Friesen@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA (05/01/88)
I am wondering if it is possible to hook up your computer to a VCR or camcorder and superimpose graphics or text with a picture you are taking without videodigitizing the picture. I know there are character generaters out there, for camcorders, but is it possible to hook up the Atari as one of those? This is something I've been waiting for it to come out, and now I see Electronic Arts has done it on the Amiga. I think the colloquial term is genlock. If anyone knows how long until it comes out on the Atari or how much it costs, please tell me, I am very interested. P.S. I am also interested (there has been a little talk about it) if anyone has used a satelite dish to recieve weather radar pictures. Aric Friesen Addresses: Genie: A.FRIESEN ARPA: Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA
ali@polya.STANFORD.EDU (Ali T. Ozer) (05/01/88)
In article <880501030428.625908@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA> Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA writes: > >I am wondering if it is possible to hook up your computer to a VCR or >camcorder and superimpose graphics or text with a picture you are taking >without videodigitizing the picture. I know there are character >generaters out there, for camcorders, but is it possible to hook up the >Atari as one of those? >This is something I've been waiting for it to come out, and now I see >Electronic Arts has done it on the Amiga. I think the colloquial term >is genlock. It's not Electronic Arts's doing; Amiga comes genlock-ready, and there are several companies making genlock units for the Amiga, priced from $150 (Mimetics "Amigen") to several thousand dollars. Electronic Arts and other companies do manufacture programs that let you do animations & titling suitable for superimposing on videos. Of course, the Amiga also provides some other features that make it desirable for video, such as full overscan output that prevents solid borders around images when recorded on video tape. This is not to say genlocking isn't possible on the Atari; I remember seeing an article in an German computer magazine for a genlock unit for the 1040ST. I remember it costing a bundle (> 1000DM), and I do not remember any details... Ali Ozer, ali@polya.stanford.edu
rjung@castor.usc.edu (Robert Jung) (05/02/88)
In article <880501030428.625908@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA> Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA writes: >I am wondering if it is possible to hook up your computer to a VCR or >camcorder and superimpose graphics or text with a picture you are taking >without videodigitizing the picture. I know there are character >generaters out there, for camcorders, but is it possible to hook up the >Atari as one of those? > >This is something I've been waiting for it to come out, and now I see >Electronic Arts has done it on the Amiga. I think the colloquial term >is genlock. If anyone knows how long until it comes out on the Atari or >how much it costs, please tell me, I am very interested. Yes, this is called genlock. The idea is to take your ST's signal, synchronize it with your VCR/TV's signal, and blend the two together. Genlock is a fundamental part of the Amiga, and that's where all the "desktop video" hype comes from. As for getting it NOW, I don't think there is such a beast avaliable. However, there are rumors that Antic (you know them guys, Spectrum 512, CAD 3D, all that terrific Atari stuff) is coming out with a genlock system for the ST. This is not just wishful thinking: I've seen a promotional videotape from Antic for Atari's display at the West Germany Hannover faire, and one of the segments on the tape was "Genlock on the Atari ST". Whether or not Antic will market such a device (probably a hardware box), or whether someone else will, is another question. --R.J. B-) P.S. I don't find my ST to be a "horrible" machine (Heck, it's the best one I've seen and afford!), but I do wish Atari management would get their act together (and maybe they have -- Anyone heard about Atari Computers, the newly-formed subsidiary?) ______________________________________________________________________________ Bitnet: rjung@castor.usc.edu "Who needs an Amiga?" = == = = == = Power WithOUT the Price = == = ===== == ===== Just because it's 8-bits doesn't make it obsolete. ==== == ====
hase@netmbx.UUCP (Hartmut Semken) (05/04/88)
