to_stdnet@stag.UUCP (11/01/88)
From: thelake!steve@stag.UUCP (Steve Yelvington) I've had a beta copy of the (free!) Sozobon C compiler for a month or so. I'm quite pleased with it, but it has one glaring deficiency: no GEM. After drinking a mondo quantity of coffee, and with the help and encouragement of Dale Schumacher and John Stanley, I managed to get an AES library put together. I have not tested most of it, and have not yet implemented a couple of minor functions, but I do have dialog boxes working, the file selector popping up, resource files loading*, the menu bar displayed, etc. I have not yet started coding a VDI library, although I have been doing some groundwork for it. Since I am not a registered Atari developer, I don't have easy access to the information I need to complete this project. I've had to dig it out of the backs of various books and from a few public-domain source code and doc files that I've found. I would like to appeal for some assistance. I don't want to reinvent the wheel more often than is necessary. If you know of any public-domain header files, documentation or other resources that would help me with this project, I would appreciate receiving them. I am particularly interested in anything on Line A. Please do not send me anything that is proprietary, copyright, secret or otherwise improper for distribution. When they (seem to) work, the libraries will be released as to the public domain, with sources -- none of this copyright stuff you see nowadays. I already have Mark Johnson's libraries. I've been VERY careful not to copy any of Mark's code; my AES stuff works quite differently (and was derived from different published data). However, Mark deserves a hand for having published his work. Without his GEM library, I'd have assumed this project to be impossible, and without his C compiler, I'd have not learned the language in the first place. ----------- *I'm using the DRI Resource Construction Set, which I purchased from Merlin-Computer GMBH in W. Germany. The blasted thing is buggy but usable. | thelake!steve@stag.UUCP or steve@pnet51.cts.com | | rosevax!\ | ...rutgers!umn-cs!mmm!pwcs!stag!thelake!steve | ...amdahl!ems!/ / | eta!
to_stdnet@stag.UUCP (11/04/88)
From: dal@syntel.UUCP (Dale Schumacher) > Why use Sobozon C when Mark Williams C is available is and such a fine > product at a great price?? You can buy MWC for as low as $125. Well, for one thing, Sozobon is FREE. Secondly, it comes with SOURCE CODE for EVERYTHING. This may not be important to many people, but I feel a lot better about something if I have the source code, since that means I can FIX it if I find a bug, and I can understand it and learn from it otherwise. Thirdly, it generates better code than Mark Williams C. And finally, it doesn't create problems with the environment. These problems are not immediately obvious to the casual user, but Mark Williams C uses some very sloppy methods of passing long argument lines and information about the 'isatty()' status of file handles. Mark Williams C is a very fine product in many ways, and is probably better supported (by the users, I've never liked the support I've gotten from the Company) than any other C for the ST. It is currently a better choice for projects that use GEM or floating point. I don't write many programs that use either GEM or fp, so I doesn't matter to me. Also, I got Alcyon C as part of the ST developer's kit (a LLOOOONNNNGGG time ago), and Sozobon has the final advantage of being upwardly compatible with all my old code. -- Dale Schumacher 399 Beacon Ave. (alias: Dalnefre') St. Paul, MN 55104 ...pwcs!stag!syntel!dal United States of America "It's not reality that's important, but how you perceive things."
Fiacha of Glencar@hjuxa.UUCP (Fiacha of Glencar) (11/05/88)
From article <643@stag.UUCP>, by to_stdnet@stag.UUCP: > From: dal@syntel.UUCP (Dale Schumacher) > >> Why use Sobozon C when Mark Williams C is available is and such a fine >> product at a great price?? You can buy MWC for as low as $125. > > Well, for one thing, Sozobon is FREE. Secondly, it comes with SOURCE CODE > for EVERYTHING. OK So where can I get a copy? Nigel Haslock ..!rutgers!hjuxa!nrh |One day, I must find a way |to fix this posting |software to let |me post as |little |as I |wish and not have to add lines and lines of garbage.
to_stdnet@stag.UUCP (11/06/88)
From: thelake!steve@stag.UUCP (Steve Yelvington) > From: Fiacha of Glencar@hjuxa.UUCP (Fiacha of Glencar) > > From article <643@stag.UUCP>, by to_stdnet@stag.UUCP: > > From: dal@syntel.UUCP (Dale Schumacher) > > > >> Why use Sobozon C when Mark Williams C is available is and such a fine > >> product at a great price?? You can buy MWC for as low as $125. > > > > Well, for one thing, Sozobon is FREE. Secondly, it comes with SOURCE CODE > > for EVERYTHING. > > OK So where can I get a copy? > > Nigel Haslock > ..!rutgers!hjuxa!nrh > Send a check for $10 to Tony Andrews, 5902E Gunbarrel Ave., Boulder, CO 80301 and he'll mail you the whole package including sources with a printout of the documentation. Sozobon C also should be appearing on file servers and I believe it's already on the national pay $ervices. (If you are outside the United States, you should check with your post office about international mail rates and add that amount with your request.) Note: It does NOT include the AES library I've been working on (at least I don't think it does); I'm not affiliated with Sozobon. I plan to make the library available in the next couple of days. I've found a guy in Denver who says he's got a VDI library working with Sozobon. If it works out, we may distribute them together. | thelake!steve@stag.UUCP or steve@pnet51.cts.com | | nosc.mil!crash!orbit! | rosevax!\ \ | ...rutgers!umn-cs!mmm!pwcs!stag!thelake!steve | ...amdahl!ems!/ / | eta!
