mars@athena.mit.edu (Anita) (03/28/89)
I'd like to know what the average Atari ST user is like. The Atari ST users I know have a serious commitment to the machine(not the company) and to the Hacker Ethic in its purest form(joy of computers for the sake of computing). What motivated all you ST users to buy the ST? Personally, since the days of the 2600, I've been an Atari fan. After seeing the 800, I became an Atari loyalists. Everywhere I went, people called the Atari a game machine, and claimed it inferior, which made me very protective of Atari and furthered my loyality. I followed Atari's every move. I planned to buy an Amiga when Atari still retained control of it, but didn't purely because the name Atari wasn't on it. When the ST came out, I snatched mine up. That is my justification. Why would any of you buy the ST when the IBM has more support, the Apple has more innovation, and the Amiga more power?
35002_3025@uwovax.uwo.ca (03/28/89)
In article <10156@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, mars@athena.mit.edu (Anita) writes: > I'd like to know what the average Atari ST user is like. The Atari ST > users I know have a serious commitment to the machine(not the company) > and to the Hacker Ethic in its purest form(joy of computers for the > sake of computing). What motivated all you ST users to buy the ST? > Personally, since the days of the 2600, I've been an Atari fan. After > seeing the 800, I became an Atari loyalists. Everywhere I went, > people called the Atari a game machine, and claimed it inferior, which > made me very protective of Atari and furthered my loyality. I > followed Atari's every move. I planned to buy an Amiga when Atari > still retained control of it, but didn't purely because the name Atari > wasn't on it. When the ST came out, I snatched mine up. That is my > justification. Why would any of you buy the ST when the IBM has more > support, the Apple has more innovation, and the Amiga more power? I bought my St simly because it is a ice, friendly machine. More than that, locally we have a delaer who sells and, horrors, rents programs - about 750 in stock at the present time. All of the important programs are in place - Word Perfect, a Lotus klone, a Dbase klone, and lots of programming utilities. Any others are icing on the cake as far as I am concerned. Also it is nice having a proper VT-100 emulator. I use IBM's at schoold all the time and I find them to be klunky and unpleasant - I really miss my mouse! The number lock drives me up the wall and down the other side. The cheap monochrome displays are really cheap - and harsh on the eyes. Sure there may be lots of software for the IBm and the Mac, but now that we have excellent emulators we are laughing. The Ibm can not emulate anything very well at all - despite the fact that one of our academic support services people (read computer instructor) tells me that emuation is "never any good". Sounds like jealousy to me... The St is a nice achine to come home to - it greets me like a friend. Gem is a godsend. Word Perfect for the ST is a miracle. By the way, IBM's running Procomm - supposedly one of the best terminal emulators for the IBM can not dislay a proper VT-100 screen and yet Uniterm can. I think that this says something about the "lowly" ST. Kevin-john Conway ...a librarian from hell... School of Library and Information Science University of Western Ontario London Canada "...deviants from the norm..." "My ideas may be silly, but I'm not. I'm positively skewed!" 35002_3025@uwovax.uwo.ca conway@uwovax.bitnet kjc@uwovax.bitnet
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (03/28/89)
In article <10156@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>, mars@athena.mit.edu (Anita) writes: > I'd like to know what the average Atari ST user is like. The Atari ST .... > justification. Why would any of you buy the ST when the IBM has more > support, the Apple has more innovation, and the Amiga more power? When I bought my 1040 ST the price was VERY attractive (maybe $750 or so mail order). The performance has consistently been comparable to a PC AT. Disks are readily exchanged with PS-2 s. At the time, Commodore looked like an even bet to go bust. Even now, I'm not certain that the Amiga offers an amateur programmer more than the ST does. As far as innovation from Apple, they don't seem to be innovating in any direction I want to go. Anyway, th Mac is a nightmare to BEGIN programming on (people tell me you get used to it). And of course, ST software is less expensive on average than IBM or Apple. So as the original article stated, we ST people who talk on the net aren't exactly the biggest segment of the computer market. I view the ST as an 'amateurized' PDP [8 or 11], and as such it's still a wonderful hacking station, capable of worthwhile practical use.