In article <880501030428.625908@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA> Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA writes: >I am wondering if it is possible to hook up your computer to a VCR or >camcorder and superimpose graphics or text with a picture you are taking Yes. Possible. >This is something I've been waiting for it to come out, and now I see >Electronic Arts has done it on the Amiga. I think the colloquial term >is genlock. If anyone knows how long until it comes out on the Atari or >how much it costs, please tell me, I am very interested. The ST has one built in, one nobody seems to know about. You can configure the SHIFTER Chip to take the HSync and VSync lines as an input rather than output (external syncronisation). If your VCR provides the synchron signals (possibly with an EURO AV/SCART connector) just feed them into your ST, switch to external sync and look at the picture on the monitor: it is a superposition. I did this (for fun) with the pictures of two STs: resolution of 640*200 by 512*512 colors! Wonderful (almost Amiga)! hase -- Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP I think, you may be right in what I think you're thinking. (Douglas Adams)
rich@jolnet.UUCP (Rich Andrews) (05/05/88)
In article <832@nunki.usc.edu> rjung@castor.usc.edu (Robert Jung) writes: >In article <880501030428.625908@HIS-PHOENIX-MULTICS.ARPA> Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA writes: >>This is something I've been waiting for it to come out, and now I see >>Electronic Arts has done it on the Amiga. I think the colloquial term >>is genlock. If anyone knows how long until it comes out on the Atari or >>how much it costs, please tell me, I am very interested. > > Yes, this is called genlock. The idea is to take your ST's signal, >synchronize it with your VCR/TV's signal, and blend the two together. Genlock > > As for getting it NOW, I don't think there is such a beast avaliable. >However, there are rumors that Antic (you know them guys, Spectrum 512, >CAD 3D, all that terrific Atari stuff) is coming out with a genlock >system for the ST. > Neither Antic nor Atari nor anyone else is going to genlock the ST unless Atari engineering reworks the glue chip. There have been several different versions of the GLUE chip around and the very first rev. was able to be genlocked, but that version has not been made in over 2 years. The only way to genlock it now is with a frame synchronizer (read $5,000). It appears that Atari does not plan to make the ST genlockable. Maybe in the "new" machine it will be able to be genlocked "easily". I have spent many an hour hacking 2 ST's to get them to genlock and I DID genlock the oldest one. It was impossible to genlock anything newer (higher rev number on the GLUE chip) than that though. I even bought 2 new glue chips to verify it. The display is impressive if everything is brought into the ST and is timed properly. As I recall the main crystal had to be changed along with the addition of a loose PLL circuit so that the crystal oscillator would be a multiple of Horizontal Sync and then some additional work had to be done to the 3.58 circuit so that you could drive 3.58 into the ST to obtain color lock. There were a few other things that i seem to have forgotten, but they must be trivial. The biggest hassle was to get the "correct" master oscillator crystal cut. I had to call a crystal house and had to have them cut the crystal for me. If anyone needs any additional information, let me know. Rich Andrews Asst. Chief Engineer WCFC-TV -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Any opinions expressed are my own. Now, for a limited time, they can be yours too, for the incredible price of only $19.95. Simply send $19.95 (in Alterian dollars) to ...killer!jolnet!rich. Or call (312) 301-2100 (data) Rich Andrews
martin@lakesys.UUCP (Martin Wiedmeyer) (05/07/88)
Rich, What is the part # on the "old" glue chip? (The one which can be genlocked?) Marty Wiedmeyer martin@.lakesys.UUCP -- | Marty Wiedmeyer | | Lake Systems, Milwaukee, WI | | UUCP: {ihnp4,uwvax}!uwmcsd1!lakesys!martin | | Disclaimer: I take the heat for my own (mis)statements..... |
wayneck@tekig5.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) (05/10/88)
In article <536@jolnet.UUCP>, rich@jolnet.UUCP (Rich Andrews) writes: > > Yes, this is called genlock. The idea is to take your ST's signal, > >synchronize it with your VCR/TV's signal, and blend the two together. Genlock > > > Neither Antic nor Atari nor anyone else is going to genlock the ST unless > Atari engineering reworks the glue chip. There have been several different > versions of the GLUE chip around and the very first rev. was able to be > genlocked, but that version has not been made in over 2 years. The only > way to genlock it now is with a frame synchronizer (read $5,000). It > appears that Atari does not plan to make the ST genlockable. Maybe > in the "new" machine it will be able to be genlocked "easily". > ... Stuff delete that shows the author is well versed in genlock > > Rich Andrews I saw an add by Pratical Solutions for a RGB to composit video adaptor. I have also heard of a genlock device that takes in any video signal and locks it to another. I forget the name, but I will get the details. As I understand it isn't that expensive (less than $1000, I think) and gives better results that the cheap genlocks that are normally used for Amigas. Note that the Amiga has a more flexible external video sync control than the ST. If all this is true, it would give the ST a much more flexible genlock device than just a genlock designed for the ST. One could genlock a ST and Atari 800 for example. I try to find out the details and post more later. I think it is much better to try and genlock the signals rather than genlock the computer. Wayne Knapp
