to_stdnet@stag.UUCP (10/18/88)
From: thelake!steve@stag.UUCP (Steve Yelvington)
Robert X. Cringely's column in the Oct. 17 misInfoWorld
outlines the following specs for the Atari '030 system
(coming soon to a Comdex not-so-near you):
Four slots, passive backplane (no mention of bus standard)
68030 CPU
56000 Motorola digital signal processor
1 MB RAM
1 MB VRAM
Ethernet
Color monitor
44MB removable hard disk
GEM (no mention of Unix. Surely an oversight.)
Imagen clone of Display Postscript (this puzzles me; I thought
Imagen had developed a PS interpreter,
not a display processor.)
Price: $1,995.
(Salt thoroughly before consuming.)
The NeXT package, as described elsewhere in the same issue:
Four slots, passive backplane, NuBUS
68030 CPU
68881 math processor
56001 Motorola digital signal processor
Two proprietary VLSI chips
8 MB RAM
Ethernet
Monochrome monitor, 1120x832, 2 bits/pixel
256 MB removable optical disk
SCSI controller
NeXT STEP, Mach, Objective-C, GNU C Compiler, EMACS, Lisp, SQL database,
Write Now, Mathematica, Display PostScript, Sun NFS
Price: $6,500 to academia.
Not-so-incidentally, the same issue describes the NeXT $2,000
laser printer: Canon print engine, driven via bit-image dump
from the computer over the DMA port. Sound familiar?
| thelake!steve@stag.UUCP / ...rosevax!pwcs!stag!thelake!steve good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) (10/21/88)
in article <624@stag.UUCP>, to_stdnet@stag.UUCP says: > From: thelake!steve@stag.UUCP (Steve Yelvington) > Robert X. Cringely's column in the Oct. 17 misInfoWorld > outlines the following specs for the Atari '030 system > (coming soon to a Comdex not-so-near you): > > Four slots, passive backplane (no mention of bus standard) > 68030 CPU > 56000 Motorola digital signal processor > 1 MB RAM > 1 MB VRAM > Ethernet > Color monitor > 44MB removable hard disk > GEM (no mention of Unix. Surely an oversight.) > Imagen clone of Display Postscript (this puzzles me; I thought > Imagen had developed a PS interpreter, > not a display processor.) > Price: $1,995. > (Salt thoroughly before consuming.) Don't believe everything you read in the press! When the machine is ready for external test and use by developers, ATARI will post details. Until then, treat anything you read as pure rumor! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy J. Good Product Development, Atari Corporation Views expressed are my own. Atari may agree or disagree; they have the right. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Friesen@PCO-MULTICS.HBI.HONEYWELL.COM (10/25/88)
Steve Yelvington compared the NeXT to the (hopefully) soon-to-be-released Atari workstaion. In doing so, he said that it would run with GEM, and implied that that would be run "over" UNIX. From my understanding, it will be Helios, which is far from UNIX. (this move to select Helios seems to show the importance of the European market, that is what is equivilent there to our UNIX here). Can anyone comment on this? Aric Friesen Addresses: Genie: A.FRIESEN ARPA: Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA
trb@stag.UUCP ( Todd Burkey ) (10/25/88)
In article <881024222344.098664@PCO-MULTICS.HBI.HONEYWELL.COM> Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.HBI.HONEYWELL.COM writes: > > >Steve Yelvington compared the NeXT to the (hopefully) >soon-to-be-released Atari workstaion. In doing so, he said that it >would run with GEM, and implied that that would be run "over" UNIX. > >From my understanding, it will be Helios, which is far from UNIX. (this Helios is the OS intended for the Transputer based machine, not the 68030 based one. Two different Atari products. From my information, Atari's first low end 68030 based machine was to be: 1) 16 MHz 68030, 2) Gem/Tos in ROM (for compatibility and an existing SW base) 3) A multi-tasking kernel partnered in ROM as well (originally intended to be MW Coherent, but haven't heard if that panned out.) 4) Moderate resolution color graphics (in the 800x600 or so range), but I am sure this could change greatly by they time it gets released. 