weaver@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Andrew Weaver) (04/28/88)
In article <2771@pasteur.Berkeley.Edu> c162-br@zooey.Berkeley.EDU.UUCP (Warner Young) writes: >In article <303@bdt.UUCP> david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) writes: >>In article <1043@atari.UUCP> good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) writes: >>>Please be aware of the facts before flaming Atari! [:-)] >>[ body of message deleted ] >>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>Roy J. Good >>>Product Development, Atari Corporation >>> >>Well Mr Roy J. Good, I'll flame Atari any time I want, facts or no >>facts! [no :-)] Who are you to tell this net they need FACTS to flame? > >>If I need facts, I'll go over to a real computer news group. This is >>the Atari group remember? Hey did I tell you about the new ABAQ transputer [...] >>David Beckemeyer | "Yuh gotta treat people jes' like yuh >>Beckemeyer Development Tools | do mules. Don't try to drive 'em. Jes' [reverse flame on Dave Beckemeyer deleted] "What we got here is a failure to communicate..." We aren't getting anywhere flaming each other to death. This is getting all of us nowhere. Now I understand Mr. Beckemeyer's point about Atari's attitudes about support and the fact that most of us agree, and Mr. Young's point about how some of us like our ST and just want to be able to use the computer more successfully, but... Now, in defence of Dave, he _can_ flame when he darn well pleases, but he will be held responsible for what he says. And, anyone who really doesn't want to read something from Mr. Beckemeyer, one can use the 'n', 'k' or 'K' keys. 'Nuf said. Enough talk. Enough preaching. I have been thinking, what the ST really needs. And whether or not Atari will supply it (I'd guess not.) Dave, Warner, et. al., here are a few things that would make life easier, if all were treated in a standard way: 1. File Formats. IFF is a good idea, in theory at least. Whether it'd be good for the Atari or not, what do you think? I think that a 'clipboard'-type interface (like the Mac) would be an welcome addition. Could this be achieved in a GDOS-type method, using some sort of metafile, or would the IFF method be easier? I remember Tom Hudson writing in STart magazine how he'd like to see everyone use a standard method of sharing information. Recently something called 'pbm' (for portable bitmap manipulator) came across the net to allow for a generic standard for bitmap manipulation. Would this be usable on the ST? 2. Desktop. How come no one has come out with a better Desktop? Has someone else tried it? Am I missing something? Is it impossible, does everyone else like using shells all the time (I personally use gulaam, which is very nice, but a graphical interface is nice sometimes too...how about a graphical interface over gulaam? Hm... ) We don't need X (although it'd be damn nice) but the desktop, well, it sucks. Really bad. 3. Multitasking. Okay, laugh, ha ha. I know that BDT's RTX works well, or at least from what I've heard, but I guess I would like to see it. I didn't see anything, Dave, but did you ever decide one whether or not to make RTX 'PD', or 'semi-PD' or whatever? I'd be very interested in seeing a 'standardized' multitasking 'upgrade' to the ST. Others would too, as you may have already found out. But no one has seemed very serious (besides you) of doing anything about it. 4. The future. Wither Atari? "Hello, is anyone listening out in Sunnyvale" has been the comp.sys.atari.st call to battle. I am as guilty as anyone else of flaming Atari while not mailing/calling them personally. Like flaming is gonna change anything. This is not to say that Atari will sit up and take notice if I do snailmail/call, but it would be worth a try (apologies to Dave again, since it has been thoroughly thrashed out how Atari is not receptive, or so it seems, to developers, so please pardon any naivete or ignorance on my part.) Would we buy an ST again? (Replys to weaver@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu only, _PLEASE_ do not hit the 'f' button) I want to see the ST work. Hey, I know of people who still use Timex 2068s and have active user groups for a computer that, in this country at least, seems to be more or less extinct (in a marketing sense.) Again, this may all sound very optimistic or very naive, but then how much light has been shed in all the smoke of the current flame wars in this group alone? Let's be real. Flame me if you will, but I'd really rather see something constructive come out of this discussion... --- Andrew Weaver weaver@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu OSU College of Business soon: andy@osu-pisa.UUCP We don' need no iteration We don' need no flow control No strong typecasting in our program Teacher leave my obfusgated code alone... Hey Pascal! Leave us kids alone! All in all its just a-nother list in the code...
david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) (05/03/88)
Some people are taking this a little too seriously. It reminds me of the AT&T customer service joke that raised so much hell a while back. It was really meant to be a joke kids. A poke at Atari vaporware yes, but it's really gotten blown out of control. A few of you are getting too serious about things. It was supposed to be a jab about some of the recent flame wars, not a "real" flame. And for those of you dragging BDT the company into this. If you've got problems with BDT the company, let BDT people know about it, and be specific. When I flame Atari for real, I try to present more than something like "they suck". As for flaming me personally, go ahead make your best play; I'm always game for a round. -- David Beckemeyer | "To understand ranch lingo all yuh Beckemeyer Development Tools | have to do is to know in advance what 478 Santa Clara Ave, Oakland, CA 94610 | the other feller means an' then pay UUCP: ...!ihnp4!hoptoad!bdt!david | no attention to what he says"
peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (05/09/88)
I own an Amiga. It replaced my Atari ST. Enough of that... here are a couple of comments... > 1. File Formats. > IFF is a good idea, in theory at least. IFF is a great idea, and you can get all sorts of good code from comp.sources.amiga. > I think that a > 'clipboard'-type interface (like the Mac) would be an welcome > addition. Well, we've found that the clipboard isn't used much on the Amiga. Scratch files in RAM: are just as useful and a lot more versatile. Think of them as named clips. > 2. Desktop. > How come no one has come out with a better Desktop? Well, apparently someone has. It's not PD though. It's *hard*. One thing you could do would be to look at something other than the Mac for inspiration. I wish Commodore had. Maybe someone would like to port my Browser to the ST? > 3. Multitasking. This is vital, particularly in combination with #1 and #2. -- -- Peter da Silva `-_-' ...!hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!peter -- "Have you hugged your U wolf today?" ...!bellcore!tness1!sugar!peter -- Disclaimer: These aren't mere opinions, these are *values*.