have a version of Ratfor
for the ST; it's pretty complete, and works fine (except for I/O in
pipes). Any fortran users out there?? 8^)
-ravi
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 16:20:09 GMT
From: appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu (Marc L. Appelbaum)
Subject: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Well, I went to the Eastern Pa. ATARI Expo and spoke to Mark Jensen,
Tech Support specialist for ATARI Corp. When I asked him about the
68020 box I couldn't get any answers. Also at his Question Mark
seminar, someone else asked a question about the box. Mark's only
response yes <smile>.
I understand that the box is official unannouced, so I'm not mad,
just a little disappointed.
Now for a suggestion.
Mark did say that the box would only use the ST's I/O ports. Well why
not put a few RS-232 ports on the box. This would allow you to hook
your 8-bit up to your ST as a terminal. It could also be used in a
University Microlab, for running a BBS and allowing console logins.
Another use would be in an office situtation. This way many people
can access the same files, share printers, etc. It seems that this is
VERY possible under System V UNIX.
At the Desktop Publishing seminar we saw output from ATARI's
laserprinter. The quality of the output was exaclty the same (if not
better) than that of the Apple Laserwriter. The Laserprinter can
print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X
300, you'll need about 4 megs. This is because the LaserPrinter has
no memory of it's own. It uses the ST to do all the work. When we
asked the ATARI rep. at the seminar (I forget his name), about memory
upgrades he said ATARI does CONDONE upgrades from 3rd party companies.
I saw a BLITTER in action!
Atari was running two demos of birds flying across the screen. One
was on a normal 1040, the other was using a 1040 with a blitter. The
one with the blitter was MUCH faster.
--
Marc L. Appelbaum "If life is a game of chess
Arpa:appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu and you and I are pawns
Uucp:rutgers!topaz!appelbau what happens when we get to
GEnie: M.APPELBAUM the other side of the board?"
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 16:06:10 GMT
From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <4378@utah-cs.UUCP> shebs@utah-cs.UUCP (Stanley Shebs) writes:
>Is the blitter going to be invisible if you don't want to use it, so for
>instance Sublogic's Flight Simulator won't run 5 times faster (can you
>say "Cessna F-16"? :-) :-) )
Unless I'm mistaken, Bruce Artwick & Co. (SubLogic) wrote all of their own
graphics routines for the ST version of Flight Simulator II, therefore
there should be no "Cessna F-16" performance from a blittered ST.
-Rich
--
//////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
/// Richard E. Sansom TRW Electronics & Defense Sector \\\
\\\ {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom Redondo Beach, CA ///
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 16:12:20 GMT
From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom)
Subject: Re: laser printer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <261@nikhefh.UUCP> t68@nikhefh.UUCP (Jos Vermaseren) writes:
>At Hannover I saw the Atari laser printer.
>It was announced as a 8 pages per minute printer.
>In a report from the computer show in Vegas I read
>something about 30 or more pages per minute...
Either you are mistaken (about the 30 ppm) or Atari is about to wrap up the
desktop publishing market! Seriously, I think 8 ppm is closer to the mark
since our site's Talaris can only print 24 ppm.
-Rich
--
//////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
/// Richard E. Sansom TRW Electronics & Defense Sector \\\
\\\ {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom Redondo Beach, CA ///
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 16:47:16 GMT
From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom)
Subject: NAG Poll No. 2
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Sorry, this took so long to post, but I've been a bit busy lately.
Here's the second NAG poll. I'll collect the responses and post the
results both to the net and (by mail) to Atari (I'll try and get this as
far up the Atari corporate ladder as I can - if any of you out there have
any "contacts" in Atari's HQ, let me know).
-Rich
p.s. - I've included an RFC regarding this group's name. If you have any
suggestions, please give them.
-- cut here, extract file nagpoll2 --
Net Atari Group (NAG) Poll No. 2 - 3/16/87
Directions: read each question, fill in the "___"s with your
answers. For those questions which require more descriptive
answers, insert as many lines as you need on the line immediately
following the question.
Name (optional):
Date received:
Date sent:
#0 New name suggestion for this group (optional): __________
#1 Do you presently own an Atari computer system? ___
#2 If you answered "yes" to question #1, give a brief description of your
system:
#3 Do you plan to purchase any Atari products this year? ___
#4 If you answered "yes" to question #3, give a list of the products you
plan to buy:
#5 If you answered "no" to question #3, list the reasons which prompted
you to come to this decision:
#6 Do you feel Atari is providing adequate support for existing ST owners? ___
#7 Give a brief explanation of your answer to #6 (optional):
#8 Do you feel Atari is moving in the right direction with its new products?
(e.g., the Mega ST, the Atari PC, the 68020 "UNIX" box, etc.): ___
#9 Give a brief explanation of your answer to #8 (optional):
#10 If you could say anything to Atari, what would it be? (optional):
-- cut here --
--
//////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
/// Richard E. Sansom TRW Electronics & Defense Sector \\\
\\\ {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom Redondo Beach, CA ///
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 19:38:16 GMT
From: pyramid!amdahl!drivax!holloway@hplabs.hp.com (Bruce Holloway)
Subject: Re: B. Dalton bags the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <122@wldrdg.UUCP> tony@wldrdg.UUCP (Tony Andrews) writes:
>The local B. Dalton bookstore here in Boulder has stopped carrying
>ST software.
Our local B. Dalton's, and Waldenbooks, never carried ST software, and very
little Amiga software, either.
Last year, our local "Toys 'R' Us" started carrying ST hard- and software,
but has never restocked their software selection. As each title sells out,
they use the space for more Commodore 64 programs. They're down to just two
programs - King's Quest II and Degas.
It's too bad - I bought software there before - they're a lot closer than
the nearest Atari dealer in Los Gatos.
- Bruce
--
Bruce Holloway - Relapsed Newsaholic
{seismo,hplabs,sun,ihnp4}!amdahl!drivax!holloway
Put the power of RANDOM NUMBERS to work FOR YOU!
------------------------------
Mail-From: G.ABRAMS created at 16-Mar-87 17:08:59
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 87 09:30 EDT
From: <JANKOWSJ%UNION.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
Subject: Help! vro_cpyfm,vrt_cpyfm
To: info-atari-request@su-score.arpa
X-Original-To: info-atari-request@su-score.arpa, JANKOWSJ
ReSent-Date: Mon 16 Mar 87 17:08:59-PST
ReSent-From: Info-Atari Moderator <G.ABRAMS@Score.Stanford.EDU>
ReSent-To: info-atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU
Dear G.E.M. Hackers,
Is there any-hacker in this universe that can assist me in
finding information about working with the G.E.M. functions
vro_cpyfm(handle,copy_logic,xy_array,psource_mfdb,pdest_mfdb);
vrt_cpyfm(handle,writing_mode,xy_array,psource_mfdb,pdest,col);
These two functions are used primarily to copy memory from
screen device to ram-memory of visa-versa. However, I would
like to be able to copy from memory to memory or visa-versa.
Can this be accomplished with these functions or am I living in
a fantasy.
If there is some documentation on these functions that are
a little more in-depth than Digital's "GEM PROGRAMMERS GUIDE
VOL. II" of "PROGRAMMER'S GUIDE TO GEM" please drop me a few
bytes.
Sincerely,
C.R.T.
JANKOWSJ@UNION.BITNET
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 17:59:46 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: problems with comp.binaries.atari.st
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I have gotten a lot of mail form people asking where did
comp.binaries.atari.st go so i did some checking and it turns out
that the group was never created ( heaven knows what happened to the
postings). Anywho i am working with the net-powers-that-be to see if
this is a bug in news v2.11 or did i screw up. Please be patient and
we will try to sort this out as quickly as we can.
--
---------------
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 17:48:27 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: where are the other groups?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <853@water.UUCP>, ljdickey@water.UUCP says:
+---------------------------------------------------------
+
+ In article <2441@dalcs.UUCP>, silvert@dalcs.UUCP (Bill Silvert) writes:
++ When these groups get going, please post word here so that we all know.
+
+ Nothing has arrived here either. Has Turner disappeared?
+
+ --
+---------------------------------------------------------
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated...
I posted SpaceWars V3.0 to comp.binaries.atari.st, if anyone
receives it could they please send me email
--
---------------
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 13:10:34 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: where are the other groups?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <2441@dalcs.UUCP>, silvert@dalcs.UUCP (Bill Silvert) says:
+---------------------------------------------------------
+
+ When these groups get going, please post word here so that we all know.
+ I just read 159 news items without a single program arriving, and the
+ new news groups don't exist here -- I'm worried that we may end up
+ missing a bunch of goodies. A status report would be welcome!
+---------------------------------------------------------
I just posted SpaceWars V3.0 to comp.binaries.atari.st, but being new
to this i'm not sure that everything worked properly. If anyone
receives the posting could they send me email.
thanks
--
---------------
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 87 21:05:23 est
From: Eric Terrell <terrell@ohio-state.ARPA>
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
Subject: Line A Sprite Routines
I wonder if anyone could send me source code involving calls to the
draw sprite and undraw sprite line a routines?
I'm having trouble (big time) figuring them out from the Abacus book!
I would be delighted to look at sources in any language (C, Pascal,
Assembly, etc).
Thanks in advance,
Terrell (terrell@ohio-state)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 14:19:12 GMT
From: engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst)
Subject: Re: Magic Sac
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Could someone who has the Magic Sac please post a list of files that they
know work or do not work? I am very interested in getting the Sac, but I
need to know more about how compatible it is. If it isn't too much trouble,
could someone at least post the README files that come with the Sac (someone
promised to do this a while ago but never did)? Also, has anyone used the
Sac with a color monitor? Is it readable in color? Does anyone know of a
cheap source of ROMS (I heard a rumor about some place in Syracuse, New York
having them for $25 but I don't know any specifics)? I would be eternally
grateful for any information about the Sac as it works currently. Thanks .
Adam Engst
engst@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu
pv9y@cornell.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 00:37:55 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>>> I dove into a Atari hard drive last night and started with my usual play
>>> tactics. It seems that the Adaptek controller will support 2 hard disk
>>> drives. The current software does not want to see the second drive.
>>> (No, I didn't really expect it to.) (:>) Is there a patch that I can do
>>> to the handler to enable the second drive? Neil?? Alex?? It would be neat
>>> to add a second drive and power supply and have more storage!
>>>
>> If you've got a production drive, I think there's a switch on the
>> Atari controller board that allows you to set what logical unit the
>> drive is. Just change that, and...
>
> Sorry, Alex --- that doesn't help. ->ooof!<- [I just kicked his shins:]
>
> The Adaptec controller will indeed support more than one drive.
> The current AHDI.PRG hard disk driver does not support more than
> one drive per controller. And naturally, Atari does not
> encourage or condone such modifications to the hardware....
>
Yep, I goofed. What I was trying to say is that you can certainly use
more than one SH204 on your system, and that you have to do a little bit
of switch flipping to do so.
Ow! My shin's still hurting from the _last_ time you kicked me...
<grin>
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 00:58:08 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: News From Hannover Messe
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <4378@utah-cs.UUCP>, shebs@utah-cs.UUCP (Stanley Shebs) says:
>
> Is the blitter going to be invisible if you don't want to use it, so for
> instance Sublogic's Flight Simulator won't run 5 times faster (can you
> say "Cessna F-16"? :-) :-) )
Yes, there will be a an easy way to turn it off if the software that you're
running goes a little too fast with it on... <grin>
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/22/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Mon, 23 Mar 87 06:00:37 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 6447; Mon, 23 Mar 87 05:30:40 FIN
Date: Sun 22 Mar 87 12:57:38 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #136
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Sunday, March 22, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 136
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: laser printer
Re: Adding another Hard Drive?? (and auto-booting)
Re: Request for propaganda
Re: Caution with S&S Wholesalers of Miami Beach
Extension boards for the new Mega Ataris
Re: 520 in Canada
Re: a few questions/whatever
Port Microsoft-C to Atari ST - (nf)
Re: a 68010 for your st?
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: Working 4 meg ST
Re: A Plea for SCSI
Re: twister.prg ???
Re: 520 in Canada
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 00:59:42 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: laser printer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <261@nikhefh.UUCP>, t68@nikhefh.UUCP (Jos Vermaseren) says:
>
> At Hannover I saw the Atari laser printer.
> It was announced as a 8 pages per minute printer.
> In a report from the computer show in Vegas I read
> something about 30 or more pages per minute. Was the person
> who mentioned this mistaken, or is this not the same printer ?
> ...Alex ??....
The 8 pages a minute figure is correct. I've never even _heard_ of a laser
printer that'll do 30 pages a minute...
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 17:26:02 GMT
From: tektronix!sequent!mntgfx!dclemans@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Dave Clemans)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive?? (and auto-booting)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
The latest hard disk driver from Supra (version 2.61) fully supports
both multiple physical drives and will let you write a boot sector
out to the drive (to drive 0, if you have multiple drives). This
will even let you run your system without floppies if you desire.
What they do is to put a file "supboot.sys" (marked hidden so that it
doesn't show up in normal directory listings) onto the root of drive C.
Supboot.sys is the full driver; the simple driver in the boot sector
just knows how to load that file.
To get around the previously mentioned problems with booting directly
from a hard disk (i.e., what to do if there are broken auto folder
programs or broken desk accessories, etc.) the Supra boot sector
checks for the control, shift and alternate keys to see if they all
are down; if so, it doesn't try to boot from the hard disk, which
lets you try to fix the situation using floppies.
dgc
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 00:51:18 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Request for propaganda
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <395@laurel.wiley.UUCP>, bob@wiley.UUCP (Bob Amstadt) says:
> 1. Has Atari upgraded their OS to include some form
> of multitasking? If not does someone else supply a multitasking
> OS? What about MINIX?
No, our OS is not multi-tasking. There are a couple of multi-
tasking OS's available:
MT-Cshell, from Beckemeyer Development tools
OS-9 from MicroWare
> 2. Who retails the ST line in the Redondo Beach (LA) area?
Don't know, sorry.
> 3. Who supplies what hard disks for the ST?
Atari makes the SH204, a 20 meg hard disc.
Supra makes a couple of hard discs for the ST.
> 4. Does X Windows run on the ST?
Don't think so--I haven't heard of anyone porting this
over.
> 5. Does GNU emacs or a micro emacs run on the ST?
There are a couple of good PD MicroEMACS available.
I use MicroEmacs 3.7i, which I find is a good tool.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 02:50:23 GMT
From: hao!noao!mcdsun!nud!df@hplabs.hp.com (Dale Farnsworth, NO7K)
Subject: Re: Caution with S&S Wholesalers of Miami Beach
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <8703121649.AA23788@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> kdale@BBNCC-EUR.ARPA (Keith
Dale) writes:
>I ordered a PC system from S & S Wholesalers, Inc. of Miami Beach, FL on Jan
>28, 1987.
> ...
>I was told that it shipped on Wednesday, 28 Jan, the same day that I ordered
>it, but the postage indicateds that it was shipped Monday, 9 Feb. I still have
>not received the monitor.
I have only dealt with S & S Wholesalers once, but I must say that I was
quite satisfied with their response. I ordered a SC1224 color monitor,
paid by personal check, which they said they would hold for 2 weeks.
They shipped the monitor 14 days after they received my order and they
paid for all the postage.
I was very pleased.
-Dale
--
seismo!noao!mcdsun!nud!df 602/438-5739 ihnp4!mot!nud!df
------------------------------
Date: 17 MAR 87 10:09-N
From: ZRFA1%DS0RUS51.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
To: INFO-ATARI16 @ SU-SCORE.ARPA
Subject:Extension boards for the new Mega Ataris
In an interview with a german magazine Shiraz Shivij said
that Atari has finished the development of a board with the
68881 on it. Does somebody (Neil) know when this board will
be available, and which languages are going to support it.
On the hannover fair i asked somebody of Prospero, an english
company which has a good fortran compiler for the Atari. They
didn't even know, that Atari has developed that board.
In german Atari advertisements the board is allready cited.
In the same interview Shiraz Shivij said that they have a
LAN-board for lokal area networking in a Vax environement.
Does somebody know wether TCP/IP, Decnet or something else
is used.
It would also be nice to be able to combine the to boards in
one machine. Are there any more boards planned?
Ulrich Lang (ZRFA1@DS0RUS1I)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 17:53:35 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!dcl-cs!bath63!pes@seismo.css.gov (Paul Smee)
Subject: Re: 520 in Canada
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Sounds like the thingie (popular over here) which a lot of the dealers sell
as a '520ST+' -- as far as I know, it's a standard Atari 520ST which they've
then brought up to 1 Meg using a third party upgrade. They seem to be very
popular, particularly if you need a modulator and want a Meg. (I don't know
if 1040's with modulators exist elsewhere in the world, but they don't seem
to in the UK.
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 01:28:25 GMT
From: mcvax!botter!ark!kleef@seismo.css.gov (Patrick van Kleef)
Subject: Re: a few questions/whatever
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <870315235404.01d@nmfecc.arpa> PSIMON%PPC.MFENET@NMFECC.ARPA writes:
>A few questions/whatever:
>
> I am very interested in the image processing program described by Patrick
>van Kleef (attempts to reach you personally via e-mail have failed, Patrick).
>Is this program available here in the states? If not, could I get it from you,
>Patrick? Snail-mail would be necessary for such a beast.
>
>Thanks,
>--Patrick Simon PSIMON%PPC.MFENET@NMFECC.ARPA or Q3971@PUCC.BITNET
>
AIM has been sent to the Atarinet Fileserver in Houston.
There you may download it with 7 images that are used in
a demo. The program and the
images + the demo-control file may be downloaded from there.
To get to the fileserver from BITNET, use address
UH-INFO@UHUPVM1 and type ATARINET INDEX or ATARINET NEWS
From usenet, send a message to UACE0@UHUPVM1 and ask for
the AIM-set. Mike will send it to you then. (When he
returns from Holiday).
I CANNOT snailmail (call it a mental disability :) to
y'all. Alex L. at Atari is the only exception I make ;)
BTW, the files may show up on other servers too, as it
is one h*ll of a program! (Credit to Technical University
of Delft, The Netherlands)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 16:18:00 GMT
From: mcvax!unido!qtecmuc!ger@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Port Microsoft-C to Atari ST - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hi there,
I need some information about the Atari ST, since I don't have one, but
have to do a port of a C-Program, written on an IBM-PC with
Microsoft-C 4.0, to the ST. The program consists of 12 (may be more) C-moduls,
which are seperatly compiled and then linked together on the PC.
-Which C-compiler would you recommend, concerning compatibility with
the MS-compiler.
-Are there any libraries for the RS-232 port, since there seem to be some
problems with the hardware handshake. (I have to use 9600 bps)
-How can I control text-colors and attributes (Highlighted or inverted)
on the ST (ESC-sequences preferred).
Thank you in advance
Gerhard Pehland
Quantec Tonstudiotechnik, Munich W-Germany
mcvax!unido!qtecmuc!ger
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 00:30:41 GMT
From: dayton!viper!john@rutgers.rutgers.edu (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: a 68010 for your st?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <574@tc-fletch.tc.fluke.COM> fletch@tc.fluke.COM (Fletcher Holmquist)
writes:
>
>When I have the ability to make cartridges, I plan on making a cartridge to
>allow TOS to run on the 68010. The vector base register will allow all
>exceptions to be intercepted, even if apps redefine the vectors.
>
Good luck. I'm looking forward to hearing more about your plans for this..
>....... I am disappointed that the code in ROM was not written in a way to
>be compatible with the 68010 chip. Apparenty the Amiga OS was.
>
I've been discussing this with a small group of Amiga users. They are having
the same problems upgrading to 68010's as we are. Aparently there
is either an alternate "kick-start" disk for use with 68010 Amigas and/or
there are some people experimenting with a method of detecting the different
CPU's and booting the correct Amiga os based on what's in the machine.
Either way, it means they have two different operating systems for the
different cpus. This is a major problem all users wanting to upgrade are
going to have to face regardless of the machine (ST or Amiga) they're using.
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 01:39:49 GMT
From: dayton!viper!john@rutgers.rutgers.edu (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <659@atari.UUCP> dyer@atari.UUCP (Landon Dyer) writes:
>
>The Adaptec controller will indeed support more than one drive.
>The current AHDI.PRG hard disk driver does not support more than
>one drive per controller. And naturally, Atari does not
>encourage or condone such modifications to the hardware....
>
Well, I suppose that's suppost to be helpful??
People are asking serious questions about how to expand their storage
and all you can say is "Atari doesn't encourage it...."?
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 02:36:51 GMT
From: dayton!viper!john@rutgers.rutgers.edu (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Working 4 meg ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <4370@utah-cs.UUCP> atwell@utah-cs.UUCP (Bart L. Atwell) writes:
>
>I just talked to a guy from tech-specialties (one of the companies
>who sells expandable memory upgrade boards) who said that they had
>a working upgrade to 4 megabytes running. I can post their address
>and phone if anybody is interested (I left it at home).
>
If it's an expansion for the 1040, then by all means, POST IT!!
(chanting in background...four-meg, four-meg, four-meg, four-meg, four-meg...)
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 00:50:04 GMT
From: dayton!viper!john@rutgers.rutgers.edu (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: A Plea for SCSI
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I also would like to put in my 3 cents worth on the subject....
I was also very disapointed when, after waiting for the "new Atari ST
machines with a built-in hard disk interface" (what was originaly
quoted as being in the new machines), I hear storys about how you have
to get a "special" drive(s) to use with the ST. I bought my ST, got
a Supra hard disk and am in general pleased, -but-, there is -NO-
reason I can think of for the ST's (or especially the new TT's) to
continue to ignore a well established standard in favor of a poorly
documented DMA port that nothing in the known universe (except ST
peripherals) can use.
The SCSI standard would give expanded capabilities at reduced cost
(remember someone saying something about "Power without the price!"??).
The current crop of ST hard disks, while a great acomplisment by the
people who are dealing with slower drives to allow for the necessary
protocol translations, are inferior to the standard run-of-the-mill
SCSI drives available in larger capacities at -much- lower cost...
If you're going to provide "standard printer ports" and "standard
RS-232 ports" then for gods sake, -why- not support a well established
DMA/hard-disk standard???
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 01:20:16 GMT
From: dayton!viper!john@rutgers.rutgers.edu (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: twister.prg ???
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <8703102314.AA10864@ncsc.ARPA> moore@NCSC.ARPA (Moore) writes:
>
>Does TWISTER.PRG, published in this quarter's STart, work? [Background: the
>program formats floppies such that each track has its sector numbers offset
>by two from the previous track, so that double reads of a single track caused
>by seek and settle times are eliminated]. It sure sounds like it should work,
>but I don't notice any difference at all!
