engst@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst) (12/18/87)
Has anyone had any experience with BMS and the package they sell that allows
one to use a cheap IBM-PC style drive to hook to an Atari ST? I'm
interested but would like more details about the BMS hardware and the prices
and the difficulty involved in hooking everything up (oh and what other
hardware, power supply, case, etc is needed)? Thanks . . .
Adam
engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu
(the offer still stands - send me any information on disk drives of any type
and I'll summarize to the net)
(my 1040 internal drive will read files, programs etc alright most of the
time now, but often gives the "Drive A: not responding . . ." error when
writing to the disk - needless to say I have write protected most of my
important disks.)wheels@mks.UUCP (Gerry Wheeler) (12/19/87)
There have been two requests for hard disk info recently, and since I can never figure out how to email to bitnet, I'll post a common answer to both... > I am interested in building a hard disk system based on something like > the BMS ACSI to SCSI DMA converter. I would like to know what one would > need besides the board (such as cables and type of hard disk system) to > get a disk going. Also, what other boards are there like the BMS board? > > Bob > also known as UD138985 at NDSUVM1. > Has anyone had any experience with BMS and the package they sell that allows > one to use a cheap IBM-PC style drive to hook to an Atari ST? I'm > interested but would like more details about the BMS hardware and the prices > and the difficulty involved in hooking everything up (oh and what other > hardware, power supply, case, etc is needed)? Thanks . . . > Adam > engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu I built my hard disk system this way because I already had most of the parts. If you're going to buy everything from scratch, then the cost may exceed that of the commercial hard disks. However, the home-built type may be more flexible. All the hard disks work like this: (this paragraph is open to correction by more knowledgeable people!): the DMA output of the ST, known as ACSI, feeds to an adapter board. This board converts the protocol to SCSI, a standard disk interface protocol. The SCSI cable connects to the disk controller. The Adaptec 4000-series controllers is usual. The controller then connects to the disk. If you look inside the commercial units, I think you will find this arrangement packed in there. The disk drive can be almost any unit that uses the st406 or st512 interface. (Is that the right number? Anyway, same disks used by IBMs.) You may be able to use a disk with an SCSI interface by omitting the Adaptec controller, but I haven't seen it done. By the way, the BMS adaptor board includes a battery operated clock, and I haven't had to set the time since I put it together. So, total parts are: ACSI cable from ST to adaptor, adaptor board ($140), 50-conductor SCSI cable to controller, controller board ($125?), 34- and 20-conductor cables to hard disk, disk ($300?), power supply ($50?), cabinet. As mentioned in the posting, adaptor boards are available from Berkeley Microsystems. I have also seen the adaptors from the commercial drives available. Adaptec controllers are available from BMS and others. Power supplies and cables can usually be found locally. By the way, the Adaptec controller will support 2 hard disks. They must be very similar, as there are some jumpers on the board which affect both drives. Just make sure your power supply has enough reserve if you plan to go this route. My system started out as an outboard drive for IBM PC's. It included the Adaptec controller (possibly damaged), and an Ampex Pyxis 13 10-meg disk, and a blown power supply. I added a new supply, had the controller checked out by Adaptec, bought the BMS board, and voila. I have since upgraded to a Seagate ST238 20-meg drive, and I have enough space and power to add another. (That's what I meant about being more flexible.) If seeing the insides of a computer makes you queasy, don't go this route. If you think you can plug things together, this may be for you. -- Gerry Wheeler Phone: (519)884-2251 Mortice Kern Systems Inc. UUCP: uunet!watmath!mks!wheels 43 Bridgeport Rd. E. BIX: join mks Waterloo, Ontario N2J 2J4 CompuServe: 73260,1043
turner@daisy.UUCP (D'arc Angel) (12/20/87)
in article <3217@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu>, engst@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst) says: > > > Has anyone had any experience with BMS and the package they sell that allows > one to use a cheap IBM-PC style drive to hook to an Atari ST? I'm unless I'm sadly mistaken (and often I am) the BMS board set allows you hook up any ST506 or ST224 (also mistakenly called SCSI) style disks to the ST. The board set will work with disks with or without builtin SCSI controllers. I presently use a single 64Mbyte disk with my BMS board set but in the past I have hooked up 2 drives to the same board set and it worked with no problems -- Laissez les bons temps rouler - Queen Ida ...{decwrl|ucbvax}!imagen!atari!daisy!turner (James M. Turner) Daisy Systems, 700 E. Middlefield Rd, P.O. Box 7006, Mountain View CA 94039-7006. (415)960-0123
fyl@ssc.UUCP (Phil Hughes) (12/22/87)
I have tme BMS controller. It works fine (once we found the bugs but
that was almost a year ago). The only question I have about it is does
it actually cost less. You need to buy the interface and controller
($250, I think), then get a drive, box and power supply.
No problems putting it together but when you are done you probably
could have bought a Supra or Atari drive.
--
Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155 (206)FOR-UNIX
uw-beaver!tikal!ssc!fyl or uunet!pilchuck!ssc!fyl or attmail!ssc!fyliarocci@eneevax.UUCP (John Iarocci) (12/23/87)
In article <3217@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst) writes: > >Has anyone had any experience with BMS and the package they sell that allows >one to use a cheap IBM-PC style drive to hook to an Atari ST? I'm I have seen the various replies to this original query and am amazed that nobody even mentioned an alternative to BMS. Well... here goes: Being the owner of two BMS kits (one for a Micropolis 1325 on a 1040, and one for a Seagate ST506 on a 520+), I have seen how Berkley Microsystems has improved over the last year or so. I think their present-day package is well put together and easy to build. I have only had two reservations about the kit: 1) The non-standard format used on the disks, and 2) THAT SHORT CORD!! Until a recent (fairly) Atari Fest in the area, I was under the impression that the BMS kit was the only one out there. At this fair, I was introduced to ICD, Inc. (I don't know what it stands for.) and their ST Host/Controller Kit. Among its advertised features are: - built in battery backed-up clock - 7 SCSI devices and daisy chaining - 100% compatible with Atari and Supra - built in verify and error retry They answered my "short cord" problem with their three (3) foot cord! Anyway, I was quite impressed with their presentation and brochures. (If only I had known about them earlier...) Finally, I'm not really knocking BMS. I'm letting you people out there know there is an alternative. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ John Iarocci I am not affiliated with any company Aerospace Engineering mentioned in the body of the message University of Maryland above. College Park, MD, USA UUCP: [seismo,allegra]!umcp-cs!eneevax!iarocci ARPA: iarocci@eneevax.umd.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --
ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu (Lee Dickey) (12/24/87)
In article <945@ssc.UUCP> fyl@ssc.UUCP (Phil Hughes) writes:
]
] I have the BMS controller. It works fine (once we found the bugs but
] that was almost a year ago). ...
What were the bugs?
If I were to buy such a board, I would probably *never* find the bugs.
--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdickey@watmath.UUCP UUCP: ...!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
ljdickey%water@waterloo.edu ljdickey@watdcs.BITNET
ljdickey%water%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.ARPAturner@daisy.UUCP (D'arc Angel) (12/25/87)
From article <945@ssc.UUCP>, by fyl@ssc.UUCP (Phil Hughes): > > I have tme BMS controller. It works fine (once we found the bugs but > that was almost a year ago). The only question I have about it is does > it actually cost less. You need to buy the interface and controller > ($250, I think), then get a drive, box and power supply. > No problems putting it together but when you are done you probably > could have bought a Supra or Atari drive. > -- > Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155 (206)FOR-UNIX > uw-beaver!tikal!ssc!fyl or uunet!pilchuck!ssc!fyl or attmail!ssc!fyl agreeded, I alway felt the advantages of the BMS solution were: 1. It came with a battery backed-up real time clock 2. It supports two hard disks on the same controller 3. If and when i wanted to upgrade to a larger disk, i just unplugged the old one and plugged the new one in as to cost, be creative, most cities support at least one good used electronic surplus/salvage store -- Laissez les bons temps rouler - Queen Ida ...{decwrl|ucbvax}!imagen!atari!daisy!turner (James M. Turner) Daisy Systems, 700 E. Middlefield Rd, P.O. Box 7006, Mountain View CA 94039-7006. (415)960-0123
ravi@duke.cs.duke.edu (Ravi Subrahmanyan) (12/26/87)
>] I have the BMS controller. It works fine (once we found the bugs but >] that was almost a year ago). ... > >What were the bugs? >If I were to buy such a board, I would probably *never* find the bugs. > I've been using that package for a year, and the only bug I've encountered was in the clock setting software, which would cause the clock to freak in February.. it was quite amusing actually, and it was fixed immediately (Chris would actually tell you the location to patch in the executable if you didnt want to wait for him to send you a new disk). No other bugs as far as I know, -ravi
weber_w@apollo.uucp (Walt Weber) (12/29/87)
In article <1147@eneevax.UUCP> iarocci@eneevax.umd.edu.UUCP (John Iarocci) writes: > >Being the owner of two BMS kits (one for a Micropolis 1325 on a 1040, and one >for a Seagate ST506 on a 520+), I have seen how Berkley Microsystems has >improved over the last year or so. I think their present-day package is well >put together and easy to build. I have only had two reservations about the >kit: 1) The non-standard format used on the disks, and 2) THAT SHORT CORD!! > >Until a recent (fairly) Atari Fest in the area, I was under the impression >that the BMS kit was the only one out there. At this fair, I was introduced >to ICD, Inc. I, too, am a VERY SATISFIED customer of BMS. My opinions of the ICD offering differ somewhat from yours, however. I saw ICD's product at the Worcester AtariFest, and while I think they have an acceptable product, I believe that their methods are less than acceptable. My local Atari dealer (exclusively Atari for the last 4+ years) tells me that ICD has been present in the 8-bit marketplace for a considerable time. My contact at BMS, however, told me that ICD initially contacted BMS with a great deal of interest in the BMS board, and assured BMS that ICD was not going to get into that business. A short while later, ICD released a board which has a strong resemblance to the BMS board with a few modifications. Note that I am NOT advocating sole-sourcing of add-ons for the ST line -- I just do NOT like the idea of an "established" company staying out of the ST marketplace until (or unless) they can piggyback off of the efforts of a fledgling operation by misrepresenting their intentions. As to your first reservation (above), BMS follows the Atari standard of only allowing 4 partitions per drive, while Supra established an "extended format" which permits 8 partitions per drive, but is NOT compatible with Atari's AHDI. ICD follows the Supra extended format. I think if you go back to Tom Love's excellent article in a back issue of Current Notes you will find that BMS did not have a disk driver of their own, and that users would just use Atari's formatter (format.prg?) and driver (ahdi.prg). ...walt... -- Walt Weber PHONE: (617) 256-6600 x7004 Apollo Computer GENIE: W.WEBER Chelmsford, People's Republic of Massachusetts
toml@xerox12.UUCP (Tom Love) (12/29/87)
re: bugs in bms package -
i've been running a bms-based hard disk system since last january.
the only bugs i have ever encountered were software bugs. recall that
the bms adapter board has a battery-backed clock. it seems that chris
rhodin, the guy who runs bms and does the development, made a very small
but important error in the clock-setting program (settime.prg, i think -
the one that goes in your auto folder) which screwed up on february.
actually it was kind of humorous. never affected hard disk use at all.
he found the problem feb. 1 1987, and had updated software out in the mail
to everyone shortly thereafter.
i'm mainly posting this to stop what could be a harmful rumor. i am a
very satisfied customer of berkeley microsystems. their product is
reasonably priced, in my opinion, and their telephone support is superb
(of course, before they had any documentation, it had to be! :-)
the bms-100 adapter has evolved somewhat; it is supposedly laid out more
attractively on the board, it is pretty well documented, the software has
all been rewritten. it's a pretty mature product now.
if there were hardware bugs, i would be interested in hearing about them.
if not, please don't do bms any disservice by spreading such rumors.
one more note: i wrote an article for ST Applications magazine last spring
detailing the construction of a bms-based hard disk system for the ST.
it covers all the details of a single-HD system, and vaguely addresses
the double-HD system too (at that time i only had one HD). it appeared
in march 87, i think. at that time i offered to mail out copies, in
either electronic or paper form, to anyone who requested one. that
offer still stands. note that the electronic form omits the graphics
(done on my cad system at work, not on the st), so if you want the whole
thing you should buy the magazine or request the paper copy from me.
if you want electronic, mail me at the address below; if you want paper,
send me a self-addressed stamped envelope to the postal address below.
tom love
Xerox Engineering Design and Documentation Systems
Leesburg, VA 22075 (703)729-8000
{cornell, kodak, ritcv, rutgers, cmcl2, llxn}!rochester!
rocksanne!xrxns!toml
{rocksvax, sunybcs}!
rt 2, box 277
sterling, va 22170
tom love
xerox Engineering Design and Documentation Systems
leesburg, va 22075 (703)729-8000
{cornell, kodak, ritcv, rutgers, cmcl2, llxn}!rochester!
rocksanne!xrxns!toml
{rocksvax, sunybcs}! kemp@unsvax.UUCP (John G. Kemp) (01/06/88)
Hello Tom, Very nice of you to offer to send copies of your BMS article over the net. I would love to have a copy as I am considering going this route to a hard drive for my 1040 ST. ADDRESS: kemp@unsvax Thanks in advance, John Kemp UNLV CSC Dept. Las Vegas, Nevada
engst@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu (Adam C. Engst) (01/12/88)
Sorry about posting this, but my mailer kept bouncing the mail I sent.
Tom Love,
Thanks for your offer of sending the BMS article you wrote. Since I am
definitely going to be setting one of the systems up soon, I would appreciate
a copy. Thanks a lot!
Adam
--
Adam C. Engst engst@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu
pv9y@cornella.bitnet
"If it's not interactive fiction, it's not fun."