rich@jolnet.UUCP (Rich Andrews) (05/12/88)
In article <2745@tekig5.TEK.COM> wayneck@tekig5.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp) writes: >In article <536@jolnet.UUCP>, rich@jolnet.UUCP (Rich Andrews) writes: >> > Yes, this is called genlock. The idea is to take your ST's signal, >> >synchronize it with your VCR/TV's signal, and blend the two together. Genlock >> > >> Neither Antic nor Atari nor anyone else is going to genlock the ST unless >> Atari engineering reworks the glue chip. There have been several different >> versions of the GLUE chip around and the very first rev. was able to be >> genlocked, but that version has not been made in over 2 years. The only >> way to genlock it now is with a frame synchronizer (read $5,000). >> > > I saw an add by Pratical Solutions for a RGB to composit video adaptor. I >have also heard of a genlock device that takes in any video signal and locks >it to another. I forget the name, but I will get the details. As I understand >it isn't that expensive (less than $1000, I think) and gives better results >that the cheap genlocks that are normally used for Amigas. Note that the Amiga >has a more flexible external video sync control than the ST. If all this is >true, it would give the ST a much more flexible genlock device than just a >genlock designed for the ST. One could genlock a ST and Atari 800 for example. >I try to find out the details and post more later. I think it is much better >to try and genlock the signals rather than genlock the computer. > > Wayne Knapp In most normal situations there is a way to acccomplish a gen-lock situation. That way is to Gen-lock the VCR to the ST. This has been done in theory and in practice as I will explain in a bit. To accomplish this we take the Horizontal and Vertical sync signals from the ST, buffer them (so not to blow up the GLUE chip, experience dictates that (:>)) and feed it into the Horiz. and Vertical sync inputs on a Home VCR. The VCR will require modification by an experienced video engineer. Now that that is accomplished one has to now take into consideration timing. (Timing ???) For the video signals to mix properly, without a horizontal shift or a color shift, the two signals must be in perfect timing at the point of mixing. If you watch TV for any length or time you will see at some point in time or another, a horizontal shift occur immediatly after a dissolve or a wipe. This is caused by poor horiz. timing. If you see a color shift it is due to poor subcarrier timing. This will also hold true for keying also, but I digress. In Springfield Ill., there is a TV station that uses some consumer beta machines on air. These machines were modified to accept external sync and subcarrier and the output of those machines are then fed into a time base corrector (horizontal freq in asynchronous, horiz. freq out synchronous) and then to the switcher. In the case of the home VCR we are using the ST as the "standard" and are "slaving" everything else from it. Is it worth it? Not really, unless you are really set on doing it. The right way would be to "slave" the ST to whatever you are feeding in. To really do it right would require a good TV sync generator driving all of the other equipment including using the outputs from the generator to drive the ST. I have seen many ads for genlock accesories for the ST but have not ever seen any product from the parties that offer it. Being an RGB analog output, it would be nice to see an inexpensive effects switcher with chroma key capabilities for home use with an ST. If all of this sounds confusing, it is probably because it is! (:>) Think about this one. Digitize a video signal. Store it in RAM. Let an external source clock it out at any rate it wants to. Now do it in real time. Now do it in color! That is what you need to have to build a frame-synchronizer. With that you don't need to genlock the ST. Just genlock the frame-syncronizer. rich andrews -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Any opinions expressed are my own. Now, for a limited time, they can be yours too, for the incredible price of only $19.95. Simply send $19.95 (in Alterian dollars) to ...killer!jolnet!rich. Or call (312) 301-2100 (data) Rich Andrews