IHLS400@INDYCMS.BITNET.UUCP (06/16/87)
I didn't ever see this come across the net, so I am re-posting it
just on the off-chance that someone out there finds something of
interest in it. I think it may have been slaughtered in SCORE's
failure.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fri, 22 May 1987 15:50 EDT
Holly Lee Stowe <IHLS400@INDYCMS>
Disks and other gossip
Good disk/bad disk:
I have Sony disks (both SS and DS) and DS Fuji disks. I have not tried
to format the SS disks as DS. Something tells me that the minute I
try to do so and put something important on there, it will fail.
"Pessamistic", I hear you say. Yup. I backup my backups on important
stuff. I can get the SS Sony's for $13.95 and the DS for $18.95 at
a local store here in town, the Game Preserve at Glendale mall. I
got the Fuji's when I ordered something from Computability in Milwaukee
for $18.95, although you probably only get that when you place an order.
The Fujis come with a nice little plastic case at the moment. (I
should warn you that since I have only had the ST about 4 weeks,
I can't really say my disks have gotten a real workout yet...)
For the disk drive survey:
I have a 1040STf with the built-in (and occasionally noisy) DS/DD drive
that I bought used from someone in NJ. The system is about a year old.
I also have an SF354 SS/DD drive that I bought for $99 (yes, $99) at a
local dealer here called ComputerWorks (one of only two stores locally
that carries Atari...even B.Dalton's and Waldenbooks have stopped handling
Atari books it seems). I also bought my SH204 from ComputerWorks for
$600.
(Insert the usual disclaimer regarding financial affiliations here.)
(Heck, I pay *them* for the privilege of saying this stuff!)
Here's the gossip part I promised you in the subject: As I understand,
the Megas are in production now. I was told that they are hoping to
have them on the shelves in July/August... BUT... no blitters in them.
The development of the blitter has been suffering from a case of low
bidder contracting and may not even be a working prototype yet... so
the first Megas will be without. I don't know what kind of upgrading
will be arranged on the first bunch, but if I could make my guess, I
don't think it will be a major concern for Atari, since I don't think
they will sell all that many of them without the blitter. (Gossip
says the blitter right now is slated for the fall...don't start holding
your breath yet.) More memory and a detached keyboard alone will not
sell the Mega. End of gossip. Start of opinion: Atari seems intent
on shooting themselves in the foot one way or another. I'm glad that
there are a lot of people out there who will support what Atari will
not through PD and any other methods they can find for their madness.
I love my new ST. I love my old 800. I would love them more if I had
some confidence that Atari Corp. was going to be around in 5 or so years,
but I guess by then my ST will be obsolete and I can start all over again
anyway, so why am I worried? End of opinion.
Note to anyone at Atari who is interested: It seems to me that the users
involved in this group, and the groups on CompuServe, GEnie, etc. are a
loyal bunch who feel some obligation to assist Atari in being the best
company it can be regardless of whether that loyalty exists to help support
their own interests. Unfortunately a great deal of the time, Atari just
doesn't seem to be listening. Soothing words and promises do not work
forever when unfulfilled. I have no quarrel with Atari myself, but I
see users posting the same arguments over and over again with the same
results (or lack of same) from Atari. What's wrong with this picture?
When the majority of users bemoan not being able to boot from their hard
drives or being limited to 40 folders consistently, does it not occur
to someone there that there is a NEED here that Atari could fulfill?
Heaven forbid, Atari might even be able to make some money at it! Instead
Atari tells us that almighty Atari sees no need for more than 40 folders.
Well, gosh... if Atari says it, it must be true. Right? Wrong. The
customer may not always be correct, but they are always right. We are
willing to wait and even pay for the quality we feel we deserve. Atari,
we are sitting here BEGGING to be used... offering our souls to make our
systems and your products better and more useful. Will you still respect
us in the morning?
-Holly
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.............................
There is no man so assured that he cannot be made to feel
slightly oafish if a subtle and complex woman puts her mind to it.
