01659@AECLCR.BITNET (08/17/88)
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 1988 23:59 EDT From: <<<<< Greg >>>>> <01659@AECLCR> Subject: RE: Praising the ST To: <INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU> I have long since known that computer loyalty is far stronger than loyalty to cars. C-64 owners buy Amigas, XE owners buy STs, etc. This blind loyalty to a computer manufacturer is often evidenced in the device specific magazines that heap praise upon fairly mediocre software (e.g. VIP is OK but bloody slow!!!!!). I have no loyalties. I use a 1040ST and an AT at work. I have a Mega 2 at home. There are two MAC SEs in my Division at work and I act as a support person to the users via MAGIC SAC. If I had the bucks I would probably run out and buy a MAC II (love the colour). I am a USER, not a hacker nor a programmer, but a user. However, in my daily activities at work and at home I have found that the following make the ST the best value for my money (and the company's money) at the present time: 1. Many of my best loved programs are public domain. The ST world has no shortage of great public domain codes (UNITERM and ST640 are the best examples), especially in the .ACC area. I use GEM on the AT at work and hate the fact that there are so few desk accessories. Maybe there is a commercial market porting .ACCs to the PC since businesses will actually BUY these things if they're on a PC. 2. While I am proficient at dBASE III Plus, LOTUS and Word Perfect (God I hate Word Perfect) I detest the fact that the PC lacked a common environment and as such all major codes I run interact differently. It is so easy to show novices how to use ST or MAC applications because of the consistent interfaces these machines use. While it can be argued that GEM is primitive compared to the MAC's opsys, it's a heck of a lot easier to teach (the ST has to have the smallest owner's manual of any major micro). 3. MAC's unstable HFS filing system makes me wince. Watch what happens with a software crash or a power outage - there is a good chance your hard disk will be obliterated (it's easy to find a MAC user who has had to reinstall all of his applications). Good old MAGIC SAC with MFS (I decided not to switch to HFS) is totally stable after a crash. Go ahead, re-boot your ST while running a MAC application and you will see that no harm is done to the MAGIC partition on your hard disk. 4. The ST arrived as a minimum 512K machine so it works very well as a single drive system with the aid of RAM disks. Just listen, you can hear the moans of single drive PC and MAC users. 5. ST software prices are the most reasonable of any system on the market today. I bought Timeworks desktop publisher (DTP) and it cost less than the HP laserjet driver sold for the MAC (LaserStart). In addition, DTP has drivers for the laserjet, postscript and other lasers. No self respecting ST owner would pay the kinds of prices that PC and MAC codes are asking (price/performance being a consideration). 6. I have full disk compatability with the PCs at work. I write with Word Writer on my ST and the secretary prints out the final copies to an HP laserjet using GEM 1ST Word Plus on her PC. EASYDRAW and GEMDRAW can be used interchangeably to create/edit diagrams (GEMDRAW has easier text handling capability). I have taken LOTUS data on a disk from my AT and read the file into EXCEL on a 1040ST. Graphs were created and printed on an HP laserjet (borrowed from the secretary), still on the ST under MAGIC SAC. The edited EXCEL file was rewritten as a LOTUS file and the AT copy updated by feeding the AT the disk written on the ST. Try doing these tricks on any other system! Before anyone criticizes, Appletalk would have allowed me to print on the secretary's laser without borrowing it - the ST's not perfect! I could go on, but this note is already quite long. The point is, the ST (which is "FLAMED" so much on Info-Digest16) does have some good points. Its strongest is, if you have an ST at work you can duplicate the system for peanuts at home. Just get a 520 or a 1040 with a mono monitor and then carry your hard disk home (I did it for ages with no harm to the SH204). For about $CDN 1000, depending on what you buy, you can have a powerful complement to a system at work. You can't do this for anywhere near the price with a MAC or a PC (unless you want some dog of an XT). My only regrets about the ST are: - software still lags behind the PC and MAC in terms of sophistication - too much piracy abounds in the ST world, this makes truly wonderful programmers like Small, Moore and Hudson turn away from the ST because they cannot earn a living - Atari is the ultimate VAPOURWARE firm. No wonder it was such an uphill battle to get STs at work (there are about 80 STs in our community of 4000, 2/3 at work and 1/3 in home use). From my brief exposure to Info-Digest16, I know Atari reads these listings faithfully so PLEASE work hard to change your image as the VW kings.
david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) (08/20/88)
In article <8808170403.AA26274@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> 01659@AECLCR.BITNET writes: The poster describes many of the good points of the ST with which I agree. But he also presents the following fundamental problem with the ST. Even in his posting he presents mutually opposing viewpoints. First he says: >1. Many of my best loved programs are public domain. and >5. ST software prices are the most reasonable of any system on the >market today... ...No self respecting ST owner would pay >the kinds of prices that PC and MAC codes are asking >(price/performance being a consideration). Later he says: >My only regrets about the ST are: > >- software still lags behind the PC and MAC in terms of >sophistication > >- too much piracy abounds in the ST world, this makes truly >wonderful programmers like Small, Moore and Hudson turn away from >the ST because they cannot earn a living > >- Atari is the ultimate VAPOURWARE firm. No wonder it was such an >uphill battle to get STs at work (there are about 80 STs in our >community of 4000, 2/3 at work and 1/3 in home use). From my brief >exposure to Info-Digest16, I know Atari reads these listings >faithfully so PLEASE work hard to change your image as the VW >kings. Do you not see the cause and effect between the "advantages" described earlier and these "disadvantages"? They're the same thing. While there is excellent PD software available for the ST, it simply is not true that this will mean there always will be. And if you want more polished professional software, you have to attract high-quality development bucks. Good software engineers have no dificulty making an extremely good living. But they can't always do it in the ST market. And eventually even the funnest machine in the world to play with isn't fun anymore when you're not eating. Piracy is not the only reason that developers are forced to leave the Atari ST market. I would wager that a large percentage of full-time "professional" ST developers (meaning they make a living at ST programming exclusively) are untrained, inexperienced hackers. Many probably have little or no professional programming experience with anything but 8-bit systems and PCs. Most probably don't have CS or Math degrees - they might have a philosophy or psychology degree. The guys writing the PD programs in their spare time probably have more experience and training than the average "professional" Atari ST developer. This is becuase the experienced programmers are being paid to do something else. Would somebody hire me at a competitive salary to do ST programming? Probably not. Why? Becuase there isn't any place to apply for a job. NOBODY'S HIRING ATARI ST PROGRAMMERS, pal. Would somebody pay me a price I feel is resonable as a software engineer for UNIX/SUN/VAX/Apollo/Mac etc? Yes they would. So that's what I do (sort of). The idea of inexpensive software is good. But it doesn't work unless there is sufficiant volume. On the ST, due to in part to piracy but other things too, the volume isn't there. The bad thing about inexpensive software and low volume is that no large development efforts will be undertaken becuase no business can justify spending the bucks. I'm not saying these things will be the death of the ST. I'm just saying that these things contribute to the stagnation and, until Atari does something about it, they will keep the ST out the main-stream. -- David Beckemeyer (david@bdt.uucp) | "Don't call me Stupid!" Beckemeyer Development Tools | "No. That would be an insult 478 Santa Clara Ave, Oakland, CA 94610 | to all the stupid people!" UUCP: {unisoft,sun}!hoptoad!bdt!david | - A fish called Wanda