oyster@uwmacc.UUCP (04/07/87)
Simon asks about what "the net" wants (or doesn't want) in a downsized
Uniterm. Well, as far as I'm concerned, a good subset would be an expert
mode (e.g. cut down on help and dialog features) VTxxx emulator with
Kermit capability. I could live with XMODEM, since it's faster, and
almost as universally available (to me) as Kermit, but you get the idea.
No Tek emulation, no fancy stuff; just a stripped down workhorse for the
computer-literate user.
--
- Joel Plutchak
uucp: {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!oyster | BIX: plutch
ARPA: oyster@unix.macc.wisc.edu | BITNET: plutchak@wiscmaccpmt@sbcs.UUCP (04/08/87)
I think a VT100-only emulator would be very useful. Currently, there
isn't any GOOD vt100 emulator in public domian, and I'm sure it's needed.
A lot of us would like to be able to call up a VT100 emulator real fast
(for mainframe loggin in) and putting a VT100 em in a ramdisk would serve
that purpose; hence the need for a small size emulator.
Also, include the 'send BREAK' capability in the emulator.
I've seen 2 VT100 emulators in P.D. (one from Atari Corp.), but both
are QUITE buggy.
--
CSNET:pmt@sbcs.csnet
UUCP :{allegra, hocsd, philabs, ogcvax}!sbcs!pmt
In the path of our happiness shall we find the learning for which
we have choosen this lifetime.hannu@tut.UUCP (Koivisto Hannu) (04/08/87)
>Article 1814 of comp.sys.atari.st: >Subject: Re: UniTerm size >Date: 6 Apr 87 22:33:19 GMT >References: <8704061724.AA17217@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> >Simon asks about what "the net" wants (or doesn't want) in a downsized >Uniterm. >No Tek emulation, no fancy stuff; just a stripped down workhorse for the >computer-literate user. As my opinion, the best thing in UNITERM is Tek-emulation, PLEASE DON'T drop it. You can easily get several terminal emulators (smaller) without tek-mode ( ex. IC). I feel that UNiterm is good just as it is, I use it all the time. The other choise (small and without tek-mode and without kermit etc.) could be: - VT100 as desk accessory (just like the original VT52) BTW. Has anyone found ,that UNITERM doesn't work with original (and old) Tektroni PLOT-10 graphics library (in VAX/VMS). I used an old program (made 1982) and it didn't work. Then I tried with others: Mac's TEKALIKE works Mac's VersatermPro works Televideo terminal+ Datatype graphics didn't work Selanar graphic terminal works Hannu Koivisto hannu@tut.fi (new internet address) mcvax!tut!hannu (old uucp style, still OK) also via bitnet: koivisto@fintuta.bitnet
sandra@utah-cs.UUCP (04/09/87)
Rather than all argue about what options we find useful and which ones we don't, how about making all of these options, well, optional? This is how we handled the extras in MicroGnuEmacs. In the machine-specific include file, there are about a half dozen things that you can #define or not, that control whether or not certain features are compiled in. The rather huge mouse support package for the Amiga version was made optional in this way, for example, since there is a significant population of users who would never use it and who would prefer an editor that doesn't chew up quite so much memory. -Sandra Loosemore (sandra@utah-cs.uucp, sandra@cs.utah.edu)
john@viper.UUCP (04/11/87)
In article <4468@utah-cs.UUCP> sandra@utah-cs.UUCP (Sandra J Loosemore) writes: >Rather than all argue about what options we find useful and which ones >we don't, how about making all of these options, well, optional? This is >how we handled the extras in MicroGnuEmacs. In the machine-specific >include file, there are about a half dozen things that you can #define >or not, that control whether or not certain features are compiled in. ...... > >-Sandra Loosemore >(sandra@utah-cs.uucp, sandra@cs.utah.edu) Not a bad idea Sandra IFF the sources were being passed around. Last time I checked, Uniterm was a binary-only distribution product. Unless I'm mistaken, the author wants it to remain that way. (I, for one am greatful enough to have the program in the first place. I don't plan on pestering him for the source... If he had wanted to give it out, I suspect we would have it already and this entire discussion would't exist..) --- John Stanley (john@viper.UUCP) Software Consultant - DynaSoft Systems UUCP: ...{amdahl,ihnp4,rutgers}!{meccts,dayton}!viper!john