root@TSfR.UUCP (usenet) (03/29/89)
In article <10156@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> mars@athena.mit.edu (Andy) writes: >Why would any of you buy the ST when the IBM has more >support, the Apple has more innovation, and the Amiga more power? I preferred the 68000, I couldn't afford the Apple, and I don't do graphics. The ST was a good cheap _fast_ 68000 box with a nice monochrome monitor. Apple makes better software, but fortunately there are ST people who have hacked Mac compatability onto the ST so that I can play Cheapo-Mac in the comfort of my own home. And of the three 68000 boxes that were available in '85, the 68000 was the fastest (remember: I don't do graphics, so it's just a matter of clock speed.) And there are no religions based on the Atari ST, unlike the little cults associated with the Mac, the Amiga, and the IBM. Now that most of my initial enthusiasm for the ST is long dead, it's very nice to not have people praising misfeatures as the second coming of Christ. -david parsons -orc@pell.uucp
rjung@castor.usc.edu (Robert allen Jung) (03/29/89)
In article <10156@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> mars@athena.mit.edu (Andy) writes: >I'd like to know what the average Atari ST user is like. Why not? Atari users seem to consist of a group with a unique (and slightly maschoistic B-) streak; Maybe we can nail something down. > The Atari ST >users I know have a serious commitment to the machine(not the company) >and to the Hacker Ethic in its purest form(joy of computers for the >sake of computing). Count me in. Forget the bureaucrats, forget the formalities, let's get to hat keyboard and WRITE CODE! > What motivated all you ST users to buy the ST? I originally started out on an Atari 800. It was either that or the Apple //, and I found the Apple's graphics and sound to be extremely pathetic (yeah, I was going to write video games on the darn machine -- See above). I still have that 800, right here. Moving to the ST was, for me, mostly because the ST delivered a LOT of features for a VERY LOW price. I mean, sure it doesn't have the frills and the extra "fluff" of the Macintosh, but it GETS THE JOB DONE. I'm still waiting for the day when I regret my decision. >Everywhere I went, >people called the Atari a game machine, and claimed it inferior, which >made me very protective of Atari and furthered my loyality. I think a lot of Atari users have that feeling. To some degree, each of us walks around with a chip on our shoulders, watching out whenever some wiseacre calls our machine a glorified VIC-20. >Why would any of you buy the ST when the IBM has more >support, the Apple has more innovation, and the Amiga more power? I'll agree that the IBM has more support (why else are Atarians maschoistic? B-), but are you sure the Mac has more innovations and the Amiga more power? I'm not convinced. --R.J. B-) ============================================================================= Disclaimer: This message was written with my authorization # ## # # ## # Mailing address: rjung@nunki.usc.edu ## ## ## (It's easier to just use the reply function, tho) #### ## ####
rjd@brunix (Rob Demillo) (03/29/89)
In article <1951@uwovax.uwo.ca> 35002_3025@uwovax.uwo.ca writes: > By the way, IBM's running Procomm - supposedly one of the best terminal >emulators for the IBM can not dislay a proper VT-100 screen and yet Uniterm can. >I think that this says something about the "lowly" ST. > >Kevin-john Conway No, it just says something about the programming of both packages. There is *no* hardware/software reason why the PROCOMM package for the IBM should not be able to perfectly emulate a VT-100, as well as a VT-2xx and a Tektronix 40xx. It just doesn't because the programmers did not spend enough time debugging/writing code. (For that matter, UniTerm is not without its bugs: the Tektronix code to return to VTxxx mode is not faithfully emulated.) UniTerm is more a testimony to the patience/endurance/ability of Simon Poole than the ST. - Rob DeMillo | UUCP: ...ima!brunix!rjd Brown University | BITnet: DEMILLO%BRNPSG.SPAN@STAR.STANFORD.EDU Planetary Science Group | Reality: 401-863-3769 "I say you *are* the Messiah, Lord! And I ought to know, I've followed a few!"
ericg@sco.COM (Editing Reality) (03/30/89)
mars@athena.mit.edu (Andy) wrote in article <10156@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU>: ]I'd like to know what the average Atari ST user is like. The Atari ST Back in 1980, I was working for a (mostly games) company that put out software for the Apple ][ and the Atari 800. With the exception of the disk drive design, the Atari was a better machine: The Antic chip and GTIA chips were exceptional for game writing and screen handling. The Atari 800 OS was a positively amazing piece of work given the size of the machine. Eventually, when I had enough money, I bought one. It served well until about 1987, when I decided that I wanted more power and I wanted to be able to transfer things to and from a UNIX environment. The choice was either an Amiga or an Atari. The Amiga offered better sound and slightly better graphics, but at a much greater price. The old, massively reliable 8-bit, made me choose Atari. It has as much processing power as I need, good graphics and (with a Tweety Board installed) good sound, and is easy to develop personal software for. I pretty much fall into the "Compute for the sake of computing" crowd. -- Eric Griswold (ericg@sco.COM) "That's no baby. That's a Mr. Potatohead" I do not speak for SCO, I barely have enough room for my own opinions.
