01659@AECLCR.BITNET (Greg Csullog) (05/15/89)
Several times, seemingly anti-ST types have marvelled at the fact that ST users are infatuated with software/hardware that lets the ST become a PC or a Mac. Somehow, they feel that the ability to run like another system means that ST users are unhappy about the ST being an ST. Not so! PC in ST's clothing: I purchased PC Ditto to use on my ST at work for two reasons. First, it was next to impossible to buy a computer unless it was IBM-PC compatible. A user had to bare his soul to justify not buying a PC. Therefore, if I could say that my ST could run PC software I could buy the machine. Second, I had to use a PC for about a year (acquired to do some contract work) and ocassionally I had to go back and do some work using dBASE and Word Perfect (my award winner for the most inappropriately named software on earth). All I did was uninstall these applications from the PC and put them on my ST. Then, when I had to do work related to previous PC based jobs, I could get it done without leaving my ST. Now, I have abandoned Word Perfect in favour of a word processor made for humans (Word Writer) and I bought dbMAN to handle any dBASE work. All I use PC Ditto for is to run Norton Utilities to re-pack files. Had PC Ditto-II been out, I could have kept using dBASE on the ST and forgotten about dbMAN since I made the switch for speed reasons. (Oh yes, I also use PC Ditto to teach unskilled users the difference between an MS DOS command- line interface and the GEM interface on the ST; students turn pale at the thought of dealing with DOS instead of GEM). Mac in ST's clothing: Just like ST enthusiasts at work, Mac enthusiasts ran up against a brick wall when trying to justify not buying a PC. Now there are quite a few Macs on site (115 Macs as compared to 60 - 70 STs). Two persons in my work group have Macs; they went that route because of great software (better than was available on the ST ) and user friendliness. Since I support users in the work group, I acquired Magic Sac and then Spectre to learn the ins and outs of being a Mac. Now I have HYPERCARD and EXCEL. However, when I do spreadsheets, I prefer the LOTUS / interface instead of the mouse so I create sheets in the ST program LDW and I import them to EXCEL for final graphing. So, while emulation has given me a lot, I still return to the ST when I want to be most productive. Emulation allows me to use the best of the other guy's systems and the best of my ST, all with the same keyboard. Yeah, I get hyped up on PC Ditto II and Spectre GCR because they open up lots of possibilities for me and my ST. But, that does not mean I do not get the most out of my ST. One last note. I understand that the Mac program called "II in a Mac" lets the Mac run Apple II software. Schools that have lots of Apple II software are apparently interested since they can bridge the sofware gap with Apple II emulation on a Mac. I was also told that "II on a Mac" runs under Spectre. That means you can turn an ST into a Mac that turns into an Apple II. No doubt, some hacker has a code to let the Apple II run Commodore 64 codes. Think about that one for awhile!
c60c-3ds@e260-4d.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) (05/16/89)
In article <8905151535.AA13997@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> 01659@AECLCR.BITNET (Greg Csullog) writes: >One last note. I understand that the Mac program called "II in a >Mac" lets the Mac run Apple II software. Schools that have lots of >Apple II software are apparently interested since they can bridge >the sofware gap with Apple II emulation on a Mac. I was also told >that "II on a Mac" runs under Spectre. That means you can turn an >ST into a Mac that turns into an Apple II. No doubt, some hacker >has a code to let the Apple II run Commodore 64 codes. Think >about that one for awhile! Does anyone know the status of Xformer by Darek Mihocka. It has Atari 8-bit simulation (including some interface for an 8-bitter drive). It was supposed to get Apple// and Commodore 64 emulation as well. If this emulator ever gets totally finished, you can have a II in a Mac in a ST, or II in a ST. Like wow man. John Kawakami | imakawaK nhoJ c60c-3ds@web.berkeley.edu | pauL_is_deaD@walrusvaX
clf3678@ultb.UUCP (C.L. Freemesser) (05/17/89)
>Does anyone know the status of Xformer by Darek Mihocka. It has Atari >8-bit simulation (including some interface for an 8-bitter drive). >It was supposed to get Apple// and Commodore 64 emulation as well. > >If this emulator ever gets totally finished, you can have a II in a >Mac in a ST, or II in a ST. Like wow man. > > > John Kawakami | imakawaK nhoJ > c60c-3ds@web.berkeley.edu | pauL_is_deaD@walrusvaX I talked to Bob Puff today (8-bit guru and Derek Mihocka's helper), and he informed me that version 2.5 is out. This version has speed of over 50% (or so). From what I gathered, he also fixed the disk I/O. Version 2.3 had virtual disks (which I HATE). 2.5 allows you to use an ST drive straight away, thus eliminating virtual drives altogether. Don't take my word for it though. The conversation was a little garbled (even though he lives 2 miles away). Derek discontinued any work on the Apple II and Commie 64 emulators some time ago. Lack of interest and lack of worthwhileness (is that a word?). =cf=
kirkenda@psueea.uucp (Steve Kirkendall) (05/18/89)