manis@ubc-cs.UUCP (04/12/87)
In article <4475@utah-cs.UUCP> sandra@utah-cs.UUCP (Sandra J Loosemore) writes: >Given the straightforward nature of .o files on the ST (at least as produced >by the Alcyon assembler), it should not be too difficult to implement a >dynamic linking routine.... In fact, this is something that's on my >queue of things to hack on. PSL (Portable Standard Lisp) under Un*x >and VMS has something similar, that allows you to link in arbitrary >code into a running Lisp system. I did the VMS implementation myself, and >I expect the same approach would work on the ST: you run the files through >the linker to resolve external references between them, then load the >result into memory and return the addresses of the global symbols it >defines. One of the few astonishingly nice features of VMS is that it has a linker and runtime library which support any known language. This is true in UNIX as well, if you define "any language" to mean "any language whose compiler is based on pcc" (i.e., C, f77, and Pascal). This is emphatically not so on micros (more's the pity). For instance, my preferred programming environments are Mark Williams C and TDI Modula-2, both of which have their own linkers. Mark Williams C can handle (with limitations) DRI object modules, but it's not very nice. On the other hand, Simon uses Personal Pascal (I believe), so I wouldn't want to depend on his compiler generating code which my linker can process (even in some compatibility mode). I wish there were a standard ST linker format (I used to do a lot of computing on IBM 360's and 370's, using a brain-damaged operating system called MTS; it was common to take object code from an OS/VS or CMS system, link it with assembler I/O code, and execute with no errors.) However, there isn't. I respect Simon's decision not to distribute source code. In that case, an executable program format is fine. One other point: the ST does support a system call called Pexec. There's no reason that optional utility modules could not be supported as stand-alone programs. (I've got a tangle of programs which run together under Micro-Emacs that way). I don't see how to structure a terminal emulator this way (though maybe the Kermit and Xmodem packages might be candidates), but it is a good solution in general. ----- Vincent Manis {seismo,uw-beaver}!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!manis Dept. of Computer Science manis@cs.ubc.cdn Univ. of British Columbia manis%ubc.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1W5 manis@ubc.csnet (604) 228-6770 or 228-3061 "BASIC is the Computer Science equivalent of 'Scientific Creationism'."
rjd@nancy.UUCP (04/13/87)
In article <282@tutor.tut.UUCP> hannu@tut.UUCP (Koivisto Hannu) writes: > > >The other choise (small and without tek-mode and without kermit etc.) could be: > - VT100 as desk accessory (just like the original VT52) > >BTW. Has anyone found ,that UNITERM doesn't work with original (and old) > Tektroni PLOT-10 graphics library (in VAX/VMS). I used an old program > (made 1982) and it didn't work. Then I tried with others: > Mac's TEKALIKE works > Mac's VersatermPro works > Televideo terminal+ Datatype graphics didn't work > Selanar graphic terminal works > We use PLOT-10 extensively (unfortunate, but true ... trying to talk the powers that be into DI3000 ;-) ) here at the lab, and we have never had any problems with it driving the TEK emulator on UniTerm. This is true for both old versions of PLOT-10 and newer hacked versions. Incidently, for comparison, the UniTerm Tektronix emulator appears to be about twice as fast as the Versaterm Tektronix emulator on a MacIntosh, and about 9 times as fast as the Tektronix emulator on a VT240. (Although this latter result is not surprising as the VT240 appears to convert the Tektronix commands to REGIS commands before drawing them on the screen ... silly, but true...) - Rob DeMillo Brown University - Planetary Science Group UUCP: ...{seismo!harpo}!ihnp4!brunix!rjd BITNET: GE702025@BROWNVM SPAN: BRNPSG::RD CompuServe: 73537,2737 ------ "...I am not so sure what you want me for! Either your machine is a fool, or me..." -- "WarGames", CSN