danscott@atari.UUCP (Dan Scott) (03/30/89)
in article <515@TSfR.UUCP>, root@TSfR.UUCP (usenet) says: > And there are no religions based on the Atari ST, unlike the little cults > associated with the Mac, the Amiga, and the IBM. Now that most of my > initial enthusiasm for the ST is long dead, it's very nice to not have > people praising misfeatures as the second coming of Christ. I've never heard it put in quite that mannor....I kinda like the analogy..... Dan@Atari.UUCP
IanS@cup.portal.com (Ian Matthew Smith) (03/30/89)
mars@athena.mit.edu (Anita) writes... >... I know have a serious commitment to the machine(not the company) >and to the Hacker Ethic in its purest form(joy of computers for the >sake of computing). What motivated all you ST users to buy the... :-) Wow, somone who knows of the "Hacker Ethic". We should form a club. :-) :-) >...followed Atari's every move. I planned to buy an Amiga when Atari >still retained control of it, but didn't purely because the name Atari >wasn't on it. When the ST came out, I snatched mine up. That is... What happend was that a group of people RJ Miner (designed the 400- and 800), Dale Luck, and others got together to design a computer. They were doing great but the computer market fell out then (1983-85) and they had to sell. So they went to Sears, Sony, Philips, Apple, and finaly Atari. Atari offered $1 a share and $500,000 in cash. Atari also was not interested in the people, just the hardware. So they took the 500 thousand on the idea that Atari would own the Amiga if they did not pay back the money in 30 days. On day 26 Commodore called and made them an offer of $4 a share. So 3 days later they finally decided on an offer of $4.25 a share and Commodore would hire them on as programmers. On day 30 Dave Morris presented Jack Tramiel with a $500,000 check from Commodore and Amiga became the property of Commodore. No flame, just some information. Ian_Matthew_Smith@cup.portal.com (IanS)
disd@hubcap.clemson.edu (Gary Heffelfinger) (03/30/89)
From article <1416@atari.UUCP>, by danscott@atari.UUCP (Dan Scott): > in article <515@TSfR.UUCP>, root@TSfR.UUCP (usenet) says: > >> And there are no religions based on the Atari ST, unlike the little cults >> associated with the Mac, the Amiga, and the IBM. Now that most of my >> initial enthusiasm for the ST is long dead, it's very nice to not have >> people praising misfeatures as the second coming of Christ. > > > I've never heard it put in quite that mannor....I kinda like the > analogy..... > Yeah, it sounds nice, but we all know that there are those who worship *all* flavors of computers, languages, editors, etc. So I don't buy it. Gary (Amiga cultist :-) -- Gary R Heffelfinger - Not speaking for Clemson University disd@hubcap.clemson.edu -- FIX the Holodeck -- Furman Paladins --- National Champs!!
