dag@per2.UUCP (Daniel A. Glasser) (03/14/89)
I'm the person who posted a few days ago about the trouble that I'm having
running ELITE(tm) from Rainbird Software on my ST. (Joystick problems)
I've encountered another problem which is more serious.
If I play the game using the keyboard to control the ship, the program
runs for a while and then bombs with either 11 or 22 bombs (I think it's
11 bombs, since that's the Line-F emulator trap, and exception 22 is
listed as "reserved" in my M68000 reference -- the resolution changes
to medium after the bombs appear, however, and I end up with 22 bombs
and some strange artifacts on the screen) shortly after I leave hyperspace
or when I've been practice docking for a while.
I've tried this with the mouse and joystick attached and removed in
various combinations. I've also tried it with the serial, MIDI, hard disk
and printer devices unplugged. Same thing. I have a RAM upgrade in my
ST which gives me a total of 1meg, and a Z-time clock chip sandwiched in
one of the ROM sockets on the system board. I doubt that either would
be a problem. I've not had any problems with my RAM upgrade with other
products. (This is one of the solderless upgrades which piggybacks with
the shifter and has fingers which contact with the "MMU" chip.
As far as I can tell, I'm having no trouble with any other programs, though
I must admit that I don't have many other "arcade" games (WizBall, MIDI-maze,
and some PD stuff...) and programs like ELITE(tm) might just push my ST
beyond its operational limits...
There was a problem a long time ago with some M68000's where under some
"rare" instances the program counter or stack pointer would get screwed
up when one interrupt came in while the processor was executing an RTE
(or RTI), or something like that... I don't have the exact details.
Is it possible that the M68K in my ST is of this vintage? I encountered
this problem (and we received a revised chip) while working for DEC back
sometime in 1984.
Any help is appreciated.
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Daniel A. Glasser One of those things that goes
uwvax!per2!dag "BUMP!!!(ouch)" in the night.
---Persoft, Inc.---------465 Science Drive-------Madison, WI 53711-----------john@stag.UUCP (John Stanley) (03/19/89)
[dag@per2.UUCP (Daniel A. Glasser) writes...] > I'm the person who posted a few days ago about the trouble that I'm having > running ELITE(tm) from Rainbird Software on my ST. (Joystick problems) > I've encountered another problem which is more serious. Hi Dan. The problem you 1st described is symptomatic of too much time spent inside a hi priority interrupt. The keyboard processor doesn't do any handshaking with the 68000. When the keyboard is ready to tell the ST about a keypress or a mouse action, your machine has to be ready to grab the data fairly quick, or it's lost. If this happens, the 2nd byte of the keyboard message packet is interpreted as if it were the 1st with odd consequences. (Most often, this causes a series of repeating ESC keypresses that stop when you hit some other key on the keyboard.) This is often caused by "background" programs, multitaskers, or TSRs like corner clocks. If you have anything loaded, try running the game from a completely unloaded machine. > If I play the game using the keyboard to control the ship, the program > runs for a while and then bombs with either 11 or 22 bombs (I think it's > 11 bombs, since that's the Line-F emulator trap, and exception 22 is > listed as "reserved" in my M68000 reference -- the resolution changes > to medium after the bombs appear, however, and I end up with 22 bombs > and some strange artifacts on the screen) shortly after I leave hyperspace > or when I've been practice docking for a while. This is another bug I've seen before. It's "normaly" caused by programs that can't keep up with a fast typing rate and is actualy a bug in the OS that bombs-out when the keyboard buffer overflows. Both problems point to "something" that is causing your machine to spend lots of time doing something other than running ELITE (probably something in a high priority interrupt). If you do have lots of accessories and TSR programs, I'd try running Elite with them unloaded. If you don't, then I'd suggest you have your machine checked out by a good service center. > Any help is appreciated. I hope this does help... --- John Stanley <dynasoft!john@stag.UUCP> Software Consultant / Dynasoft Systems
dag@per2.UUCP (Daniel A. Glasser) (03/21/89)
