[comp.sys.atari.st] Atari ST mouse: is there an alternative?

litt@max.bnl.gov (Laurence Littenberg) (02/07/89)

From: litt@bnl-max (Laurence Littenberg)
Path: bnl-max!litt
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Atari ST mouse: is there an alternative?
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Reply-To: litt@max.bnl.gov (Laurence Littenberg)
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Organization: Brookhaven National Lab, Upton N.Y.
Keywords: Atari ST, mouse 


Our group has a number of Atari ST1040s, used mainly as graphics
terminals.  We have been having a certain problem, apparently well
known, with the mice.  After a while they stop being able to drag the cursor
properly.  Sometimes they can still drag it in one direction but not
in the opposite direction.  Sometimes they can move it, but very very
slowly.  The cursor also sometimes drifts up to the top of the screen, or
over to one side.  It's been possible to get them fixed or replaced, of
course, but it is a pain in the neck.  I'd like to know if there is
any more reliable alternative mouse (or other device which could serve 
the function) that could be adapted to the ST.

rjung@sal41.usc.edu (Robert allen Jung) (02/08/89)

>Our group has a number of Atari ST1040s, used mainly as graphics
>terminals.  We have been having a certain problem, apparently well
>known, with the mice.  After a while they stop being able to drag the cursor
>properly.  Sometimes they can still drag it in one direction but not
>in the opposite direction.  Sometimes they can move it, but very very
>slowly.  The cursor also sometimes drifts up to the top of the screen, or
>over to one side.  It's been possible to get them fixed or replaced, of
>course, but it is a pain in the neck.  I'd like to know if there is
>any more reliable alternative mouse (or other device which could serve 
>the function) that could be adapted to the ST.

  Have you tried to clean your mouse? I use the following method:

1. Clean the mouse balls (sounds obscene  B-). No big deal, give them a wipe
   with a tissue.

2. Clean the mouse rollers. Inside the ball cavity are two rollers, one
   for horizontal and vertical movement. Clean off _all_ the gunk and dirt
   you see on them. You may want to open up the mouse itself to do this
   (Trust me, it's harmless)

3. If steps #1 and #2 don't alleviate your problem, try spraying the diagonal
   roller (opposite from the horizontal/vertical rollers) with some WD-40,
   or other lubricant. You may also want to clean out the dirt that has
   accumulated there as well.

  Whenever my mouse acts weird (mostly extreme difficulties moving the cursor),
I do the above steps, and save myself $50.

						--R.J.
						B-)

P.S. I heard somebody's selling an optical mouse interface (Look Ma, no
moving parts) for the Atari ST. Does anybody have any details?

 =============================================================================
                 Disclaimer: This message was written with my authorization
      # ## #
      # ## #     Mailing address: rjung@nunki.usc.edu
     ## ## ##          (It's easier to just use the reply function, tho)
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c60c-3ds@e260-4g.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) (02/08/89)

I realize this may only be adding nose, but I've had similar problems
when I use an Atari trackball (modified) in place of the mouse.  I've
suspected it's the trackball (because the problems went away when I un-
plugged and re-installed the trackball).  A switch to disconnect the mouse
may be a reasonable stopgap solution.  Maybe it's a combination of a
faulty mouse and a bug in the keyboard chip.

the problems I mentioned are the pointer starts to go in only one direction
after a while.

sbrown@bgsuvax.UUCP (Scott F. Brown) (02/09/89)

	This is in response to an earlier posting about the problems with the
ST's mouse.  The symptoms of the problem are that the mouse has trouble moving
around the screen and trouble dragging.  This is the exact same problem I had a
few months ago.  What was wrong is that due to the way someone set up the mouse
port in the ST is that the mouse cord must bend often at two key points when the
mouse is moved.  The points are where the cord leaves the port and bends around
to go in the direction of the mouse and the second is the point where the cord
leaves the mouse.  What happens is that these two points, after bending many
times, will have wires inside the cord break.  A way to prove this is that
you can often move the cord and get the mouse to work normally again.  The
way I fixed it was to remove about 2 inches of wire from the front of the
mouse and reconnecting the wires.  To prevent this from happening again, I
suggest that you, if you have the skills, to make a rear mouse port on the ST.
It is simple to do.  Open up the ST until it is easy to get at the mouse and
then make an extension from the original port to the rear.  You then make a
hole in the rear and stick the original mouse port there.  This puts the mouse
port where it should be.  I hope this helps your problem.  As for an alternate  mouse, I know of none.

							- Scott F. Brown

 

fyl@ssc.UUCP (Phil Hughes) (02/09/89)

In article <733@bnlux0.bnl.gov>, litt@max.bnl.gov (Laurence Littenberg) writes:

> Our group has a number of Atari ST1040s, used mainly as graphics
> terminals.  We have been having a certain problem, apparently well
> known, with the mice.  After a while they stop being able to drag the cursor
> properly. 
>                                        I'd like to know if there is
> any more reliable alternative mouse (or other device which could serve 
> the function) that could be adapted to the ST.