to_stdnet@stag.UUCP (11/07/88)
From: thelake!steve@stag.UUCP (Steve Yelvington) A set of GEM bindings written in assembler and compatible with Sozobon C showed up the other day at BRASS*BBS in Buffalo, N.Y. The package, GEMQ.ARC, includes AES, VDI and a utility library (handy functions for GEM programmers that aren't built into GEM). The readme file in the archive includes a note from the author, Don E. Farmer, 16810 Deer Creek Drive, Spring, Texas 77379 to the effect that he wrote the libraries for Alcyon C users as a shareware project, but found no takers, so he was releasing them as "public domain" but retaining the copyright. (That's a contradiction, but I suppose he means "you can pass this around and use it as you see fit.") The AES library is a little bit smaller than the one I wrote in C. I suspect that the VDI library is better than the one I haven't written yet. So I probably won't finish the job. If someone will advise me where to send GEMQ for net distribution, I will do so. | thelake!steve@stag.UUCP or steve@pnet51.cts.com | | rosevax!\ | ...rutgers!umn-cs!mmm!pwcs!stag!thelake!steve | ...amdahl!ems!/ / | eta!
pa1132@sdcc15.ucsd.edu (pa1132) (11/08/88)
How much memory does Sobozon C requires? Can it run in a 520ST? Any info is appreciated.
acm@valhalla.cs.ucla.edu (Association for Computing Machinery) (11/08/88)
In article <651@stag.UUCP> to_stdnet@stag.UUCP writes: >From: thelake!steve@stag.UUCP (Steve Yelvington) > [...] >no takers, so he was releasing them as "public domain" but retaining the >copyright. (That's a contradiction, but I suppose he means "you can pass >this around and use it as you see fit.") > > > | thelake!steve@stag.UUCP or steve@pnet51.cts.com > | > | rosevax!\ > | ...rutgers!umn-cs!mmm!pwcs!stag!thelake!steve > | ...amdahl!ems!/ / > | eta! Unless I'm mistaken, your holding a copyright to a program simply means you are the only person who has the right to make money from it. The purpose for many public domain copyright notices is to keep certain people from selling your product while claiming that they developed it. This is in contrast to having the sole right to copy it, despite how it sounds. (you think this is confusing, you ought to see the California ballot!) Plinio Barbeito --- UUCP: ...!{...}!ucla-cs!acm ARPA: acm@cs.ucla.edu VOICE: (213) 825-5879, 825-7597
seitz@cory.Berkeley.EDU (Matthew Eric Seitz) (11/09/88)
In article <17608@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU> acm@cs.ucla.edu (Association for Computing Machinery) writes: >In article <651@stag.UUCP> to_stdnet@stag.UUCP writes: >Unless I'm mistaken, your holding a copyright to a program simply means you >are the only person who has the right to make money from it. The purpose >for many public domain copyright notices is to keep certain people from selling >your product while claiming that they developed it. This is in contrast to >having the sole right to copy it, despite how it sounds. I think you're mistaken. Copyright means having the sole right to copy something. The principle behind this is that the copyright holder should be paid for each copy in use. If copyright only meant you can't sell something for a profit, there would be nothing illegal in passing out free copies of Word Perfect to your friends or in posting it to free bulletin boards. >Plinio Barbeito Matt Seitz seitz@cory.berkeley.edu
cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (11/09/88)
thelake!steve@stag.UUCP (Steve Yelvington) wrote (maybe) : > > ...no takers, so he was releasing them as "public domain" but retaining the > copyright. (That's a contradiction, but I suppose he means "you can pass > this around and use it as you see fit.") Then The Association for Computing Machinery (:-)) writes: > Unless I'm mistaken, your holding a copyright to a program simply means > you are the only person who has the right to make money from it. > Plinio Barbeito [This comes up a lot in computer circles so note this please.] Plinio is mistaken. Copyright means just that, the right to control the copies. Generally authors allow copies to be made if you send them some money for each one. They may also make other provisions such as "You may copy this work if you do not profit by making that copy." Or the all encompassing "No copy of this work may be made without express written permission of the author." (sometimes folks just say "All rights reserved."). And now for the scary part. If you, the author, put the words "public domain" on the work they _supercede_ the copyright notice and the work becomes public domain. And anyone can do anything with public domain programs with out so much as a nod in the author's direction. The worst problem is when someone collects some public domain programs and sells them as "their" tools package for $59.95 or what ever. The author has no recourse in this case, period. So the bottom line is never, never, never, never, call something you wrote public domain unless you really mean public domain. You can call it freely redistributable which is what you probably meant anyway. And of course be sure to put a legal copyright on all works, follow up with a registration if you are going to market it. A legal copyright notice consists of the word "Copyright", the year, and the name of the copyright holder. Following the copyright should be a statement of rights indicating your wishes, if you don't have a statement then add on that says "All rights reserved." If you don't do this then you will be taken advantage of by unscrupulous people in the computer business and you will not be able to sue them. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
matthew@sunpix.UUCP ( Sun NCAA) (11/09/88)
>The readme file in the archive includes a note from the author, Don E. >Farmer, 16810 Deer Creek Drive, Spring, Texas 77379 to the effect that he >wrote the libraries for Alcyon C users as a shareware project, but found >no takers, so he was releasing them as "public domain" but retaining the >copyright. (That's a contradiction, but I suppose he means "you can pass >this around and use it as you see fit.") I've heard a term called "FREEWARE" that refers to zero cost - copyrighted programs. I infers the no-cost status of the software, without the author lossing the ownership of it that "public domain" implies. -- Matthew Lee Stier (919) 469-8300| Sun Microsystems --- RTP, NC 27560| "Wisconsin Escapee" uucp: {sun, rti}!sunpix!matthew |