dnewton@carroll1.UUCP (Dave Newton) (04/03/89)
Well, after wanting one since 1985, I finally got an ST. 1040STfm mono.
Gosh.
I also got LaserC with it with their fun resource creation program.
Has anybody else but me noticed that this program has no documentation to
speak of? Has anybody else spent 7 hours after 2am just trying to get
a GEM application to run without throwing little bombs all over the place?
The manual that comes with the ST--a little sparse, no? Good grief, the
book isn't a hundred pages long, doesn't even give a list of error messages,
(i don't think) or what the number of little bombs means. What do the
number of bombs mean?
Why does Atari want me to by a manual for a language they bundle with the
machine?
Why is scrolling in ST WordWriter so much slower than the scrolling in the
LaserC program editor?
All these questions and more have come to plague me in the last 24 hours.
Sorry to waste bandwidth, but I'm excited and confused all at the same time.
Bah.
--
"If I cannot create it, I do not understand it"
-Richard Feynman
David L. Newton (414) 524-7465 dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu
=8-) (smiley w/ a mohawk) (414) 524-7343 uunet!marque!carroll1!dnewtonrjung@sal21.usc.edu (Robert allen Jung) (04/03/89)
In article <332@carroll1.UUCP> dnewton@carroll1.UUCP (Dave Newton) writes: >I also got LaserC with it with their fun resource creation program. >Has anybody else but me noticed that this program has no documentation to >speak of? That's the biggest problem with the Laser C package -- Too much attention on the calls and whatever, not enough on the tools. You think the RCP is tricky, try using the Laser C tools on a different shell. >The manual that comes with the ST--a little sparse, no? Actually, I thought it was just fine for a "Joe Novice" introduction. An advanced book for techie-oriented people would have been nice, though. >What do the number of bombs mean? They stand for TOS(?) error numbers. Somebody has a list out here somewhere. >Why does Atari want me to by a manual for a language they bundle with the >machine? You should have gotten the manual in the package -- I know I did. Is this a new (and definetely unimproved) policy? ST BASIC is pretty pitiful, however. Maybe you should consider getting GFA BASIC for free, and buying the $10 manual from Antic. It's a better deal. >Why is scrolling in ST WordWriter so much slower than the scrolling in the >LaserC program editor? Different designs. The Laser C windows aren't GEM; They're Megamax's custom setup. I suppose the code's in optimized machine language. --R.J. B-) ============================================================================= Disclaimer: This message was written with my authorization # ## # # ## # Mailing address: rjung@nunki.usc.edu ## ## ## (It's easier to just use the reply function, tho) #### ## ####
walkerb@tramp.Colorado.EDU (Brian Walker) (04/04/89)
In article <332@carroll1.UUCP> dnewton@carroll1.UUCP (Dave Newton) writes: >Well, after wanting one since 1985, I finally got an ST. 1040STfm mono. >Gosh. > [ stuff about Laser C deleted (I don't have Laser C)] > >The manual that comes with the ST--a little sparse, no? Good grief, the >book isn't a hundred pages long, doesn't even give a list of error messages, >(i don't think) or what the number of little bombs means. What do the >number of bombs mean? > Yes, it is a little on the skimpy side for many. I only read my manual months after I got the computer because I found most of what I needed to know by playing with the computer. For me, the manual was adequate because I didn't really need it. Although, a brief mention of errors would have been helpful. Most errors that occur on the desktop are self explanatory and even include instructions on how to correct the problem. The only exception I have noticed is TOS Error 35, which isn't a real TOS error, but means that you tried to run a file that really wasn't a program. The bombs refer to 68000 exceptions. These are the more frequent bombs: 2 bombs Bus Error Check your pointer variables. Frequently a result of trying to access protected memory. 3 bombs Address Error Frequently caused by trying to read integers at odd memory locations. You can find more about bombs from _ST Internals_ from Abacus or in any 68000 reference manual. The number of bombs relate directly to the 68000 exception vector numbers in low memory. >Why does Atari want me to by a manual for a language they bundle with the >machine? > I couldn't tell you. My computer came with BASIC and LOGO and included manuals. I think that if they provide the program, they should include the documentation. What language is it specifically? That may provide a clue. >Why is scrolling in ST WordWriter so much slower than the scrolling in the >LaserC program editor? > A major cause of the differences in scrolling speed could be that one is a word processor and the other a program editor. Program editors are mostly line oriented and don't have to deal with text styles or formatting. Generally, the word processor has to do a little more with the text than a program editor. Brian Walker, University of Colorado at Boulder walkerb@tramp.colorado.edu ...!{ncar,nbires}!boulder!tramp!walkerb "As far as we were aware, we simply made up the language as we went along" -John Backus on the developement of FORTRAN
champagn@hpspkla.HP.COM (Robert R. Champagne) (04/05/89)
>>Why is scrolling in ST WordWriter so much slower than the scrolling in the >>LaserC program editor? >> >A major cause of the differences in scrolling speed could be that one is a >word processor and the other a program editor. Program editors are mostly >line oriented and don't have to deal with text styles or formatting. >Generally, the word processor has to do a little more with the text than a >program editor. Just as an aside (since Brian does not have Laser C), it appears that the folks at Megamax designed the Laser C editor in much the same way that Tempus editor was written: use "GEM windows, etc", but by-pass the GEM routines that are used for "window updating" and write directly to screen memory. Notice that the "scroll bar" and "arrows" in the Megamax editor windows are not "standard" GEM? And keeping the window "work area" on a word boundary greatly increases the speed characters can be written. This is the classic case of using either a "generic, all-purpose" routine that works all the time, but takes into account ALL possible cases, or a specialized, efficient routine (MUCH more work for the programmer). I suspect ST Writer simply uses the "standard" GEM window update procedures.
kllove@uokmax.UUCP (Kenneth L Love) (04/14/89)
>In article <332@carroll1.UUCP> dnewton@carroll1.UUCP (Dave Newton) writes: >>Why does Atari want me to by a manual for a language they bundle with the >>machine? Earlier in this message (I lost the original) a reference to LOGO being shipped with the ST's is made. Is this standard? I just recently bought a Mega 2 and the only thing on the included disk was the ST basic and a sample program. Is there an anonymous ftp site I could get LOGO? Thanx in advance, Kenneth Love