terrell@druhi.ATT.COM (TerrellE) (06/20/89)
My two cents worth on ST piracy: Many software developers seem to be blaming all of their problems on piracy. Although piracy is an enormous challenge to the software industry, I don't think that it should be used as a scapegoat. If I were a software developer victimized by piracy, rather than just complain, I would change the way I do business: I would (1) ensure that the users of my software derived significant advantages from purchasing the product, and (2) exploit piracy to my advantage. How to make purchase of the product advantageous: 1. Provide real customer support. 2. Provide timely updates/upgrades/new products. Make sure that your distribution methods are faster than the pirates'. 3. Provide complete, comprehensive user documentation. A paper manual is more attractive than a disk file, and it cannot be distributed on a BBS. 4. Provide a monthly user newsletter. 5. Keep users informed (by advertising, product reviews, press releases) of the current version of the program. Pirates with old versions of the program will consider upgrading by purchasing the product. How to exploit piracy to your advantage: 1. When someone calls up your telephone support service, get the caller's name and address. Then try to get the caller's registration number. If the caller can't furnish proof of purchase, either politely decline support, or better still, provide the support. Now you may have a new customer for subsequent releases of the product, related products, etc. If you're providing timely updates, the pirate is likely to be requesting support on an out-of-date version of the program. Sell the caller the new version! 2. In the program's documentation, give ordering information, and list the advantages of purchasing the product. If a pirate is convinced, you may get an order. 3. Because of piracy, much software is copy-protected. Don't copy- protect your software and advertise the fact. This will give you a competitive advantage over similar products that are copy-protected. 4. If you find your program on a BBS, don't call the FBI. Get the sysop to remove the posting, and place an advertisement of the product that every BBS user will read. If you've been providing timely updates, the pirates will be interested in purchasing the updated version from you. I'd be interested in hearing additional suggestions on how to avoid piracy, and how to exploit it when it does happen. Terrell
jmarek@td2cad.intel.com (John Marek) (06/20/89)
In article <4332@druhi.ATT.COM> terrell@druhi.ATT.COM (TerrellE) writes: >How to exploit piracy to your advantage: >1.[...] > If you're providing timely updates, the pirate is likely to > be requesting support on an out-of-date version of the program. > Sell the caller the new version! I agree with most of this post, but one should not assume that a request for support on an old version means pirating. I almost got burned by Federated selling me a very old version of a software package ... the old version had lots of bugs. I finally called the manufacturer who promptly sent out a new diskette with the most recent version. (I now highly recommend Sonus SuperScore SST). >2. In the program's documentation, give ordering information, and > list the advantages of purchasing the product. If a pirate > is convinced, you may get an order. A key point is also to produce high quality documentation. Don't distribute a draft-quality document with an expensive software package. Also, if it's reasonable, put color into your document to make it hard to reproduce. Owners of pirated software will probably find they need complete documentation to truly take advantage of a software package. -- John Marek jmarek@td2cad.intel.com "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" Any opinions in the above text are my own but feel welcome to use them.
poage@sunny.ucdavis.edu (Tom Poage) (06/21/89)
In article <2028@td2cad.intel.com> jmarek@td2cad.UUCP (John Marek) writes: .... >A key point is also to produce high quality documentation. Don't distribute a >draft-quality document with an expensive software package. Also, if it's >reasonable, put color into your document to make it hard to reproduce. Owners >of pirated software will probably find they need complete documentation to >truly take advantage of a software package. This may not be liked by the users, but if the documentation is *bound* instead of looseleaf, copying the documents becomes difficult. I.e., 100 page/minute two-sided copy machines will do you no good. For that matter, the half-page (5-1/2 x 8-1/2 inch) material is difficult to copy too. Tom.