Sure.  First, if you take them apart you can probably temporarily
fix them (until the next time you drop one).  The problem is generally
alingment of the opto interruptor.  There is a screw on each one that
can be used to tweek its position.  Warning, however: the mouse may
work fine with the cover off because the room light strikes the
phototransistor at a different angle.

The real solution is a track ball.  It doesn't get lost and seems to
be real reliable.  I got one for EA Brown Co. and we have been using
it for over a year with no problem.  Here is how to get it:
	# 340-400 ST Mouseball II    $39.95
	E. A. Brown Co.
	800-322-4405

-- 
Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155  (206)FOR-UNIX
    uw-beaver!tikal!ssc!fyl or uunet!pilchuck!ssc!fyl or attmail!ssc!fyl

c08_d102@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU (Stdnt102) (02/10/89)

In article <2623@nunki.usc.edu> rjung@sal41.usc.edu (Robert  allen Jung) writes:
>[original article about problems with mice deleted]
>  Have you tried to clean your mouse? I use the following method:
>[steps 1 and 2 useful and harmless]
>3. If steps #1 and #2 don't alleviate your problem, try spraying the diagonal
>   roller (opposite from the horizontal/vertical rollers) with some WD-40,
>   or other lubricant. You may also want to clean out the dirt that has
>   accumulated there as well.
>						--R.J.
   Pardon my hysteria, but DON'T USE WD-40 ON ELECTRONIC EQUIPMENT.
It's ELECTROSTATIC.  The mouse MAY be safe, but I personally wouldn't
risk it.

   There's another product, something like Tweaky-Clean (Jerry Pournelle
likes this stuff, whatever it's name really is; look in his columns for
references to it) which is quite safe and effective for use with
electronics.  WD-40 is auto lubricant, I think . . .

--
Jared J. Brennan <c08_d102@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
BITNET: C08_D102@JHUNIX			ARPA: c08_d102%jhunix@hopkins.ARPA
UUCP: allegra!hopkins!jhunix!c08_d102	"Help me, Spock!"

ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu (Lee Dickey) (02/10/89)

In article <2623@nunki.usc.edu> rjung@sal41.usc.edu (Robert  allen Jung) writes:
>>     We have been having a certain problem, apparently well
>>known, with the mice.

>  Have you tried to clean your mouse? I use the following method:



I had a 1040 ST for about two years, and had no trouble to speak of with
any aspect of hardware.  In November, I traded up to a Mega ST2.  As
many of you know, I like to use Gulam and prefer using keystrokes to
using the mouse, so my mouse does not get a lot of wear. 

The day after I read the above messages, I was using the mouse and
noticed that the arrow liked to go to the right but not to the left.  I
did what I had done several times before with the mouse on the 1040,
clean the lint from the ball and the rollers.  I even took off the cover
and cleaned the rollers and disk from above. 

But this time the problem persists.  I have not mis-treated the cord,
which lies slack on my desktop, so I doubt broken wires in this case. 

Now, I am worried.  Any other suggestions?  Since this is a "one way"
problem, I suspect a diode in the motion detection circuit inside the
mouse.  Any insight or suggestions would be appreciated. 

-- 
    L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
	ljdickey@water.UWaterloo.ca	ljdickey@water.BITNET
	ljdickey@water.UUCP		..!uunet!watmath!water!ljdickey
	ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu	

jeff@tekcsc.MKT.TEK.COM (Jeff Beadles) (02/13/89)

In article <733@bnlux0.bnl.gov> litt@bnl-max (Laurence Littenberg) writes:

>Our group has a number of Atari ST1040s, used mainly as graphics
>terminals.  We have been having a certain problem, apparently well
>known, with the mice.  After a while they stop being able to drag the cursor
>properly.  Sometimes they can still drag it in one direction but not
>in the opposite direction.  Sometimes they can move it, but very very
>slowly.  The cursor also sometimes drifts up to the top of the screen, or
>over to one side.  It's been possible to get them fixed or replaced, of
>course, but it is a pain in the neck.  I'd like to know if there is
>any more reliable alternative mouse (or other device which could serve 
>the function) that could be adapted to the ST.

Well, I have been using a new-style MicroSoft mouse on my Atari for quite
some time now.  It's got a much nicer feel than the square-type Atari
mouse.  There's a couple of ways to go about it.  I happened to find
someone with a connector that the MicroSoft mouse's connector would plug
into.  Then, I just made an adaptor to take the 9-pin D connector to the
MicroSoft style of connector.  This will work with either the buss or
serial Microsoft mouse.  All Microsoft mice are buss.  The serial mouse has
a little box that converts it to parallel.  If you bought either, you have
the connector that it takes to plug into the mouse cable.  This does not
require you to take your ST apart, and as far as I know it doesn't void
your warranty.  (I may be wrong, ask Atari if you're concerned.)

