COMSAT@MC.LCS.MIT.EDU (Communications Satellite) (03/18/88)
FAILED: TETHER at MITLNS.MIT.EDU; Funny reply from foreign host after sending message.
Last reply was: {554 Unable to deliver mail to given recipient(s)}
Failed message follows:
-------
Received: from OZ.AI.MIT.EDU by MC.LCS.MIT.EDU via Chaosnet; 17 MAR 88 14:35:31 EST
Received: from XX.LCS.MIT.EDU by OZ.AI.MIT.EDU with Chaos/SMTP; Thu 17 Mar 88 14:32:39-EST
Received: from Score.Stanford.EDU by XX.LCS.MIT.EDU with TCP/SMTP; Thu 17 Mar 88 14:34:08-EST
Date: Thu 17 Mar 88 10:11:20 PST
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V88 #124
From: Info-Atari16 Digest <Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.EDU>
Sender: Info-Atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU
Errors-to: Info-Atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU
Maint-Path: Info-Atari16-request@Score.Stanford.EDU
To: Info-Atari16 Distribution List: ;
Reply-to: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu
Info-Atari16 Digest Thursday, March 17, 1988 Volume 88 : Issue 124
This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield
Today's Topics:
Re: WARNING ! Atari ST owners look away now....
Re: WARNING ! Atari ST owners look away now....
Re: Why the Atari ST "flame" was posted up...
Re: Bad placing of Atari ST binarie
Re: Computer Mail Order, Inc. looooong shipping delay
Re: Magazine programs (was Re: I need help!)
Re: status of minix port to the ST
alcyon question
Sending a break from FLASH
Re: Standardization
Explorer?
Re: Changes/fixes to OS
Re: Abaq OS, what is it ?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 88 20:46:57 GMT
From: uop!mrapple@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (Nick Sayer)
Subject: Re: WARNING ! Atari ST owners look away now....
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1346@alliant.Alliant.COM>, rosenkra@Alliant.COM (Bill Rosenkranz) writes:
> In article <463@csvax.liv.ac.uk> sqrkl@csvax.liv.ac.uk writes:
> >In article <12045@brl-adm.ARPA>, JEMCCABE%MTUS5.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU writes:
> >
> >> Oh come on now... This group is NOT for computer bashing.
> []
I agree. Please keep this out of comp.lang.pascal. Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Sayer | Packet Radio: N6QQQ @ WA6RDH | CMS: SYSOP@STOKTON%STOCKTON
uucp: ...!sdcsvax!ucbvax!ucdavis!uop!mrapple | Fido: 161/31
Disclaimer: You didn't REALLY believe that, did you?
cat flames > /dev/null
------------------------------
Date: 10 Mar 88 04:09:44 GMT
From: agate!web1d.berkeley.edu!c60c-6bh@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Hurley (Ahhz))
Subject: Re: WARNING ! Atari ST owners look away now....
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
-----------Line Eater Quiche -----------------------
Let's just face it .....
the Amiga is 'The Right Thing'
the Atari isn't
unless you own one, in which case, everyman learns
to love his executioner given time.
This is done with my consent, my opinion, my arogance 8^)
why be so serious ?? why not just wait till the desktop Cray comes out,
and then discuss which is superior.
In the final analysis ... the world still turns.
In other words it doesn't matter !
good bye good life. <zzapp>
+----- Disclaimer : ------------------------------------------+
I would never hurt one of God's creatures ... EXCEPT FOR FUN!
------------------------------
Date: 10 Mar 88 00:13:13 GMT
From: uop!exodus@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (G.Onufer)
Subject: Re: Why the Atari ST "flame" was posted up...
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <478@csvax.liv.ac.uk>, sqrkl@csvax.liv.ac.uk writes:
> > I didn't ask for it. You are certainly entitled to your
> > opinions, but WHY would you post this to comp.sys.atari.st?
> Anyway, if you want to see a GOOD machine, forget the Amiga, Macintosh and
> Atari ST - buy an Acorn Archimedes...I've been programming in ARM (RISC) code
> for a couple of months now and it is BEAUTIFUL (so's the Archimedes - puts
> all other machines below a MicroVAX 3500 to shame).
I wouldn't worry too much about this guy. He mailed me after I flamed him...
in fact, he is still mailing me. His opions are semi-unusual:
-Anything that resembles a C-Shell is terrible
-If it isn't VMS DCL, it isn't usable
-VMS is the most user-friendly system available (or close to it)
-GnuEmacs isn't a decent editor
-The Acorn is the world's best computer-- [ME: Where is it?]
-Unix commands are too cryptic to be usable
-BASIC (albeit a modern semi-structured BASIC) is the programming language
of choice [ME: Why not use PASCAL?]
-C is a terrible language, see above
-There are no decent compilers for the ST [Ever see MWC 2.0 or above?]
-Only his opinions mean anything
See? No problems here. Obviously not a hacker.
[These opions have been re-worded but contain the same thoughts he expressed
to me. My comments are in brackets containing the word "ME"]
He does claim an Archimedes obtains 4 MIPS for somewhere around 800 pounds
sterling... is that around 1600 dollars? I forgot the exchange rate!!