>
Jim, from my understanding, the advantages from Twister formatted disks
comes when copying large files. When you copy many smaller files, the
head must interrupt it's Twister enhanced read/write, go to the track
and sector where the directory is held, do some processing, and then
move back to the place where it was in the Twister sequence. This
destroys the timing. Also if you have lots of smaller files spread
across several tracks/sectors where there are gaps, thi will also'
cause timing problems.
To best see the difference copy a large** file to a twister disk and
another disk. Then try reading/copying that file with any program
that can copy/read the file at a -very- high rate. The twister disk
will read so fast you won't beleive it...
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 05:53:08 GMT
From:
ihnp4!alberta!mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watrose!jafischer@ucbvax.Berkeley
.EDU
Subject: Re: 520 in Canada
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> A 1040 ST Package *marked* 520 ST on the exterior.
> It came with a single sided internal drive and monitor.
This is the packaging that all 520's have been sold in for a couple of
months now, in Canada. As far as is obvious to the eye, it contains a 1040
motherboard with only one row of 256K chips instead of two... yes, someone
told me that to upgrade to 1 Meg it IS as simple as plugging in the second
row of chips. Still a lot of soldering, but much simpler than the old piggy
back method.
The other difference is that it contains the RF modulator. The only
problem with this packaging is that it forces the buyer to be stuck with a
single sided drive. Of course you can always buy a second DS drive, but
I've found that mixing a SS and DS drive doesn't make much sense. I had
such a configuration once, and all my disks eventually migrated over to
DS, and I sold my SS drive.
Canada is one of Atari's test markets, and that is why we usually see
such products before the much larger US market. The 1040 was in Canada about
2 months before its introduction in the states, if I remember correctly.
Gee, I wonder if that means we'll get the Megas first...
--
- Jonathan Fischer (jafischer@watrose.UUCP)
or ...watmath!watrose!jafischer
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/23/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Mon, 23 Mar 87 07:19:33 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 6631; Mon, 23 Mar 87 06:55:28 FIN
Date: Sun 22 Mar 87 19:24:08 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #137
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Sunday, March 22, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 137
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
help! vro_cpyfm, vrt_cpyfm
Re: Bad monitor, Bad service
Re: Request for propaganda
Re: a 68010 for your st?
Re: Bad monitor, Bad service
Re: Request for propaganda
Re: a few questions/whatever
Re: RE: RE: Flaming Atari....
Re: problems with comp.binaries.atari.st
Re: a 68010 for your st?
Re: laser printer
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 07:11:04 GMT
From: ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!fornax!chapman@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (John
Chapman)
Subject: Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
> At the Desktop Publishing seminar we saw output from ATARI's
> laserprinter. The quality of the output was exaclty the same (if not
> better) than that of the Apple Laserwriter. The Laserprinter can
> print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X
> 300, you'll need about 4 megs. This is because the LaserPrinter has
This is not the first time I have seen this number (4mb) and it is way
off the mark. A standard 8.5"*11" page requires
300*8.5 * 300*11 bits
=2550 * 3300 bits
=8415000 bits
=1050000 bytes approximately
Add about 30% for legal size.
These are actually inflated since the canon engines only get within
about a 1/4" of the edge of the page.
Add what you want for font storage and you are still way, way below
4mb.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 87 08:47 EDT
From: <JANKOWSJ%UNION.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
Subject: help! vro_cpyfm, vrt_cpyfm
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
X-Original-To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa, JANKOWSJ
Dear G.E.M. Hackers,
Is there any-hacker in this universe that can assist me in
finding information about working with the G.E.M. functions
vro_cpyfm(handle,copy_logic,xy_array,psource_mfdb,pdest_mfdb);
vrt_cpyfm(handle,writing_mode,xy_array,psource_mfdb,pdest,col);
These two functions are used primarily to copy memory from
screen device to ram-memory of visa-versa. However, I would
like to be able to copy from memory to memory or visa-versa.
Can this be accomplished with these functions or am I living in
a fantasy.
If there is some documentation on these functions that are
a little more in-depth than Digital's "GEM PROGRAMMERS GUIDE
VOL. II" of "PROGRAMMER'S GUIDE TO GEM" please drop me a few
bytes.
Sincerely,
C.R.T.
JANKOWSJ@UNION.BITNET
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 00:54:40 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Bad monitor, Bad service
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> My monitor developped a glitch a little while ago that takes the form
> of the image shifting left to right or right to left at random interval and
> random distances. The distance is usually less thatn 5 mm and the entire image
> usually shifts, though occasionally I also notice horizontal spikes and wave-
> ering.
Sounds like your video shifter chip might be flaking out. Try reseating
it, and if that doesn't work, replacing it.
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 19:17:46 GMT
From: viking!leif@sun.com (Leif Samuelsson)
Subject: Re: Request for propaganda
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <995@imagen.UUCP> turner@imagen.UUCP (D'arc Angel) writes:
> There is a port of GNUemacs for the ST, it was posted to the net
> awhile ago, if you want it send me $3 and a mailing address and i
> will send you the programs on a SSDD disk.
No Jim, it was not a port of GNU EMACS, but a version of MicroEmacs
made to be command compatible with GNU. The real GNU EMACS is much
bigger and has a lot more functionality. It will probably be a while
before we see it on an Atari.
I am still waiting for Epsilon to be available for the ST. It is a
commercial EMACS that has been around for PC-DOS for a few years and
has been getting rave reviews on the net. Does anyone know who makes
it?
/Leif
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 20:22:30 GMT
From: cmcmanis@sun.com (Chuck McManis)
Subject: Re: a 68010 for your st?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <682@viper.UUCP>, john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) writes:
> I've been discussing this with a small group of Amiga users. They are having
> the same problems upgrading to 68010's as we are. Aparently there
> is either an alternate "kick-start" disk for use with 68010 Amigas and/or
> there are some people experimenting with a method of detecting the different
> CPU's and booting the correct Amiga os based on what's in the machine.
>
> Either way, it means they have two different operating systems for the
> different cpus. This is a major problem all users wanting to upgrade are
> going to have to face regardless of the machine (ST or Amiga) they're using.
>
John is mistaken, the Amiga will boot with either a 68010 or a 68020
as the main processor. In the first case you simply replace the 68000
chip with an '010 and reboot. In the second you will need the CSA
adapter card since the '020 and '000 are not pin compatible. The
only problem you encounter arises from people using the dreaded
MOV SR, EA instruction, which *none* of the C compilers generate.
(I understand TDI modula-2 may) There is an O/S function call to
get the SR in a compatible way no matter what chip is installed.
Also there is a program to install an exception handler for misbehaving
programs but the OS totally and transparently supports the higher
level chips. DRI was exceptionally short sited in not providing that
support in GEM.
Summary : The Amiga can run '000, '010, and '020 processors without a
change in the O/S or system software. All programs written in C work
also.
-- Inews filler.
-- Inews filler.
--
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 14:00:14 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: Bad monitor, Bad service
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <665@atari.UUCP>, leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) says:
+---------------------------------------------------------
+
++ My monitor developped a glitch a little while ago that takes the form
++ of the image shifting left to right or right to left at random interval and
++ random distances. The distance is usually less thatn 5 mm and the entire
image
++ usually shifts, though occasionally I also notice horizontal spikes and wave-
++ ering.
+
+ Sounds like your video shifter chip might be flaking out. Try reseating
+ it, and if that doesn't work, replacing it.
if you have a one meg upgrade, you might check the connections also
the MMU, try reseating it too. one caveat, if you are not a level 1
hardware magic user don't go pulling chips and reseating them, take
it to your dealer, he may charge you but its better than having to
pay him to repair an 'accident'.
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 13:54:10 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: Request for propaganda
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <664@atari.UUCP>, leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) says:
+ in article <395@laurel.wiley.UUCP>, bob@wiley.UUCP (Bob Amstadt) says:
++ 1. Has Atari upgraded their OS to include some form
++ of multitasking? If not does someone else supply a multitasking
++ OS? What about MINIX?
+
+ No, our OS is not multi-tasking. There are a couple of multi-
+ tasking OS's available:
+ MT-Cshell, from Beckemeyer Development tools
+ OS-9 from MicroWare
there is a port of MINIX being done by Tannebaum's group, i'm afraid
that i don't know the current status
+
++ 3. Who supplies what hard disks for the ST?
+ Atari makes the SH204, a 20 meg hard disc.
+ Supra makes a couple of hard discs for the ST.
Berkeley Micro System's make a board that will allow you to attach
up to 2 SCSI hard disks to the ST.
+
++ 5. Does GNU emacs or a micro emacs run on the ST?
+ There are a couple of good PD MicroEMACS available.
+ I use MicroEmacs 3.7i, which I find is a good tool.
There is a port of GNUemacs for the ST, it was posted to the net
awhile ago, if you want it send me $3 and a mailing address and i
will send you the programs on a SSDD disk.
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 17:23:26 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: a few questions/whatever
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <870315235404.01d@nmfecc.arpa>, PSIMON%PPC.MFENET@NMFECC.ARPA says:
>
> A few questions/whatever:
>
> Alex Leavens, what is the official upgrade policy for 1st Word, Neochrome,
> and (am I dreaming) ST Basic?
>
1st Word--If you don't have version 1.06, you can get it from us. DUe
to contractual difficulties, we will not be releasing 1st Word Plus.
NeoChrome--NeoChrome 1.0 is _not_ public domain--we're selling it, and
it should be available at your dealer.
ST Basic--should happen Real Soon Now (knock on wood).
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 17:27:21 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: RE: RE: Flaming Atari....
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
> BTW the '_' bug is VERY serious, people like you and me just
> shrug their shoulders when they stumble on a bug like that and just don't
> use underscores in paths anymore, but I've seen and heard from a number
> of casual users which got a nasty shock from this bug (ever lost a 10 page
> doc just thru pressing '_'?).
Ya know, it's funny, but just after I posted my message back to you,
I hosed myself with the underscore bug. Sigh. Just goes to show ya--
'Programmer Infallability.' <Big Grin>
--alex @ Atari
BIX:alexl. GEnie: ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp: 408-745-2006
"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all."
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 10:03:07 GMT
From: cbmvax!grr@RUTGERS.EDU (George Robbins)
Subject: Re: problems with comp.binaries.atari.st
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <983@imagen.UUCP> turner@imagen.UUCP (D'arc Angel) writes:
>
>I have gotten a lot of mail form people asking where did
>comp.binaries.atari.st go so i did some checking and it turns out
>that the group was never created ( heaven knows what happened to the
>postings). Anywho i am working with the net-powers-that-be to see if
>this is a bug in news v2.11 or did i screw up. Please be patient and
>we will try to sort this out as quickly as we can.
It was created at this end of the world. Typically, you need to create it
yourself, have several of the net.gods create it and then a random sites
will also create it.
After that, use generally increases the availability factor.
Also note that it is important for you, as the moderator to try to maximize
your own fan-out. One slow to respond site can wipe out your netwide
distribution otherwise. Many sites will cooperate in setting up single-
group news exchanges. Wanna set up a reciprocal daily-dial for this?
--
George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV
Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 12:54:38 GMT
From: cbmvax!grr@RUTGERS.EDU (George Robbins)
Subject: Re: a 68010 for your st?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <682@viper.UUCP> john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) writes:
>
>I've been discussing this with a small group of Amiga users. They are having
>the same problems upgrading to 68010's as we are. Aparently there
>is either an alternate "kick-start" disk for use with 68010 Amigas and/or
>there are some people experimenting with a method of detecting the different
>CPU's and booting the correct Amiga os based on what's in the machine.
>
> Either way, it means they have two different operating systems for the
>different cpus. This is a major problem all users wanting to upgrade are
>going to have to face regardless of the machine (ST or Amiga) they're using.
>
>John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP) Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
I truely hope this will not be the beginning of another flame war!!!
The Amiga operating system was *designed* to work with 68000's, 68010's and
68020's interchangably, and does so remarkably well in the current 1.2
software release, thank you.
Some third party software writers were less cautious of this and other
expansion issues and as a result their *application* software fails to work
on enhanced systems. There are a number of little band-aids available that
are intended to make this crippled software work in the 68010/020 environment.
The whole problem should go away when software authors and marketeers realize
that the Amiga is not a single machine, but rather a family of highly
compatible machines with differing features.
Persons finding any processor dependent bugs in the software are of course
encouraged to forward bug reports to Commodore, so that these things can
be fixed in our next software release.
--
George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {ihnp4|seismo|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr
but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@seismo.css.GOV
Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 23:33:09 GMT
From: labrea!rocky!ali@decwrl.dec.com (Ali Ozer)
Subject: Re: laser printer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <667@atari.UUCP> leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) writes:
> The 8 pages a minute figure is correct. I've never even _heard_ of a laser
>printer that'll do 30 pages a minute...
We have several laser printers capable of printing at 100 pages/minute here!
I'm not sure what their real names are, but they were built by Xerox in mid
70s. (We know them as "dover" printers.) They do go down once in a while,
and they do cost a lot of operate, but, when they're printing, they're flying!
And I'm sure there are other laser printers out there capable of doing
30 pages/minute...
Ali Ozer, ali@rocky.stanford.edu
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/24/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Tue, 24 Mar 87 10:36:13 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 3423; Tue, 24 Mar 87 10:25:45 FIN
Date: Mon 23 Mar 87 22:21:17 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #138
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Monday, March 23, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 138
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Working 4 meg ST
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: ST/020 DMA, and Disk driver bug. (ATARI - please read!)
Re: a 68010 for your st?
Single Sided/Double Sided Drives was (Re: 520 in Canada)
Re: a 68010 for your st?
DSDD Floppy disk drives
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Atari ST system and related items for sale
Re: Bad monitor, Bad service
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 20:16:46 GMT
From: atwell@utah-cs.arpa (Bart L. Atwell)
Subject: Re: Working 4 meg ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
The address for Tech-Specialties is:
tech-specialties
909 Hodgkins
Houston, TX 77032
USA
ph. (713) 590-3738. (call between 4 and 7 p.m. Central Time)
They are selling the 4 meg upgrade for the ST (I believe they have one for
the 1040 as well as the 520). They also have a DMA->SCSI interface.
They seem very eager to get product ideas from customers (would be customers?)
so if you have requests for hardware devices that you think would be
interesting to have, be sure you let them know.
Of course, I have no connection to Tech-specialities except as a customer.
Bart
atwell@cs.utah.edu
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 20:14:00 GMT
From: apollo!weber_w@eddie.mit.edu (Walt Weber)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <659@atari.UUCP> dyer@atari.UUCP (Landon Dyer) writes:
>> in article <901@chinet.UUCP>, cabbie@chinet.UUCP (Richard Andrews) says:
>>> ............................................Is there a patch that I can do
>>> to the handler to enable the second drive? ..............................
>>>
>The Adaptec controller will indeed support more than one drive.
>The current AHDI.PRG hard disk driver does not support more than
>one drive per controller.
The Berkley MicroSystems hard disk driver supports the capability. I am
presently
running two Maxtor 1065's off of an Adaptec, and it works quite nicely, thank
you.
That gives my li'l ol' 520 8 partitions of approx. 14Mb each. I'm now backing
up
from one hard drive to the other, and my floppies are FINALLY getting a chance
to
rest. The backup procedure is not straightforward, however (Carefully
straddling
the 40-folder limit with your source foot and destination ...... :-).
In addition, when you deal with BMS, you also get a clock on the controller,
which
eliminates all problems with cartridge-mounted clocks or piggybacked KBD chips,
etc.
--
Walt Weber PHONE: (617) 256-6600 x7004
Apollo Computer GENIE: W.WEBER
Chelmsford, Mass. COMPUSERVE: 76515,2423
------------------------------
Date: 15 Mar 87 21:31:16 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!reading!onion!minster!martin@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: ST/020 DMA, and Disk driver bug. (ATARI - please read!)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <645@atari.UUCP> dyer@atari.UUCP (Landon Dyer) writes:
>> While I'm talking about Hard disks, has anyone else noticed that the disk
>> Rwabs operation (read/write sectors), takes a sector number which
>> is a 16-bit number!!!! This is the most UTTERLY STUPID thing I have seen
>...
>Deja vu, eh? Let's try this again, a little more constructively:
>
I would like to thank Landon for his swift, and enlightening response to
my panic-stricken article. I havn't tried this yet, but it all makes
sense, and gives every prospect of solving the problem for me.
I only wish the documentation I have (dev system, abacus, etc), was as helpful,
and easy to understand as his response!
Now I can also rest, sure in the knowledge, that someone at atari has seen
my request (clarified nicely by <sorry I can't remember the name>@rochester)
for a REAL SCSI interface.
Martin
usenet: mcvax!ukc!minster!martin
surface:
Martin C. Atkins
Department of Computer Science
University of York
Heslington
York Y01 5DD
ENGLAND
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 19:30:53 GMT
From: cbmvax!daveh@RUTGERS.EDU (Dave Haynie)
Subject: Re: a 68010 for your st?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <682@viper.UUCP>, john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) says:
>
> I've been discussing this with a small group of Amiga users. They are having
> the same problems upgrading to 68010's as we are. Aparently there
> is either an alternate "kick-start" disk for use with 68010 Amigas and/or
> there are some people experimenting with a method of detecting the different
> CPU's and booting the correct Amiga os based on what's in the machine.
>
> Either way, it means they have two different operating systems for the
> different cpus. This is a major problem all users wanting to upgrade are
> going to have to face regardless of the machine (ST or Amiga) they're using.
WRONG!!! The Amiga works just dandy with a 68010, 68020, etc. No alternate
KickStart or other major modification is necessary (well, of course, you'd
need some interface hardware for a 68020). The Amiga's OS was designed from
the start to support any of the 680xx chips running at any speed, and knows
which chip is in the system, and provides processor independent ways of doing
the things that cause problems in other OSs.
There are two major problems with running the 68010 or 68020 on a system that
was originally intended for the 68000. The first of these problems is the
use of the 68000's MOVE from SR instruction. The newer processors allow this
instruction only in Supervisor mode so an operating system running in User
Mode can't see the "S" bit and tell that its really not in Supervisor mode,
where most OSs like to be. The 68010 give you a MOVE from CCR instruction
to access the condition codes. The Amiga's Exec provides a processor
independent function, "GetCC()", which allows a program to get condition
codes from any processor. A (very) few developers have ignored this;
fortunately for any application that does ignore this and uses the MOVE from
SR, its a small matter to install an exception handler that'll trap the
exception this causes, read the condition codes via GetCC(), and then resume
normal operation.
The other big problem when upgrading processors is the fact that the newer
processors store much more information on their exception stacks than the
68000 does. The 68010, for instance, stores information on the internal
processor state to support instruction continuation necessary for virtual
memory systems. Unfortunately, lots of 68000 programmers like to play
around with what's on the stack after an exception. If you switch from a
68000 to a 68010, there's going to be different stuff there, and if your
program depends on that stuff, it'll probably die with the 68010 or 68020
in place. The Amiga's ExecBase structure contains a field that tells a
program the type of processor in use; thus, any exception handling code can
use this to examine exception stacks in a way appropriate to the processor
currently in use. Unfortunately, this is a much more complicated problem
than the MOVE from SR problem, so there's no real way to fix programs that
don't watch out for other processors in place other than rewriting the
offending code (this if of course true for all 68000 systems, not just the
Amiga or Atari). All of the Amiga's OS software works on any processor,
and probably more than 95% of all commercial and public domain software are
well (the Amiga ROM Kernal Manual talks about 68010 and 68020 compatibility
right on the 5th page of its preface; all the developers work from this
book).
> John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
> Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
> UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Haynie Commodore Technology // /| ___ __ __ __
{ihnp4|caip|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh |\ // /_| | / \ / \ / \
Commodore rarely admits to knowing me, \\// / | +--+ | | | | | |
much less sharing my personal opinions. \/ / | |___ \__/ \__/ \__/
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 20:53:24 GMT
From: tektronix!cae780!leadsv!pat@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Pat Wimmer)
Subject: Single Sided/Double Sided Drives was (Re: 520 in Canada)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
When I finally got my hands on a Double Sided Drive, it was in a
Single Sided case. It has a stamp on it to the effect that it was
properly converted. It almost seems as if Atari has dropped the
Single Sided Drive (why did they ever have them?). Maybe they are
clearing out their 520 and 1040 ST's as well?
Pat
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 22:41:34 GMT
From: oyster@unix.macc.wisc.edu (Vicarious Oyster)
Subject: Re: a 68010 for your st?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
<Ever wonder why certain questions get answered faster in the "wrong"
newsgroup?>
In article <1569@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP writes:
>All of the Amiga's OS software works on any processor,
>and probably more than 95% of all commercial and public domain software are
>well (the Amiga ROM Kernal Manual talks about 68010 and 68020 compatibility
>right on the 5th page of its preface; all the developers work from this
>book).
And if I had an Amiga (well, even if I didn't) I could bop on down to the
local B. Dalton's and pick up a copy for a few bucks. Unfortunately, I own
an ST, so I have to rely upon sketchy 3rd-party documentation, or sketchy
first-party documentation for a mere $300. There is hope, though; sometime
in the next several months we may be able to find out at least when we
could *expect* the cleaned up, official documentation (by Christmastime again?).
[I don't *really* regret having the ST-- I only like a couple of the Amiga's
features. Documentation, though, is one of those things the Amiga has that
the ST doesn't. BTW, does anyone know if ST schematics are available from
SAMS yet?]
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 01:34:00 GMT
From: tektronix!reed!iscuva!michaela@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Michael Albo)
Subject: DSDD Floppy disk drives
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Does anyone know of the availability, source and price of a raw floppy
disk drive that I could use to replace my SF-354 Atari drive. I just
find the $200+ price tag of an SF-314 unreasonable when all I want is
to replace the one I am using now. I only wish Atari had let those of
us with fairly old ST's purchase them with available double sided
drives at the time we purchased them.
thanks
Michael Albo
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 23:04:38 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <685@viper.UUCP>, john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) says:
+---------------------------------------------------------
+
+ In article <659@atari.UUCP> dyer@atari.UUCP (Landon Dyer) writes:
+ >
+ >one drive per controller. And naturally, Atari does not
+ >encourage or condone such modifications to the hardware....
+ >
+
+ Well, I suppose that's suppost to be helpful??
+
+ People are asking serious questions about how to expand their storage
+ and all you can say is "Atari doesn't encourage it...."?
one more time... this time with your brain engaged. I have never
seen, nor do i think that i will ever see, a company that encourages
users to open up their hardware and hack away at it. The legal
ramifications are that if the company in any way, shape, or form
condones such behavior then they are liable for any damage done by
the user.
Can you say "tongue in cheek" ? Landon can...
i think i'm getting crotchity in my old age
--
---------------
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 00:42:25 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihlpf!gjphw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Wyant)
Subject: Atari ST system and related items for sale
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
We have recently upgraded our Atari 520ST system by purchasing someone
else's 1040ST system. This has left us with several duplicate items and a lot
of software for sale. We are willing to sell these items as a package or as
individual selections. For those who are interested but living outside of the
Chicago area, we can send you what you want COD by UPS.
------------------------------
hardware:
520ST color system (520ST console with 512K RAM, Atari color monitor,
double-sided disk drive, owner's manual) - $774.00
software included - BASIC, Neochrome (drawing program), First Word (word
processor), LOGO, ST-Writer (word processor). Also, Flash (very good
terminal emulator), DEGAS (excellent drawing program), Cornerman by
Michtron (similar to Sidekick), and five (5) public domain disks:
1. Uniterm 1.7a and arc program disk
2. disk of pictures for Dr. Who and Star Trek characters (includes latest TINY
routine for viewing and scaling)
3. cartoon disk of Warner Brothers and Disney characters (uses TINY)
4. AEGIS Animator demonstration disk (files must be unarced)
5. utility disk containing Apple II and Atari 8 bit emulators plus other
utilities
6. Boffin demo disk - a working prototype of a word processing routine which
can handle graphics as well
An Abacus book titled "Presenting the Atari ST".
------------------------------
A second double-sided disk drive is available for $179.00.
------------------------------
software (all are retail versions with original disks):
Mark Williams C - $89
Megamax C - $110
Final Word - $55
PC-Intercomm - $45
DBman - $65
Infocom Wishbringer - $16
ST-Copy - $15 (400K SS and 800K DS disk formatter included)
Regent Base - $45 (latest GEM version)
Art Gallery I, II (for Printmaster) - $14 each
Naverone Timekeeper - $31
Music Studio - $32 (includes 2 PD disks of 90 songs)
Express Letter Processor - $10
------------------------------
Miscellaneous items:
Mouse Mat - $6
Epyx 500xj joystick - $12
Books:
COMPUTE's Atari ST Programming Guide - $12
SYBEX Programmer's Guide to GEM - $14
Abacus GEM Programmer's Reference Manual - $13
Magazines:
STart (winter '86) - $2
Analog (July '86) - $1
Antic (May, Aug, Sept, Oct '86) - $1 each
ST Applications (Nov '86, Jan '87) - $2 each
COMPUTE! Atari ST (with disk, unopened, Feb, April '87) - $8 each
------------------------------
We have over 120 public domain disks for the Atari ST in our library. Our
user group (Kendell County Atarians) charges $2.50 per SS disk or $3.50 per DS
disk, postage included. If you are interested, call and ask about this.
Gail Wyant
(312) 554-2657
or
Michael Fanelli
DECmail: phdvax::fanelli
or
Patrick Wyant
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, IL
*!ihnp4!ihlpf!gjphw
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 22:50:16 GMT
From: dayton!viper!john@RUTGERS.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Bad monitor, Bad service
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1987Mar13.141548.24430@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu>
pete@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Peter Santangeli) writes:
>
> My monitor developped a glitch a little while ago that takes the form
>of the image shifting left to right or right to left at random interval and
>random distances. The distance is usually less thatn 5 mm and the entire image
>usually shifts, though occasionally I also notice horizontal spikes and wave-
>ering.
I had a similar problem with the first machine I got.
> I took my monitor to Atari service here in Toronto, and they said it
>would take 2-3 days. 7 days later, they told me it was done. I went out to
>pick it up: all there was was a note:No problems, must be with computer.
> This seemed wierd to me as my color monitor has NEVER given me problems.
>Anyways, I took in the whole system. 5 days later. "couldn't find the
>problem".
> Damn! I thought. must be interferance. (though I had checked that). SO
>I set the stupid thing up at WORK. same problem. I took it home, and
>UNPLUGGEEVERY APPLIANCE AND ELECTRICAL DEVICE IN THE HOUSE.
> ***SAME PROBLEM***!!!!
The problem I had occured durring heavy load periods when the line voltage
dropped in my area. Unpluging your whole house wouldn't make much of a
difference one way or another. The service center you went to may have
in a different power distribution area even if it was a block away...
> These guys are either BLIND or just plain aren't willing to spend the
>time to find the problem. Frankly, I am EXTREMELY PISSED OFF. I spent over
>$2000 on atari equipment. Yah, the software isn't great, I can live with that.
>I CAN'T LIVE WITH RUDE AND INEFFECTIVE SERVICE.
Don't go blaming the service guys when they can't recreate the problem. It
took bribing a friendly service tech into coming to my place to figure out
the cause.
> So, I ask the net, has ANYBODY had the kind of monitor problems I have
>been having? I guess I am forced to open the damn thing up myself and fix it.
>Let's hope I don't electrocute myself (for atari Canada's sake!)
I certanly hope you haven't zapped yourself before you read this. The
problem turned out to be a random glitch in the vidio shifter chip
control registers. The solution was to replace the chip...
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/24/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Tue, 24 Mar 87 10:54:28 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 3509; Tue, 24 Mar 87 10:45:28 FIN
Date: Mon 23 Mar 87 22:22:31 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #139
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Monday, March 23, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 139
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Vertical Blank Interrupts
Re: Batteries Included bought out.
Re: Ratfor (!)
PD RSC editor?
UW status report
Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #129
video converter
Re: News from Hannover Messe (really HHG and DEV Kit)
Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 22:30:00 GMT
From: dayton!viper!john@RUTGERS.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Vertical Blank Interrupts
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <741@eneevax.UUCP> iarocci@eneevax.UUCP (Bill Dorsey) writes:
>I've been doing a lot of work involving use of the vertical blank interrupts
>recently, and have noticed certain annoying behaviors. I'd appreciate com-
>ments or suggestions related to either of the following:
>
> [_description of details deleted_]
>
>The other question I have regarding VBIs is this: I want to use a VBI to
>monitor some event, and then after that event occurs, temporarily suspend the
>current process and execute some code that takes a bit of time.
Unfortunately,
>every time I do this, the system crashes very quickly. Bios calls are sup-
>posed to be re-entrant to only three levels, and my code does make a Bios
>call in the interrupt section, so I thought maybe this was the problem.
>
Well, they are supposed to be re-enterant, but it doesn't work right for
bios calls from within an interrupt routine.
I had lots of fun tracking this roblem in a program I wrote which also
tried to make bios/xbios/gem calls from within an interrupt... I tracked
the problem for 4 days thru the bios ROMS. This is one of the problems
I hope they fix in the new ROMs. (Note to Atari: If you guys haven't
come up with a solution for this, contact me....)
There is a bug in how trap 13 and trap 14 (bios and xbios) are handled.
As you pointed out in your message, there is an area used to save registers
while processing a trap call. The code that does the save and restore was
written (aparently) by someone with little or no experience dealing with
an interrupt driven system.
The code in question consists of 10-20 lines of assembly. Since the
interrupts are not disabled and the code is not written in a way that
would allow interrupts to occur without causing problems, you eventualy
end up with a VBI or some other interrupt occuring in the middle of this
save or restore code. If you then try to make a call to the bios (or to
any GEM function which uses the bios) the registers saved for your call
overwrite some (randomly 0-15 of them) of the registers saved for the
call being made at the time of the interrupt. When your interrupt call
returns, the save/restore register bios routine finishes it's job and
the system continues on with no knowledge that the registers saved are
incorrect. When it trys to return to the function that called the bios
in the 1st place, the incorrect registers are "restored" causing lots of
problems all over the place depending on the program being run...
One other possibility is that the bios calls you were making took too
much time to return. There are a few places in the VBI code I doubt will
work very well if you call them a second time before they return from a
previous interrupt...
Hope this explains the problems you (and I) have been having. As a
general rule, "Don't make any BIOS/XBIOS/GEM calls from an interrupt
routine.". There's almost allways a way to get things done without
using them (Note: I said "ALMOST".) So far, I've been able to use
several tricks to get things done when I need to. Hope you can too..
>....... Anybody got any suggestions,
>or will I have to write a multi-tasking kernel just to monitor an i/o port?
>Sure seems like overkill!
Sure would be. Since Beckemeyer has already done just that, perhaps
you would want to try using his multitasking system before you go to
all the trouble of writing your own...
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 08:47:39 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watrose!jafischer@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: Batteries Included bought out.
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>> In any case, if I am wrong and EA did buy BI, then EA would be pretty
>> dumb if they didn't keep distributing Tom's programs -- they certainly
>> made quite a bit of money for BI!
>>
> Electronic Arts did in fact just buy Batteries Included.
> NO word yet on what this means for us Atari owners.
The word from Bruce @ Atari Canada is that EA will be supporting
current BI products (e.g., Degas, Isgur Portfolio, etc.), and dropping
products that were still under development (e.g., PaperClip Elite).
Can somebody correct this? I'm hoping that Bruce (Atari rep) is just
trying to drop some bad hints about products in competition with MS Write.
Not that Bruce is necessarily that kind of guy, I don't really know him.
--
- Jonathan Fischer (jafischer@watrose.UUCP)
or ...watmath!watrose!jafischer
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 16:21:15 GMT
From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom)
Subject: Re: Ratfor (!)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <2120@alvin.mcnc.UUCP> ravi@mcnc.UUCP (Ravi Subrahmanyan) writes:
> Just in case someone's interested.. I have a version of Ratfor
>for the ST; it's pretty complete, and works fine (except for I/O in
>pipes). Any fortran users out there?? 8^)
Sure Ravi (I'm no purist). How about posting to the sources newsgroup?
-Rich
--
//////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
/// Richard E. Sansom TRW Electronics & Defense Sector \\\
\\\ {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom Redondo Beach, CA ///
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 19:52:42 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!its63b!csan@seismo.css.gov (Andie)
Subject: PD RSC editor?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
[************************There aint no such thing as the linea...
Dear Netland,
Does anyone know of a *cheap* (even better,PD) RSC editor that I can get my
hands on ? I am getting pretty frustrated not being able to write friendly
prg's without RSCs . I am also on the scrounge for any ACCSTART libraries
that are going around (suitable for Lattice C,Mod2 and useable from my
M68000 assembler)
Thanks (as they say) in advance.
Andie
Department of Computer Science
EDINBURGH University.
ARPA : csan%ed.its63b@ucl-cs.arpa
UUCP : ...!seismo!mcvax!ukc!its63b!csan
JANET: csan@uk.ac.ed.its63b
% These are my own views and any resemblance to any coherent reasoning is
% probably a typo.
%
% "The back row strikes again!"
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 23:52:02 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!pete@seismo.css.gov (Peter Santangeli)
Subject: UW status report
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hi everybody,
Due to popular demand this is a status report on UW:
My UW is still in the writing stages. I am trying to sort out a
couple of wierdities of the M2 compiler. (large library module hangs compiler
when it gets to declaration pass).
I have heard that there is a version of UW available from Norway (?).
It is apparently a fairly simple implementation. My implementation will be
COMPLETE (with extensions over MAC) when finished, but if people are in a hurry,
perhaps someone can post it. (I would be interested).
Source to my version will be sent to the moderated group, WHEN COMPLETE!and
obviously the binary will be posted as well. I am still waiting for my
version 3 M2 compiler (I have version 1, non-developers) So I still don't have
a resource compiler, which will obviously slow development down a bit. I am
planning on implementing a form of "download" window for the system, so you
can download and read news at the same time :-). I am also considering a D/A
version, though that will have to wait a while (start work on it at the end
of the summer?).
Anyways, to all those who have expressed interest in the project, many
thanks. Your encouragement it greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Pete Santangeli
pete@utgpu
psantangeli on BIX
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 01:52:31 GMT
From: cbatt!osu-eddie!osupyr!akw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (FarOff MicroDesigns)
Subject: Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <10162@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L.
Appelbaum) writes:
>[..]
>print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X
>300, you'll need about 4 megs. This is because the LaserPrinter has
>no memory of it's own. It uses the ST to do all the work. When we
>asked the ATARI rep. at the seminar (I forget his name), about memory
>upgrades he said ATARI does CONDONE upgrades from 3rd party companies.
>
This is (or I think is) *slightly* incorrect. An Apple LaserWriter does not
have 4Mb of RAM, nor does a stock Mac Plus. The Mac (and hopefully the Atari
laser printer) takes PostScript input, which is an object and line-oriented
printer graphics language. It doesn't require a complete bit-map of what-
ever you want to print out. This saves the hassle (and slow speed) of
trying to bit-map an 8 1/2 x 11 page w/ 300x300 dpi in RAM instead of doing
it by objects. *Hopefully* this will be an option on the Atari printer
so that programs that produce PostScript output (i.e. Publishing Partner,
Graphic Artist, etc.) A bitmap is too inefficient, expensive (at this
time) and *slow*. I hope that Atari will consider the PostScript or
QMS language for its printer. Sheez! Even IBM is going to use PostScript
on its laser according to what I've heard!
>I saw a BLITTER in action!
For goodness' sake HOW WAS IT? And when can we see one in our local
Atari dealership (OK Atari...enough Real Soon Now's and some concrete
dates...like Summer '87, Autumn '87...but a _real_ date.)
Andy Weaver / akw@osupyr.UUCP / 614.293.1195 - 614.292.1741 / ========> IX0YE
The Ohio State University / Columbus, OH / "Go Bucks." / Peanut Butter & Jelly
"Like cold water to the bones, so is good news from a distant land." Prov25.25
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 87 10:05:14 est
From: Ashwin Ram <ram-ashwin@YALE.ARPA>
Subject: Re: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #129
To: Info-Atari16 Digest <Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU>
In-Reply-To: Info-Atari16 Digest <Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU>, Tue 17 Mar
87 13:51:00 PST
> Date: 12 Mar 87 23:03:12 GMT
> From: decvax!mcnc!duke!hsg@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Henry Greenside)
> Subject: Scientific word processing on Atari ST machines
> To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
> Can anyone recommend scientific word processing programs or desk
> accessories for the ST class Atari machines? On the Macintosh,
> there are numerous mathematics fonts (Princeton and Symbol), and
> a desk accessory called MacEqn that grealy simplifies the construction
> in object form of mathematical equations. These can then be pasted into
> any desired word processor. Is there anything like that in the Atari
> world?
If you collect any info about this, could you forward it to me please? I'd
like to be able to do this kind of stuff too.
> Also, has TeX been ported to the Atari machines? In particular, are there
> previewers for the ST's? Thanks.
Yup... here's a message I saved a few months ago.
**** Forwarded Message Follows ****
Date: 15 Oct 86 18:54:00 GMT
From: cbatt!cwruecmp!pjd@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (dr. funk)
Subject: ST-TeX from Tools Gmbh
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Product: ST-TeX
Vendor: Tools Gmbh
Kaiserstrasse 48
5300 Bonn 1
Phone: 0228/229791
Price: $150 ($5 shipping)
This is TeX, Version 1.5 for the ST [0.9x] (no format preloaded)
.... and they aren't kidding. We just received a preliminary version
of ST-TeX which is being prepared for the American (English speaking)
ST market by Tools Gmbh. It arrived on six double sided floppies
consisting of TeX itself, a DVI GEM-based previewer, TFM files,
font files, LaTeX format and style files, and IniTeX.
We took two LaTeX files, a mathematical screed on timed Petri nets
and a pictorial introduction to digital system synthesis, and ran
both through without problems or modification. Speed with a hard
disk is roughly equivalent to LaTeX on a 780. If you are split
across two or more machines (and most of us here use an ST, VAX
and/or Apollo daily) you might want to standardize your format and
style files as I've noticed subtle differences such as bold
for description items on the ST and italics on the VAX.
The previewer is wonderful. The scroll bars slide the window around
a page so you can examine every nook and cranny. It is faster than
the Apollo previewer from Yale. Currently, FX-85 Epson compatible
printers are supported. The printed output is great given the 9-pin
head. Make sure you have a big print buffer though -- our standard
buffer size Panasonic 1092 truncates each line. Buffer expansion
options are now on order. Print time is about 6-8 minutes per page.
Tools Gmbh emphasizes that this version is preliminary and that a
newer version will be available near the end of the month. There are
a few problems:
1. The version received needs a full 1 Mbyte of RAM. If you own a
520, it's time to upgrade.
2. Directory searching is not fully implemented. Hence, you need
to drop a hint to the previewer as to the location of the
screen or printer files, TEX.TOS must reside in the same
directory as the TeX input and format files, etc.
3. There are so many files that a single DSDD drive system may
not cut it. A hard disk is strongly recommended.
Tools Gmbh is currently looking for a USA distributer. Since we're
nice guys in a hurry, we convinced Tools Gmbh to sell us a copy.
They do NOT encourage direct sales right now. (We had to draw an
international bank draft and Federal Express'd the order -- I said
we were in a hurry.)
This product is strongly recommended.
--
paul drongowski decvax!cwruecmp!pjd
case western reserve university pjd%Case@CSNet-relay
**** End of Forwarded Message ****
-- Ashwin Ram.
ARPA: Ram-Ashwin@yale
UUCP: {decvax,linus,seismo}!yale!Ram-Ashwin
BITNET: Ram@yalecs
------------------------------
Posted-From: The MITRE Corp., Bedford, MA
To: info-atari16@su-score.ARPA
Subject: video converter
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 87 10:32:25 EST
From: jhs@mitre-bedford.ARPA
John Ogawa and others interested in seeing VCR and TV tuner pictures on their
Atari monitor should write to
John A. Hain, Jr.
Director of Engineering
ProTronics Laboratories
2913 Azalea Road, S.W.
Huntsville, AL 35805
and ask Mr. Hain when the ProTronics video converter will be available.
I have been trying to persuade John to bring this product to market for
several months, but has had many other projects in the commercial broadcast
video area making demands on his time. If he is deluged with requests for
such a converter, it could be available in a few months. If you'd like a
high-quality Atari RGB to NTSC Composite video converter for under $100,
write to the above address and say so!!!
-John Sangster / jhs@mitre-bedford.arpa
------------------------------
Date: 16 Mar 87 16:07:36 GMT
From: tikal!hplsla!hpvcla!ericr@BEAVER.CS.WASHINGTON.EDU (Eric Ross)
Subject: Re: News from Hannover Messe (really HHG and DEV Kit)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
With their experience on all the multitude of IBM clones at varying
clock speeds, I would hope that Flight Simulator will keep track of
real time and produce as many refreshes as possible within the
real-time quantum. Therefore, the blitter should in theory just
cause more refreshes, but not more airplane motion in a given
second. Incidentally, my Cessna on my HP-Vectra(AT clone
at 8 Mhz) runs at the same speed as on an IBM-PC at 4.5? Mhz with
many more refreshes/second.
Eric Ross
Hewlett Packard, Vancouver, WA (Home of the Thinkjet and Quietjet printers)
UUCP: ihnp4!hpfcla!hpvcla!ericr
CIS: 72347,2664
GEnie: E.ROSS
Phone: (206)254-8110
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 15:24:02 GMT
From: appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu (Marc L. Appelbaum)
Subject: Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <110@osupyr.UUCP>, akw@osupyr.UUCP (FarOff MicroDesigns) writes:
> In article <10162@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L.
Appelbaum) writes:
> >[..]
> >print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X
> >300, you'll need about 4 megs.
> This is (or I think is) *slightly* incorrect. An Apple LaserWriter does not
> have 4Mb of RAM, nor does a stock Mac Plus.
>
> >I saw a BLITTER in action!
>
> For goodness' sake HOW WAS IT? And when can we see one in our local
> Atari dealership (OK Atari...enough Real Soon Now's and some concrete
> dates...like Summer '87, Autumn '87...but a _real_ date.)
>
The figures I recieved as to the amount of memory it takes for the
laser printer came right from the horse's mouth. One of the members
of the Atari engineering staff gave me the figure of 4 megs.
As for the blitter, we saw it running a graphic demo. I would say it
was at least 3-4 times faster than the normal ST.
Also accoriding to Mark Jensen the new ROMs will fix some TOS bugs, he
also said they are working on a fix for the 40 folder limit.
Release dates for the Laser Printer, MEGA's and blitter were said to
be around late summer '87.
--
Marc L. Appelbaum "If life is a game of chess
Arpa:appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu and you and I are pawns
Uucp:rutgers!topaz!appelbau what happens when we get to
GEnie: M.APPELBAUM the other side of the board?"
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/25/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Wed, 25 Mar 87 21:54:12 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 1579; Wed, 25 Mar 87 21:26:54 FIN
Date: Tue 24 Mar 87 21:35:38 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #140
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Tuesday, March 24, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 140
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Extension boards for the new Mega Ataris
40 Folder Limit Question for Atari
BMS hard-disk system
Re: a 68010 for your st?
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: Request for propaganda
520 in Canada
Re: Help! vro_cpyfm,vrt_cpyfm
Re: Extension boards for the new Mega Ataris
Scache bug(?), GNUPLOT, GDOS, my e-mail address
Scientific word processors
floating point benchmarks
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 13:45:17 GMT
From: ihnp4!invest!wheaton!stefan@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Stefan Brandle)
Subject: Re: Extension boards for the new Mega Ataris
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I too would be exited to hear about any LAN, etc. boards. Availability (or
non-availability) of such boards could decided issue in terms of whether my
school goes Amiga 2000 or Atari ST on a new lab.
Stefan Brandle UUCP: ihnp4!wheaton!stefan
Wheaton College "But I never claimed to be sane!"
MA Bell: (312) 260-4992
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 87 15:49:31 EST
From: Flash%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: 40 Folder Limit Question for Atari
To: Info-Atari16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
I have a rather interesting question about the 40 folder limit.
1) Atari claims to be working on a fix for it in-house right now.
2) Supra came out with a fix for their hard disks.
3) N. Harris admits publically that Atari has received a copy of
Supra's fix and is currently reviewing it, until then, it is
NOT sanctioned by Atari.
(This was either here or GENIE, I am not sure...)
4) I talked to Mark White, and he told me, that the Supra got
their fix from Atari themselves!
(Mark White is the person in charge of technical support at
Supra...)
Huh?!? Sounds more than a little confusing to me. Mark White
was very amazed that Atari mentioned that they received Supra's
fix and are looking at it.