In article <0218891426200604@dynasoft.UUCP>, dynasoft!john@stag.UUCP (John Stanley) writes: [quoted description of joystick problem deleted] > Hi Dan. The problem you 1st described is symptomatic of too much > time spent inside a hi priority interrupt. The keyboard processor > doesn't do any handshaking with the 68000. When the keyboard is > ready to tell the ST about a keypress or a mouse action, your machine > has to be ready to grab the data fairly quick, or it's lost. If this > happens, the 2nd byte of the keyboard message packet is interpreted > as if it were the 1st with odd consequences. (Most often, this > causes a series of repeating ESC keypresses that stop when you hit > some other key on the keyboard.) This is often caused by "background" > programs, multitaskers, or TSRs like corner clocks. If you have > anything loaded, try running the game from a completely unloaded > machine. This problem is occuring without any background programs. There are no desk accessories, no TSRs. I know what the symptom is and I know about out-of-sync packets. I always run Elite with my hard drive turned off and booting the program from power-up. [quoted description of 11 bombs on screen deleted] > This is another bug I've seen before. It's "normaly" caused by > programs that can't keep up with a fast typing rate and is actualy a > bug in the OS that bombs-out when the keyboard buffer overflows. It is because I know about these problems that I posted my query -- There must be something wrong with my hardware to keep it running too slow for the game. I want to know if there is some ikbd incompatibility where the keyboard is sending joystick reports too fast for the system to process them -- not at too fast a baud rate, just too close together. > Both problems point to "something" that is causing your machine to > spend lots of time doing something other than running ELITE (probably > something in a high priority interrupt). If you do have lots of > accessories and TSR programs, I'd try running Elite with them > unloaded. If you don't, then I'd suggest you have your machine > checked out by a good service center. Unfortunatly, there is no such thing in the Madison, WI, area. > > Any help is appreciated. > > I hope this does help... > Your help is appreciated. Thanks, Daniel Glasser -- _____________________________________________________________________________ Daniel A. Glasser One of those things that goes uwvax!per2!dag "BUMP!!!(ouch)" in the night. ---Persoft, Inc.---------465 Science Drive-------Madison, WI 53711-----------
S.Usher@ucl-cs.UUCP (03/22/89)
From: S.Usher@uk.ac.ucl.cs From what I've found, the mouse and keyboard are read VERY slowly relative to the rest of the program, so ANY slowing of the program WILL cause these problems. (I've also noticed that the display panel is also a low priority task in ELITE, that is why it is so difficult to get a fix on the planet/ station when you rotate the ship). At some points in the program I've noticed a 3 SECOND delay between moving the joystick/mouse and the action having any effect! I still think the original version on the Acorn BBC micro is the best version using the proportional joystick! (The BBC has a built in analogue port). Stephen Usher. Addresses: Janet...UK network address standards. S.Usher@uk.ac.ucl.cs or UCACMSU@uk.ac.ucl.euclid -8<----------------- Cut ------------------- Here --------------------------
bro@titan.rice.edu (Douglas Monk) (03/23/89)
I couldn't send this directly, so here goes: Just a couple of possibilities: When I have my hard disk attached, I have problems using my Translator-One (Mac disk reading device) whether the hard drive is on or off. You might see if detaching the hard disk changes things. Secondly, I remember reading about certain types of joysticks PUT OUT BY ATARI that could be used OK, but prevented the machine from booting correctly, so that you had to unplug them, boot the machine, then plug them in again. I don't recall the specifics, unfortunately, other than that they were NOT the standard basic joystick, but were intended for one of the upscale Atari game machines. (7800?) So, you might try booting with no joystick and then plugging one in to see if that makes a difference. Experimentally yours, Doug Monk (bro@rice.edu) Disclaimer: These views are mine, not necessarily my organization's.
ajy2208%ritcv@cs.rit.edu (03/24/89)
7800 Joysticks? Hmmm. Come to think of it, I remember trying to use those on a Mega ST several months ago. I also remember having problems using the computer with those joysticks, so we stopped using them! I believe the only difference between the old Atari joysticks and the newer 7800 joysticks (decides the shape of the thing) is that the 7800 joysticks have a second button that is independent of the first. This is great for games like Xevious, Desert Falcon, and Choplifter (all of which use both buttons), but apparently not for the ST!! Not related to the 7800 joystick problem, a friend and I have noticed that many programs don't run properly when a MIDI Keyboard is plugged into the computer. The usual problem is that the mouse and joysticks don't work... Unplugging the keyboard and then rebooting the computer always fixes that problem. To the person who is experiencing problems with Elite: I hope you are able to overcome the difficulties, as Elite on the ST is a great game!!! Albert Yarusso, Bitnet: ajy2208@ritvax.bitnet Internet: ajy2208.ultb.rit.edu