G.Onufer
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 88 13:29:59 GMT
From: pacbell!att-ih!att-cb!clyde!watmath!water!ljdickey@AMES.ARC.NASA.GOV (Lee Dickey)
Subject: Re: Bad placing of Atari ST binarie
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <11400012@silver>, ferneau@silver.bacs.indiana.edu writes:
>
>I find it hard to believe that someone is going to take the time to
>archive, uuencode and upload a trojan horse program to the net.
I can not cite particular examples, but I think that such
things have gone around.
--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu
ljdickey@watdcs.BITNET
ljdickey@water.UUCP ...!uunet!water!ljdickey
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 88 09:08:57 GMT
From: linus!alliant!rosenkra@husc6.harvard.edu (Bill Rosenkranz)
Subject: Re: Computer Mail Order, Inc. looooong shipping delay
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <3338@chinet.UUCP> saj@chinet.UUCP (Stephen Jacobs) writes:
>
>...There are enough delayed
>ST availability complaints around that I'd believe that Atari is promising
>but not shipping to everybody (doesn't sound like something they'd do...)
with the way atari is clamping down on retailers, and the fact that they
currently have NO SH204 hard drives in stock, i suspect the problems are
with atari and it's primary distribution chain and not the retailers.
-bill
------------------------------
Date: 5 Mar 88 03:24:36 GMT
From: phoenix!mpsimon@princeton.edu (M. Patrick Simon)
Subject: Re: Magazine programs (was Re: I need help!)
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <393@nunki.usc.edu> rjung@sal21.usc.edu (Robert Jung) writes:
>In article <1200@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu> seitz@cory.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Matthew Eric Seitz) writes:
>>In article <3548@cup.portal.com> Harold_Hank_Hagquist@cup.portal.com writes:
>>>You can get the math formula program you want on the ELF BBS (219)2888722
...
>> Unless I'm mistaken, this program is copyrighted by STart and should
>>not be available on a BBS. If you want the program, you should look into
>>buying the back issue from STart. It is an excellent program.
>
> While we're on the subject of type-in magazines...
>
We were not on the subject of type-in magazines. The program in question
came in binary and source versions on the disk included with the magazine.
The source was not printed in the magazine itself, so the only way to
get the program was to buy the copyrighted disk, which should not have
been copied to a BBS for downloading.
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Bitnet: rjung@castor.usc.edu "Who needs an Amiga?" = == =
> = == =
> Power WithOUT the Price = == =
> ===== == =====
> Just because it's 8-bits doesn't make it obsolete. ==== == ====
--Patrick Simon mpsimon@phoenix.princeton.edu
3/4/88
Q. Will piracy kill the Atari St?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
disclaimer: not even an original notion here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dole-Bush in 88!
------------------------------
Date: 5 Mar 88 10:06:07 GMT
From: uop!exodus@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu (G.Onufer)
Subject: Re: status of minix port to the ST
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Will it be realtively easy to use pipes with MINIX? Open pipes, etc??
G. Onufer
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 88 09:44:36 GMT
From: linus!alliant!rosenkra@husc6.harvard.edu (Bill Rosenkranz)
Subject: alcyon question
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
does anyone know if it is possible to write inline assembler with
alcyon? seems like i've tried all the ways i can think of but none
seem to work. it's really not a big deal, just curious....
-bill
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 88 18:30:26 GMT
From: trwrb!mdf@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Mark D. Falleroni)
Subject: Sending a break from FLASH
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
How does one send a Break signal to an AT&T DTDM set from within FLASH???
Thanks,
Mark Falleroni
Ogden Engineering Office
TRW Defense Systems
Ogden, Utah
------------------------------
Date: 9 Mar 88 09:00:05 GMT
From: linus!alliant!rosenkra@husc6.harvard.edu (Bill Rosenkranz)
Subject: Re: Standardization
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <880307110110123.AHJN@Mars.UCC.UMass.EDU> Sleeple@UMass.BITNET writes:
>Well I am new to the Atari world....so pardon me if I am greatly out
>of line. We have all been waiting anxiously waiting for the ROM upgrades
>from Atari. Why don't we, as responsible programmers, take this great
>moment and standardize! Yes...silly as it may seem, now is probably the
>best time to do it. With the new ROMs, may programs will have to be
>reworked anyway, so why not standard certain things while we are at it.
[examples deleted...]
> .....think of the power this would give the average
>user...
>Perhaps standardization of programming techniques, ie...rules, that
>programmer should stick to in order to keep compatability within different
>programs......
>I know...I'm just asking for too much....so flame me if you really want..
to a great extent, or at least a large extent, the manufacturer and OS
designer really should define the standard. Ok, now that im awake and realize
who am im talking about (atari corp./DRI) this is obviously asking far too
much.
first of all, atari has virtually no control over the OS: i don't even
think they have source to much of GEM/TOS/GEMDOS/... it's difficult even
to know the proper NAME of the OS and it's parts, let alone specific
details. atari was not remiss in leaving a fair amount of discression
up to developers and warned continously about using "non standard" or
reserved things (sys variables, etc.). this puts the onus on developers
to make sure versions of the OS do not effect their program's behavior.
this is fine for most programs that do little or no "outside" things
but not the case for programs relying on quasi-documented "features".
what atari could do is realize that certain programming really helps
refine their machine and try to accomodate the developers. they are,
however, really not set up to do that and instead choose to respond with
"ha, i told you so!".
you are naive to think that programmers will magically band together
and standardize the way things are done, especially those of us in it
for the $$$.
i really don't know how further standardization will give you any more
power. for all its problems , GEM ain't too bad.