5) 1MB memory 6) roughly 1500 or so price. 7) released end of 88, early 89 (all this info is from earlier this year. If the latest info of a March production delivery date of the 68030 holds, then I am somewhat upset from a developer viewpoint...I had hopes of getting one for some heavy duty tool and human interface development. When a developer release date is almost the same as a production release date, there is less incentive to dig into a machine and try to set any standards. -Todd Burkey trb@stag.UUCP
good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) (10/26/88)
in article <881024222344.098664@PCO-MULTICS.HBI.HONEYWELL.COM>, Friesen@PCO-MULTICS.HBI.HONEYWELL.COM says: > > Steve Yelvington compared the NeXT to the (hopefully) > soon-to-be-released Atari workstaion. In doing so, he said that it > would run with GEM, and implied that that would be run "over" UNIX. > From my understanding, it will be Helios, which is far from UNIX. (this > move to select Helios seems to show the importance of the European > market, that is what is equivilent there to our UNIX here). Can anyone > comment on this? > Aric Friesen Helios is the parallel processing version of UNIXtm which is the basis of the transputer based Atari Transputer Workstation (ATW, formerly known as Abaq). Our 68030 box will run X/OPEN compliant V.3.1. Which shows our commitment to both Europe (X/OPEN) AND USA (V.3.1)! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy J. Good Product Development, Atari Corporation Views expressed are my own. Atari may agree or disagree; they have the right. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
covertr@gtephx.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (10/26/88)
Helios is the os for the ABAQ (or whatever Atari is calling that machine this week!!) and not the 68030 machine. This is all moot anyway, given Atari's history of Vaporware. As for myself, I am saving up for a NeXT computer from Jobs!! richard (still cursing the slm804) covert
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/31/88)
In article <1199@atari.UUCP> good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) writes: >Helios is the parallel processing version of UNIXtm which is the basis of >the transputer based Atari Transputer Workstation (ATW, formerly known as >Abaq). Unless perhilion has changed what they are doing radically, Helios is a transputer O/S with a system interface that is *similar* to UNIX. MACH is a parallel processing version of UNIX. The distinction is small but important. >Our 68030 box will run X/OPEN compliant V.3.1. Which shows our commitment to >both Europe (X/OPEN) AND USA (V.3.1)! Nice job, the next question is will 4.3 BSD be supported ? Many universities and technical folks prefer it and it's semantices. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) (11/01/88)
in article <75352@sun.uucp>, cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) says: > > In article <1199@atari.UUCP> good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) writes: >>Our 68030 box will run X/OPEN compliant V.3.1. Which shows our commitment to >>both Europe (X/OPEN) AND USA (V.3.1)! > Nice job, the next question is will 4.3 BSD be supported ? Many universities > and technical folks prefer it and it's semantices. > --Chuck McManis Valid point. Our port will include several of the more common Berkeley features, including 'sockets', 'lpr', fast-file-system etc. We'll post full details when the product is ready for Beta but no, we haven't forgotten the BSD friends! Roy Good/Atari
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (11/02/88)
We haven't talked about TOS 1.4 lately. Will the ship date be announced soon? (Like maybe at Comdex?) Can Atari comment yet on how existing machines will be able to be upgraded (I presume that once the ROMs are being made at all, they'll be made in ample volume)?