rjd@brunix (Rob Demillo) (03/30/89)
In article <515@TSfR.UUCP> orc@pell.UUCP (David L. Parsons) writes: >In article <10156@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> mars@athena.mit.edu (Andy) writes: >>Why would any of you buy the ST when the IBM has more >>support, the Apple has more innovation, and the Amiga more power? > > And there are no religions based on the Atari ST, unlike the little cults > associated with the Mac, the Amiga, and the IBM. Now that most of my > initial enthusiasm for the ST is long dead, it's very nice to not have > people praising misfeatures as the second coming of Christ. > > -david parsons An excellent quote from David... Another point is simply choice. I have no qualms with any of the other machines. (Except the Mac, more in a sec.) I own an IBM XT as well as my ST. I am also going to be purchasing a 386 based machine and a NeXT in the next 6 months, but I still have a warm spot for the ST. It's *fun* to program on... The Mac is the only machine in the list you gave that I have real, deepseated biases against. (In fact, in the 15+ years I have been programming, it is the only computer I have come across that I refuse to think about.) I have real problems with the design philosophy, the overburdening of the 68000 chip, the way in which Apple 'appropriated' the Mac OS and then claim it as their own, etc etc etc... In addition, as David pointed out, I have a real hard time with the Mac-ideology that the users cling to... On the other hand... There is a *serious* ideology problem among the Atari users, as well...and I think I can trace it back to the old 8 bit, local user group days. I have never, *ever*, *EVER* in 15 years of computing seen a more cavalier attitude toward software piracy as I have in the Atari community. Not *ever.* Not in the days of the commodore Pet, not in the Kaypro days, not even in the current Mac community (which has to be the second highest rate of software theft around, by the way). So, once again, computing preferences are a matter of personal choice.. - Rob DeMillo | UUCP: ...ima!brunix!rjd Brown University | BITnet: DEMILLO%BRNPSG.SPAN@STAR.STANFORD.EDU Planetary Science Group | Reality: 401-863-3769 "I say you *are* the Messiah, Lord! And I ought to know, I've followed a few!"
jdutka@wpi.wpi.edu (John Dutka) (03/31/89)
In article <1416@atari.UUCP>, danscott@atari.UUCP (Dan Scott) writes: > in article <515@TSfR.UUCP>, root@TSfR.UUCP (usenet) says: > > And there are no religions based on the Atari ST, unlike the little cults > > associated with the Mac, the Amiga, and the IBM. Now that most of my > > initial enthusiasm for the ST is long dead, it's very nice to not have > > people praising misfeatures as the second coming of Christ. > > I've never heard it put in quite that mannor....I kinda like the > analogy..... I don't. There are the little "cult groups" with ALL computers, including the Ataris. I know...I've run into a few of the little buggers on local BBS systems, computers shows I've helped organize, computer shops, and so on. This claim that there are no "religions" based on the ST is one of the most blatant mistakes I've ever read here.
gjh@otter.hpl.hp.com (Graham Higgins) (03/31/89)
I am a very recent Atarist (< 4 weeks). A colleague and I at Hewlett-Packard Labs Bristol both got 1040STFMs at the same time. We spent some time looking at both the Amiga and the ST and finally formed the _opinion_ that the ST was the better bet for our purposes (he intends to a "rational reconstruction" of LISP and I intend to use it for high-level-language programming). We finally settled for a compromise, although the Amiga has the edge on graphics, comparing the general graphics abilities of the Amiga/ST axis with those of price-comparable machines, the Amiga/ST graphics are far superior and we felt that the ST has adequate graphics for our purposes. Our initial feeling was that there was a broader software base for the ST - it had the edge over the Amiga in that respect --- although since the purchase, I have discovered a rapidly broadening Amiga s/w base. However, we also like playing the occasional game and using advanced packages like DTP, we thought that the s/w base for this was marginally better for the ST. An additional factor in our choice was the fact that a wide variety of emulators are available. We have strong grounds for expecting Alphapop to run on one or other of Mac emulators. Alphapop is a Mac version of an AI programming environment called POPLOG. POPLOG has quite a sizeable user base in the U.K. and my colleague and I use it professionally for AI research --- getting this on the ST would be a major plus! -- for a review of Alphapop, see Byte, May 1988. We both have use of HP Vectra PCs and to be able to run PC applications (albeit slowly) without having to lash out serious money for a hardware emulator was a plus factor. The availability of a PD CP/M emulator is useful to me, as I maintain a library of PD CP/M software for a local CP/M machine (Tatung Einstein, if you _must_ know) user group. We were also concerned with possible upgrade paths, the potential memory upgrade to 2.5Mb was attractive, as was the possibility of adding a hard disk later (very much later, they are _very_ severe prices when compared to PC hard disks). All of this applies to the Amiga of course, so the two systems were more or less equal in this respect. Finally, there was a 100 pound (sterling) price differential in favour of the ST, which meant that for much the same price as an Amiga 500, we could get a 1040STFM. Already, I find the extra memory invaluable. As far as the machine itself goes, I have been around computers of many different sizes and capabilities for a while now. I use a range of machines professionally and HP's researchers generally do pretty well for kit, so my expectations of a 400-pound (sterling) home computer are not overweening. Having said that, my colleague is well pleased with the improvement over his previous home computer (a Sinclair Spectrum) and I can say the same. Having the 68000 at one's disposal makes a big change from flogging a Z80 to death! I'm happy with it --- it isn't a Cray, but I didn't buy a Cray! Cheers, Graham ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------ Graham Higgins @ HP Labs | Phone: (0272) 799910 x 24060 Information Systems Centre | gray@hpl.hp.co.uk Bristol | gray%hplb.uucp@ukc.ac.uk U.K. | gray@hplb.hpl.hp.com
ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu (Lee Dickey) (04/01/89)
Someone askes:
> ... ). What motivated all you ST users to buy the ST?