gjh@otter.hpl.hp.com (Graham Higgins) (06/21/89)
I agree entirely with your suggestions. One only has to look at the fever generated by the forthcoming upgrades to TOS, Spectre, etc. to realise that just having the current version of software is a necessary but not sufficient condition for satisfaction. To be a valid recipient of upgrades and information adds considerable usability to a piece of equipment (I consider software to be equipment). All too often the support for equipment is minimal. Yes, costs do play a part, but the attractiveness of a complete marketing package (as described in the basenote) is difficult to deny. The suggestions contained in the responses are also very sensible - as a consumer, I prefer hard-bound, properly-prepared documentation (who doesn't). Further suggestion --- Atari Corp., you read this group, so how about passing the basenote and the relevant responses on to the developers? And while you are at it, read them carefully yourselves. You have a large customer base and considerable goodwill, a lot of other companies would give their eye teeth for these advantages. You seem to be in real danger of taking your customers and their opinions/feelings for granted. You have a very visible position in the marketplace, a position largely derived from the success of the ST. However, the machine is just a piece of junk without an active user base --- they don't program themselves, dammit. Success factors in the "home computer" market are complex, (you must know that) but one of the most significant has got to be the range and quality of software available for any particular machine. There are *many* people who have invested hard-earned money in Atari kit. You have both a role to play in (and responsibility towards) helping those people make the most of their investment. This means supporting existing users, not just targeting potential purchasers. Really, it's up to you to set the standard for software, documentation and support. Take a good, hard look at what you are offering current users --- would you be satisfied with those standards from *your* key supplier? From many of the contributions to this notesgroup, I see a tremendous amount of goodwill, tolerance and respect towards Atari and the ST. It would be *really* nice to see some of it coming back in terms of support, responsiveness and respect. Cheers, Graham Higgins ============== #include <std.disclaimer>
greg@bilbo (Greg Wageman) (06/22/89)
In article <4332@druhi.ATT.COM> terrell@druhi.ATT.COM (TerrellE) writes: > >If I were a software developer victimized by piracy, rather than just >complain, I would change the way I do business: I would (1) ensure that the >users of my software derived significant advantages from purchasing the >product, and (2) exploit piracy to my advantage. > >How to make purchase of the product advantageous: > >1. Provide real customer support. Define "real". This requires a knowledgable person or persons to be available to answer phone calls. The knowledgable person will then be unable to do other useful things, like fix bugs and/or write new programs. This also requires phone line(s) dedicated to customer service. Who pays for the call? An 800 number costs big money, and extra phone lines and customer-service people aren't free. >2. Provide timely updates/upgrades/new products. Make sure that your > distribution methods are faster than the pirates'. If the product has bugs, updates/upgrades are certainly in order. But what about a relatively simple program which is released essentially bug-free (they do exist)? Just how many disks do you want a company to provide for the initial purchase price? The second part of this is impossible. Pirate BBS's have been known to have cracked copies of the latest versions of programs within days of their release. Other than distribution by BBS, a manufacturer has no cost effective, faster delivery mechanisms available. The BBS route is called "shareware", and no rational programmer expects to make a regular income solely from shareware. >3. Provide complete, comprehensive user documentation. A paper manual > is more attractive than a disk file, and it cannot be distributed > on a BBS. True, but with the advent of cheap, hand-held scanners, it takes only a matter of hours to scan-in a paper document, complete with pictures. Besides, fancy documents with plastic binders, color covers and disk holders cost money too. >4. Provide a monthly user newsletter. This requires quite a bit of time to produce, and is only as good as the material submitted. Or should it be filled with advertising for the company's products? It, too, costs money for preparation, printing, and mailing. >5. Keep users informed (by advertising, product reviews, press releases) > of the current version of the program. Pirates with old versions > of the program will consider upgrading by purchasing the product. Advertising costs money. Reviews are not under the control of the company producing the product, but of the magazine printing them. Pirates will just steal the latest version when it comes out and is cracked. >How to exploit piracy to your advantage: > >1. When someone calls up your telephone support service, get the > caller's name and address. Then try to get the caller's > registration number. If the caller can't furnish proof of > purchase, either politely decline support, or better still, > provide the support. Now you may have a new customer