MBERNAR@ERENJ.BITNET (Marcelino Bernardo) (04/11/89)
This is to all ATARI employees in the net. I know you've heard this a zillion times before. But, maybe you're not listening so here goes. And read it slowly this time. PLEASE REPLACE THOSE KEY CAPS IN THE ST WITH MORE CONVENTIONAL SIZE. THEY ARE MUCH TOO WIDE AT THE TOP TO AVOID HITTING 2 KEYS AT ONCE. THOSE RHOMBOID FUNCTION KEYS MUST GO! You might think it looks neat, but it's not very functional. It projects the wrong image: "THIS IS A TOY." And we all know, THIS IS NOT TRUE. I hope somebody got it. Regards, Marcelino Bernardo Bitnet: mbernar@erenj ^Send all flames directly.
mfolivo@sactoh0.UUCP (Mark F. Olivo) (04/16/89)
Key caps too big? No. Fingers to clumsy, maybe. What does he want, smaller keys? The size of the key do not present a problem to most people. And the rhomboid funcion keys? KEEP 'EM! The slant design looks better than the rest of the zillion keyboards out there, and the ergonomics of a rhomboid (as he calls it) has never presented a problem for me. If anything, maybe a new keyboard could include 12 function keys, so that running the ST under IBM emulation, we have all 12 function keys. And maybe an equivalent to a PgUp and PgDn, and an END key. Mark Newton-John Sacramento, CA -- ############################################################# # PRIVATE # SAC-UNIX, Sacramento, Ca. # # PARKING # UUCP=...pacbell!sactoh0 # #############################################################
c60c-3ds@web-1b.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) (04/18/89)
In article <866@sactoh0.UUCP> mfolivo@sactoh0.UUCP (Mark F. Olivo) writes: >Key caps too big? No. Fingers to clumsy, maybe. What does he want, >smaller keys? The size of the key do not present a problem to most >people. And the rhomboid funcion keys? KEEP 'EM! The slant design >looks better than the rest of the zillion keyboards out there, and >the ergonomics of a rhomboid (as he calls it) has never presented a >problem for me. If anything, maybe a new keyboard could include 12 >function keys, so that running the ST under IBM emulation, we have >all 12 function keys. And maybe an equivalent to a PgUp and PgDn, >and an END key. > >Mark Newton-John >Sacramento, CA > I think he wants smaller keys. The ST keys are about 2 mm wider than most typewriter's and even wider than most terminal keys. The rhomboid F-keys usually present a problem to new users. The answer is to aim for the numbers on the keys, not the centers. I'm not the greatest typist in the world, but my errors increase significantly when I touch type on the ST. The most common error is hitting 2 adjacent keys because the caps are too large. I know this must be the case because I don't make nearly as many errors on typewriters and other computers (with selectric keyboards). Smaller caps are in order (as well a mega style key response, which I've fallen in love with). John Kawakami c60c-3ds@web.berkeley.edu
ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu (Lee Dickey) (04/18/89)
In article <23238@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> c60c-3ds@web-1b.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) writes: >I think he wants smaller keys. The ST keys are about 2 mm wider than >most typewriter's and even wider than most terminal keys. The rhomboid >F-keys usually present a problem to new users. The answer is to aim for >the numbers on the keys, not the centers. I would appreciate slightly smaller key tops, but find the distance between centers to be just about right. I would like pimples on two keys, the "F" and "J" keys, to tell my index fingers when they are in the correct position. I have no interest in more spring tension under the keys. Function keys grouped in a rectangle would be more ergonomic than having them spread out in a long line. Just having a break between groups groups of keys would be some help. As it is, I tie my most frequently used key functions to keys near the end of the line, and hate it when I have to look down to find "F5" or "F6" in the middle of the line. -- L. J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, University of Waterloo. ljdickey@water.UWaterloo.ca ljdickey@water.BITNET ljdickey@water.UUCP ..!uunet!watmath!water!ljdickey ljdickey@water.waterloo.edu
derrick@ritcsh.UUCP (Derrick Williams) (04/20/89)
I also am dissapointed at the keyboard of the ST. It just feels too
unresponsive. I've tried putting MegaTouch springs in the keyboard, and while
it's a bit stiffer, it becomes less responsive. Is there any way to get around
the "rubber cup" smooshiness characteristic of the st?