Are you familiar with the book "Computer Wimp" by Baer?
It is published by the Ten Speed Press, the same folks
that gave you "What Color is your Parachute?"
Well, in that book, Baer says to pick your software, and then
find a machine that will run it. I took that recommendation
to heart. In my case, I picked APL, the most productive
language I know. I had used APL on mainframes since 1970,
had used it on the IBM PC, and was looking for a better
operating system. When I learned that APL.68000 was
being ported to the ST, and that the ST came with a terminal
emulator, I was convinced. We also needed a new typewriter at
home. The price of these exceeded that of a printer, so we
had the justification for buying a complete system.
--
L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo.
ljdickey@water.UWaterloo.ca ljdickey@water.BITNET
ljdickey@water.UUCP ..!uunet!watmath!water!ljdickey
ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu PETCHER@FSU.BITNET (04/01/89)
I have several reasons for buying the ST, not the least of which is that
when I first purchased one, I was living in Holland where several people
around me were also buying them. Other reasons are as follows.
I originally was doing scientific programming on mainframes. In micros, I
prefer the Motorola 68000 over the Intel line OF CHIPS, and I also had promised
myself that I wouldn't purchase a computer until the 1 Mb RAM barrier was
broken. These two criteria were nicely satisfied in the 1040ST (or 520ST+ as
was sold by Atari Benelux).
Secondly, my applications are almost 100% monochrome oriented (programming and
writing) and for this, the ST comes out on top. The screen is (or was, before
the VGA line) the most stable on the market in a personal computer. When I
finally saw an Amiga running Word Perfect (the local Amiga dealer trying to
talk me into selling my Atari, so he tried to "impress" me) I began really
counting my blessings. That is not something I could look at all day.
Thirdly, I used a Macintosh once to write a journal article, and in so doing
developed a rather strong dislike for the beast, not disimilar to what has
been expressed elsewhere in this news group. I won't repeat.
Finally, my wife is interested in desktop publishing, for which the ST is
coming along rather well.
So, by the process of elimination, I was left with the ST. My wife and
I are thinking nowadays about doing some video work, and every so often
I think about the possibility of picking up a used Amiga for that, but I
think I'll give the ST a whirl first. From what I hear from friends, even
in that department it runs a pretty close second.
Don Petcher
Supercomputer Computations Research Institute
The Florida State University
Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052
Petcher@vsdnp.scri.fsu.edu
or
PETCHER@FSU.BITNETBUGGS@cup.portal.com (William Edward JuneJr) (04/02/89)
Well I bought mine 'cause I liked the old 800/810 system I had. I originally got a 520STfm, changed out the SS internal drive with a DS one, and upgraded to one megs. I then bought a used SH204 for $300.00, then bought the ADE chip for it. Then I bought a mega 4, built a homebrew HD with the ICD host, Miniscribe 3650 with RLL controller, and a few months ago built another HD monster! It's a Micropolis 1355 ESDI, usin' the ICD host. Thinkin' of seelin' bothe the SH & the Miniscribe to build another Micropolis! Ed June
"Martin_Cooper.osbunorth"@XEROX.COM (04/06/89)
Unfortunately, you won't find the answer to this question here. What you
might discover is what the average Atari ST user WHO HAS INTERNET ACCESS is
like. It would be wrong to assume that the two averages are the same, or
even similar, simply because of the small proportion of ST owners who have
access to the net, and because of the reasons those people do have access.
The inference from the net would likely be that Atarians are, as you
suggest, hackers at heart - both software and hardware. It's interesting to
notice that almost all the discussion on this list revolves around
improving the hardware and/or software, tools for software development, and
utilities. All of this would seem to suggest that nobody out there actually
DOES anything with their ST. They only follow the endless upgrade to bigger
and better hardware and software - and for what?