John D. MacDonald
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.............................jimomura@lsuc.UUCP (06/19/87)
In article <8706162240.AA07496@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> IHLS400@INDYCMS.BITNET.UUCP writes: >I didn't ever see this come across the net, so I am re-posting it >just on the off-chance that someone out there finds something of >interest in it. I think it may have been slaughtered in SCORE's You know, up here at 'lsuc' I haven't seen much in the way of Net postings in this group at all. Has it really been that quiet or have we lost a feed route somewhere? ... >(Insert the usual disclaimer regarding financial affiliations here.) >(Heck, I pay *them* for the privilege of saying this stuff!) > >Here's the gossip part I promised you in the subject: As I understand, >the Megas are in production now. I was told that they are hoping to >have them on the shelves in July/August... BUT... no blitters in them. >The development of the blitter has been suffering from a case of low >bidder contracting and may not even be a working prototype yet... so >the first Megas will be without. I don't know what kind of upgrading >will be arranged on the first bunch, but if I could make my guess, I >don't think it will be a major concern for Atari, since I don't think >they will sell all that many of them without the blitter. (Gossip I'm glad that they are going ahead with sales without the Blitter. My opinion is exactly 180 degrees from most people. To me the Blitter is the *least* important thing about the Mega ST's. The other improvements are paramount and make the ST a "real computer". The biggest problem was the lack of a real expansion buss. We have software capable of multi-tasking/multi-user applications, but the *hardware* was too locked it to make good use of this software. I'm not just talking about OS-9 (as some of you would expect of me :-), but rather a *few* possibilities such as, I believe, Idris (a Unix clone), and I think Beckenmeyer's multi-tasking Shell among the *existing* software. Who knows what might turn up if the hardware is available? Would you like to use Ciarcia's Imagewise frame grabber? Well you'll have to unplug you're modem as it now stands. Annoyances are deadly to machines like this. Moreso, the lack of a batterybacked real-time clock on the old ST's. I hated this so much I bought a Navarone clock. Everybody who knows me personally has heard that I don't like this clock. There's no viable alternative yet as far as I'm concerned. I just wish I could get my current ST upgraded to take the new clock! No sign of an upgrade in this respect. The 40 folder limit could be cleaned up without a Blitter. As I understand it, it will be. 4 Meg. RAM. I *NEED* IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm doing animation and 1 Meg. is not enough. I'm probably going to buy a 4 Meg. upgrade soon, but I don't like the product I know about because I'd rather they added a battery backed real-time clock to the same board so I can get 2 upgrades in one (where did we hear about the clock before? :-). I have a suspicion that CAD-3D needs more than 1 Meg. to be of much use to me also, but I'm not sure. All I know is that I haven't been able to complete even 1 project with CAD-3D since I bought it. I keep getting a "too complex for CAD-3D" error. This may be a problem with the algorythm or it may just be an implimentation error/limit, or it could be lack of RAM. I've just bought version 2.0 of CAD-3D and I hope in part it isn't a RAM problem because I still want to hold off on the RAM purchase for a while. On that expansion bus again: Wouldn't it be nice if Atari could pry loose one of Yamaha's really hot X series synth chip sets? How do you want to add it to the ST? Why wouldn't it go nice in an expansion bus? Say, can't do that with the current ST's can you? The separate keyboard I don't care about--doesn't hurt too much I guess. (I'm really different from most other people aren't I? :-) The Blitter? I forget it. Well, don't forget it because a lot of people want it, but I really don't care much about it at this stage. Just GET THE MACHINE OUT NOW! >says the blitter right now is slated for the fall...don't start holding >your breath yet.) More memory and a detached keyboard alone will not >sell the Mega. End of gossip. Start of opinion: Atari seems intent >on shooting themselves in the foot one way or another. I'm glad that >there are a lot of people out there who will support what Atari will >not through PD and any other methods they can find for their madness. >I love my new ST. I love my old 800. I would love them more if I had >some confidence that Atari Corp. was going to be around in 5 or so years, >but I guess by then my ST will be obsolete and I can start all over again >anyway, so why am I worried? End of opinion. Well, with an expansion bus you could continue the upgrade path of the ST and ... (yes, I hear people telling me to shut up. :-) >Note to anyone at Atari who is interested: It seems to me that the users >involved in this group, and the groups on CompuServe, GEnie, etc. are a >loyal bunch who feel some obligation to assist Atari in being the best Actually, I'm not really like that. I go with what I feel is good. Whether it's Atari or not--whether it's OS-9 or not. The fact that I have an ST or that I run OS-9 generally *means something*. Although I'm already pushing the limit on the ST and feeling confined, I'm not quite ready to switch. Having my '020 machine hooked up to it solves a lot of problems and opens new avenues. For a while I was experimenting with storing files on the QT to get around the 40 folder limit on the QT. I found 1 piece of software on the ST that couldn't take data at over 2400 baud and I used this as a lowest common denominator type limit which should be surmountable. I just haven't had the time to fix that one piece of software. I could also link the disk IO via SCSI ports, but I'm avoiding that for now because I have other priorities. >company it can be regardless of whether that loyalty exists to help support >their own interests. Unfortunately a great deal of the time, Atari just >doesn't seem to be listening. Soothing words and promises do not work >forever when unfulfilled. I have no quarrel with Atari myself, but I >see users posting the same arguments over and over again with the same >results (or lack of same) from Atari. What's wrong with this picture? >When the majority of users bemoan not being able to boot from their hard >drives or being limited to 40 folders consistently, does it not occur >to someone there that there is a NEED here that Atari could fulfill? >Heaven forbid, Atari might even be able to make some money at it! Instead >Atari tells us that almighty Atari sees no need for more than 40 folders. >Well, gosh... if Atari says it, it must be true. Right? Wrong. The >customer may not always be correct, but they are always right. We are >willing to wait and even pay for the quality we feel we deserve. Atari, >we are sitting here BEGGING to be used... offering our souls to make our >systems and your products better and more useful. Will you still respect >us in the morning? Interesting. I seem to be in complete disagreement with you, except that we hope and wish that Atari will be responsive to customers (which I feel they have been and are to the best of their ability and thus seem in disagreement there) and I think we agree that Atari should go ahead with the Mega without the Blitter for now. Ah, life is wonderful in the variety of forms it takes. The world is the richer for it. Cheers! -- Jim O. PS: (I also didn't feel the 800 was all that wonderful. I bought a Color Computer. How's that for Yin/Yang differences? :-) -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 ihnp4!utzoo!lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
K538915@CZHRZU1A.BITNET (06/22/87)
ihnp4!utzoo!lsuc!jimomura Jim Omura writes: >In article <8706162240.AA07496@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> IHLS400@INDYCMS.BITNET.UUCP ... >>don't think it will be a major concern for Atari, since I don't think >>they will sell all that many of them without the blitter. (Gossip > I'm glad that they are going ahead with sales without the Blitter. >My opinion is exactly 180 degrees from most people. To me the Blitter >is the *least* important thing about the Mega ST's. The other improvements >are paramount and make the ST a "real computer". The biggest problem >was the lack of a real expansion buss. We have software capable of Even if the Blitter would have not been the most important thing about the Mega ST's, you can't denie that it would have helped the ST with something which is painfully slow (even if not so slow as on a 8086): screen I/O, a lot of applications could have profited from the facilites a Blitter would have offered. But what I think is far more important: a working Mega-ST production with Blitter would have given us some measure of the technical competence of Atari (not just in the design itself, but also in turning a design into a REAL product). As the situation presents itself, it would be foolhardy to expect TT's and EST's from a company that just manages to hack a battery backed-up clock into its original design. More so the Blitter farce even shows the amount of incompetence in the management of Atari, any self respecting company would have given the project up a long time ago instead of pouring more money into it. ... > The 40 folder limit could be cleaned up without a Blitter. As I >understand it, it will be. As I understand, it will NOT be. The only thing Atari has admitted, is that they have/are/will be working on a new version of GEMDOS for release some time in the future, as far as we know this could just be another proof for the amount of competence in HYPE that Atari has. BTW a more supicous person than I am, could suggest that Atari has been systematically avoiding the publishing of fixes: HD boot fix: been available Atari internally for a long time, but probably will never be distributed. HDB 2.3 is probably better anyway! 40 folder fix: FOLDRXXX was obviously procduced as a quick 'save our face' operation after GEMBOOT was made avaiable, with no intent on ever really distributing it (a nice touch was the way Atari leaked it out that they had a fix via Atari Germany, just to complain later it had been pirated!). > Interesting. I seem to be in complete disagreement with you, >except that we hope and wish that Atari will be responsive to customers >(which I feel they have been and are to the best of their ability and >thus seem in disagreement there) and I think we agree that Atari should >go ahead with the Mega without the Blitter for now. Yes, Allan and Landon do a good job of answering techincal questions, I'm sure THEY won't have trouble finding jobs, when Atari collapses. Simon Poole K538915@CZHRZU1A.BITNET
dyer@atari.UUCP (Landon Dyer) (06/26/87)
> As I understand, it will NOT be. The only thing Atari has admitted, is > that they have/are/will be working on a new version of GEMDOS for release > some time in the future, as far as we know this could just be another proof > for the amount of competence in HYPE that Atari has. > BTW a more supicous person than I am, could suggest that Atari has been > systematically avoiding the publishing of fixes: You could claim I'm lying, but we REALLY ARE doing a re-write. And it's harder than it sounds to make bug fixes to code that's: (1) everywhere; (2) in ROM; ... but we don't expect you to sympathize. :-) > HD boot fix: been available Atari internally for a long time, > but probably will never be distributed. HDB 2.3 > is probably better anyway! It has been done since September of 1986. I have been trying to push it out the door ever since. Not my fault -- put 22 cents to work and send a letter to Leonard Tramiel. > 40 folder fix: FOLDRXXX was obviously procduced as a quick > 'save our face' operation after GEMBOOT was > made avaiable, with no intent on ever really > distributing it (a nice touch was the way > Atari leaked it out that they had a fix via > Atari Germany, just to complain later it had been > pirated!). It was produced as an "Oh, of course!" in a couple of hours, and finished in mid-Febuary of 1987. I don't give a damn about saving Atari's face -- but I *do* care about the quality of the software on the ST. Again, it is stalled somewhere in management, so get out your book of stamps and start writing.... -- -Landon Dyer, Atari Corporation {sun,amdcad,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dyer The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those BUSINESS of Atari or the AI software that has taken over my brain. IS Yow! I am waiting for my warranty-expired interrupt! HELL
K538915@CZHRZU1A.BITNET.UUCP (06/29/87)
Landon Dyer writes: >> As I understand, it will NOT be. The only thing Atari has admitted, is >> that they have/are/will be working on a new version of GEMDOS for release >> some time in the future, as far as we know this could just be another proof >> for the amount of competence in HYPE that Atari has. >You could claim I'm lying, but we REALLY ARE doing a re-write. And >it's harder than it sounds to make bug fixes to code that's: > > (1) everywhere; > (2) in ROM; > >... but we don't expect you to sympathize. :-) Oh yes I do sympathize! Landon, I didn't want to imply that anybody at Atari would lie about such a thing, it's just that the history of the fixes for the ST series would suggest that even if completed, a GEMDOS rewrite would never be distributed. Sorry for the (not Atari related) bad temper I was in when I wrote that message. >> HD boot fix: been available Atari internally for a long time, >> but probably will never be distributed. HDB 2.3 >> is probably better anyway! >It has been done since September of 1986. I have been trying to push >it out the door ever since. Not my fault -- put 22 cents to work and >send a letter to Leonard Tramiel. Is there any sensible marketing reason for this??????????????????????? Simon Poole K538915.CZHRZU1A.BITNET PS: I still think Atari is able to do a good job of customer support, as I've mentioned before, the September 86 fix to HDX was by my dealer a month later! (This didn't stop the people here from selling HD's with the old version!)