I would really enjoy my st more if the keyboard followed traditional styles
like the Atari 800 (REAL contacts, none of the rubber cup business). I would
be willing to pay more for an ST with a decent keyboard, but I'm stuck
with the one I have.
Chris Freemesser has suggested placing a spacer (cut out of sheet rubber)
between the plastic cyliner of the keys and the rubber cups to decrease
the throw distance. I havn't tried this, but does anyone have any mods or
heard of mods to improve the tactile feel of the ST?
Where I'm living now, there are many keyboards from old terminals available,
but I suppose it won't be possible to replace the ST keyboard with it.
Thanks,
Derrick
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
An artsie and an Engineer once sat, 'twix them a gallon can;
Said the artsie, "Match me drink for drink, let's see who's the better man."
They drank three quaffs, the artsie collapsed with a face turning green,
But the Engineer drank on and with a sneer said, "It's only gasoline!"
Derrick Williams Rochester Institute of Technology
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------mfolivo@sactoh0.UUCP (Mark F. Olivo) (04/21/89)
I find it soort of odd that people have trouble with the keyboard. I have had my Mega 4 since last summer, and I have found it no problem, after upgrading from my 800XL. At work I use a Panasonic keyboard, a NCR keyboard, and a DEC. At home I have a 1040 an 800 and a 800XL. Going between so many keyboards, I just adapt that each one is different, although the 1040 is at the bottom of the list, and Mega 4 and 800 have better keyboards (among the Ataris). Although I haven't measured it (does 2mm make that much of a difference?) the ST keyboard is very similar to the DEC keyboard. In fact, it was patterned after it. I am one of those fast "non-typist", I don't touch type, but I am pretty fast neverthe less. Mark Newton-John -- ############################################################# # PRIVATE # SAC-UNIX, Sacramento, Ca. # # PARKING # UUCP=...pacbell!sactoh0 # #############################################################
clf3678@ultb.UUCP (C.L. Freemesser) (04/22/89)
In article <2869@ritcsh.UUCP> derrick@ritcsh.UUCP (Derrick Williams) writes: > Chris Freemesser has suggested placing a spacer (cut out of sheet rubber) >between the plastic cyliner of the keys and the rubber cups to decrease >the throw distance. I havn't tried this, but does anyone have any mods or >heard of mods to improve the tactile feel of the ST? > Where I'm living now, there are many keyboards from old terminals available, >but I suppose it won't be possible to replace the ST keyboard with it. Hey, that's me being referred to! A few months ago, I did some serious hacking on the keyboard of my ST (as well as that of the XE computer). What I did was to punch out some rubber dots using a hole punch and 1/16 inch rubber sheeting. On the bottom of the keyboard assembly, there are 20+ small screws that holds the circuit board to the key cap assembly. Using a precision screwdriver, I put a small hole in the middle of the rubber dots. Then, I used them as washers, fitting them between the circuit board and the key cap assembly board. Here is what I found: 520ST - works moderately well; removes some of the spongyness. 1040ST - not much effect XE with rubber cups - no real effect XE with springs - FANTASTIC. Made the keyboard feel EXCELLENT. All in all, the upgrade wasn't very effective except for the XE keyboard with the springs. I pretty much gave up on upgrading the keyboard after I managed to trash my first one (accidentally dissolved the silicon contact). What I have found is: if one was to put the silicon contact on the bottom of the plastic key cap mech, and put a spring underneath the key cap itself, the keyboard would be GREATLY improved, and pretty usable. :^) =cf=
jeq@laidbak.UUCP (Jonathan E. Quist) (04/24/89)
In article <895@sactoh0.UUCP> mfolivo@sactoh0.UUCP (Mark F. Olivo) writes: > > >I find it soort of odd that people have trouble with the keyboard. >I have had my Mega 4 since last summer, and I have found it no ... >I am one of those fast >"non-typist", I don't touch type, but I am pretty fast neverthe >less. You just answered your own question. If you use nothing but tactile references to the keyboard (rather than visual), then you become more aware of small differences. As for the person who wanted "bumps" on the home keys (F and J), my favorite trick is to cut small squares of tape (usually Scotch "magic" transparent) and put them on the keys. There will be just enough of a rough area around the edges to identify the keys. In time, as skin oils from your fingers load up on the tape, they will become smooth (while the other keys remain textured) which also helps identify them. Since the center of the key does not have the large pimple that some keyboards have, long typing sessions are more comfortable. jonathan quist