This last is the question I would really like to find the answer to. Ok, so
all these folks on the net have their 1040ST's or whatever with bits and
pieces hanging out all over. They have memory upgrades, home-grown hard
disk drives, multiple monitors with weird interfaces, and all the C
compilers, debuggers, shells and desk accessories known to man or beast.
Now what do they actually USE all this for?
Another peculiarity which I haven't really figured out yet is why so many
people seem to have an ST so that it can be something else. Run out and buy
your ST. Then go off and get a copy of PC Ditto so that you can have a
regular PC (which you could have got cheaper to start with). And then rush
out to get a Magic Sac or Spectre so that you can have a Mac too. Do these
people realise that they're killing the Atari themselves?
All of this I see as part of the demise of Atari. From what I can
determine, people seem to use the machine for hacking or for games. Take a
look at the software available for the ST and see what proportion is left
when you subtract out the games, the software tools and the utilities. It's
pretty low. That's all that's available for the people who would use an ST
to do real work - the market that the PC and the Mac address. This is not
helped by the fact that there appears to be a significant number of
unscrupulous ST owners who would - and do - make illegal copies of
"expensive" software. Ask WordPerfect why they are considering dropping
support for the Atari ST - they'll tell you that so many copies were
pirated that it's just not worth their while. They even found it being
distributed on a BBS a while back.
So, all of you out there who are doubtless denying all of the above - let's
hear from you. What do you USE your ST for? Those of you who are authors of
USER oriented software - let's hear what you're doing, and tell us about
your market. Those of you who are USERS, let's hear what you're using, and
what for.
Oh, me? Well I bought my ST mainly for it's built-in MIDI capability and
because the MIDI software available for the ST beats everything else hands
down. I use WordPerfect a lot because I create a lot of documents and I
need the capabilities of a high end word processor - and because I can take
the disks with me when I travel with a laptop. I use database software for
a variety of purposes. And sure, I do a bit of hacking too (but NOT, NOT,
NOT in that godawful language, C).
Martin.
-------------------------------+--------------------------------------
-- Martin Cooper | These opinions are all mine. They --
-- Xerox Corporation | might be yours too, but they sure --
-------------------------------| aren't those of my company. They --
-- Cooper.osbuNorth@Xerox.com +----------------+ might not know I --
-- {hplabs,lll-winken}!arisia!cooper.osbunorth | have opinions. --
------------------------------------------------+---------------------fraga@faculty.cs.ubc.ca (Eric S Fraga) (04/08/89)
In article <890405-104637-2664@Xerox> Cooper.osbuNorth@Xerox.com.osbunorth writes: > ... >All of this I see as part of the demise of Atari. From what I can >determine, people seem to use the machine for hacking or for games. > ... >So, all of you out there who are doubtless denying all of the above - let's >hear from you. What do you USE your ST for? Those of you who are authors of >USER oriented software - let's hear what you're doing, and tell us about >your market. Those of you who are USERS, let's hear what you're using, and >what for. I don't understand how my OWNING an Atari, no matter how I use it, could possibly be part of the demise of Atari... but never mind. To answer your question: Use (in order of Software used decreasing priority) As a terminal UW, Gulam, and Uniterm Word Processing 1st Word, MicroEmacs Preparing Examples for Sozobon C class I teach Serious programming Sozobon C with Gulam (I do most of my work on a SUN so Atari is a tad slow but that's why *I* am waiting for the TT!) Anyway, like I said above, I can't see how I contribute to the demise of Atari. On the other hand, I know that I don't contribute to the success of Atari (except maybe by telling people I am happy with my computer if and only if they ask) as I am still using my 520 st bought in Sept 85 and have bought a total of two software pieces (Developer's kit and Minix) in the last almost four years. I use free software, and that's the way I like it. (1st word used to be free many moon ago) I have NO games. Can't justify spending $$ on a game when I get bored of it in about two days. If Atari brings out a piece of hardware I like (the TT?), I will support them by buying it. That's my contribution. But only if it meets my ends. I don't particularly care what happens to Atari itself (don't own any of their stock) and if they go down the tubes, I'll still keep using my 520 until something better comes along. 'nuff said. ta for now, eric +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Eric S Fraga, Department of Computer Science, University of British Columbia| |phone: +1 604 228 6063, fraga@faculty.cs.ubc.ca | fraga@faculty.cs.ubc.cdn | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