-bill
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 88 17:19:45 GMT
From: nunki.usc.edu!sal21.usc.edu!rjung@oberon.usc.edu (Robert Jung)
Subject: Explorer?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
Is it just me, or is Atari Explorer late?
--R.J.,
a David Ahl fan
B-)
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 88 14:10:32 GMT
From: necntc!linus!philabs!sbcs!bnl!drs@AMES.ARC.NASA.GOV (David R. Stampf)
Subject: Re: Changes/fixes to OS
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <1720@ssc-vax.UUCP> benoni@ssc-vax.UUCP (Charles L Ditzel) writes:
>In article <1115@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu>, c60b-at@buddy.Berkeley.EDU (John Kawakami -0^0-) writes:
>> calls. I think we need more adherence to the "rules". But we
>> also need clearer rules and bug free functions (or at least docu-
>> mented bugs). Of all the 'new' machines, the ST has the worst and
>> most difficult to find manuals.
>Ok...the question of the day...
>If we have such a hard time getting bugs fixed like the 40 folder
>problem now, what will happen when Atari releases the 68030 Unix(/Idris ?)
>machine AND THE Abaq system? :-)
Must be a newcommer - You are not going to see 68030 machines nor (I bet) an
Abaq out of atari any time soon. (Soon in a Geologic sense). See the past history of
PC clones, hardware upgrades, (Face it folks - the Mega is a 1040 in a new box -
period), documentation and the like. Anything with a 68030 or a Transputer will put
them in the same price range as the big boys and Atari will be crushed - they just
have no concept of support and quality.
They should have stuck to the game market - that seems to be the direction that
the ST is heading in anyway. Have you seen one of their Blessed Retailers lately -
all games and very little else of substance. Even the cheerleading magazines are
looking a little grey around the gills lately.
< dave
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 88 13:58:32 GMT
From: necntc!linus!philabs!sbcs!bnl!drs@AMES.ARC.NASA.GOV (David R. Stampf)
Subject: Re: Abaq OS, what is it ?
To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu
In article <438@nikhefh.hep.nl> gert@nikhefh.hep.nl (Gert Poletiek) writes:
>In article <24297@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> wallman-george@CS.Yale.EDU (Natuerlich!) writes:
>>Excuse a question, I am not uptodate at all.
>> Will the Abaq run UNIX ? Which one ?
>>
>
>The OS for the ABAQ (if that's what it will be called: there are rumours that
>there is a Belgian company selling a games computer of the same name -) )
>will be HELIOS. This OS is being written by a british company called
>Perihelion. HELIOS is based on UNIX and on the distributed operating system
>Amoeba developed by A.S. Tanenbaum (you know: the one that did MINIX). Amoeba
>is a capability based distributed operating system, and HELIOS is too.
>
>HELIOS is being written in C and transputer assembler NOT IN OCCAM. Most of
>the system calls of UNIX (V7 and some BSD) are equivalent, though more system
>calls are available to take advantage of the transputer architecture. Those
>system services include spawning processes on remote processors and inter
>process communication (IPC) using a message passing system. UNIX pipes are
>also (I think) implemented on top of the IPC, so pipes can be stretched
>across different computing nodes.
>
>More info can be had from Perihelion or Atari UK (I don't have the addresses
>right now).
>
>
>Gert Poletiek
>
I sent in my $100 to Perihelion to become a registered developer last year and so
far have received only one thin manual - supposedly a system calls manual. I was
so impressed with how close it was to unix that I kicked myself in the butt 12 times,
saved up my pennies for a few months and went out and bought a Mac last week. The
people who developed it may have had Unix at the back of their minds, but they
certainly didn't set a goal for themselves of being source code compatable - in the
way that MINIX is (with V7).
With Ataris track record for getting things out the door (I'm still waiting for the
official Docs, blitter upgrade, rom fixes, PC add on box, a reasonable laser printer)
and the way the workstation market looks today - strict unix compliance, competative
prices and the dominance of a hand full of companies - I just don't see the world
jumping over to the people who brought you pong. Nor do I see the major software
houses jumping to support a computer which cannot provide a simple secure computer
system - There is no hardware support for protecting memory space - the manual says
something like - support for multi-tasking is an interesting exercise - Shudder.
Anyway, anyone who believes that perihelion will be a force in the workstation market
any time this century, is welcome to contact me. Maybe we can transfer my developer
status.
By the way - it was sooooooo nice to be able to walk into a bookstore and pick up
$100 worth of books that told me everything that I want to know about the Mac. If I
only could have done that a year ago for the ST (as was promised by Neil).
< dave
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
**************************
-------