dkhusema@faui44.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Dirk Husemann) (11/02/88)
From article <881024222344.098664@PCO-MULTICS.HBI.HONEYWELL.COM>, by Friesen@PCO-MULTICS.HBI.HONEYWELL.COM: > > ... > > From my understanding, it will be Helios, which is far from UNIX. (this > move to select Helios seems to show the importance of the European > market, that is what is equivilent there to our UNIX here). Can anyone ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > comment on this? I will: Helios is just a UNIX look-alike, it isn't equivalent to it (in my view). Why? Well, essentially, it's been designed to run on a network of transputers and not the 68030! Helios is a multiprocessor system, though it's *not* a tightly coupled multiprocessor system (i.e. shared memory, etc) but rather a loosely coupled multiprocessor system, each transputer is running its own (Helios-)kernel. Communication is done via transputer links (If I remember correctly, 20Mbit/s). Thus, Helios for the Atari could perhaps be compared to Mach (-> NeXT, comp.sys.next) which *is* a *tightly coupled* multiprocessor system. > > > Aric Friesen > > Addresses: > > Genie: A.FRIESEN > > ARPA: Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA Dirk Husemann ------------------ Smile, tomorrow will be worse! -------------- Email: dkhusema@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Or: {pyramid,unido}!fauern!faui44!dkhusema Mail: Dirk Husemann, Aufsess-Str. 19, D-8520 Erlangen, (Home) West Germany (Busi- University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Computer Science Dep., ness) IMMD IV, Martensstr. 1, D-8520 Erlangen, West Germany Phone: (Home) +49 9131 302036, (Business) +49 9131 857908 -- Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here! -- --------------- My opinions are mine, mine, mine ---------------
covertr@gtephx.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (11/02/88)
> Valid point. Our port will include several of the more common Berkeley > features, including 'sockets', 'lpr', fast-file-system etc. > We'll post full details when the product is ready for Beta but no, we > haven't forgotten the BSD friends! > Roy Good/Atari The key words in this message are "our port will include". Is this a product announcement from Roy Good at Atari?? Does this mean that the mythical, vaporware, 68030 machine exists?? Oh boy, finally, Atari has announced the 68030. It will run UNIX, but will it run TOS programs as well?? Richard (Still Mad At Atari about the SLM804 Laser Printer Bugs) Covert
good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) (11/03/88)
in article <6879@chinet.chi.il.us>, saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) says: > > We haven't talked about TOS 1.4 lately. Will the ship date be announced > soon? (Like maybe at Comdex?) Can Atari comment yet on how existing > machines will be able to be upgraded (I presume that once the ROMs are > being made at all, they'll be made in ample volume)? ROMs are on quite long lead times. Naturally, we have to do ROMs for production. However, depending on demand (which I expect will be quite high) we may offer One-Time-PROM [OTP] kits, which I'd like to have include the RAM-loadable version for those who want to experiment with it before going to an 'approved service center' to have the ROMs changed. Roy Good/Atari
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (11/04/88)
In article <1213@atari.UUCP>, good@atari.UUCP (Roy Good) writes: [Answering a question about TOS 1.4] > ROMs are on quite long lead times. Naturally, we have to do ROMs for > production. However, depending on demand (which I expect will be quite high) > we may offer One-Time-PROM [OTP] kits, which I'd like to have include the > RAM-loadable version for those who want to experiment with it before > going to an 'approved service center' to have the ROMs changed. > Roy Good/Atari I'd certainly be interested in an early crack at trying TOS 1.4, and I strongly suspect that a lot of sensitive users would regard this as a chance to try the new version to be sure it wouldn't break their important applications before commiting to it. I trust we may take the remark about going to 'an approved service center' as meaning that the upgrade will be done in the field without the necessity of returning the machine to Atari. I am a bit disappointed at the lack of an assertion that 'Atari will be in a position to announce the timing for availability of TOS 1.4 within at most x number of weeks'. I had the impression that results from the second round of beta testing were pretty much in, and that's frequently enough to justify making a pretty good schedule.
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (11/08/88)
>> From my understanding, it will be Helios, which is far from UNIX. (this >> move to select Helios seems to show the importance of the European >> market, that is what is equivilent there to our UNIX here). Can anyone > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> comment on this? > I will: Helios is just a UNIX look-alike, it isn't equivalent to > it (in my view). Why? Well, essentially, it's been designed to run on a > network of transputers and not the 68030! That's just scratching the surface. Perhaps the most important difference between Helios and UNIX is that all implementations of UNIX, by definition, use MMUs for protection, so that errant code in one application can't clobber other applications or the kernel. Helios can't offer any inherent protection, since Transputers don't. Of course, it may be difficult for a process on Transputer A to clobber a process on Transputer B, but adding one Transputer per process is about the only way you can get real protection, which is pretty ugly. > Thus, Helios for the Atari could perhaps be compared to Mach (-> NeXT, > comp.sys.next) which *is* a *tightly coupled* multiprocessor system. The current Mach kernel on the NeXT machine is supposedly the more mature Mach kernel, the one without multiprocessor support. However, Mach was designed for tightly coupled multiprocessing, and certainly one would expect NeXT to eventually offer that version of the kernel, perhaps when it's fully working and NeXT has additional CPU modules to add into their box. >> Aric Friesen > Dirk Husemann -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession