WILLIAMS@UCF1VM.BITNET (Erik Williams) (01/27/89)
Peter da Silva writes: >This is not possible. The Atari has a maximum possible resolution, using every >trick in the book, of something like 262 by 704 by 512 colors. The Amiga has >a maximum resolution, again using every trick in the book, of 525 by 704 by >4096 colors. You can't get a non-interlaced image with 3-bit DACs to equal >an interlaced image with 4-bit DACs. >Either will, of course, beat up on machines like the Apple-IIGS. >-- >Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva `-_-' Hackercorp. >...texbell!sugar!peter, or peter@sugar.uu.net 'U` Sorry Peter, but my ST would love to have a talk with you. The ST's maximum resolution in color is 640x320 with a maximum color pallette of 4096 colors in Medium res and 16 million colors in low resolution (mind you, you have to do some major tweaking with TOS to do this). High resolution monochrome is 640x480, and is paper white with black. However, any one of these resolutions can scroll (with the famous LineA command) up to 32,767x32,767 pixels in ANY resolution using a program called BIGSCRN.PRG (it is on many of the BBSs here in Orlando, FL). However, to do 32kx32k, you must have about six megs in the machine. However, it is nice being able to use Desktop Publisher ST in 1280x960, and sometimes 1500x1500 resolution! Show me an Amiga that can do that (when they are not in Guru Meditations, of course!!! <a wicked grin>). Erik Williams Electrical Engineering University of Central Florida (WILLIAMS@UCF1VM.bitnet) Orlando, Florida P.S. I believe Quantum Paint is the program that has broken the 4k colors limitation and can make 16 million in low resolution.
) (01/27/89)
In article <8901261651.AA12611@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> WILLIAMS@UCF1VM.BITNET (Erik Williams) writes: >Peter da Silva writes: > >>This is not possible. The Atari has a maximum possible resolution, using every >>trick in the book, of something like 262 by 704 by 512 colors. The Amiga has >>a maximum resolution, again using every trick in the book, of 525 by 704 by >>4096 colors. You can't get a non-interlaced image with 3-bit DACs to equal >>an interlaced image with 4-bit DACs. > >>Either will, of course, beat up on machines like the Apple-IIGS. >>-- >>Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva `-_-' Hackercorp. >>...texbell!sugar!peter, or peter@sugar.uu.net 'U` > >Sorry Peter, but my ST would love to have a talk with you. The ST's maximum >resolution in color is 640x320 with a maximum color pallette of 4096 colors in >Medium res and 16 million colors in low resolution (mind you, you have to do >some major tweaking with TOS to do this). High resolution monochrome is Yeah, right, tweak that TOS. C`mon 4096 colors is just not possible w/o (what old 800'ers used to call) pageflipping, and that (then and now) looks terrible. 16 million colors, that's a WHOLE LOTTA pageflipping. Even the SPECTRUM screen 320*200*512 isn't a true 320*200*512 screen since you can't place those colors (*) whereever you like. And that is for anything put ~100% static picture programs a real inconvenience. >640x480, and is paper white with black. However, any one of these resolutions >can scroll (with the famous LineA command) up to 32,767x32,767 pixels in ANY >resolution using a program called BIGSCRN.PRG (it is on many of the BBSs here >in Orlando, FL). However, to do 32kx32k, you must have about six megs in the Oh, since when does scrolling have anything to do with resolution and therefore with the discussion ? What we have with the ST is 16 color registers each with 3 Bits for RED 3 for BLUE and 3 for GREEN. (512 colors max.) So in order to get more than 16 colors on the screen per frame, we have to use CPU time. Same with those fabled extra resolution lines. That's not some- thing 'built-in' the hardware, but more software interacting w/hardware for some special effects. Fastmoving graphics (games yeah!), you can't do on the ST with more than 16 colors + (what we used to call DLIs) HBL/TIMERB color register changes. On the Amiga (I as far as I know, and I don't really know anything about it) you get in lorez something like 320x200x32, and that's twice as many colors. So if you want to/have to look down on Amigas, you have to say: "look, 640x400 monochrome crystalclear 70Hz flickerfree, har har" BTW. in the TT spec puplished by ST-Magazin, there is a little box between the video chip and memory called 'Funnel'. What is that ? A cache ? (*) As far as I know, correct me if I am wrong. Georg Wallmann (Natuerlich!) cgw@trillian.irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de Besitzer des letzten Moschus-Spaniels ...uunet!mcvax!unido!trillian!cgw (?) --------------[ cgw[%trillian]@[ex]unido.<uucp|bitnet> ]-------------------
rjung@sal45.usc.edu (Robert allen Jung) (01/28/89)
In writing about the "superiority"(?) of Amiga graphics, Peter da Silva writes: >This is not possible. The Atari has a maximum possible resolution, using every >trick in the book, of something like 262 by 704 by 512 colors. The Amiga has >a maximum resolution, again using every trick in the book, of 525 by 704 by >4096 colors. In article <8901261651.AA12611@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> WILLIAMS@UCF1VM.BITNET (Erik Williams) writes: >Sorry Peter, but my ST would love to have a talk with you. The ST's maximum >resolution in color is 640x320 with a maximum color pallette of 4096 colors in >Medium res and 16 million colors in low resolution (mind you, you have to do >some major tweaking with TOS to do this). ... any one of these resolutions >can scroll (with the famous LineA command) up to 32,767x32,767 pixels in ANY >resolution using a program called BIGSCRN.PRG (it is on many of the BBSs here >in Orlando, FL). ... > >P.S. I believe Quantum Paint is the program that has broken the 4k colors >limitation and can make 16 million in low resolution. I'd like to point out a few things here... First, BIGSCRN.PRG is a wonderful program, and another example of what can be done with PD software alone B-). BUT, before everybody chases their local boards for a copy, I'd better mention that it does NOT run on TOS 1.0 (at least it didn't run on my 1040ST). You'll need a Mega with TOS 1.2, or the someday-it-will-be-here TOS 1.4 to get this nifty feature. Secondly, you seem to have Quantum Paint confused with the Atari Transputer machine. The transputer is supposed to have 16 million colors in its low- resolution mode (which is nothing like the ST's low-res, having more pixels than ST High-res offers[!]). Quantum Paint gives you 320 x 200 pixels of 4096 colors, but without any "major tweaking" with TOS -- It takes two 16-color pictures and flips between them very rapidly. It may be a little annoying on the eyes, but if all those Amiga users can live with it... (wicked grin) (The Quantum Paint interface is horrible, though. Maybe somebody can take the technology, write a better user-interface, and make Spectrum 512 look sick? B-) --R.J. B-) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ___ ______ __ __ / _ \ | ____ \ || || Call the O-MAYER V BBS! (213) 732-0229 || || || || || \\ // ||_|| || || || \\// As friendly as you can get! \___/ || || || \/ * Discussions on anything under the sun! * 20 Mbytes of storage -- Atari, Mac, IBM, more! * 1200/2400 baud! 24 hours! PC Pursuit-able!
twolf@homxb.ATT.COM (T.WOLF) (01/28/89)
In article <8901261651.AA12611@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>, WILLIAMS@UCF1VM.BITNET (Erik Williams) writes: > Peter da Silva writes: > > >This is not possible. The Atari has a maximum possible resolution, using every > >trick in the book, of something like 262 by 704 by 512 colors. The Amiga has ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ reads: 262 * 704 * 512 ...deleted stuff... > Sorry Peter, but my ST would love to have a talk with you. The ST's maximum > resolution in color is 640x320 with a maximum color pallette of 4096 colors in > Medium res and 16 million colors in low resolution (mind you, you have to do > some major tweaking with TOS to do this). High resolution monochrome is ... deleted stuff.. Before you attack someone else's statements, at least do some simple math. For crying out loud, the author admitted that the ST could display OVER 16 million colors. In case you are a little weak on math: (262 * 704 * 512 = 94,437,376) >> 16,000,000 So that your "brag" of the ST's 16,000,000 didn't add ANYTHING to the discussion. It didn't even qualify as a "brag". Notice I'm not saying that I agree with the author's claim that the ST could display this many colors -- as a matter of fact, I seriously doubt it. Why do people keep insisting on comparing their machines to others'? I guess there will always be folks wanting to match "the Jones' Next Door! -------- (none of these remarks reflect any of my own beliefs - much less my employers) -- Tom Wolf Bell Labs, Holmdel, NJ E-mail: twolf@homxb.att.com
neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) (01/30/89)
In article <8901261651.AA12611@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> WILLIAMS@UCF1VM.BITNET (Erik Williams) writes: > >The ST's maximum resolution in color is 640x320 with a maximum color pallette >of 4096 colors in Medium res and 16 million colors in low resolution (mind you >, you have to do some major tweaking with TOS to do this). High resolution >monochrome is 640x480, and is paper white with black. If these amazing resolutions are stable then I *want* to be able to do this! HOW!! >Erik Williams >Electrical Engineering >University of Central Florida (WILLIAMS@UCF1VM.bitnet) >Orlando, Florida _____________________________________________________________________________ / DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own \ ! ! ! "I think all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of ! ! being told that ordinary decent people are fed up in this country with ! ! being sick and tired. I'm certainly not and I'm sick and tired of being ! ! told that I am!" - Monty Python ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh ! ! Scotland ! \_____________________________________________________________________________/
bw0i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Bryan Wu) (01/31/89)
I believe there was an article about a separate harware card for the ST to display >16,000,000 colors in some incredible resolution coming out. I believe it was in ST Informer (?) well, can anyone fill us in on this? Is the ST going to be the front end for a graphics workstation?