rjung@castor.usc.edu (Robert allen Jung) (04/08/89)
In article <890405-104637-2664@Xerox> Cooper.osbuNorth@Xerox.com.osbunorth writes: >Unfortunately, you won't find the answer to this question here. What you >might discover is what the average Atari ST user WHO HAS INTERNET ACCESS is >like. It would be wrong to assume that the two averages are the same, or >even similar That's unavoidable. Telephone polls discriminate against people without phones. On-the-street polls discriminate based on location. Every system has flaws. >Another peculiarity which I haven't really figured out yet is why so many >people seem to have an ST so that it can be something else. Run out and buy >your ST. Then go off and get a copy of PC Ditto so that you can have a >regular PC (which you could have got cheaper to start with). And then rush >out to get a Magic Sac or Spectre so that you can have a Mac too. Do these >people realise that they're killing the Atari themselves? Hey, don't look at me. I'm STILL looking for some PC/Mac software that will make me say, "I *must* have that, and I'll buy an emulator for it!". However, I doubt anyone buys an ST _only_ to run someone else's software. Most often, it's probably just a matter of convience. "I'd rather run WordWriter ST, but it makes my life easier if I can bring my IBM work home too." >So, all of you out there who are doubtless denying all of the above - let's >hear from you. What do you USE your ST for? Too many to name. Calling computer systems. Writing documents. Drawing art. Playing games. Hacking. Anything and everything I need, and all without any emulators or whatever. No MIDI though, I have a tin ear. B-) >And sure, I do a bit of hacking too (but NOT, NOT, >NOT in that godawful language, C). What, C as godawful? Sacrildge! Who are YOU to talk??? B-) B-) B-) B-) B-) I think you're panicking a little bit; Maybe you should re-examine the ST situation. There's a LOT more than games and utilities out there. Games especially may appear to be dominant, but that's true for any computer system (everybody has to have fun). Besides, the "Joe Users" who use ST's for non-hacking tasks probably don't have Net access -- Which goes back to the point at the beginning... --R.J. B-) ============================================================================= Disclaimer: This message was written with my authorization # ## # # ## # Mailing address: rjung@nunki.usc.edu ## ## ## (It's easier to just use the reply function, tho) #### ## ####
Friesen@PCO-MULTICS.HBI.HONEYWELL.COM (04/08/89)
Well, it's my turn... I do have a serious commitment to the Atari
computers but not the company. The first Atari I owned was the 2600 (I
remember when that was the highest form of technology). I then
purchased a 1200XL (I had always watched the 800/400's and almost
purchased one a few times, then when Atari released the XL's, I bought).
I remember always having to defend the computer because it was termed a
games machine. I suppose that helped increase my loyalty. I did some
programming in basic, and purchased some games, but that was all. I
never had time to read all of those manuals (whenever I wanted to load
something from disk, I had to look up the syntax in a manual). Then one
day my dad brought home a Mac from work. Suddenly the whole world of
computing was only a mouse-click away (with a mouse interface, there was
no need to spend my all important time reading manuals). I started
getting into computers then (especially DTP). Then the first news of
the ST I heard was an ad my dad ripped out of an airline mag. It was an
ad by some company that sold the STs through the mail. The ST it
described was the 260ST (if I remember). It compared it to the Mac and
Amiga, and as I read it, my old Atari blood started circulating. I
decided I MUST have that computer, It sounded perfect! After a lot of
pleading, and reminding my parents how soon my birthday was coming (and
finding a local Atari store) I got my dad (who would do the purchasing)
to go with me to the store. We learned that the 260 had been dropped,
and were introduced to the features, software, etc. of the ST. I was
able to get a 1040ST a few weeks later. I still have to defend the
Atari a lot, and I do get sick of it. I feel the ST is by far the best
computer out there in its price range including the Mac SE and many IBM.
I realize that you can get 33MHz IBM clones, but by the time you get
that performance, you have left the ST's price range, and you still have
to deal with manuals larger than the deficit, and a people-hating user
interface (and I don't consider a mouse slammed into an expansion port
and a hack or a huge windowing system running on top of DOS a good
replacement for GEM!) The Mac II just isn't on the same price level as
the ST (and I haven't decided whether it is actually better, I've used
it a little and heard much good and much bad about it).
