UD140469@NDSUVM1.BITNET (03/29/88)
[a line for the line eater]
I'm sorry for that subject, but announcements/showings from Atari (like the
one that follows) are begining to strike this strange and somewhat
off-balanced chord in me... he he he... oops, sorry. What follows was taken
from the newest issue of Infoworld (March 28th?) with some heavy editorializing
added by your's truly. About the only thing that lends it any credence is the
fact that it wasn't reported in the "Robert X. Cringly" rumor column--it's
apparently a for-real "ghost" (or at least vapor) sighting. Here goes:
"...Atari Corp. revealed its long-rumored 68030 Unix workstation March 18 at
the Hannover Computer Show in West Germany. The workstation, which is reported
to be already in the hands of 50 developers [!... strike one up for Atari!], is
scheduled for sale in Europe [and North America?????] by the end of 1988, Atari
said [I don't know if I should even dignify that with a snide remark].
"The as-yet-unnamed [maybe the LT, for Lirth Two, of course...] workstation
has a VME bus with five slots, according to Shiraz Shivji [do the 1040's have
blitters yet, Shiraz? Will the '030 EVER have a VME bus?], Atari's [VP] for
research and development. The base machine includes 4 megabytes of RAM, a
1-mbps Starlan port, two serial ports, one SCSI port, and a 60-megabyte
internal hard disk.
"Shivji said an optional graphics card will offer CGA, EGA, and VGA graphics
to go along with a [optional, I suppose] 1,280-by-960 high-resolution monitor
that is also under development.
"Shivji said the base machine will cost less than $5,000 and operate 50
percent faster than an 80386, with both systems running Unix System V, Version
3.1 [notice that they didn't say specifically that Unix was included for
$5,000...].
"According to Atari president Sam Tramiel, the company is not targeting
the multiuser market, but rather is seeking to offer a powerful workstation
for professional users, particularly in technical areas.
"Atari also showed prototype 44-megabyte removable hard disk drives, which
will be offered for the company's 286, 386, and 68030 machines [WHAT 286, 386,
and '030 machines? For that matter, what 8086 (or 8088?) machine?], plus a
CD-ROM drive.
"A write-once/read-many (WORM) drive that will allow users to write data and
audio [oh give me a break!] onto compact discs should be ready within a year,
Shivji added.
"Atari Corp., 1196 Borregas Ave., Sunnyvale, CA 94088; (408) 745-2000
If I seem cynical, I'm sorry (well, not really). It's not that I don't
believe that it can't be done, but rather that I don't believe that Atari can
do it, especially in the time frames that the article mentioned. I just wish
for once that Atari had come to a show with demo models ready to send out to
dealers... I will give them one thing--if it's true that they've already
gotten the machine to some developers, they've done something right. However,
if they wan't to prove their sincerity (something that the Tramiel clan is very
much lacking in) they can a) have in-depth reviews of the machine (with pics &
tech. info) in the magazines by early summer; b) have developers advertising
products for them by late summer; and c) show the prototypes at every single
ma-and-pa computer show they intend, instead of showing it in Europe and never
letting North America see it until after it's been shipping in Europe.
Sadly to say, my expectations are low. The only thing on this list I expect
to see within a year (thats March '89) is the ROM drive... I sure hope I'm
wrong, but I doubt it (for you folks at Atari reading the net, sorry I've
heaped so many burning coals on you, especially since y'all aren't responsible
for most of the "management/business" decisions of Atari. Maybe you could pass
the message "on high"?).
Scott Udell
UD140469@NDSUVM1.BITNET
[a line for the line eater]cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (03/30/88)
I agree with Scott that the '030 is some of the best vapor to seep from
Atari in some time (at least they were showing ABAQ's when they started
talking about it). And I would typically dismiss it as a fantasy of some
press release writers at Atari central, with a couple of caveats.
One, building a 68030, 4 slot VME box with UNIX could be done in about
3 weeks (you OEM it from Motorola). Two, unless some massive floodgate
of improvements/fixes for GEM/TOS/GEMDOS etc spew forth we have to
assume that the people Atari is paying are doing *something*. And third,
the crack about it being $5000 is exactly half of what it would cost
to do it today so maybe Atari is thinking by December Mot will have
cut it's prices in half.
The fact of the matter is that *anyone* can build a BUB (Boring UNIX Box).
Mips, Sun, Motorola, and a couple of others would be glad to sell you the
boards to do so. If you OEM a board chances are the manufacturer has a
port of UNIX running on it. And if you can add bitmapped graphics, (of
which there are boards for PC Bus, S-100, MultiBus I/II, VME Bus, NuBus,
and even the GesPac Bus) you can port X11 in a couple of months tops.
Out of the box mass storage is also not a problem with SCSI peripherals,
even various network interfaces can be purchased with the driver software.
It's kind of like being on "name that UNIX system" where the contests
compete by yelling out "I can build that box with 3 boards!"