In article <24455@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> c60c-3ds@e260-4d.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) writes: > >Does anyone know the status of Xformer by Darek Mihocka. It has Atari >8-bit simulation (including some interface for an 8-bitter drive). >It was supposed to get Apple// and Commodore 64 emulation as well. > >If this emulator ever gets totally finished, you can have a II in a >Mac in a ST, or II in a ST. Like wow man. Let me see if I have this straight. The ST can emulate... * An ST (of course) * A Macintosh (black-and-white models only) * An IBM PC * An Atari 8-bit * An Apple ][ (running under the Atari 8-bit emulator) * A CPM machine * A Commodore 64 (I'm not sure about this one...) * A UNIX machine (via MINIX) What's left? Is anybody working on a CRAY-XMP emulator yet? Oh, wait, that's a UNIX machine now. The VIC-20? That was kinda superceded by the 64. Ummm... Amiga? Anybody got an Amiga emulator? Or a Nintendo? The programmable calculators have been done already... -- Steve Kirkendall ...uunet!tektronix!psu-cs!kirkenda
ajy2208%ritcv@cs.rit.edu (05/18/89)
The latest version of the Xformer do not support the Commodore 64 and Apple II emulation modes (is that any big loss though?????). But from what I've been reading, you'll be able to emulate the Apple II with the 'II in a Mac' program running on Spectre.. A Cray emulator? Hmm, all you need is 10 tons of Air conditioning equipment.. :) __________________________________________________________________ ** ** ** | Albert Yarusso | Rochester Institute of Technology | ** ** ** | ajy2208@ritvax.bitnet | Computer Science (Don't use a Sun too | ** ** ** | ajy2208.ritcv.rit.edu | long -- you might get a Sunburn). | ** ** ** | "God does not play dice with the universe." -- Albert Einstein | ** ** ** |________________________________________________________________| Atari Rules!
NETOPRHM@NCSUVM.BITNET (Hal Meeks) (05/23/89)
Path: ncsuvm!psuvm.bitnet!psuvax1!rutgers!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!tektronix!psueea!psueea.uucp!kirkenda Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Re: The ST as a PC or a Mac Message-ID: <1212@psueea.UUCP> Date: 18 May 89 00:57:24 GMT Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Portland State University; Portland OR Reply-To: kirkenda@jove.cs.pdx.edu (Steve Kirkendall) Sender: news@psueea.UUCP References: <8905151535.AA13997@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> <24455@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Lines: 27 In article <24455@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> c60c-3ds@e260-4d.berkeley.edu (John Kawakami) writes: > >Does anyone know the status of Xformer by Darek Mihocka. It has Atari >8-bit simulation (including some interface for an 8-bitter drive). >It was supposed to get Apple// and Commodore 64 emulation as well. > >If this emulator ever gets totally finished, you can have a II in a >Mac in a ST, or II in a ST. Like wow man. and Steve Kirkendall writes: >>Let me see if I have this straight. The ST can emulate... >> * An ST (of course) >> * A Macintosh (black-and-white models only) >> * An IBM PC >> * An Atari 8-bit >> * An Apple ][ (running under the Atari 8-bit emulator) Not exactly something I'd boast about. >> * A CPM machine Wow! Jerry Pournelle would love to hear this! >> * A Commodore 64 (I'm not sure about this one...) Nope. It's DOA. >> * A UNIX machine (via MINIX) Minix does not equal Unix. It's a nice learning tool, but nothing like AUX or Commodore's AMIX. >What's left? Is anybody working on a CRAY-XMP emulator yet? Oh, wait, that's > UNIX machine now. The VIC-20? That was kinda superceded by the 64. Ummm... >Amiga? Anybody got an Amiga emulator? Or a Nintendo? The programmable >calculators have been done already... Any time you start seeing a lot of emulators popping up for a machine, there is the risk that the emulators can be more popular than the native OS. "Gee.. I can buy this box that emulate _all_ this stuff. Let's see, I'll buy Word for my Mac emulation, Lotus 123 for my PC..." Guess who loses? Native ST developers. And the machine starts to die, because of the consumer that walks into a store, looks at what is available for the ST, and then looks at what's available for Amigas, Mac's and PC's. Guess what kind of machine they will end up buying? The one that runs the software they want to run, without having to buy emulators. All these emulations aren't something to boast about. It indicates that the software end of the machine using it's native OS is severely lacking, and people are trying to make up for that. I bought an Amiga (no flames please, I read this group with the best intentions) and fully expected to buy a bridgecard (PC on a card). I also expected to buy a Mac emulator when it became available. Well, guess what. It's a year later, and a Mac emulator is available, at a very reasonable cost. I still don't have a bridgecard, and it's looking very likely that I won't be buying the Mac emulator. I can do everything I need to do with the software I presently own for my machine. This is be taken as an example, not as an argument of Amiga > ST. If someone reads it as such, reread my posting and think about what I am saying. --hal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hal Meeks "Things have changed, things will change, netoprhm@ncsuvm.bitnet and it breaks down." hgm@ncsuvx.ncsu.edu The Past Revisted 4/88