What do I use the computer for? No, I'm no hardware hacker. I am
working on using a Tandy bar code wand with the ST, and had to make an
adapter cable, but that about stretched to the limits of my
hardware-ability. I taught myself basic back on my 1200XL, so I was
defenitly a hacker. My programs looked like a group of 100 people after
partaking in a nuclear reaction. GFA Basic on the ST (my main
programming language now) fixed that up, becuase it makes you program
and think in a more structured way. I am also taking a Pascal course,
and that is filling any voids as far as no-sloppy-coding-knoweledge is
concerned. I program games (I now have STOS for that) and I programmed
and address book. Right now I am working on a Bar Code decoding program
in GFA Basic, and slowly working on a Defender type game in STOS. I
also use my ST for simple word processing. I like writing, and when I
am doing something informal, or small I use the ST (because my dad has
access to laser printers for the mac, I use that for my DTP). I also
have some Cyber stuff, and have fooled with that (I'd like to do more
CAD 3-D stuff, but never get the time). I also fool around a little
with MIDI (with Music Construction Set), and audio digitizing (I have
Replay4). I also like to do some art whenever necessary. I have a
color inkjet printer that does nice output for report covers etc. I
plan on getting into DTP on the ST (I do a lot on the Mac) when (in
about a year) I can get my parents to buy me a Deskjet.
I do have one thing to say, and that is that I don't feel that
the ST software is pirated more than the IBMs or Macs. I know many IBM
pirate BBSs here locally(I know of no pirate BBSs for the ST), and
everyone trades Mac stuff at school (I don't know anyone who doesn't
have Super Paint except for the people who don't want it). I don't
pirate software! Many other people do. I have a feeling that the
reason many Atarians feel the ST is pirated so much, is because they are
close to the ST community. Pirating is a big part of any computer
community, and I think that if you look at a user/pirated software
percentage, you would find the ST is in the norm.
Aric Friesen
Addresses:
Genie: A.FRIESEN
ARPA: Friesen%PCO@BCO-MULTICS.ARPA
"Hypnotism; the programming language for people."#FJMORA@WMMVS.BITNET (04/09/89)
HI, in message dated 5 Apr 89 10:30:48 PDT (Wednesday), "Martin_Cooper.osbunorth"@Xerox.COM writes: > And sure, I do a bit of hacking too (but NOT, NOT, > NOT in that godawful language, C). So, you dislike the C language, huh? Strange... At Xerok, they used to really hand-pick people they hired... (:-) (:-) (:-) (:-) (:-) (:-) Regards, Frederic Mora BITNET: The College of William and Mary #fjmora%wmmvs.bitnet Dept. of Computer Science ^ Mind the # sign! Williamsburg, VA. 23185 USA GEnie: F.MORA -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | "Was uns nicht toetet, macht uns staerker." - Friedrich Nietzsche | | What does not kill us makes us stronger | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Come, come, little line eater, I won't harm you (evil grin)... - Come, come, little line eater, I won't harm you (evil grin)...
Dave_Ninjajr_Flory@cup.portal.com (04/10/89)
>your ST. Then go off and get a copy of PC Ditto so that you can have a >regular PC (which you could have got cheaper to start with). And then rush [23;11H >out to get a Magic Sac or Spectre so that you can have a Mac too. Do these >people realise that they're killing the Atari themselves? >Those of you who are USERS, let's hear what you're using, and >what for. Not at all killing Atari. Saving a lot of money and elminating the purchase of a mac and an IBM/clone. I use mine at work to look at data, and programs from Macs, IBM/clones, and Ataris that have been confiscated from suspects. Makes my mega4 a triple threat machine. I have also been able to pass on to my Mac and IBM user acquaintances, useful PD utls they probably never would have seen if I had not happened across them looking for ways to make the mac/ibm modes of my Mega more Atari like. I use mine mostly for telecommunications, but a lot for word processing, Desktop Publishing (I have seen nothing on Mac or IBM platforms that I like better than Calamus with my SLM804), and CAD. I have an upgraded 1 meg 520 at home with a color monitor, but do most of my work at home and at work with a mega 4 mono system. On the telecom side, any law enforcement people who happen to see this might want to check into GEnie and look at page 255, A Law Enforcement RoundTable. Just opened. With me and Greg Kranich as syops.