I've been meaning to document what wire goes where.  If I get enough
request, maybe I'll to it a little sooner. :-)


	Jeff Beadles

---
jeff@hammer.GWD.TEK.COM

greg@sce.carleton.ca (Greg Franks) (02/13/89)

In article <733@bnlux0.bnl.gov> litt@bnl-max (Laurence Littenberg) writes:
>Our group has a number of Atari ST1040s, used mainly as graphics
>terminals.  We have been having a certain problem, apparently well
>known, with the mice.  After a while they stop being able to drag the cursor
>properly.  Sometimes they can still drag it in one direction but not
>in the opposite direction.  Sometimes they can move it, but very very
>slowly.  The cursor also sometimes drifts up to the top of the screen, or
>over to one side.  It's been possible to get them fixed or replaced, of
>course, but it is a pain in the neck.  I'd like to know if there is
>any more reliable alternative mouse (or other device which could serve 
>the function) that could be adapted to the ST.


My Atari 1040STf's original mouse bit the dust in the manner you
described.  I had it fixed once.  It broke down again a few months
later.  So I tossed that mouse and got a replacement.  The original
mouse was made in Taiwan, the new one, Japan.  The guy at the shop
said that the Japanese mice (!) were much more reliable.  I have long
since forgotten why.

Good luck!


-- 
Greg Franks                  Systems and Computer Engineering, 
utzoo!dciem!nrcaer!sce!greg  Carleton University, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.
       uunet!mitel!sce!greg          greg@sce.carleton.ca
from Ottawa Ont, where life in the fast lane is skating two inners!

clf3678@ultb.UUCP (C.L. Freemesser) (02/16/89)

I also have the Japanese mouse, and aside from the left button starting
to give out (as they all will do sooner or later), it hasn't given me
ANY trouble.


As a matter of fact, I just replaced the mouse cord on my father's
Japanese mouse, but seeing that it is 3.5 years old (it was the first
1040 in town), and he abuses the livin' heck out of it, it isn't
surprising.

=cf=

bITNET: %clf3678@ritvaxb

VBRANDT@DBNUAMA1.BITNET (03/07/89)

In Info-Atari16 Digest V89 #44, Lee J. Dickey writes:                          :

>I had a 1040 ST for about two years, and had no trouble to speak of with
>any aspect of hardware.  In November, I traded up to a Mega ST2.  As
>many of you know, I like to use Gulam and prefer using keystrokes to
>using the mouse, so my mouse does not get a lot of wear.

Same here (except that I upgraded in July '88, and to a Mega 4).

>... noticed that the arrow liked to go to the right but not to the left.  I
>did what I had done several times before with the mouse on the 1040,
>clean the lint from the ball and the rollers.  I even took off the cover
>and cleaned the rollers and disk from above.

Well, my arrow didn't like to go up or down. This problem came and went.
I, too, opened and thoroughly cleaned the beast.

>But this time the problem persists.  I have not mis-treated the cord,
>which lies slack on my desktop, so I doubt broken wires in this case.

Same here. Worse, sometimes the mouse arrow starts 'wandering' in little
(one-pixel) increments.

>Now, I am worried.  Any other suggestions?  Since this is a "one way"
>problem, I suspect a diode in the motion detection circuit inside the
>mouse.  Any insight or suggestions would be appreciated.

Since my mouse sometimes moves on its own, I suspect the optical detector
(don't know the tech term, the thingie that sits behind the little wheel
opposite the light source :-).

Solution?  I have no idea. Maybe some friendly EE can come up with a more
accurate description of how the mouse works (or even a part # to replace).

##### WARNING: FLAMES AND UNPROVEN ALLEGATIONS AHEAD #####

Strangely, Atari Germany offers a "DM 50 new mouse trade-in policy", whereas
normally they won't even sell motherboards. Maybe there are some mouse pro-
duction problems ?????  Also, since they changed from the 'Japan mouse' to
the 'Taiwan mouse', quality has decreased drastically. After a year of regular
(ie daily but not excessive) use, the left mouse button usually fails. So this
is 'power without the price' ... maybe it's only Atari Germany behaving weird.
(Wouldn't be the first time ...)

##### ENDWARNING ####

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Bitnet:  VBRANDT@DBNUAMA1                              Volker A. Brandt
UUCP:    ...!unido!DBNUAMA1.bitnet!vbrandt             Angewandte Mathematik
ARPAnet: VBRANDT%DBNUAMA1.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU       (Bonn, West Germany)

coffey@ucselx.uucp (pat coffey) (03/08/89)

In article <8903061707.AA18570@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> VBRANDT@DBNUAMA1.BITNET writes:
>   ...     Worse, sometimes the mouse arrow starts 'wandering' in little
>(one-pixel) increments.
>
I have an Atari 520 ST (a very early model) with an A.E. Brown 1 meg
upgrade.  I noticed that my mouse arrow 'wanders' with 2 programs.
For some reason, both programs were on partition F of my 20 meg Supra
hard drive.  I thought it was a problem with memory.  Does anyone out
there have any ideas on what causes the 'wandering mouse arrow' ?  The
2 programs it happens in are: the demo version of Calamus and the
GFA Basic program from STart magazine.

Since I thought the 'wandering mouse' was a software bug, I dumped both
of those programs from my hard disk.
 

     _   _        Ms. Pat Coffey    
    |_) (_        San Diego State University
    |