The bottom line is that lots of people do that and Atari doesn't do it
any better than any of them do it. What we need is someone who is willing
to build a workstation for *people* and not businesses. Apple has come
closest with this, Atari and Commodore have done good follow ons but the
User Interface on both machines needs some polish before my father-in-law
could use it reliably. Of course most computer companies get blinded by
the glitter in the fortune 500. Little do they realize that there are
more secretaries, admins, and paper pushers, at those companies than
engineers. And those people will buy 8008 based computers if they get
the job done for them. If we don't figure this out the Japanese will I
guaruntee it.
--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.rosenkra@Alliant.COM (Bill Rosenkranz) (04/01/88)
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In article <47483@sun.uucp> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes:
->I agree with Scott that the '030 is some of the best vapor to seep from
->Atari in some time (at least they were showing ABAQ's when they started
->talking about it). And I would typically dismiss it as a fantasy of some
->press release writers at Atari central, with a couple of caveats.
[ and alot of other far too rational and realistic observations
about '030/unix workstations to even make the Flying Tramiels
crack a smile (except maybe in private) ]
your analysis is flawless with one minor (?!?!) exception: Atari Corp
is a media event more than a computer company. all this weird pre-pre-pre-
product announcement stuff (CD ROM/WORM (?), 030/unix/$5k, etc. ad nauseum)
is just too outlandish to be anything else. did Sun Microsystems go from
zero to $1 billion with such nonsense? heck no. they had REAL competiton
from the likes of $.5 billion apollo. they acted professionally. atari
REALLY is a game company, catering to the ever increasing sophistication
of the mass market. be honest: if you had $25k to spend on a system, would
you really buy it from atari or from sun/apollo/hp/apple. c'mon, everybody,
look at atari as a source of amusement. don't get upset! just go with the
flow and the mesmerizing chant of P. T. Tramiel....
because most of us DON'T have $25k for a system, we'll still buy their stuff
and you know it!
(please don't take this as an insult, it is not meant to be. i thought you
did a fine job in your analysis. i just wonder if atari is as astute as you!)
-billlharris@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Leonard Harris) (04/02/88)
RE: atari hype as a media event: I don't mind the pre-release vapourware statements but they no longer serve in Atari's best interest. It used to be that pre-show announcements would make Atari's stock climb for a few months and one could make a quick buck (I heard from one source that stock promotion was atari's best venture), but now, no one on wall street seems to care what Atari is planning to make. I guess Atari's track record is catching up with them. /leonard
david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) (04/05/88)
I hate when I do this... You want to really be successful Atari? I think Simon Poole had some of the best comments I've seen along this line. Atari can compete in the really-low-end multiuser world. The 286/386/UNIX market is for real. All Atari has to do is produce two systems: a good 68010 box that competes with the 286-AT clones at about $1500-$2000 complete with serial ports, hard drive, and a *standard* bus; and a 68020 box that competes with the 386 clones at under $3000 complete. Atari can't come in priced any higher or they won't be competitive. Use a real third party UNIX house for software support. Atari only supports the hardware. The systems must have hardware compatibility with standard boards, maybe even a few AT style slots. If Atari is involved in the software development and/or maintenance and/or support, this will certainly fail. They just have to use their low-end manufacturing expertise to produce reliable low-cost hardware and use some of their cash to buy the expertise of a mauture software house. Anything else is doom in the US. 'nuff said. -- David Beckemeyer | "Yuh gotta treat people jes' like yuh Beckemeyer Development Tools | do mules. Don't try to drive 'em. Jes' 478 Santa Clara Ave, Oakland, CA 94610 | leave the gate open a mite an' let 'em UUCP: ...!ihnp4!hoptoad!bdt!david | bust in!"
rnss@ihuxy.ATT.COM (Ron Schreiner) (04/08/88)
In article <206@bdt.UUCP> david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) writes: ... >Use a real third party UNIX house for software support. Atari only supports Mr Beckemeyer, Why don't you put your multitasking OS in ROM and become the third party OS house for the ST NOW!! -- Ron Schreiner AT&T Bell Labs ...ihnp4!ihuxy!rnss
singer@XN.LL.MIT.EDU (Matthew R. Singer) (04/08/88)
Roy Schreiner writes... In article <206@bdt.UUCP> david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) writes: ... >Use a real third party UNIX house for software support. Atari only supports Mr Beckemeyer, Why don't you put your multitasking OS in ROM and become the third party OS house for the ST NOW!! **************************************************************************** If it isn's supported / sold / given away, by Atari, the chances of making large market inroads is quite small. Look at who well Idris, OS/9 (st version), rtx are doing on the ST. And how well things like CPM/86 did on the PC (IBM even sold that, but did not push it). Compare this to say OS/9 on the Coco... Third party operating systems don't seem to sell too well on micro's unless supported strongly by the hardware vendor.