brett@sylvester (Brett S Bourbin) (02/01/89)
In article <2141@brahma.cs.hw.ac.uk> neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes: >In article <8901261651.AA12611@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> WILLIAMS@UCF1VM.BITNET (Erik Williams) writes: >> >>The ST's maximum resolution in color is 640x320 with a maximum color pallette >>of 4096 colors in Medium res and 16 million colors in low resolution (mind you >>, you have to do some major tweaking with TOS to do this). High resolution >>monochrome is 640x480, and is paper white with black. Ok, I *guess* I can understand 640x320 and 640x480 resolutions by extending the screen lines to take up the top and bottom of the display. What I don't understand is how you can get 4096 and 16M colors out of a machine that has 3 bit RGB registers? I can only get 512 MAXIMUM out of the ST, and that is with horizontal interrupts. Also, since when can the ST hardware handle more than 4 bitplanes? --Brett S Bourbin __ __ _ __ _ Instructional Computing Programs -- Univ of Maryland | || | / || || \ | || || || || | INTERNET: brett@SYLVESTER.UMD.EDU | || || || || | bbourbin@UMD5.UMD.EDU \_||_/ |__||__||__| BIX: brettb College Park BITNET: bbourbin@UMDD
NETOPRHM@NCSUVM.BITNET (Hal Meeks) (02/02/89)
So, we know that an expanded (presumably non-standard) Atari ST can display oodles of colors. Can you _animate_ something at that resolution, and with that many colors? How about import the file into a word processor? Or do RGB separations? And still run an image compression program for animation in the background? Use sound files for sound with your animation? NTSC compatable? Use a standard, widely accepted file format that is well documented? If not, it's basically a neat trick, and nothing more. I'm sorry, but I couldn't sit here and watch this any longer without commenting. Incidentally, when I mean standard, I mean something that can be bought from Atari, or something that Atari officially recognises and gives their blessing. --hal
blochowi@cat48.CS.WISC.EDU (Jason Blochowiak) (02/04/89)
I'm sorry, but "standard" has nothing to do with "officially endorsed by Atari". As a simple example of this: TINY, the compressed picture format for the ST, written by a friend of mine, David Mumper. It's used all over the place and I haven't heard him mention that Atari has sanctioned it...
jdutka@wpi.wpi.edu (John Dutka) (02/14/89)
In article <2224@puff.cs.wisc.edu> Jason Blochowiak writes: > I'm sorry, but "standard" has nothing to do with "officially endorsed >by Atari". As a simple example of this: TINY, the compressed picture format for >the ST, written by a friend of mine, David Mumper. It's used all over the place >and I haven't heard him mention that Atari has sanctioned it... I agree with you totally. However - you can also hack that on an Amiga if you try. Now for the standard specs - Amiga can display 4096 colors in a non-interlace mode with their new chip set. With overscan, I can reach a resolution of something like 720x480... Regardless of this, It doen't matter - people buy computers for their own reasons - I bought my Amiga for graphics production work, and for work on simple aerodynamics. For this, the Amiga suits me - no hacks necessary - the ST may suit you for the SAME reason. +--------------------------+----------------------------+--------------------+ | John A. Dutka (jdutka) | . . . .____. . | jdutka@wpi.bitnet | | Worcester Polytechnic | | | | | | | | jdutka@wpi.wpi.edu | | WPI Box 2308 | | | | |____| | | | | 100 Institute Road | | | | | | +--------------------+ | Worcester, MA 01609-2280 | |__|__| | | | "Lehr und Kunst." | | | (508) 792-1949 | | | | | Copyright 1989, Chris Moir | | +--------------------------+----------------------------+--------------------+