Rick Flashman
1040 N. Pleasant Street, #381, Amherst, MA 01002. (413) 549-0173
Flash@UMASS.BITNET -or- Flash%UMASS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
R-FLASHMAN on GEnie
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 15:50:46 GMT
From: ihnp4!homxb!houxm!houxj!wkk@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (W.KAPLOW)
Subject: BMS hard-disk system
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
With all the talk of hard-disks on the net, I figured it was time to
check-out putting together my own hard-disk. I wanted to do it cheaply, and
also wanted a little adventure in doing it.
I borrowed a Tandon TM755 disk-drive from work. It is actually a very
expensive drive, but my experience would not have changed if I used a cheaper
one. This drive has 50 MB unformatted capacity, and 28 millisec average
seek time (one hellava-lot better than a Seagate drive). I bought a
150 watt PC-AT power supply from a mail-order company for $79. I later
found one for only $50. Next, I contacted Berkley Microsystems. They were
very helpful and within a week after they recieved my check I received their
boards. Using some screws and other hardware I "found", I bolted the
two board, the BMS-100, and the Adaptek-4000 together. I placed a small
peice of plywood on the top of the bolts and rested the disk on top of it.
The menu-driven software from BMS is very easy to use, and I was formating
the disk within minutes of powering-up the drive.
The added benefit of this system is that the BMS board contains a
battery backed-up clock, which so far seem to work great with software
provided by BMS.
Needless to say, I am very pleased with this system. I run the Beckmeyer
MT-Cshell version 1.10 and it is very happy to be running from the hard-disk.
As an aside, I originally boughtt MT-Cshell version 1.00. This the new
version includes bug fixes for some most of the programs that had difficulty
running under 1.0. This fix thankfully included a fix to a bug that caused
an application I wrote not to work. Also, the update cost me $10.00 and took
only 1.5 weeks to be delivered.
I use the Megamax compiler ver 1.0. I am going to send for an update
to version 1.1 (I think). I'll post a message about the fixes,
improvements etc.
AS always the views and oppinions expressed by me are my own, and
only represent my neurons and not AT&T's or anyone else's who might
yell at me.
Wesley Kaplow
AT&T
Holmdel, NJ 07733
(201)949-0065
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 15:35:54 GMT
From: amdahl!meccts!viper!john@ames.arpa (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: a 68010 for your st?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1563@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins)
writes:
>
>Some third party software writers were less cautious of this and other
>expansion issues and as a result their *application* software fails to work
>on enhanced systems. There are a number of little band-aids available that
>are intended to make this crippled software work in the 68010/020 environment.
It turns out that *application* problems are, in fact, what was causing
the incompatability. The people I was speaking to on this subject are
more "users" than "systems-people". All they knew was they tried to run
some programs on an upgraded machine and it would bomb. They went to the
shop where the upgrade was done. The people there gave them new boot
disks and that solved their problems. (It would appear that a patch
was added to those disks for the specific programs causing problems...)
They assumed it was a different OS and I, foolishly it appears, assumed
that they knew what they were talking about. Sorry for any confusion...
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 16:25:14 GMT
From: amdahl!meccts!viper!john@ames.arpa (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1000@imagen.UUCP> turner@imagen.UUCP (D'arc Angel) writes:
>in article <685@viper.UUCP>, john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) says:
>+ In article <659@atari.UUCP> dyer@atari.UUCP (Landon Dyer) writes:
>+ >one drive per controller. And naturally, Atari does not
>+ >encourage or condone such modifications to the hardware....
>+
>+ Well, I suppose that's suppost to be helpful??
>+
>+ People are asking serious questions about how to expand their storage
>+ and all you can say is "Atari doesn't encourage it...."?
>
>............ I have never
>seen, nor do i think that i will ever see, a company that encourages
>users to open up their hardware and hack away at it. The legal
>ramifications are that if the company in any way, shape, or form
>condones such behavior then they are liable for any damage done by
>the user.
The user who asked the original question was trying to get some advice
on how to get two or more H-disks up and running on a single ST. He did
ask about the possibility of hacking-onto an existing Atari or Supra
(don't remember which) drive, but that wasn't the main point... He
needs more disk space. All Landon's response said was (essentialy)
"Atari isn't about to encourage that kind of thing...". I think my
response to Landon chiding him for not making any -constructive-
suggestions was proper under the circumstances...
I think you're over reacting to my message which essentialy says:
"Come on, you can do better than that." I'm sure ways exist to get
multiple hard drives up on an ST. I'm equaly sure that such setups
are not foreign to Landon/Neil or any of the other kind Atari people
who frequent this group. I have no problems with the "standard
company disclaimer against unsupported HW mods". I think he could
have gone on after giving it to tell the poor guy something that
would help instead of just leaving him high and dry...
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 21:14:36 GMT
From: elroy!jplpub1!jeff@csvax.caltech.edu (Jeff Skaletsky)
Subject: Re: Request for propaganda
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <395@laurel.wiley.UUCP> bob@wiley.UUCP (Bob Amstadt) writes:
>
> 2. Who retails the ST line in the Redondo Beach (LA) area?
>
Compumart in Santa Monica is an ST dealer and service center. The
proprietor, Andrew Takahashi, is very knowledgable and low-key.
The store is located around 23rd and Wilshire (don't remember the exact
address, but it's two doors down from a Fatburger). 1-213-829-3623.
Do I have a lifestyle yet?
Jeff Skaletsky
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
System Engineering Group
Computing and Communication Network Support Services
Try these: jeff@jplpub1.JPL.NASA.GOV
seismo!cit-vax!elroy!jplpub1!jeff
elroy!jplpub1!jeff@csvax.caltech.edu
jeff@jpl-milvax.ARPA
Mail: 464 W. Woodbury Rd. Altadena, CA 91001
Phone: (818)354-7677
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 87 19:58:30 EST
From: MCOHAN%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: 520 in Canada
To: info-Atari16@su-score.arpa
fluke!ssc-vax!benoni@BEAVER.CS.WASHINGTON.EDU (Charles L Ditzel) writes:
> On a recent trip to Vancouver, BC I dropped by a store
> that was selling Atari ST (i think it was A&B Sound in the downtown
> area). They were selling a very odd creature :
>
> A 1040 ST Package *marked* 520 ST on the exterior.
> It came with a single sided internal drive and monitor.
''> I was fascinated. Is this some future migration...?
> it makes sense to me.
According to our Atari representative (Al Rizzo), the version of
the 520ST you saw is the way the future 520's will be packaged.
They will be packaged like 1040's, but be 512K and single sided
drive. He said that Atari would sell out their current stock
of 520ST's (original packaging), and then sell the new 520's from
now on.
Michael P. Cohan MCOHAN@UMass.BITNET MIKECOHAN on Delphi
Organization: The Computer Bug, Inc., 50 Main St. (Rear)
Amherst, MA 01002 (413) 253-7782
"Authorized Atari Sales and Service"
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 19:05:15 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Help! vro_cpyfm,vrt_cpyfm
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <8703170112.AA00614@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, JANKOWSJ@UNION.BITNET says:
> Is there any-hacker in this universe that can assist me in
> finding information about working with the G.E.M. functions
>
> vro_cpyfm(handle,copy_logic,xy_array,psource_mfdb,pdest_mfdb);
> vrt_cpyfm(handle,writing_mode,xy_array,psource_mfdb,pdest,col);
>
> These two functions are used primarily to copy memory from
> screen device to ram-memory of visa-versa. However, I would
> like to be able to copy from memory to memory or visa-versa.
> Can this be accomplished with these functions or am I living in
> a fantasy.
Although I've never actually tried using these functions for memory to
memory move, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't work. Several caveats
are probably in order, however:
1) You'll probably want to use the monochrome raster copy.
2) Make _sure_ that your source and destination blocks the
same size.
3) Make sure the pixel width of your raster is an even multiple
of a word size (ie, 16).
4) You probably want to make sure that your source and destination
rectangles don't overlap.
Good luck!
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 16:38:18 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: Re: Extension boards for the new Mega Ataris
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
The only way the 68881 performance can be fully utilized is to couple
it to a 68020 CPU. (A number I've heard for the Mac II (16 MHz):
150,000 FLOPS.) With a 68000 the 68881 can only be used as a peripheral,
reducing the speed by a factor of 3 or so.
I sure hope there will be a 68020/68881 card for the MegaST, since the TT
seems a long way off. If Atari will not make one, a third party should!
- Moshe Braner
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 16:04:22 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: Scache bug(?), GNUPLOT, GDOS, my e-mail address
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Two people reported that when SCACHE is active and the ST is left to
itself for a long time, it crashes next time the floppy is accessed.
Both people had NITE installed too, but claimed SCACHE was to blame.
I would appreciate any suggestions as to why this might happen, and/or
any more observations.
Three queries:
Is there an ST port of GNUPLOT out there?
Is there PD or commercial software out there to plot scientific data
in a nice way (like "Cricket Graph" on the Macintosh)? Is there any
program that can save the graph as a GEM metafile?
Is there a GEM metafile to Postscript translator?
About ten persons had mail sent to me and rejected since the
label "bullwinkle" has been discontinued. I know little about
these things, so I can only suggest you try again with the following
addresses:
braner@amvax.tn.cornell.EDU (ARPA)
braner%amvax.tn.cornell.edu@CRNLCS.BITNET (BITNET)
{ihnp4,decvax,cmcl2}!cornell!batcomputer!braner (USENET)
- Moshe Braner
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 01:30:37 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <975@imagen.UUCP>, turner@imagen.UUCP (D'arc Angel) writes:
> it bloody well won't work. listen if you are going to speak as an
> atari representive you have a responsiblity to know what you're
> talking about....
If that is a qualification for the position, I guess I'd better resign. :-)
In all seriousness, it looks to me like Alex read the question too fast,
thinking that the question had to do with the internal dip switches on an
Atari hard disk. Landon not only answered the question properly, but
administered the prescribed kick in the shins.
--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris / CIS: 70007,1135 / Delphi: NEILHARRIS / GENIE: NHARRIS
WELL: neil / Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 02:38:34 GMT
From: sandra@utah-cs.arpa (Sandra J Loosemore)
Subject: floating point benchmarks
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I think I must have been asleep when I ran my earlier floating point
benchmarks, because I took a more careful look at it and it turns out I
wrote my numbers down backwards. Here are the correct numbers for
primitive arithmetic operations. These are in 200-hz clock tick units
for 1000 repetitions of the operation, with no attempt made to account
the overhead of the loop. There was no significant difference between
IEEE single and double precision here.
IEEE FFP
+ 15 13
- 15 23
* 22 20
/ 58 19
Ali Ozer <ali@rocky.stanford.edu> recently sent me a floating point
benchmark program called the "Savage" benchmark, which primarily tests
the double-precision floating point math library. I've tacked on his
original message to the end. Here's my C version:
main ()
{ int i, iloop;
double a;
long start, end;
start = gettime ();
a = 1.0;
iloop = 2499;
for (i=0; i<iloop; i++)
a = tan(atan(exp(log(sqrt(a*a))))) + 1.0;
end = gettime ();
printf ("%e\n", (float)(a-2500.0)); /* error term */
printf ("%ld\n", (long)(end - start)); /* elapsed time */
}
And the results for Alcyon C V4.14:
IEEE (libm): 1.763e-7, 72.6 seconds
FFP (libf): 2.269e+2, 7.4 seconds
So the FFP library is much faster, but loses on accuracy as it is only
single precision.
-Sandra (sandra@cs.utah.edu)
-----------------------------------
***************************************************************
* Savage Benchmark Results *
* 16 DEC 1986 *
* Al Aburto/Lew Wolfgang/Larry Phillips/John Gilmore/Ali Ozer *
* Glenn Miller/Mike Howard/And Others........................ *
***************************************************************
123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
System CPU / FPP CLOCK LANGUAGE TIME ERROR
(MHz) (Sec) Abs(a-2500)
Turbo-Amiga (68020/68881) 14.32 Absoft F77 V2.2B 0.39 2.7 E-12
Sun-3/160 (68020/68881) 16.67 Sun 3.0 F77 0.4 2.0 E-12
Turbo-Amiga (68020/68881) 14.32 Lattice C/68881 Assem 0.46 9.2 E-13
HP 9000/320 (68020/68881) Fortran 77 0.7 3.2 E-09
HP 9000/320 (68020/68881) Pascal 0.7 2.8 E-07
Amiga (68020/68881) 7.16 Absoft F77 V2.2B 0.78 2.0 E-12
VAX-8600 Fortran 77 0.9 1.8 E-08
Amiga (68020/68881) 7.16 Lattice C/68881 Assem 0.92 5.9 E-12
HP 9000/320 (68020/68881) C 1.0 2.5 E-08
DEC 2060 1.6 2.0 E-12
VAX-11/750 Fortran 77 1.9 6.6 E-10
Masscomp (68010/ FPP) 2.1 3.2 E-07
VAX-11/780 UNIX 4.3BSD F77-O 2.7 1.8 E-12
Turbo-Amiga (68020/68881) 14.32 MetaComCo ABasiC V1.0 3.2 2.3 E+01
DMS ( 8086/ 8087) Turbo Pascal 3.8 1.1 E-09
Zenith Z-248 (80286/80287) 8.00 MS Fortran77 V3.20 4.5 1.2 E-09
IBM PC-AT (80286/80287) 6.00 ProFor F77 4.9 8.7 E-11
IBM PC-AT (80286/80287) 6.00 MS Fortran77 7.2 1.2 E-09
IBM PC-AT (80286/80287) 6.00 Turbo Pascal 7.4 1.2 E-09
IBM PC ( 8088/ 8087) 4.77 Microsoft C 8.0 1.2 E-09
Amiga (68020/68881) 7.16 Metacomco ABasiC V1.0 8.6 2.3 E+01
Turbo-Amiga (68020/-----) 14.32 Metacomco ABasiC V1.0 13.3 2.7 E+02
Turbo-Amiga (68020/-----) 14.32 ABasiC V1.0(Cache Off) 14.7 2.7 E+02
Sun-3/160 (68020/-----) 16.67 Sun 3.0 F77 21.5 3.1 E-07
Turbo-Amiga (68020/-----) 14.32 Absoft F77 V2.2B 21.9 1.8 E-07
Amiga (68020/-----) 7.16 Metacomco ABasiC V1.0 37.0 2.7 E+02
Amiga (68000/-----) 7.16 Metacomco ABasiC V1.0 39.7 2.7 E+02
Amiga (68020/-----) 7.16 ABasiC V1.0(Cache Off) 42.2 2.7 E+02
HP 9826 (68000/-----) 8.00 HP Basic V2.0 44.5 3.2 E-07
Turbo-Amiga (68020/-----) 14.32 Lattice C V3.03 55.4 3.2 E-07
IBM PC-XT ( 8088/ 8087) 4.77 Gauss 58.0 1.2 E-09
Amiga (68020/-----) 7.16 Absoft F77 V2.2B 59.7 1.8 E-07
HP Integral (68000/-----) Basic Interpreter 60.9 3.2 E-07
HP Integral (68000/-----) C 63.0 3.2 E-07
Amiga (68000/-----) 7.16 True Basic (Compiler) 65.2 3.0 E-03
Amiga (68020/-----) 7.16 MS AmigaBASIC V1.0 67.0 3.2 E-07
Amiga (68000/-----) 7.16 MS AmigaBASIC V1.0 73.0 3.2 E-07
Amiga (68000/-----) 7.16 Absoft F77 V2.2B 77.2 1.8 E-07
HP Integral (68000/-----) Absoft F77 100.0 1.8 E-07
Amiga (68020/-----) 7.16 Lattice C V3.03 139.0 3.2 E-07
Macintosh (68000/-----) 7.83 MAC C 221.0 (?)
Amiga (68000/-----) 7.16 Lattice C V3.03 234.0 3.2 E-07
Macintosh (68000/-----) 7.83 DeSmet C 244.0 (?)
Commodore 128( 8502/-----) 2.00 Basic Interpreter 256.0 9.0 E-04
Macintosh (68000/-----) 7.83 Manx Aztec C 353.0 (?)
IBM PC-XT ( 8088/-----) 4.77 BASICA 895.0 3.0 E-08
Tandy PC-5 Basic Interpreter 961.0 2.7 E-03
****************************************************************************
Notes:
(1) The Savage Benchmark, by Bill Savage, first appeared in Dr. Dobb's
Journal, Sept 1983, page 120.
(2) The Macintosh results are from Byte, The Small Systems Journal,
Aug 1986, page 254. There appears to be a 'typo' in the
published accuracy results. Exact result should be 2500.0 .
(3) The Savage Benchmark requires use of IEEE double precision
to obtain a reasonably small error. The error is unacceptably
large for IEEE single precision. All the above results were
obtained with double precision except for the MetaComCo ABasiC
where double precision variables were used but the math functions
were calculated only to single precision. As can be seen ABasiC
is fast but the error is too large for a meaningful result.
-----------------------------------
c Here is the Savage Benchmark Program:
c **************************************
c * Fortran 77 *
c **************************************
Program Savage
implicit double precision (a-h,o-z)
write(*,1000)
a = 1.0
iloop = 2499
do 100 i=1,iloop
a = dtan(datan(dexp(dlog(dsqrt(a*a))))) + 1.0
100 continue
write(*,1010)
write(*,1020) a
1000 format(5x,'Start')
1010 format(5x,'Stop ')
1020 format(5x,'a = ',f22.15)
stop
end
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/25/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Wed, 25 Mar 87 11:20:30 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 8966; Wed, 25 Mar 87 11:12:22 FIN
Date: Tue 24 Mar 87 21:40:06 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #141
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Tuesday, March 24, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 141
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Crystal Castles for the ST
Re: Ratfor (!) (In C too !!)
Re: help! vro_cpyfm, vrt_cpyfm
mega-st info please
Engineering Symbols on Panasonic Printer
Rats..
Linking ROMable code on the ST
Publishing Partner Printing Problems
reading from the midi port
Re: Small's 410k fast formatter
Re: Hacking at Megamax C (query)
Thank you for a fine job
Ramblins...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 13:57:49 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watmath!looking!david@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Crystal Castles for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I just bought Crystal Castles for the ST, and wonder of wonders, it
works in MONOCHROME TOO !!! It looks pretty good in B&W, much better
than I thought it would.
It is VERY close the arcade game, and plays well with the mouse
(you can also play with a joystick)
I wish more companies would take the extra time to get their products
running under monochrome as well as colour...
By the way, it looks good in colour too :-)
Cheers,
David Rowley
Looking Glass Software
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 18:27:17 GMT
From: mnetor!yetti!oz@seismo.css.gov (Ozan Yigit)
Subject: Re: Ratfor (!) (In C too !!)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1684@trwrb.UUCP> sansom@trwrb.UUCP (Richard Sansom) writes:
>In article <2120@alvin.mcnc.UUCP> ravi@mcnc.UUCP (Ravi Subrahmanyan) writes:
>> Just in case someone's interested.. I have a version of Ratfor
>>for the ST; it's pretty complete, and works fine (except for I/O in
>>pipes). Any fortran users out there?? 8^)
>
>Sure Ravi (I'm no purist). How about posting to the sources newsgroup?
>
I have sent my Ratfor-in-C to mod.sources a couple of days ago.
It is in C, and includes F77 output, and case-stmt handling.
I suspect that It will be easy to put it up on an Atari. It
corresponds very closely to the Software Tools book version.
enjoy.
Oz
--
The best way to have a Usenet: [decvax|ihnp4]!utzoo!yetti!oz
good idea is to have a Bitnet: oz@[yusol|yuyetti].BITNET
lot of ideas. Phonet: [416] 736-5053 x 3976
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 06:44:08 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!pete@seismo.css.gov (Peter Santangeli)
Subject: Re: help! vro_cpyfm, vrt_cpyfm
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hi everybody,
Just thought I'd clear up the vro_copyform problem.
vro_cpyform copies a rectangular bitmap from one location to another
based on bit boundaries. (vro_cpyfm is similar, so I will stick with
vro_cpyform). The function looks like this:
vro_cpyform(handle,wr_mode,pxyarray,psrcMFDB,pdesMFDB);
"handle" is the VDIHANDLE previously obtained when opening the
application under GEM. (see graf_handle in documentation).
"wr_mode" is the writing mode under which the transfer will be
performed. example direct transfer of bits, or source bits xor'd into
destination bits.
"psrcMFDB" and "pdesMFDB" are pointers to "memory form definition
blocks". These are data structures that describe the memory areas being
transferd to or from (more later...).
"pxyarray" is a standard GEM input array which describes the
offsets and sizes of the rectangles within each memory area described by
the MFDB's that will be transfered.
An MFDB is a 10 word parameter block consisting of:
(2 words) memory address of block in question. Please note that if this
0, GEM will fill it in with the address of the current logical
screen.
(1 word ) block width in points.
(1 word ) block hieght in points.
(1 word ) block width in points/16 (words).
(1 word ) raster format flag. 1 indicates that the block is in a standard
format suitable for transfering between, say color and b&w, or
even to IBM PC GEM. 0 indicates that the block is device specific
(0 is usually used).
(1 word ) number of planes of color. (1 for mono).
(3 words) reserved, make them 0.
While I have never had to do memory to memory raster copies, I often
do memory to screen and the inverse, with no problem. Unless GEM is much more
brain damaged than anyone imagined, there should be no problem with memory to
memory.
Pete Santangeli
pete@utgpu
-----
^
\__ new address!!
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 03:38:15 GMT
From: renoir.Berkeley.EDU!john@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (John Coker)
Subject: mega-st info please
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I've been hearing people refer to the ``new'' (future) version of the
st as a ``mega-st''. I'd like to know just how this machine is better
than the current 1024 st, when it's going to come out and how much it's
going to cost (if anyone knows).
I've heard (or thought I heard):
- more bits on the screen
- blitter (or more display chips?)
- faster and/or more memory standard
- 680[12]0 upgrades
- arithmetic coprocessor
Are any/all of these true? When can we expect the machine? In what
price range will it be? The system which looks attractive at the
moment is the 1024 st; I'm interested in where the mega-st improves
on the 1024.
Will this machine really be an improvement on the st; is it a sliglty
better replacement for the st or a larger machine? More bits on the
screen would be a wonderful improvement--especially if the physical
monitor got larger also. (BTW, is there any way to get more pixels
with the current st and another monitor?)
If this information is general knowlege, please just respond to me.
Otherwise, others may also be interested. If the thing (or marketing
propaganda) is already at stores in Berkeley, please tell me where.
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 18:23:19 GMT
From: ihnp4!mhuxu!cbz@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Craig B. Ziemer)
Subject: Engineering Symbols on Panasonic Printer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I have finally gotten around to writing a "print filter" which
allows my Panasonic KX-P1080 printer to print engineering (read
Greek) symbols through my Habawriter wordprocessor software. If
anyone wants a copy of the filter file let me know. If you don't
have the Habawriter wordprocessor you can still use these codes
to download the special symbols to your Panasonic printer.
The characters I have developed codes for are: big and little
sigma, mew, tau, infinity, alpha, pi, omega, beta, gamma, epsilon,
lamda, delta, angstroms, theta, phe, phi, pho and phum. (:^)
Craig Ziemer at AT&T-BL
mhuxu!cbz
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 03:19:03 GMT
From: ucsdhub!hp-sdd!ncr-sd!ncrcae!ece-csc!mcnc!ravi@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu (Ravi
Subrahmanyan)
Subject: Rats..
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
[]
I have a clarification to make re. my earlier posting about
the availability of Ratfor.
Ratfor is >not< a compiled language.
Ratfor is a preprocessor that converts Ratfor code to regular fortran
(rather unpleasant fortran, but the good part is you don't have to
look at it) which must then be compiled by a standard fortran compiler
(eg. the Absoft compiler).
Sorry if I gave the impression that it included a compiler,
-ravi
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 13:53:04 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!warwick!daffy@seismo.css.gov (Steve Hunt)
Subject: Linking ROMable code on the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hi ST-folk,
I'm attempting to link a program that resides partly in ROM
and partly in RAM. It won't be run on an ST, I'm just using the ST
to develop and link the program.
The program is divided into two modules, let us call them
"one" and "two." The code in module "one" is to reside in RAM at
address $4000. The code in module "two" is to reside in ROM at
address $80000. The data from both sections will reside in RAM at
$1000 up.
Now, the question is this: how can I go about linking the beast?
I've got the Developer's Kit but LINK68 and LO68 don't seem to provide
facilities for doing this sort of thing. Of course, the two sections
need to know about each other's symbols. So I can't get away with linking
the two parts separately.
BTW, I tried welding the two assembler files together with appropriate
ORG directives to $4000 and $80000, but to my dismay the assembler took
about 20 minutes to produce a HUGE object file with... guess what...
$79000 nulls up front....
Ideally I'd like to link the modules in order to satisfy the references
between them, but end up with 2 object files (preferably in S-record format)
which I can then load into the appropriate places in store.
Any help much appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Steve Hunt.
--
"University computer centers are notorious for being run by
empty-headed bozos." -- Henry Spencer.
Steve Hunt, DONALD Programmer 1st Class
Mail: daffy@warwick.UUCP sahunt@warwick.UUCP daffy@uk.ac.warwick.ubu
Home: "The Silo", 15 Molesworth Avenue, Stoke Green, Coventry CV3 1BU, UK
Tel: 0203 447765
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 04:08:52 GMT
From: jade!eris!cathy@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Publishing Partner Printing Problems
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Some Publishing Partner files I've created on a 1040 print fine
on an Apple Laser Writer, but others give a Postscript errors
and refuse to print. I have not noticed any similarities in the
files that don't print (yet).
Anyone experienced the same problem? (I am using version 1.01)
Thanks,
Cathy
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 16:30:10 GMT
From: decvax!cca!m204help@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Keith Hedger)
Subject: reading from the midi port
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I am trying to read data from the midi in port on the 520 ST and
am having a problem. My program is written in MEGAMAX C and basically
grabs midi data a byte at a time and stuffs it into an array...when the
array reaches a length of 78 it is displayed on the screen and a new
string starts getting written. My problem is that I hook up a sequencer
to my ST and start it putting out midi data and start running my program.
My program always displays 4 or 5 lines of midi data then exits the program.
(In other words the sequencer is still running). If I stop the sequencer
and run the program again, it typically puts out another 4 or 5 lines of
midi data then stops. I run it again and the port is clear.
My program is basically built with a big 'while' loop which says
'while data is at the midi in port do blah blah blah'.
I have seen some messages from the 'bix' section of Byte where people
were saying that they had had the same kind of problem, and that the
buffer that handles incoming midi data is too small....they allocated
their own buffer large enough to handle the data.
My question is: If the buffer is filling, why would having my program
read from it and stuff the data into a bigger buffer, work any better
than reading data from it and putting it into strings to be output ?
Is putting the data in strings to be output that much slower than moving
the data into an internal buffer ????
I would appreciate any suggestions any of you MIDI hackers out there can
give me.
thanx,
keith hedger
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 87 20:08:00 GMT
From: ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!franco@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: Small's 410k fast formatter
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
There is one more thing that must be done to David Small's 400k fast
formatter (START - latest issue) in order to make it useful. The executable
given in START always sets the disk serial number to 0. This is interesting
because, according to the source code, the executable should set the disk
serial number to a random number. I suppose the executable provided in
START was a preliminary version. Small probably realized there was a
problem and changed the sources, but neglected to send the updated
executables to START. All is not lost, however. In sector 3 there is the
HEX string FFFFFFFF. Simply change it to HEX 0FFFFFFF to get random
serial numbers.
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 04:51:08 GMT
From: ihnp4!alberta!sask!long@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Warren Long)
Subject: Re: Hacking at Megamax C (query)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <425@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, braner@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu
(braner) writes:
> Also: has anybody made an alternative printf/scanf that skips the FP stuff
> (to make it smaller). Has anybody bought the Megamax library source code
> (offered for $50)? Is it worth it?
>
> These sorts of optimizations-by-the-users have been done on the DRI/Alcyon
> compiler. Why not for Megamax?
>
> - Moshe Braner
>
> PS: does anybody know whether the Megamax Resource Construction program
> will work with OSS Personal Pascal? Is the .RSC file format standard?
> How would you get the Pascal .I file? Is it easy to translate the C .h
> file to the .I form?
The resource files are all the exact same format. However, if you load
a RSC file into the editor without the extra info files, you will have
to add in all the names and types of dialog boxes yourself. Then when
saving it, it will create a new file. (the info file is .DEF for
Megamax Resource construction set and .DFN for the developer's kit).
It makes it awkward to switch from one to the other, but at least you
don't have to start from scratch.
Back to the topic at hand... Has Megamax changed the 32K code limit
yet??? My program is pushing that limit (31986 or something), and I
have lost any desire to add new features, so I don't go over the edge.
Warren
--
=-=-=-=-=-Warren Long at University of Saskatchewan, Canada-=-=-=-=-
Home: 78 Carleton Dr.,Saskatoon, Sasakatchewan, S7H 3N6
Phone: (306)-955-1237
=-=-=-=-=-U-Email: ...!ihnp4!alberta!sask!long -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 10:59:51 PST (Thursday)
From: Bicer.ES@Xerox.COM
Subject: Thank you for a fine job
To: ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!franco@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
----------------------------------
Over 200 copies of different versions of the STarter Kit were mailed out and
many of these were duplicated and redistributed. The operation went very
smoothly - nearly everyone followed instructions to a T and sent the correct
----------------------------------
Thank you for taking the time and trouble to make so many people
very happy.
Jack Bicer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 87 22:01:43 EST
From: Flash%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: Ramblins...
To: Info-Atari16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Peter Santangeli writes:
> These guys are either BLIND or just plain aren't willing to spend the
>time to find the problem. Frankly, I am EXTREMELY PISSED OFF. I spent over
>$2000 on atari equipment. Yah, the software isn't great, I can live with that.
>I CAN'T LIVE WITH RUDE AND INEFFECTIVE SERVICE.
Peter,
Maybe you want to take a road trip down to Amherst, Mass? I run an
Atari ST Sales and Service center, and our technician is a master at
hardware. We could run right through it and solve it all. I know it
is kind of sad, but Atari's requirement to have a "real" tech has
degraded to soup. Our local competition has some high school kid who
is never in and does nothing. Atari's official word is "So what? Until
someone complains by official channels.." Soooo, we are now making
money by fixing the computers for our competition. (As long as it is
out of warranty...)
But we can probably figure it out, if not, search for another
dealer, I believe that even in Toronto there should be several honest
and capable dealers available.
On other stuff. Mail order places.
S&S took three weeks to deliver something for me that they claimed
would be shipped the next day UPS BLUE! And they still send it UPS
BLUE three weeks later. But by that time I got it from somewhere
else, and I refused it. (heh heh)
CMO (Computer Mail Order) seems to be pretty good and honest. I got
a printer from them. FAST. They are pretty good on whether something
is in stock or not. "We have 2 in stock..." And they ship fast.
Then of course, there is always your dealer. Find a good one who
discounts, and then you wont have to sweat it while waiting for an
UPS truck.
Rick Flashman
1040 N. Pleasant Street, #381, Amherst, MA 01002. (413) 549-0173
Flash@UMASS.BITNET -or- Flash%UMASS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
R-FLASHMAN on GEnie
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/26/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Thu, 26 Mar 87 15:01:50 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 5248; Thu, 26 Mar 87 13:41:19 FIN
Date: Wed 25 Mar 87 21:35:37 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #142
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, March 25, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 142
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
icon
RE: 68000 box
Re: Ratfor (!) (In C too !!)
Re: reading from the midi port
Atari ST system and related items for sale (revised)
Publishing Partner memory usage
Re: Help! vro_cpyfm,vrt_cpyfm
1st posting to comp.binaries.atari.st
Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
Re: laser printer
The New 8-Bit Emulator
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 87 22:20:44 EST
From: Michael DeCorte <l40a%CLUTX.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
To: INFO-ATARI16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Subject: icon
I have the icon programming language for the st. Icon has
nothing to do with the icon's used by the st, it is a high
level language that implements back-tracking.
Anyone who wants it email me.
michael decorte
l40a@clutx.bitnet
p.s. please include your bitnet or arpa address. I don't have
access to UUCP.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 87 22:39:37 EST
From: Michael DeCorte <l40a%CLUTX.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
To: INFO-ATARI16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Subject: RE: 68000 box
There have been several comments on the net lately about
adding this or that to the unix box that atari is planning.
While all of the additions that I have seen are very
interesting I can not support them.
The 68000 box as I understand is supposed to be a cheap, fast
unix box that plugs into the back of the ST. The proposed
additions contradict this purpose. Each addition adds to the
cost of the machine and it will delay it's release. I don't
think anyone wants to have to pay more and wait longer for
unix on the ST.
If a multi-user box is desired then one possible solution
would be to create (perhaps by third party) a box with
a bunch of rs-232 ports in it. The rs-232 box could
be just another thing on the dma-bus. This has the advantage
that it would be useful even without the unix box and to
make the unix box work with the rs-232 box should involve a
DRIVER change not a HARDWARE change. Of course this
would cost more than if the unix box had rs-232 ports but
not everyone want's a multi-user machine. This
was just something that came to me and I have not
really thought it out, so it may to be even be possible but
the point is there are other ways to add power other than
make one really powerfull box.
michael decorte
l40a@clutx.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 00:16:25 GMT
From: mcnc!ravi@seismo.css.gov (Ravi Subrahmanyan)
Subject: Re: Ratfor (!) (In C too !!)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <472@yetti.UUCP> oz@yetti.UUCP (Ozan Yigit) writes:
> I have sent my Ratfor-in-C to mod.sources a couple of days ago.
> [....] I suspect that it will be easy to put it up on an Atari.
The version I started from is from a previous posting by Ozan.
The circle closes..
-ravi
ps: I'll get his newer posting (in mod.sources) and set that up on
the ST (unless someone's done it; in that case please post. It looks
like lots of people are interested after all).
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 00:32:47 GMT
From: rgoodman@csvax.caltech.edu (Ron Carl Goodman)
Subject: Re: reading from the midi port
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <14085@cca.CCA.COM> you write:
>...
>grabs midi data a byte at a time and stuffs it into an array...when the
>array reaches a length of 78 it is displayed on the screen and a new
>string starts getting written. My problem is that I hook up a sequencer
>to my ST and start it putting out midi data and start running my program.
>My program always displays 4 or 5 lines of midi data then exits the program.
>My program is basically built with a big 'while' loop which says
>'while data is at the midi in port do blah blah blah'.
The problem is really that your ST is a fast computer! When your
sequencer is plopping out data, your ST reads it in. At first, before your
program is going, the data is stored in the 128 byte midi buffer. As you
read the data, more is being placed in the buffer, but the sequencer does
not spew out data as fast as the ST reads the data. So your buffer is
eventually depleted. When the ST catches up (based on when you ran
the program in relation to turning on the sequencer) your ST will make
a request for data and there will be none waiting. A fraction of a second
later, some will be waiting, but its too late... your while loop has
fallen through.
One solution is to use something that checks the port N times before deciding
that no more data is truly there (to be sure that no more is coming). N
can be found experimentally. 300 is plenty. This kind of method is sort
of icky, because N may not work when this program is run on a different
computer. Another solution is to call a system timer with a delay of like
1/10 of a second and check again before determining no data is left.
By the way, you might wonder how this method works, since the time between
two notes could actually be far more than 1/10th of a second. Sequencers
put out timing signals as part of the MIDI code (I think 247) at a constant
rate to solve that problem. Unfortunately, there is no standard END_OF_
SEQUENCE marker.
Ron Goodman
--
rgoodman@cit-vax.caltech.edu _______ _________ _________ |
rgoodman@cit-vax.bitnet / \#/ \#/ | Pasadena
rgoodman@cit-vax.uucp |alifornia |nstitute |echnology | California
\_______ ___/#\___ of | | U. S. A.
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 23:45:04 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihlpf!gjphw@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Wyant)
Subject: Atari ST system and related items for sale (revised)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
We have recently upgraded our Atari 520ST system by purchasing someone
else's 1040ST system. This has left us with several duplicate items and a lot
of software for sale. In my original posting, I omitted a single-sided disk
drive which is also available, so I will repeat that part of the notice that
should be changed. For those who are interested but living outside of the
Chicago area, we can send you what you want COD by UPS.
------------------------------
hardware:
520ST color system (520ST console with 512K RAM, Atari color monitor, disk
drive, owner's manual)
: with single-sided drive - $674
: with double-sided drive - $774
software included - BASIC, Neochrome (drawing program), First Word (word
processor), LOGO, ST-Writer (word processor), and DBmaster (GEM based
database utility). Also, Flash (very good terminal emulator), DEGAS
(excellent drawing program), Cornerman by Michtron (similar to Sidekick),
and five (5) public domain disks:
1. Uniterm 1.7a and arc program disk
2. disk of pictures for Dr. Who and Star Trek characters (includes latest TINY
routine for viewing and scaling)
3. cartoon disk of Warner Brothers and Disney characters (uses TINY)
4. AEGIS Animator demonstration disk (files must be unarced)
5. utility disk containing Apple II and Atari 8 bit emulators plus other
utilities
6. Boffin demo disk - a working prototype of a word processing routine which
can handle graphics as well
An Abacus book titled "Presenting the Atari ST".
------------------------------
A second double-sided disk drive is available for $179.00.
The single-sided disk drive alone is $85.00.
Gail Wyant
(312) 554-2657
or
Michael Fanelli
DECmail: phdvax::fanelli
Bluebell, PA
or
Patrick Wyant
AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, IL
*!ihnp4!ihlpf!gjphw
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 87 20:41 AST
From: <FXDDR%ALASKA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
Subject: Publishing Partner memory usage
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
X-Original-To: arpa%"info-atari16@su-score.arpa", FXDDR
I made up a demo file for Publishing Partner, incorporating graphics,
Helvetica, and Times-Roman fonts at various sizes, saved it on disk and
went on to other things. This morning I booted from my Uniterm disk,
which sets up a 400K eternal ramdisk and loads Antic's Crystal desk
accessory. I cranked up Pub Partner to convert my demo to PostScript
on the ramdisk so I could upload it for printing.
When the demo loaded, yuk! The Times-Roman was now Martian-Hieroglyphics.
I checked the font menu and in place of Times-Roman was more Martian.
Hmmm. After some fooling around I found that when I rebooted with a
320K ramdisk and no desk accessories, I had Times-Roman again. So it
looks like when memory gets tight, the last font in the table gets
grunged.
However, with the 400K ramdisk and Crystal, Pub Partner's "Don't Look..."
box showed free program space of about 200K and free system space of about
7K. No sign that it is worried about lack of RAM. With the smaller ramdisk
and no DAs free program space is about 300K and free system space is still
about 7K.
The question is this: why does the font get trashed? Pub Partner doesn't
seem to be upset about the amount of ram, and its display shows no shortage.
Is there some sort of interaction between Pub Partner and Crystal? Or
does the ramdisk mess up Pub Partner's memory allocation? My main concern
is that there doesn't appear to be a way to tell when you've stepped over
this line...things just start getting trashed. Any ideas?
For now I will do my composing with no DAs and no ramdisk just to be safe.
Don Rice
University of Alaska, Fairbanks BITNET%"FXDDR@ALASKA"
CIS 72337,3417 // KL7JIQ
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 03:01:52 GMT
From: mnetor!utgpu!pete@seismo.css.gov (Peter Santangeli)
Subject: Re: Help! vro_cpyfm,vrt_cpyfm
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <672@atari.UUCP> leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) writes:
>in article <8703170112.AA00614@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, JANKOWSJ@UNION.BITNET
says:
>> Is there any-hacker in this universe that can assist me in
>> finding information about working with the G.E.M. functions
>
> 2) Make _sure_ that your source and destination blocks the
> same size.
Although I have yet to try it, According to Abacus, when given differing
sizes of blocks, the system uses the size of the source block.
>
> 3) Make sure the pixel width of your raster is an even multiple
> of a word size (ie, 16).
This is only necesairy when speed is at a premium. The routines can
handle bit-boundaries. This brings up an interesting point of interface theory.
I have noticed that many GEM programs snap windows to 16bit boundaries.
I fully understand the rational for this, but I don't think I agree with it.
Though doing this increases speed, it very much reduces the quality of the user
interface. Snapping takes away the feelinng that what you do is what you get.
I would rather have the machine do EXACTLY what i want, and decide when
running a program whether I want 16 bit boundaries. This is sort of a time-
interface tradeoff. One of many in a windowing system!
>
> 4) You probably want to make sure that your source and destination
> rectangles don't overlap.
I can see no real reason for this. The routines are "smart" and can
transfer over each other.
>
>Good luck!
Yup!
Pete Santangeli
pete@utgpu
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 23:48:46 GMT
From: imagen!turner@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (D'arc Angel)
Subject: 1st posting to comp.binaries.atari.st
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I have just post my first program to comp.binaries.atari.st, it is
the SpaceWars game (Version 3.1). hopefully most of the bugs are out
of the system. However i doubt it, could people give me feedback as
they receive the posting, thanks. Also I am sending it to
INFO-ATARI16@SCORE which i hope will get it onto ARPA but i still
need help with BITNET, would some kind soul like to volunteer as my
gateway to bitnet ????
--
---------------
C'est la vie, C'est la guerre, C'est la pomme de terre
Mail: Imagen Corp. 2650 San Tomas Expressway Santa Clara, CA 95052-8101
UUCP: ...{decvax,ucbvax}!decwrl!imagen!turner AT&T: (408) 986-9400
------------------------------
Date: 18 Mar 87 15:50:31 GMT
From: decvax!watmath!daemon@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <10162@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> you write:
>Mark did say that the box would only use the ST's I/O ports. Well why
>not put a few RS-232 ports on the box. This would allow you to hook
>your 8-bit up to your ST as a terminal. It could also be used in a
>University Microlab, for running a BBS and allowing console logins.
>Another use would be in an office situtation. This way many people
>can access the same files, share printers, etc. It seems that this is
>VERY possible under System V UNIX.
I'm a little leary of this suggestion. The 68020 box would be a wonderful,
single-user, Unix workstation. Adding multiple serial ports to allow a lot
of multi-user use would change this inexpensive Unix workstation into an
"Office" computer, with a corresponding increase in price. Atari would have
to pay AT&T for additional licenses; there would be more gunk in the drivers
and hardware to suppport the extra serial ports, etc., etc.
I would like a couple of serial ports for one extra terminal, a modem, etc.,
but nothing more. Atari has often been the David of the computer industry;
I would prefer that the 68020 box remains affordable and doesn't turn into
another Goliath of a computer.
Mike Berkley, University of Waterloo
UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,utcsri,utzoo}!watmath!watsup!mberkley
Bitnet: mberkley%watsup%waterloo@csnet-relay.ARPA
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 05:18:08 GMT
From: mnetor!genat!maccs!cs3c3cg@seismo.css.gov (Ray )
Subject: Re: laser printer
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <667@atari.UUCP> leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) writes:
>in article <261@nikhefh.UUCP>, t68@nikhefh.UUCP (Jos Vermaseren) says:
>>
>> At Hannover I saw the Atari laser printer.
>> It was announced as a 8 pages per minute printer.
>> In a report from the computer show in Vegas I read
>> something about 30 or more pages per minute. Was the person
>> who mentioned this mistaken, or is this not the same printer ?
>> ...Alex ??....
>
> The 8 pages a minute figure is correct. I've never even _heard_ of a laser
>printer that'll do 30 pages a minute...
>
Oh yeah,
The IBM 3800 Laser printer prints at 2 1/2 pages a second!!!
thats 150 pages a minute!!!
Now before any of you in netland start salavating, there is a catch,
the price,
a cool $1M (at least that is what I was told) :-) :-)
Ray Wong
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:08:44 PST
From: johnson%msuhep.hepnet@lbl.arpa
Subject: The New 8-Bit Emulator
To: INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
X-ST-Vmsmail-To: LBL::"INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU"
Howdy Netland!! I have heard very little about the NEW 8-BIT
Emulator and thought I would give an update on its current status.
For those of you who are not familiar with the Beta version that
has been out for awhile it may be because it was _OFFICIALLY_ ordered
out of distribution by Atari corp. {Question to Alex, why did you
wait until last week to even call the author, when Atari made this
declaration at least a month ago?????}
The emulator does a real good job of emulating 8-bit software
and should be in distribution again soon. You see there was a
reason Atari ordered this yanked; it used Atari OS images....
yes, this is illegal. Darek's (the person who did the programing)
newest version, being completed this weekend, will come up and
ask you if you want to be an 8-bit atari or an apple II today!
Although I understand both the Apple II and the Atari emulators
run at about a quarter of the speed on their respective machines,
they are pretty impressive. The Atari emulator, for instance,
emulates almost everything but player missle graphics!!
{I should be recieving a test copy next week and I will inform you
of what progress he has made.}
The purpose of my posting this is to a) inform the info-atari
readers of this new piece of software and to b) bring up the poor
attitude of Atari. Both of these topics are covered in much
greater detail in the following articles. The first is by Darek
Mihocka, the author, and the second is by John Nagy, sysop and Vice
President of C.H.A.O.S. users group in Lansing, Mi.
Responses from Atari are welcomed (have you recieved your copy yet
Alex?? <grin>)
Good reading, John Johnson- ST Interest Group President, C.H.A.O.S.
--------------------------
(reprinted from ZMAG)
Current information about the ST
Transformer as of 03/09/87
By Darek Mihocka (CIS 73657,2714)
Programmed by Darek Mihocka
additional programming and all night
testing by Ignac Kolenko hardware
supplied by:
Xanth Computer Systems
600 First Avenue
Seattle, Washington
The purpose of this document about
the ST Transformer is: - to explain
its purpose and give a history of its
development - to give the latest
information about the ST Transformer
- to discuss the legal problems with
this program and why I can't release
it to the public for all former Atari
400/800 owners - to find other
programmers to work on this project.
For those of you unfamiliar with the
name, you have seen it as the Atari
800 Emulator Demo or the Apple ][
Emulator.
Part 1:The history
When Atari introduced the ST
computers, I was then the owner of
an Atari 400, bought way back in 1981
with all my summer's earnings. Like
many other people I spent a
considerable amount of money on my
system for software and disk drives.
About the only piece of hardware that
I could use on the ST was my FX80
printer. This is not too useful as
none of the software works. So I held
off buying an ST for over a year as I
waited for Atari to introduce some
kind of a device or program to allow
me to run old software. They never
did. I finally sold the 400 and
bought the ST anyway because after
using 68000 based in machines at my
university, I was impressed by its
power and already had a program in
mind.
The implementation:
The first project I decided to work
on was to somehow run the old
software so that all that money
didn't all go to waste. I considered
2 approaches:
- the first approach is to write a
program that reads a binary file
from a 400/800 and convert each
machine language instruction into
a 68000 instruction. This would
then create a file on the ST that
would run about 10 times the speed
of the original file!
Problems:
- how do you tell the difference
between code and data?
- how to handle self modifying code?
- how to handle the hardware
registers?
- the second approach is to write an
interpreter, similar to the way
BASIC interprets a tokenized
program, or the way that a real
microprocessor executes code. You
read in a byte of memory,
determine which 6502 instruction
it is, and execute it. The real
6502 executes microcode. I would
use 68000 instructions.
Problems:
- the overhead of processing each
instruction is greater than the
time it takes to actually execute
it.
- how to handle hardware registers?
I chose the second approach because
it solves the first two problems of
the first approach, and shares the
third problem. The problem of speed
is also in both approaches. Software
running at ten times the speed is
usually unusable. This is similar to
the problem when some IBM PC software
is run on an AT or even worse, a
Compaq 386 (18 times faster). It is
always possible to use software
running slower. The unknown is how
slow the software would run. The
hardware problem can be solved by a
similar interpreter which checks
which register is being accessed and
does something accordingly.
First results:
The first version of the 6502
interpreter was written in Megamax C
in August. As it turned out, the
unknown speed was about 7% of the
speed of a real 6502. This does not
include the extra interpretation of
hardware. It was obvious that hand
coded 68000 code was needed. About a
month later, I had the hand coded
version sort of working at about 30%
of the speed. To make the hardware
interpreter would be difficult,
because of the dozens of hardware
locations in a 400/800. I chose then
to first do an Apple ][ hardware
emulator, because there are only 2
vital locations needed to get it to
work: the keyboard and the screen.
The next month was spent debugging
the many bugs that crept into the
6502 interpreter and porting software
from . Finally it worked, at about
25% of the speed.
This is the version that you have
seen as the Apple ][ emulator.
First Problems:
One problem with all emulators is
inherent in their design: to emulate
the software of another machine, you
must transfer that software. When I
approached Apple about this, they
told me that what I am doing is
illegal, since I copied the ROMs of
Ignac's no name ][ clone, which had
ROMs probably derived from an Apple.
I approached Apple Canada about
getting the real ROMs from them, plus
the code for Apple DOS, and anything
else they'd want to let me try. As it
turned out, they saw my project as
software piracy and told me to forget
it. I guess they didn't want to
expand to the ST market anyway. After
the Apple told me they weren't
interested, I decided to stop
spending more time on Apple
emulation. I ported over my copy of
the Translator disk's image of the
Revision B ROMs. I chose those ROMs
because they are made to run with 64K
of RAM, which is what the 6502
interpreter sees when it is
executing. I also ported a copy of
Atari Basic to use as a test file.
After only a few days of hacking the
Apple ][ routines, I got a very
primitive version of the Atari
emulator working. It only supported
a few graphics modes and still had a
major 6502 bug, but it sort of
worked. I uploaded it to my BBS and
to Atari's BBS as the Atari 800
Emulator Demo.
Part 2: the Atari 800 emulator
What happened then was a big shock.
I got a phone call from one of the
Atari BBS sysops telling me that
Atari was not pleased with what I had
done. They too considered my program
as piracy. I was told that I would be
contacted within a few days to
discuss the emulator. No one ever
called back, and I have never been
able to get through to anyone that
would discuss it with me. The
secretaries usually screwed me around
on the phone. Attempts to reach
someone willing to talk on Compuserve
also failed.
What I currently have is a program
that appears to execute 6502 code
according to the 6502 specs at about
20% of the speed. This includes the
overhead of the hardware interpreter.
The hardware supported so far
includes:
- graphics modes 0,1,2,3,6,6+,7,7+,
and 8
- most display lists, no matter how
complex
- most keyboard keys, including
START, SELECT, OPTION, RESET,
caps, inverse, and BREAK.
- the color registers, and a few
other miscellaneous locations
- most read and write DOS operations
- 1 joystick port
- printer output -
Runs most BASIC software I've
downloaded from BBSs and tested.
Not supported yet:
- GTIA modes
- player missle graphics
- sound registers
- a combination of the two mentioned
approaches, where parts of the
operation system are hand coded to
68000 code and executed directly,
not interpreted. This is already
done for the D: and P: drivers,
but I plan to eventually do the
whole operating system which would
result in a significant speed
increase.
Part 3: Legal Problems
According to Apple and Atari, it is
illegal for me to distribute the
emulator any more because I had
included the ROMs with the demos.
That is the reason I have not
released anything in over 2 months.
I respect their legal right, but I
also believe that Atari has an
obligation to all the tens of
thousands of 8 bit owners who helped
build the Atari empire. The only
people who can make a perfectly legal
emulator are Atari themselves. I have
spent about 500 hours of my time
planning, programming, and testing my
program. This may seem like a lot,
but it works out to about 10 weeks of
full time work, or about 2 to 3 weeks
work for a team of Microsoft caliber
programmers, which I assume Atari
has. With their technical knowledge
of both the 8 bit and the ST
computers, I don't see why Atari
couldn't have released an fully
implemented emulator 18 months ago.
They were quick to introduce the CP/M
emulator. I've compared the code of
my program and theirs, and it is
quite similar. So they are half done
already. Until they do, I will keep
working on my program until it is
functional enough to run most
software that can be downloaded. Once
released, it will be up the
individual used to copy their ROMs
over to the ST. Atari says that's
illegal. For as long as the people do
it for their own use, I do not see
this as being illegal. I do not have
access to high priced lawyers, so I
am hoping that Atari will finally
talk to me and come to an agreement
that will benefit us all.
Part 4: Programmers Wanted
Most of the emulator is written in
68000 code, with C code handling the
less critical routines. It has been
suggested that I write my program
for the Amiga, because its superior
graphics would make it easier to
implement player missle graphics and
the other features. Since I have
never programmed the Amiga, I cannot
make the Amiga version. What I would
also like to do is write hardware
emulators for other computers, like
the Commodore 64, VIC 20, Color
Computer, Sinclair, etc. Anyone
proficient in 68000 programming that
would be interested in writing those
modules starting sometime next fall
or winter should contact me.
Until then, keep an eye out on your
local BBS for the ST Transformer
which I hope to have released in
June. I will update the situation on
the board I hang out on, Megabaud
416-243-9519. Anyone having any
suggestions on the program or who
can help me with the legal questions
can reach me on Compuserve or write
to me before May 1 ,1987 at 5023
148th Ave. N.E. #G207, Bellevue,
Washington
[ED.] In addition to this text sent
in by Darek. I would like to add that
I have spoken to this gentleman
myself and feel that he is entitled
to some type of official response
from Atari Inc. In the weeks ahead
and until we feel that Atari is
looking into this matter, we will
update you on a weekly basis and
next week, we will supply you with
a few names and addresses to send
off letters to. If we can produce a
loud enough voice as 8 bit owners,
we can perhaps persuade Atari to
respond.
>> Note: Darek told John Nagy that Alex did FINALLY call
>> after what was rudely and inordinate ammount of time.
>> Alex informed him that Atari would have to do ALL distributing
>> of it.. I'll try to get him to mail me a reply to post next week.
----------Article 2----------------------------
Supplied by the CHAOS BBS-
Reprinted From MICHIGAN ATARI
MAGAZINE by permission.
THAT WAS THE ATARI EMULATOR THAT WAS
by JOHN NAGY (C.H.A.O.S.)
An "800" emulator for the ST is a
reality! I have seen it and talked
to the author. DAREK MIHOCKA of the
LONDON, ONTARIO area, has written and
distributed several levels of beta
test versions on BBS's. He
originally planned to make a emulator
for just about all the 6502 machines,
but has since broken the emulations
into separate versions for the APPLE
][, the ATARI, and soon the COMMODORE
64. (YIKE!).
The version I saw ran no graphics and
did not support DOS functions. But
in a telephone interview on February
22, Darek, a 20 year old college
student at Waterloo University
outside Toronto, told me that he has
now developed the emulation to
produce all graphics modes, DOS
support, and even DISPLAY LISTS!
Still to be developed are PLAYER
MISSLE GRAPHICS and SOUND.
Additionally, there seems to be a
string-handling bug in the ATARI
8-bit BASIC emulation but Darek
expects to have that corrected
shortly. UltMAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/27/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Sat, 28 Mar 87 05:47:45 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 7180; Sat, 28 Mar 87 05:41:01 FIN
Date: Thu 26 Mar 87 20:32:49 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #143
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, March 26, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 143
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
TeX and SIGNUM
Re: 40 Folder Limit Question for Atari
PD yacc is NOT PD!!!
Re: reading from the midi port
Background picture
keyboard driver on ST
Mail order company selling Pirated software in W Germany
Re: PD RSC editor?
Re: reading from the midi port
Looking for Simon Poole
Re: Crystal Castles for the ST
Re: mega-st info please
Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 87 00:17 AST
From: <FXDDR%ALASKA.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu>
Subject: TeX and SIGNUM
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
X-Original-To: arpa%"info-atari16@su-score.arpa", FXDDR
From mcvax!unido!tub!csch@seismo.css.gov (Clemens)
>Both products (TEX & SIGNUM) are sold by GERMAN companies.
>If you`re interested, I`ll send the addresses ...
I would really like to see these products distributed in the US. Calling
Europe from Alaska isn't much fun since they are almost 180 degrees out of
phase with us time-wise. And from what I've seen international mail is
one of the few things that makes US Mail look good.
But be that as it may, I'd like to find out more about the products,
particularly SIGNUM. Do they have English documentation? Will they work
with US keyboards and ROMs? Any reviews? (I know the TeX packages have
turned up in TUGboat.) Speaking of TUGboat, I called the US developer who
makes an Amiga TeX and who was said to be working on an ST version...he
said that his group had dropped the ST product because they felt the German
versions made it redundant...
Someone could earn my Undying Gratitude (for this month, anyway) by extracting
instructions from the producers on how to order the products from the US
(ie, price including postage in DM and preferred form of payment).
Maybe Atari could give them a call and offer assistance in US marketing? They
need products like these to be serious contenders in the academic arena.
Don Rice
University of Alaska, Fairbanks BITNET%"FXDDR@ALASKA"
CIS 72337,3417 // KL7JIQ
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 01:38:21 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: 40 Folder Limit Question for Atari
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <870318154931.0000040B.AMZP.MA@UMass>, Flash@UMASS.BITNET (Rick
Flashman) writes:
> I have a rather interesting question about the 40 folder limit.
> 3) N. Harris admits publically that Atari has received a copy of
> Supra's fix and is currently reviewing it, until then, it is
> NOT sanctioned by Atari.
> (This was either here or GENIE, I am not sure...)
Thats the story BACKWARD. I understand that ATARI shipped a copy of a fix
to Supra for them to test. Not the other way around. I also hear that our
engineering folks were a bit surprised to see Supra release the fix already.
--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris / CIS: 70007,1135 / Delphi: NEILHARRIS / GENIE: NHARRIS
WELL: neil / Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 18:28:47 GMT
From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom)
Subject: PD yacc is NOT PD!!!
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Ouch!!! John Gilmore has informed me that the so-called "PD yacc" which I
pulled off of the net a couple of months ago is in fact poorly-disguised
AT&T code!!! So, for everyone out there who received copies from me (there
must be at least 5 or 6 or you out there), please, Please, PLEASE destroy
your copies as I have destroyed mine!!! <-- is that enough "!"s ?
John (gnu@hoptoad.UUCP) also was kind enough to point out that GNU has put
together a truly original yacc implementation called "bison" which may be
distributed freely (it is _not_ in the public domain).
Thanks, and sorry for the mess.
-Rich
--
//////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
/// Richard E. Sansom TRW Electronics & Defense Sector \\\
\\\ {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom Redondo Beach, CA ///
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 13:33:41 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihuxz!burris@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Burris)
Subject: Re: reading from the midi port
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <14085@cca.CCA.COM>, m204help@cca.CCA.COM (Keith Hedger) writes:
>
> I am trying to read data from the midi in port on the 520 ST and
> am having a problem...
> ...when the
> array reaches a length of 78 it is displayed on the screen and a new
> string starts getting written...
You do not have enough real time to be doing printf's and/or other screen
output if the MIDI data is coming in at near the MIDI baud rate. The 520ST
does use a circular FIFO buffer algorithm and you MUST unload the data into
your private buffer fast enough to insure that there is no overflow. Disk
I/O is completely out of the question! MIDI data MUST be stored in memory
until completion then stored.
I have solved the real-time printing problem in the hopes of real-time
graphical note representation by driving a MIDI 1.0 protocol handler
via the MIDI port interrupt and using my own interrupt code instead of
ATARI's. This frees the processor to do other tasks between MIDI bytes
while insuring that notes don't get missed.
Dave Burris
ihnp4!ihuxz!burris
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 11:58:48 PST (Friday)
Subject: Background picture
From: BHolland.ElSegundo@Xerox.COM
To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU
I might be getting my systems confused but is there a utilitie for
replacing the gray desktop with a degas picture? if so where might it be
found ?
Bill
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 87 22:03:03 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!warwick!donald@seismo.css.gov (Tim Bissell)
Subject: keyboard driver on ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
If you hold down the shift key and type a couple of letters fast
e.g. L and P, sometimes you will get a phantom null (^@) keypress
between the letters. Has anyone else encountered this? The easiest
(and safest) way of doing this is to get into a command line interpreter
and try it; you should get a line like:
{d} LPLPLPLPL^@PLPLPL^@P
if you type fast enough. (I tried it with Mark Williams shell)
I first met it while typing HLP in me3.7 using the shift key instead of
caps lock. What happened was the help screen would get called up! I
suppose this was because the help function was bound to some function
key, and the phantom keypress had the upper 8 bits of the word set to some
garbage. Actually sometimes the computer crashed, and I lost about
fifteen minutes typing the first time; most irritating.
I assume the driver software could not keep up with my typing and the
extra processing involved with the shift key press (see, even 68000s can't
keep up with my typing:- has anyone had this sort of problem on a Cray? 8^).
Any comments? Atari?
--
/*
* Tim Bissell ... the six million donald man ...
* donald@uk.ac.warwick
* ...mcvax!ukc!warwick!donald
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 22:28:50 GMT
From: ptsfa!hoptoad!db@ames.arpa (David Beckemeyer)
Subject: Mail order company selling Pirated software in W Germany
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
There is a mail-order company in W. Germany that is producing
illegal copies of the Beckemeyer Development Tools MT C-Shell.
They are re-printing the manuals and producing "fake" versions
of the software package, complete with fake serial numbers.
Unfornunately, they are also selling the product at more than
double it US retail price, over $250 US! BDT cannot register
the pirated, illegal copies, so the poor purchaser of these
"imatation" Mt C-Shell's loses.
So beware of Mail order companies selling Mt C-Shell in W. Germany.
These are not the real thing!!
If you have a question or suspision about a particular mail-order
company, please contact me.
- David Beckemeyer
Beckemeyer Development Tools
478 Santa Clara Ave
Oakland, CA 94610
(415) 452-1129
BBS: (415) 452-4792 (300-1200 baud, 24hrs.)
CIS: 74236,625
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 18:06:39 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: PD RSC editor?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <335@its63b.ed.ac.uk>, csan@its63b.ed.ac.uk (Andie) says:
>
> Does anyone know of a *cheap* (even better,PD) RSC editor that I can get my
> hands on ? I am getting pretty frustrated not being able to write friendly
> prg's without RSCs . I am also on the scrounge for any ACCSTART libraries
> that are going around (suitable for Lattice C,Mod2 and useable from my
> M68000 assembler)
Well, I don't know of any public domain RCS's, but Kuma sells an RCS
independently of any compiler, etc., and it's fairly cheap. (Its around
50 bucks, US, I don't know what it sells for in England.).
I haven't played with it myself, so I can't vouch for it's completeness,
etc., but others who've used it say it's pretty good.
--
--alex @ Atari {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
BIX: alexl. GEnie:ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp:(408)-745-2006
"Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers."
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 87 02:55:54 GMT
From: rgoodman@csvax.caltech.edu (Ron Carl Goodman)
Subject: Re: reading from the midi port
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1932@ihuxz.ATT.COM> burris@ihuxz.ATT.COM (Burris) writes:
>In article <14085@cca.CCA.COM>, m204help@cca.CCA.COM (Keith Hedger) writes:
>>
>> I am trying to read data from the midi in port on the 520 ST and
>> am having a problem...
>
>You do not have enough real time to be doing printf's and/or other screen
>output if the MIDI data is coming in at near the MIDI baud rate.
I don't think you normally have to concern yourself with that since sequenced
MIDI data does not come in anywhere near the MIDI baud rate. Each second,
MIDI theoretically can transmit almost 4K, but in reality, it transmits
less than a hundred bytes per second generally. If you're having a problem
because your sequencer adds timing marks that increase the bytes/sec (still
nowhere near 4K/sec) then simply ignore those bytes. I have displayed
MIDI data using C. True, if you are displaying 100 numbers/sec you are
at about the limit, but that is not what caused Keith's original problem
of his program ending before the data was all sent. That was caused by the
fact that his program thought he was out of data because he read it too fast.
Receiving MIDI data itself takes a small percentage of the processors time
unless you are transmitting special data (e.g. with a sampling synthesizer you
might transmit the waveform data).
Ron Goodman
--
rgoodman@cit-vax.caltech.edu _______ _________ _________ |
rgoodman@cit-vax.bitnet / \#/ \#/ | Pasadena
rgoodman@cit-vax.uucp |alifornia |nstitute |echnology | California
\_______ ___/#\___ of | | U. S. A.
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 22:19:29 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Looking for Simon Poole
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Simon, I know you're out there. Can you please mail me your (voice) phone
number? We need to talk to you about something where we can use your help.
Thanks.
--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris / CIS: 70007,1135 / Delphi: NEILHARRIS / GENIE: NHARRIS
WELL: neil / Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 18:50:10 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Crystal Castles for the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <757@looking.UUCP>, david@looking.UUCP says:
>
> I just bought Crystal Castles for the ST, and wonder of wonders, it
> works in MONOCHROME TOO !!! It looks pretty good in B&W, much better
> than I thought it would.
>
> It is VERY close the arcade game, and plays well with the mouse
> (you can also play with a joystick)
Thanks for the kind words! We're glad you like the game. (By the way,
I simply _cannot_ play it with a mouse. I die instantly. I do much
better with a joystick...)
--
--alex @ Atari {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
BIX: alexl. GEnie:ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp:(408)-745-2006
"Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers."
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 18:48:23 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: mega-st info please
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <17916@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, john@renoir.Berkeley.EDU (John Coker)
says:
>
> I've been hearing people refer to the ``new'' (future) version of the
> st as a ``mega-st''. I'd like to know just how this machine is better
> than the current 1024 st, when it's going to come out and how much it's
> going to cost (if anyone knows).
>
> - more bits on the screen
o Nope. The Megas have the same graphics resolution as the ST's.
> - blitter (or more display chips?)
o Yes. The Megas will have the blitter.
> - faster and/or more memory standard
o Yes. The Megas will come in 1, 2, and 4 meg configurations.
> - 680[12]0 upgrades
o Interesting rumor, eh?
> - arithmetic coprocessor
o Another interesting rumor, eh?
Here's basic background information on Megas:
--The CPU is a 'base unit', roughly 22 inches square. It contains
a single built in floppy, and has a detached keyboard, a la an IBM PC.
--The Megas have an internal battery backed up clock.
--The Megas have the blitter chip and appropriate ROM software built
in.
--The Megas are completely compatible, in every way, with the
current ST's.
--
--alex @ Atari {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
BIX: alexl. GEnie:ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp:(408)-745-2006
"Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers."
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 18:12:08 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: 68020 Box, laser printer, Eastern Pa. Expo
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <110@osupyr.UUCP>, akw@osupyr.UUCP (FarOff MicroDesigns) says:
>
> In article <10162@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU> appelbau@topaz.RUTGERS.EDU (Marc L.
Appelbaum) writes:
>>[..]
>>print up to 300 X 300 DPI. In order to layout a full page at 300 X
>>300, you'll need about 4 megs.
> This is (or I think is) *slightly* incorrect. An Apple LaserWriter does not
> have 4Mb of RAM, nor does a stock Mac Plus. The Mac (and hopefully the Atari
> laser printer) takes PostScript input, which is an object and line-oriented
> printer graphics language. It doesn't require a complete bit-map of what-
> ever you want to print out. This saves the hassle (and slow speed) of
> trying to bit-map an 8 1/2 x 11 page w/ 300x300 dpi in RAM instead of doing
> it by objects.
Well, I don't know what the final decision is on how we are going to map
images--however, we are already supporting GDOS and GEM Metafiles, so that
programs like Easy Draw II work _beautifully_ on the laser printer (I know,
I'm using the one in the lab to do some stuff. Gorgeous? Makes you wanna
cry, it does.)
>>I saw a BLITTER in action!
>
> For goodness' sake HOW WAS IT? And when can we see one in our local
> Atari dealership (OK Atari...enough Real Soon Now's and some concrete
> dates...like Summer '87, Autumn '87...but a _real_ date.)
If I knew when, I'd tell you, honest. And as soon as I _do_ know, I'll
pass along that information.
As to how it looks....well, basically, it looks great! That thing
_cooks_ along...
--
--alex @ Atari {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
BIX: alexl. GEnie:ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp:(408)-745-2006
"Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers."
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/27/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Sat, 28 Mar 87 06:32:58 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 7215; Sat, 28 Mar 87 06:26:17 FIN
Date: Thu 26 Mar 87 20:34:11 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #144
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, March 26, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 144
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
Re: Caution with S&S Wholesalers of Miami Beach
Bug in OSS Pascal memavail function
Re: Extension boards for the new Mega Ataris
Re: help! vro_cpyfm, vrt_cpyfm
Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
How big is displayed screen on Atare SM124?
How to get started
uuslave
Re: a few questions/whatever
Re: Flaming Atari....
Re: moving across the ocean - (nf)
Emacs 3.8b bugs on the way
Fortran notes (long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 18:39:14 GMT
From: imagen!atari!leavens@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Alex Leavens)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
in article <694@viper.UUCP>, john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) says:
>
> In article <1000@imagen.UUCP> turner@imagen.UUCP (D'arc Angel) writes:
> >in article <685@viper.UUCP>, john@viper.UUCP (John Stanley) says:
> >+ In article <659@atari.UUCP> dyer@atari.UUCP (Landon Dyer) writes:
> >+ >one drive per controller. And naturally, Atari does not
> >+ >encourage or condone such modifications to the hardware....
> >+
> >+ Well, I suppose that's suppost to be helpful??
> >+
> >+ People are asking serious questions about how to expand their storage
> >+ and all you can say is "Atari doesn't encourage it...."?
> >............ I have never
> >seen, nor do i think that i will ever see, a company that encourages
> >ramifications are that if the company in any way, shape, or form
> >condones such behavior then they are liable for any damage done by
> >the user.
> The user who asked the original question was trying to get some advice
> on how to get two or more H-disks up and running on a single ST. He did
> ask about the possibility of hacking-onto an existing Atari or Supra
> (don't remember which) drive, but that wasn't the main point... He
> needs more disk space.
You can, indeed, hook up more than one SH204 to an Atari ST, but it's a
pain. You'll have to make your own hydra headed cable (two hard drive
cables into one), that's the hard part. The easy part is opening up your
second drive and flipping the drive unit select switch that's on the
board right next to the DMA plug. Flip the switch to indicate that
it's drive 1, and not drive 0. Then hook up both drives, and if you've
wired your cable right, you're done.
A caveat, however--if you have an early ST, the DMA chip in the ST may
have trouble driving the loads of two SH204's. This is why we don't
particularly recommend this option.
--
--alex @ Atari {sun,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer
BIX: alexl. GEnie:ALEXLEAVENS AtariCorp:(408)-745-2006
"Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers."
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 87 06:43:08 GMT
From: ucsdhub!jack!man!wolf!malice@sdcsvax.ucsd.edu ( malice )
Subject: Re: Caution with S&S Wholesalers of Miami Beach
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
>
> I realize that this may not necessarily be appropriate, but for all those
> poor souls getting shafted by various companies (blacpatch, S&S) I would like
> to recommend Lyco Marketing & Consultants (or something like that). Of course
> I have no connection with them other than an extremely satisfied customer
> on several occassions.
I just (tonight) got my 1040ST from Lyco. They are great. Nice discounts and
nice service. Recommended if you plan to go mail-order, and maybe if you
aren't. Their order number is 1-800-233-8760.
[message really sent by billw@wolf on another's account]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 87 13:43:28 est
From: Eric Terrell <terrell@ohio-state.ARPA>
To: info-atari16@su-score.arpa
Subject: Bug in OSS Pascal memavail function
There's an interesting problem with the OSS Pascal memavail function.
The value returned by this function does not increase after the dispose
procedure has returned some memory to the dynamic heap. The value
only changes (decreases) following a call to the new procedure, or when
the os allocates some memory.
When I first noticed this, I assumed that dispose simply didn't return
memory to the heap. In fact it does, but the value returned by memavail
does not reflect this.
To ascertain that dispose does in fact return memory to the heap, I wrote
a test program that repeatedly allocates and frees memory. It worked fine.
The solution to this problem is, I suppose, to keep track of available
memory manually when using the dynamic heap.
Terrell
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 87 14:20:14 GMT
From: amdahl!meccts!viper!john@ames.arpa (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Extension boards for the new Mega Ataris
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <442@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> braner@batcomputer.UUCP writes:
>
>I sure hope there will be a 68020/68881 card for the MegaST, since the TT
>seems a long way off. If Atari will not make one, a third party should!
>
>- Moshe Braner
Agreed!
So when is the Branner Microsystems 68020 expansion board going to be
available? :) I, for one, would probably buy it sight unseen...
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 87 14:44:22 GMT
From: amdahl!meccts!viper!john@ames.arpa (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: help! vro_cpyfm, vrt_cpyfm
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1987Mar18.014408.23167@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu>
pete@gpu.utcs.UUCP (Peter Santangeli) writes:
>
>[well written description of vro_cpyform...]
>
>...(vro_cpyfm is similar, so I will stick with vro_cpyform)....
Mind telling us what the differences are (if any)?
> "pxyarray" is a standard GEM input array which describes the
>offsets and sizes of the rectangles within each memory area described by
>the MFDB's that will be transfered.
You give enough details for all the -other- parameters that someone could
use the function without needing further documention. How about describing
pxyarray so other people will know enough to use it??
(Why tell people just enough to -almost- be able to use it?)
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 87 15:05:07 GMT
From: amdahl!meccts!viper!john@ames.arpa (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Adding another Hard Drive??
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <679@atari.UUCP> leavens@atari.UUCP (Alex Leavens) writes:
>
> You can, indeed, hook up more than one SH204 to an Atari ST, but it's a
>pain. You'll have to make your own hydra headed cable (two hard drive
>cables into one), that's the hard part. The easy part is opening up your
>second drive and flipping the drive unit select switch that's on the
>board right next to the DMA plug. Flip the switch to indicate that
>it's drive 1, and not drive 0. Then hook up both drives, and if you've
>wired your cable right, you're done.
>
> A caveat, however--if you have an early ST, the DMA chip in the ST may
>have trouble driving the loads of two SH204's. This is why we don't
>particularly recommend this option.
>
Bravo! This is exactly the kind of answer I appreceate! Thank you Alex.
One minor point... What has to be done (if anything) to the HD driver
on the ST (or the other utilities for that matter) to get them to
realize there's additional disk space out there?
Also, is it possible to do this with an Atari HD and a Supra and then
which HD driver would one use? (Not holding my breath on this one, I
mainly curious about just how compatable the Supra and Atari hard
disks are... I own a Supra and it would be nice if I wanted to expand
if I could buy an Atari HD if I wanted to...)
>"Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers."
(chuckle!)
---
John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP)
Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems
UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 87 04:10:18 GMT
From: ihnp4!homxb!genesis!odyssey!jcs@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (j.c.schwebel)
Subject: How big is displayed screen on Atare SM124?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I just bought an Atari SM124 monochrome monitor for the 1040 ST
and am a little disappointed by the size of the displayed screen area.
The physical screen is 6 7/8" by 9 1/2" but on my monitor the actual
displayed image is 4 7/8" by 8 1/16".
The vertical distance seems a little small.
Could anyone tell me if this is standard or if my monitor needs adjustment;
if so, are there adjustment controls inside the box?
Thanks,
logical: John C. Schwebel
physical: HR2F030
AT&T Bell Labs
480 Red Hill Rd.
Middletown, NJ 07748
voice: (201)615-4782
electronic: odyssey!jcs
------------------------------
Mail-From: G.ABRAMS created at 21-Mar-87 14:20:42
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 87 11:00:42 EST
From: Herbert Goertzel <goertzel@dca-ems>
Subject: How to get started
To: info-atari16-request @ score.stanford.edu
ReSent-Date: Sat 21 Mar 87 14:20:42-PST
ReSent-From: Info-Atari Moderator <G.ABRAMS@Score.Stanford.EDU>
ReSent-To: info-atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU
I've just purchased a 1040STf with the atari hard disk and the color monitor.
In reading through the messages I discover there is a great deal that I don't
know anything about. Simple things like
a. What is the program that takes the programs included in messages or in
info-atari and decodes them so they can be run? How can I get it?
b. What repositories exist for atari 16 bit information and how do I arrange
to get access?
c. Do you have a distribution list for messages on atari 16 bit info and if
so how do I get added to it?
d. Is there a bibliography of useful books I can track down so I have a chance
of understanding my new box?
e. Do you have a starter kit? I'm reasonably comfortable with my Zenith 248
but a real novice with the ST.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Herb Goertzel (goertzel@dca-ems.arpa)MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/28/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Sat, 28 Mar 87 07:13:51 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 7249; Sat, 28 Mar 87 07:07:38 FIN
Date: Fri 27 Mar 87 19:07:42 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #145
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Friday, March 27, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 145
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: How big is displayed screen on Atare SM124?
Alex's Icons...
Flakey errors with Uniterm17a.
really fast laser printers
VBI Info?
Re: Emacs 3.8b bugs on the way
Extension boards for the Mega-STs?
Re: Flakey errors with Uniterm17a.
Extension boards for the Mega-STs?
Twister
LaserPrinter Memory Requirements
status of Batteries Included
Re: UniTerm V1.7a Problems
UniTerm Info Request
uEmacs38b fixes for ATARI ST - (nf)
NITE feature???
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 87 13:44:38 GMT
From: kodak!ektools!bruce@CS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Bruce D. Nelson )
Subject: Re: How big is displayed screen on Atare SM124?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <162@odyssey.UUCP> jcs@odyssey.UUCP (j.c.schwebel) writes:
>I just bought an Atari SM124 monochrome monitor for the 1040 ST
>and am a little disappointed by the size of the displayed screen area.
> .... are there adjustment controls inside the box?
The reason given by Atari for the small image size is to maintain linearity
of the screen image. Several articles have been published giving instructions
on how to enlarge the image. On my screen, the very bottom line has a
definite curve, but the larger image is nice. I guess it comes down to the
choice between perfectly square pixels or less eyestrain.
Bruce D. Nelson, Sr. Appl. Analyst: Software Maintenance, Production Systems
EASTMAN KODAK COMPANY, 901 Elmgrove Rd., Rochester, NY 14650, 716 726-7890
UUCP: {allegra, seismo}!rochester!kodak!ektools!bruce
ARPA: kodak!ektools!bruce@rochester.ARPA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 87 23:38:23 EST
From: Flash%UMASS.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Subject: Alex's Icons...
To: Info-Atari16@SU-SCORE.ARPA
Anyone else out there have had problems with the ICONLOADER that came
in the spring issue of start?
I got hooked on it, drew up some neat icons. (3.5 floppy, little
campfire for trash, and so on...) and have been using it since.
BUT! I realized, that over the last couple of days, some programs have
mysteriously bombed. I didn't give them much thought. Well, tonight
I tried good ole K-Switch. And guess what? Both FLASH and UNITERM will
crash into several bombs and lock up the system IF you have custom
icons loaded. (I removed LOADICON alone, and all fixed!)
Alex, any idea why this happens? I was able to nail down the problem
by booting only with K-switch and LOADICON and then without LOADICON
alone.
Any chance of getting this fixed? Or is this, being software is a magazine,
no_upgrade_avail stuff?
Now that I got hooked on my new nifty icons, I got to get rid of them,
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
Oh well, that is life.
Rick Flashman
1040 N. Pleasant Street, #381, Amherst, MA 01002. (413) 549-0173
Flash@UMASS.BITNET -or- Flash%UMASS.BITNET@WISCVM.WISC.EDU
R-FLASHMAN on GEnie
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 87 23:29:10 GMT
From: nexus.dec.com!morgan@decwrl.dec.com (Organized religion? Just say NO!)
Subject: Flakey errors with Uniterm17a.
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I love Uniterm17a but...
I have been experiencing a problem with Uniterm17a. With noisy
phone lines I get errors that abort x-modem transfers.
Usually you should get a packet retry, but I'm getting sender errors
and false EOT messages that destroy the integrity of the d/l load.
Any ideas? Should I just use Kermit or Y-modem under Uniterm17a?
I'm using a Hayes compatible modem that has performed well for a year
and still looks good. I don't think there are any switches that need
to be changed in the modem for Uniterm so I have to believe that the
copy of Uniterm is somehow glitched or I am doing something else wrong.
Anyone else had this problem with Uniterm17a??
Mikie?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 87 20:31 EST
From: Rodney <Peck@RADC-MULTICS.ARPA>
Subject: really fast laser printers
To: info-atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
At rensselaer polytechnic institute, they have a Xerox 8700
laserprinter which is now the default printer for the multi-processor
IBM machine that is the main computer on campus.
This printer I believe does at LEAST 30 ppm (printed on both sides).
Thats 30 pieces of paper printed front and back coming out of the
machine in a minute. this is a BIG laser printer though. It's not
going to fit in your office next to your ST...sorry.
(I could be wrong about the speed, but if I remember correctly, it
throws at least 1 page every 2 seconds out. probably 2 pages every 2
seconds...)
(apple laserwriters were depressingly slow as far as I was concerned,
'cause this Xerox was the first laser printer I ever saw.)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 87 21:03 EST
From: Matt Kimmel <KIMMEL%ecs.umass.edu@RELAY.CS.NET>
To: Info-Atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: VBI Info?
X-VMS-To: CSNET%"Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu"
Where can I find information about using the VBI from C? I tried the
VBI handler that came over the network a while ago, but it didn't work.
Where can I find generic or C-specific (or even Pascal or Modula-2-specific)
information about using the VBI? Other than the developer's documentation,
of course; I don't have $300 lying around (Why can't they release the
developer's docs seperately? It would make them a lot of money!)
Thanks!
-Matt Kimmel,
KIMMEL@UMAECS.BITNET
KIMMEL%UMAECS.BITNET@wiscvm.ARPA
KIMMEL@ECS.UMASS.EDU
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 87 08:13:58 GMT
From: mnetor!utzoo!utgpu!water!watnot!watrose!jafischer@seismo.css.gov
Subject: Re: Emacs 3.8b bugs on the way
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Regarding the posting of Emacs 3.8b... version 3.8f is up on
Compuserve. Has anyone downloaded it?
--
- Jonathan Fischer (jafischer@watrose.UUCP)
or ...watmath!watrose!jafischer
------------------------------
Date: 23 MAR 87 11:20-N
From: ZRFA1%DS0RUS51.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
To: INFO-ATARI16 @ SU-SCORE.ARPA
Subject:Extension boards for the Mega-STs?
I am sorry, if this message is the second time on the list.
I have allready sent it some time ago, bet never seen it on
the digests we get on bitnet sites.
In an interview with a german magazine Shiraz Shivij said
that Atari has finished the development of a board with the
68881 on it. Does somebody (Neil) know when this board will
be available, and which languages are going to support it.
In german Atari advertisements the board is allready cited.
In the same interview Shiraz Shivij said that they have a
LAN-board for lokal area networking in a Vax environement.
Does somebody know what software is used (TCP/IP, Decnet,...)?
Is it possible to use more than one board in one machine?
Are there any more boards planned?
Ulrich Lang (ZRFA1@DS0RUS1I)
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 05:46:41 GMT
From: kodak!ektools!bruce@CS.ROCHESTER.EDU (Bruce D. Nelson )
Subject: Re: Flakey errors with Uniterm17a.
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I _finally_ got a copy of Uniterm 1.7a and have experienced 2 problems so far...
1) Oftentimes, as soon as the remote modem answers, Uniterm exits back to the
desktop.
2) Ymodem times out after the host has sent the filename block.
Anyone else seen these problems?
Bruce D. Nelson, Sr. Appl. Analyst: Software Maintenance, Production Systems
EASTMAN KODAK COMPANY, 901 Elmgrove Rd., Rochester, NY 14650, 716 726-7890
UUCP: {allegra, seismo}!rochester!kodak!ektools!bruce
ARPA: kodak!ektools!bruce@rochester.ARPA
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 10:57:52 GMT
From: DS0RUS51.BITNET!ZRFA1@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Subject: Extension boards for the Mega-STs?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I am sorry, if this message is the second time on the list.
I have allready sent it some time ago, bet never seen it on
the digests we get on bitnet sites.
In an interview with a german magazine Shiraz Shivij said
that Atari has finished the development of a board with the
68881 on it. Does somebody (Neil) know when this board will
be available, and which languages are going to support it.
In german Atari advertisements the board is allready cited.
In the same interview Shiraz Shivij said that they have a
LAN-board for lokal area networking in a Vax environement.
Does somebody know what software is used (TCP/IP, Decnet,...)?
Is it possible to use more than one board in one machine?
Are there any more boards planned?
Ulrich Lang (ZRFA1@DS0RUS1I)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 87 09:53 EST
From: Chris Jones <clj@SAPSUCKER.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: Twister
To: Info-Atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
> From: ihnp4!inuxc!iuvax!franco@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
>
> I am not sure why the authors of twister set their formatter
> to 400k when 410k can easily be achieved. The following hacks to the
> executable will change twister to a 410k twister:
>
> The single occurrence of HEX 0320 should be changed to 0334
> The single occurrence of HEX 0640 should be changed to 0668
> The single occurrence of HEX 0050 should be changed to 0052 (in third
sector)
I'd feel better about doing this if some explanation were included about what
this is supposed to accomplish. Otherwise, I can't tell if this is something on
the order of "For a real high-energy drink, substitute naptholene for the orange
juice."
(I guess from looking at the numbers that this causes cylinders 80 and 81 to be
used, but I'd rather hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak).
I also have not noticed a measurable speedup after formatting a DS disk with
twister.
I've been reading and writing VIP Professional workspace files which are about
100K bytes
long, and I do have reboot.prg in the auto folder to disable write verification.
I
haven't done enough experiments to say for certain that there is no speedup,
however.
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 14:07:55 GMT
From: appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu (Marc L. Appelbaum)
Subject: LaserPrinter Memory Requirements
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Here is a copy of a message I recieved from Art Morgan:
Memo Laser Printer Image Memory Requirements
Date 22 March 1987
>From Art Morgan
Project Gutenberg
Atari Corporation
To Marc Appelbaum
The horse's mouth that you refer to may actually be a
horse's ass :^). I believe the confusion stems from my
diagram of the Atari ST Desktop Publishing System, which
shows the Atari MEGA ST4 (4 meg) as the image-processing hub
of an IDEAL Atari desktop system.
In reality the memory requirements of a letter-size
page image is 954000 bytes, well under 1 meg. Here are the
memory requirements for the paper types supported by the
Atari SLM Laser Printer:
Paper Dimensions Memory
LETTER 2400 dots by 3180 lines 954000 bytes
LEGAL 2400 dots by 4080 lines 1224000 bytes
A4 2336 dots by 3386 lines 988712 bytes
B5 2016 dots by 2914 lines 734328 bytes
The above requirements do not apply to Dave Staugas'
printer emulator, which uses a character generator "banding"
technique requiring around 32 Kbytes of effective image
memory. That's why Dave's emulator can run on an Atari 520
or 1040 ST system.
I hope this clears the confusion. If you feel like
posting a correction to the net using this information,
please feel free to do so.
Best regards,
Art Morgan
Project Gutenberg
Atari Corporation
March 22, 1987
I think this should clear up all the confusion about the memory needed
for the Laser Printer. I would also like to thank Art once more.
--
Marc L. Appelbaum "If life is a game of chess
Arpa:appelbau@topaz.rutgers.edu and you and I are pawns
Uucp:rutgers!topaz!appelbau what happens when we get to
GEnie: M.APPELBAUM the other side of the board?"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 87 13:27 EST
From: Chris Jones <clj@SAPSUCKER.SCRC.Symbolics.COM>
Subject: status of Batteries Included
To: Info-Atari16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU
I ordered Degas Elite from Computer Creations Inc. of Centerville, OH.
Five days later (last Saturday) I got a letter saying that "Batteries
Included has filed for bankruptcy. Degas Elite is therefore not available
at this time." I called several other mail-order places, and, while no
one else used the word "bankruptcy", none of them have Degas Elite, and
they are not receiving shipments from Batteries Included. (I don't recall
who else I called, except that Software Discounters of America was one
of them). It seems that the reports of B.I.'s death are not a total
fabrication, although I continue to hope the truth is a little less
drastic.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 87 22:14:41 GMT
To: info-atari16@su-score.ARPA
From: K538915%CZHRZU1A.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu
Return-Receipt-To: K538915@CZHRZU1A.BITNET
Subject: Re: UniTerm V1.7a Problems
Try to get your hands on a copy of 1.7b (my motto: 'Produce new versions
quicker than people find bugs' :-))....the current version is something
like 1.7b 014 (may change with time :-)), I'll be sending a copy of this
to the server in Houston a.s.a.p. (for all those which have been wanting
mouse control of cursor, from edit nr. 11 UniTerm has it). Sorry if there
are problems with XModem and YModem, but its rather hard to find a BAD
line here + a server with XModem.
Simon
K538915@CZHRZU1A.BITNET
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 20:10:01 GMT
From: princeton!phoenix!pupthy!wrs@RUTGERS.EDU (William R. Somsky)
Subject: UniTerm Info Request
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
I find myself in need of a more elaborate terminal emulator than I have
currently been using. UniTerm would seem to fill my needs. However,
1 - I have a copy of UniTerm 1.6g. Is this the latest version? If not,
where can I obtain the latest (compiled) version?
2 - The only documentation I have is for UniTerm 1.4 (Way out of date)
Is there complete documentation for the latest UniTerm version? Again,
where can I obtain this? (Preferrably formatted, I don't have proff)
Please answer by Email. Don't send UniTerm or its docs, but let me know if
and where they are available. I'll then get them from the closest location.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R. Somsky Physics Dept ; Princeton Univ
wrs@pupthy.PRINCETON.EDU PO Box 708 ; Princeton NJ 08544
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 87 17:04:00 GMT
From: mcvax!unido!tub!csch@seismo.css.gov
Subject: uEmacs38b fixes for ATARI ST - (nf)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
A few day ago I posted the following message to comp.emacs. I wasn't getting
any answer til now ... So - I'm posting it here again:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all NETlanders listening to that newsgroup,
My friend Jochen & me have been working on the ATARI-ST & IBM-AT versions
of uEmacs38b. We've done a lot more stuff, than the orig. ones.
i.e. ALL shell-escapes (^XC, ^X!, ^X@, ^X#) now work properly (with either
Beckemeyer-C-shell & Mark-Williams-C-shell ...) and much more enhancements
took place ...
So I've been writing to the author (lawrence@duncan) to ask him how to
get these fixes (and believe me, THERE WERE LOTS OF REAL BUGS ...)
permanently involved into the uEmacs-series. He wasn't answering me till
now, so perhaps someone else in this newsgroup will help me doing this...
Kindest regards
Clemens Schrimpe
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact via:
csch@tub.uucp
from the US: ...!pyramid!tub!csch
from Europe: ...!unido!tub!csch
Bitnet: csch@db0tui6 = tub.bitnet
tel.: +49-30-393-3574
+49-30-332-4015
tlx.: (west-germany) + 186672 rdt d
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 87 18:49:06 CST
From: moore@ncsc.ARPA (Moore)
To: info-atari16@su-score.ARPA
Subject: NITE feature???
Has anyone noticed if NITE.PRG (Moshe Braner, I _think_) causes the disk access
light on floppy drives to stay on? This evening I left a diskcopy going, and
when I came back the light was still on and the copy was (over)done. I've
also noticed this with Simon Poole's Uniterm when I've walked away from a large
file download.
Useful comments are appreciated.
Jim
Moore@NCSC.arpa
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------MAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/29/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Sun, 29 Mar 87 21:46:19 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 2386; Sun, 29 Mar 87 06:13:15 FIN
Date: Sat 28 Mar 87 19:05:29 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #146
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Saturday, March 28, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 146
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: Ramblins...
STart problems
What are the REAL symptoms of folder bug?
Calling Alan Page
Floppy Controller Qestions
New version of MicroGnuEmacs
a new MMU?!?
Re: Twister
520ST Wanted
moderated groups
re: PD RSC editor?
ETERNAL2 Problems
AIM image processing program
Re: a few questions/whatever
Re: Emacs 3.8b bugs on the way
problems with SpaceWars v3.1 posting or Murphy, I hate you!
Re: icon
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 13:39:40 GMT
From: ihnp4!ihuxi!store2@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Wilcox)
Subject: Re: Ramblins...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <870318220143.00000BBD.AQEH.MA@UMass>, Flash@UMASS.BITNET (Rick
Flashman) writes:
>
> Then of course, there is always your dealer. Find a good one who
> discounts, and then you wont have to sweat it while waiting for an
> UPS truck.
>
A lot easier said than done, even in a large urban area like Chicago. I
wish we had a good local Atari dealer like you that was willing to take
the time and effort to learn Atari repair and sold at a discount.
Kit Kimes
AT&T--Information Systems Labs
...ihnp4!iwvae!kimes
"I'm carrying the weight of all the useless junk a modern man accumulates.
I'm a statistic in a system that a civil servant dominates."
_Running On Ice_ -Billy Joel
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 87 20:05:39 CST
From: moore@ncsc.ARPA (Moore)
To: info-atari16@su-score.ARPA
Subject: STart problems
Quite a few (several) notes have been posted about problems with the most
recent STart magazine (Spring 87); apparently differences exist between the
provided source code and the executables. I posted a note about a week ago
inquiring if anyone had REBOOT and TWISTER working from that disk: after
several notes back and forth, Jeff (Makaiwi%cory.Berkeley) pointed out that
re-compiling REBOOT increased the size of the executable some (7????) bytes:
apparently just the amount of code required to set the verify flag OFF (my
original problem).
Hope this is more than useless...
Jim
Moore@NCSC.arpa
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 18:13:39 GMT
From: ihnp4!drutx!tlz@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (ZrustTL)
Subject: What are the REAL symptoms of folder bug?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Please explain, at the risk of repeating this on the net,
what the symptoms of the "40 folder" bug are. Please, no
guessing, only accurate info is needed on this one. In addition,
a brief explanation of what the source of the problem is would
be interesting. If you feel this info has been beat to death on
the net, email me a reply. Thanks in advance!
Terry Zrust, ..!ihnp4!drutx!tlz
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 19:50:29 GMT
From: ihnp4!homxb!houxm!houxj!wkk@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (W.KAPLOW)
Subject: Calling Alan Page
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Hello, I need to get some information from Alan Page regarding
the bindings he wrote for Beckmeyers Micro-RTX and Megamax.
For those of you who are not Alan Page but know about his whereabouts,
send me mail.
If you happen to be Alan Page, I need to resolve some problems I am having
using your bindings. First, there seems to be a missing op-code in the _exit
routing, looks like this:
_exit:
LINK A6,#0
MOVE 8(a6),-(a7)
/* pterm call*/ #76,-(a7)
TRAP #1
etc....
clearly, there must be an opcode before the #76 (I think it is probalbly a
move.w).
Also, even with the above assumption, the linker complains about fclose.
Even with that removed, the liker is unable to find the RTX calls from
a main program, one of the demos provided.
I did the following after slightly hacking mmrtx.c
mmcc mmrtx.c
mmcc qdemo.c
mmlink qdemo.o mmrtx.oMAILER-DAEMON@WISDOM.BITNET.UUCP (03/29/87)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 ALEN@WISDOM.BITNET... User unknown
----- Unsent message follows -----
Received: from finhutc.bitnet by wisdom.bitnet; Sun, 29 Mar 87 21:48:39 -0200
Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.23b) id 2549; Sun, 29 Mar 87 08:35:55 FIN
Date: Sat 28 Mar 87 19:06:54 PST
Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" <INFO-A16@FINHUTC>
Comments: To: "Distribution List: ;" <INFO-ATARI16>
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.edu>
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #147
To: Alen Goldberg <ALEN@WISDOM.bitnet>
Info-Atari16 Digest Saturday, March 28, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 147
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: UW status report
Cambridge Lisp Performance
So. California Atari users group, midi...
Scientific WP, keyboard-handling, MS-DOS emulator
Notice
Re: Extension boards for the Mega-STs?
Re: DSDD Floppy disk drives
AUTODISK, FLEXCOPY and fast disk formats
Re: Floating Point Benchmarks
Fix for SpaceWar 3.1 posting
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 23:12:47 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!icdoc!mjd@seismo.css.gov (Martin J Davies)
Subject: Re: UW status report
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In the UK the University of Kent have a fully operational
UW. I dont know what staus it is (PD or otherwise) but
hopefully someone at ukc can comment !
I suppose you could try mailing to postmaster!ukc!mcvax....
I have used it and its very very nice
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 87 01:28:27 est
From: bill@ipsa.ARPA (Bill Pase)
To: info-atari16@su-score
Subject: Cambridge Lisp Performance
There was recently some questions about the performance of Cambridge Lisp
on the ST. It's interpreted code was said to be 20X slower than lisps
running on the MAC. To which someone else pointed out that compiled lisp
can be 10 to 100 times faster than interpreted. Anyhow I took the time to
run a couple of benchmarks on Campridge Lisp to see how much faster the
compiled code really is.
The following are a couple of the standard lisp benchmarks. All times shown
are in seconds. The GC time is the same for both compiled and interpreted code.
Interpreted Compiled GC Time
----------- -------- -------
TAK 726 4 0
DIV-ITER 2576 10 10
DIV-REC 1662 12 10
BOYER 10250 64 180
Anyhow, this seems to indicate that the compiler brings about a rather
dramatic seed increase. The times above show increases from 160 to 260
times! I suspect this would make it considerably faster than the lisps
available for other micros. Comparing these to the values shown in the
current issue of Byte for a 8MHZ 286 runing Gold Hill Common Lisp shows
Cambridge Lisp to be about 20% faster.
If we look at the value for BOYER in particular, as it is indicative of lisp
functionality, the numbers for some other lisps are: Gold Hill 77,
Sun 3 Common Lisp 52, Symbolics 10, VAX 750 PSL 43+41. All of these, except
the last, had sufficient memory to avoid garbage collection. All in all,
Cambridge Lisp is fast, its only real lost is that it is limited by the
current 1MB Atari machines. (Something which could well be changed very soon.)
/bill
------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 87 05:38:57 GMT
From: rgoodman@csvax.caltech.edu (Ron Carl Goodman)
Subject: So. California Atari users group, midi...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Sorry everyone has to read this. If you're not in the Southern California
area, you probably want to skip this.
I just discovered that (other than USENET) I am not alone in So. Cal. with
respect to my Atari ST. As it turns out there is a users group in So Cal
that has 4 meetings a month (1 general, 1 8bit, 1 16bit, 1 MIDI). If you are
interested, more info can be had by either calling the club at a computer
store called "Logical Choice For Computing" which by the way is an all
Atari store in North Hollywood at 818-760-0738 or by writing to me via email.
I hope to save some other soul out there who feels alone as I did until today.
Ron Goodman
--
rgoodman@cit-vax.caltech.edu _______ _________ _________ |
rgoodman@cit-vax.bitnet / \#/ \#/ | Pasadena
rgoodman@cit-vax.uucp |alifornia |nstitute |echnology | California
\_______ ___/#\___ of | | U. S. A.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 87 04:57:02 GMT
From: regan@gvax.cs.cornell.edu (Ken Regan)
Subject: Scientific WP, keyboard-handling, MS-DOS emulator
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
This message is prompted by recent postings on both scientific
word-processors for the ST series and on the way ST keyboard
information is handled. I use the T^3 ("T-cubed" or "T-three")
scientific text-processor on MS-DOS systems, and have
corresponded with its designers (TCI Software Research, 1190-B
Foster Road, Las Cruces, NM, 88001) for several years.
PLUG ON
T^3 is great; two major advantages are the ability to see
mathematics and alternate font styles on-screen as you type, and
to create new symbols for both printer and screen via an
uncomplicated font editor. Multiple-layer lines are treated as
single units, and any number of keystrokes may be saved as a macro.
I've written a 400-page doctoral dissertation and several papers on it.
Even for just ASCII text entry it has the best system
for getting around a document that I've seen. There are no 'modes';
one puts down a visual mark to insert text. To jump forward [backward]
to the next occurrence of a given character, be it a letter, space,
period, or carriage-return, simply hold the right [left] arrow key
down and type the character. This leads right into my main point,
so
PLUG OFF
Two years ago I contacted TCI about the not-yet-out ST and its
CGA-slaying mono graphics screen. The obstacle they mentioned wasn't
any difficulty in porting the code (p-system & IBM Pascal) or working
with GEM/TOS, but the keyboard: then (as now?) it would only store
two (2) key-presses simultaneously. The program uses three-key
combinations copiously (and some fours), so this was no-go.
I called Atari technical staff about this last December, since I'd
like to buy the 1040ST + planned MS-DOS box come June and my tax refund,
and their response was, in two words, "Good point!". Let me add
some tips on what one can do with "n-key rollover" and separate
recording of press and release (the latter I understand the ST's have):
(1) Making sensitive commands difficult to type by mistake:
T^3 uses /DEL/Shift/End (held down in that order) for "delete to end
of document". If you don't release the keys right away,
it will show you what it's about to do in inverse-video,
and if it's a mistake you can cancel the command by hitting <ESC>
(so a fourth key down) before releasing. Such conventions are
universal in the system, applying also to...
(2) Avoiding the display of pop-up menus:
Menus only pop up when the "Menu" key <F9> is released (GEM mouse programmers
take note), but are "there" when it is pressed. E.g. to mark the whole
paragraph the cursor is in and move it to the end of a document, one
can type the "chord sequence" /Left-Arrow/Shift/CR/, /F1/CR/,
/Shift/End/, /F9/+\/m\/+\. No menus appear, saving one screen-write
time, and the "mark from previous shift-CR (paragraph start) to next CR",
"jump to document-end", and "move block to cursor position" commands
are executed quickly and "silently". I won't explain the keys' meanings
(except the numeric-keypad <+> means "Accept")--the point is
that one gets all the virtues of both menu-based and command-based WP
systems combined. (Record the whole thing as a macro, calling it "pmove"
if you wish, and invoke it by typing /Ctrl/pmove to save more time later.)
(3) "Chording" has lots of other applications: music from QWERTY input,
combining key-commands with the mouse buttons in arcade-style games,
you name it.
So, aside from saying "Atari--please take note", let me ask some specific
questions:
I. Do currently-made ST's have the n-key feature (under TOS)?
II. If not, can the keyboard hardware be addressed in a fashion
that will still make programs portable within the ST line?
Will the Megas have the feature?
III. Will the planned 8088 box emulate the full IBM BIOS means of
handling the keyboard?
Neither I nor the TCI people have been able to try T^3 with Paradox's
MS.EM to see whether the key-combos work.
I, and also the T^3 people, will appreciate and consider all replies.
Mail me at 'regan@gvax.cs.cornell.edu' (Arpanet) or for Bitnet,
'regan%amvax.tn.cornell.edu@CRNLCS.BITNET' whatever you may
not wish to post. Thanks,
Dr. Kenneth W. Regan,
Center for Applied Math.,
211 Sage Hall, Cornell Univ.
Ithaca, NY 14853-6202.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Mar 87 19:00:36 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Notice
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
It is with some regret that I inform the net that Alex Leavens is no longer
with Atari. We are actively looking for someone to take his place on the
net and otherwise. In the meantime, mail sent to Alex makes its way to my
mailbox.
--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris / CIS: 70007,1135 / Delphi: NEILHARRIS / GENIE: NHARRIS
WELL: neil / Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
------------------------------
Date: 24 Mar 87 18:46:53 GMT
From: imagen!atari!neil@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Neil Harris)
Subject: Re: Extension boards for the Mega-STs?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <8703231057.AA11904@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, ZRFA1@DS0RUS51.BITNET
writes:
> In an interview with a german magazine Shiraz Shivij said
> that Atari has finished the development of a board with the
> 68881 on it. Does somebody (Neil) know when this board will
> be available, and which languages are going to support it.
From what I hear, the 68881 board was simply built to show what could be
done for the Mega ST using the expansion bus. If we plan to use it as a
product, it's news to me. Sounds like the sort of product that would be a
perfect opportunity for a third party vendor to sell.
--
--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation
UUCP: ...{hoptoad, lll-lcc, pyramid, imagen, sun}!atari!neil
BIX: neilharris / CIS: 70007,1135 / Delphi: NEILHARRIS / GENIE: NHARRIS
WELL: neil / Atari Corp. BBS 408-745-5308 / Usually the OFFICIAL Atari opinion
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 87 04:02:49 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: Re: DSDD Floppy disk drives
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
[]
Apparently, the DSDD 3.5" drive is the upcoming standard (now starting to
take over the IBM-PC world).
Plea to Atari: Please discontinue the bundling of the 520ST with the
single-sided drive. That device is obsolete, and the existence of two
disk formats in the ST world is a pain. (Not to mention that all SW
that is to be distributed has to be broken up into those puny 360K pieces...)
Current owners of SS drives should be given a reasonably-priced upgrade path.
Waiting for an ST-microBernoulli connection (20Meg on a 5" removable disk)...
(and/or a SCSI jack in the back of the MegaST...)
- Moshe Braner
PS: If my most cynical guess is right (Atari happens to be stuck with a huge
inventory of SS drives...) then I hope this plea will be heeded some time in
the future.
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 87 22:37:22 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: AUTODISK, FLEXCOPY and fast disk formats
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
[]
I didn't think AUTOCOPY and FLEXCOPY would work with floppy disks formatted
with the 'fast' format (the one with a bad tenth sector). But turns out
they do. The speed improvement is about two-fold for reading - great for
autoloading of a lot of stuff into RAMdisk on boot.
To copy a disk to a 'fast' disk with FLEXCOPY, you have to format the
destination disk with FORMATER.PRG _before_ you run FLEXCOPY. And BTW,
FLEXCOPY will let you back up such a disk relatively easily. (STCOPY won't.)
Note that FLEXCOPY and AUTOCOPY use the Rwabs() call
to read and write the disk, so any disk format that looks normal as far
as Rwabs() calls are concerned (i.e. has the normal _logical_ sectors)
should work with those programs. STCOPY reads whole tracks at a time, I
believe (for that awesome speed reading _standard_ disks), and therefore
has problems with 'fast' disks. Rwabs(), on the other hand, reads sector
by sector (roughly - anybody knows _exactly_ what it does?), even when
reading a _lot_ of consecutive sectors in one call. Half the speed
(on standard disks) but more flexible.
I do not have a copy of 'twister', so I don't know if that is also
compatible with AUTOCOPY and FLEXCOPY. If _you_ can, please try it out
and tell us all.
- Moshe Braner
Anybody knows the status of MINIX/ST?
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 87 04:55:34 GMT
From: braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner)
Subject: Re: Floating Point Benchmarks
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
[]
Thanks to Sandra Loosemore for posting the interesting benchmarks.
Here are results of the Savage benchmark for Megamax C on the Atari ST
(8 MHz 68000):
time error
Single precision: 146 4.3E+01
Double precision: 496 8.5E-07
Double precision, with 32081: 119 2.2E-08
The Megamax math library (written in C, using sloppy algorithms) is even
slower than the (in)SANE numeric package on the Apple Macintosh, as
exemplified by Aztec C (353 seconds). In comparision, Absoft FORTRAN
on the Amiga did it in 77 seconds (could someone post the Absoft time
on the ST?), Alcyon C v4.14 (libm) clocked in at 73 seconds, and HP BASIC
(also on an 8 MHz 68000) managed 45 seconds. (Any data for Mark Williams C?)
The 32081 case needs explanation: This is _still_ using the Megamax library,
but doing the +-*/ primitives on a 32081 FPU mounted as a peripheral and
running at 4 MHz. This speeded it up by a factor of 4. (Why the error is
smaller I don't know.) That is _not_ the best the 32081 can do. I have
tested, on my ST, an optimized log() function written in assembler language
for the 68000/32081 pair by Hal Hardenbergh of Digital Acoustics. It took
520 microseconds. Extrapolating from there, assuming the other functions
will be as fast, predicts that the Savage benchmark time would be 7 seconds,
or as fast as an IBM AT! Alas, Hal will not disclose his code for the other
functions, and I do not have the time right now to write my own, nor to
replace the 32081 with a 68881 (anybody done that?).
What can be done to improve the performance of your ST in number-crunching?
- Use Absoft FORTRAN
- Use the recent version of Atari/DRI/Alcyon C
- Pressure your favorite C compiler vendor to get it together
- Hack a 32081 onto your ST and
write your own (optimized in AL) math library
- Hack a 68881 onto your ST
- Get a MegaST and a 68881 card (Fall 1987?)
- Wait for the Atari TT (_Supposedly_ Winter 1988)
- Get the MSDOS add-on box for the ST (when?) and add an 8087
- Give up and get a Mac II or a "Turbo Amiga" (big $$$)
- Get an Atari PC (8 MHz 8086) and add an 8087
(Turbo C is here 8-) - Atari PC not yet...)
The 68881 is now about $140, similar in price to the 8087. (Finally!)
It has the transcendental functions built-in (the 32081 does not).
It is designed as a coprocessor for the 68020, although it _can_ be
connected to the 68000 as a peripheral (a lot slower). Is the 68881 card
for the MegaST (rumored) going to have a 68020 too? Is Atari _ever_ going
to build a machine suitable for number-crunching? Keep tuned for the
responses from Atari...
- Moshe Braner
Quiz: what computer comes standard with a mouse but no keyboard?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PS: here is the C code I used:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
#include <stdio.h>
#include <math.h>
#include <osbind.h>
long sysclk;
gettime() {
sysclk = *((long *)0x4BA); /* System variable: 200 Hz counter */
}
main() {
int i, iloop;
double a;
long start, end;
Supexec(&gettime); start = sysclk;
a = 1.0; iloop = 2499;
for (i=0; i<iloop; i++)
a = tan(atan(exp(log(sqrt(a*a))))) + 1.0;
Supexec(&gettime); end = sysclk;
printf("\007time = %f\n", (double)(end-start)/200.0);
printf("error = %e\n", a-2500.0);
------------------------------
Date: 24 Mar 87 06:49:18 GMT
From: ubc-vision!alberta!sask!long@BEAVER.CS.WASHINGTON.EDU (Warren Long)
Subject: Fix for SpaceWar 3.1 posting
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Ah well, such is life. The very first posting in
comp.binaries.atari.st is glitched. Anyways, since I have the
original, I just ran a diff and ...
How to fix it up:
Take the uuencoded file and delete all lines in front
of the begin.
line 976 should begin with: M'++.+V this is correct
line 979 should begin with: M$Y #= this is correct
delete lines 977,978
insert the following lines after line 976:
M% O8.F-,$C4D?4,2.&@[O;#1]004P -V0Q#OO TG:\&#/,;@=T;V,U!W"X'
M'D '=J-@=WXWKYSPW':K8'<.=F,7^=!.X]TOOP/SVX3=&V_N-P 2*/Z$W1[S
M:W+D 9P^\N<!9&&W9?SZ9?K5 $R@^%G\UF&W'8@#D#7M@_);B-V&%.^ XH?8
M78K=IJC<-^\>*#XVO\?8C8SUIX.@>#)VBV/W..#SGH'BY-A]C]WXI)^P[[3G
the resultant file should have lines 976 to 981
looking just like this:
M'++.+V<\P!XDL1R(T#FW++'1@I"4"$F*,,URO@? O A)DY!$B=4BPWP*2;"0
M% O8.F-,$C4D?4,2.&@[O;#1]004P -V0Q#OO TG:\&#/,;@=T;V,U!W"X'
M'D '=J-@=WXWKYSPW':K8'<.=F,7^=!.X]TOOP/SVX3=&V_N-P 2*/Z$W1[S
M:W+D 9P^\N<!9&&W9?SZ9?K5 $R@^%G\UF&W'8@#D#7M@_);B-V&%.^ XH?8
M78K=IJC<-^\>*#XVO\?8C8SUIX.@>#)VBV/W..#SGH'BY-A]C]WXI)^P[[3G
M$Y #=S_?.37)TQ!X +XP/W^12\8%$]OGQ. 1>CE,'KUH'B4HY</[C>$^Q&A
I wanted to get this out in a hurry and haven't had time to test
it yet. (I mean download it to the ST). But, these changes do
result in a file that is identical with the one I originally sent
in.
Of course, nothing is complete without a bug report:
If null-gravity is selected the speed of the asteroids
seems a little random. It is not. It is set to the
speed of a stable orbit of the most recently player
game where the gravity was not zero. (is this a bug
or a feature?? :^)
Warren
--
=-=-=-=-=-Warren Long at University of Saskatchewan, Canada-=-=-=-=-
Home: 78 Carleton Dr.,Saskatoon, Sasakatchewan, S7H 3N6
Phone: (306)-955-1237
=-=-=-=-=-U-Email: ...!ihnp4!alberta!sask!long -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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