for > subsequent releases of the product, related products, etc. What kind of proof should you demand? I have lived at two addresses since I've had my ST. Many of the registration cards I've mailed in were send from my former address. Should I be denied support because I've moved? You're requiring the company to keep a database of all known users; this takes time and money to enter and maintain. And what's to stop software thieves from registering one copy and spreading the name of the imaginary user around with the stolen copy? > If you're providing timely updates, the pirate is likely to > be requesting support on an out-of-date version of the program. > Sell the caller the new version! Do people with stolen programs actually have the chutzpah to call in for customer support?? >2. In the program's documentation, give ordering information, and > list the advantages of purchasing the product. If a pirate > is convinced, you may get an order. I doubt it. How many people actually send in payment for shareware programs that they use, even if they use them frequently? >3. Because of piracy, much software is copy-protected. Don't copy- > protect your software and advertise the fact. This will give you > a competitive advantage over similar products that are copy-protected. Better yet, use an "enter the nth word on page x" protection scheme, which at least requires a copy of the manual. >4. If you find your program on a BBS, don't call the FBI. Get the > sysop to remove the posting, and place an advertisement of the > product that every BBS user will read. If you've been > providing timely updates, the pirates will be interested in > purchasing the updated version from you. No, do call the FBI. Copyright infringment is a serious crime. Chances are if your program is on the BBS, there are tens or hundreds of other stolen programs as well. The sorts of things you describe here can only be afforded by companies who can charge (and get) hundreds of dollars for a product. This leaves out all of the smaller manufacturers with products in the $20-$100 range, which is most of them. What kind of customer support do you provide for a game? Just how many disks do you think a publisher can afford to mail for that $45 purchase price, of which 30% goes to the retailer, and %10 to the programmer, after deducting the cost of manufacture (duplication), disks, boxes, manuals, binders, shipping and overhead? The reason you are seeing software companies dropping the ST in droves is because they can't get the sales volume necessary from our small market in the US (less than 300,000 machines) to make a reasonable profit and keep the price affordable to ST users. Why should they try when there are over 1,500,000 IBM PCs out there? Capturing 10% of the U.S. ST market (which I understand constitues a "hit") would be a sale of just 30,000 copies, while 10% of the IBM market would be 150,000 copies. That's half of the installed ST base! Software theft is just another nail in the coffin. Longish .signature follows. Skip now. Greg Wageman DOMAIN: greg@sj.ate.slb.com Schlumberger Technologies UUCP: ...!uunet!sjsca4!greg 1601 Technology Drive BIX: gwage San Jose, CA 95110-1397 CIS: 74016,352 (408) 437-5198 GEnie: G.WAGEMAN ------------------ "Live Free; Die Anyway." ------------------ Opinions expressed herein are solely the responsibility of the author.
SML108@PSUVM.BITNET (06/24/89)
In article <4332@druhi.ATT.COM>, terrell@druhi.ATT.COM (TerrellE) says: > >My two cents worth on ST piracy: > >Many software developers seem to be blaming all of their problems on >piracy. Although piracy is an enormous challenge to the software >industry, I don't think that it should be used as a scapegoat. > >If I were a software developer victimized by piracy, rather than just >complain, I would change the way I do business: I would (1) ensure that the >users of my software derived significant advantages from purchasing the >product, and (2) exploit piracy to my advantage. > >How to make purchase of the product advantageous: > >1. Provide real customer support. > >2. Provide timely updates/upgrades/new products. Make sure that your > distribution methods are faster than the pirates'. > >3. Provide complete, comprehensive user documentation. A paper manual > is more attractive than a disk file, and it cannot be distributed > on a BBS. > >4. Provide a monthly user newsletter. > >5. Keep users informed (by advertising, product reviews, press releases) > of the current version of the program. Pirates with old versions > of the program will consider upgrading by purchasing the product. > >How to exploit piracy to your advantage: > >1. When someone calls up your telephone support service, get the > caller's name and address. Then try to get the caller's > registration number. If the caller can't furnish proof of > purchase, either politely decline support, or better still, > provide the support. Now you may have a new customer for > subsequent releases of the product, related products, etc. > > If you're providing timely updates, the pirate is likely to > be requesting support on an out-of-date version of the program. > Sell the caller the new version! > >2. In the program's documentation, give ordering information, and > list the advantages of purchasing the product. If a pirate > is convinced, you may get an order. > >3. Because of piracy, much software is copy-protected. Don't copy- > protect your software and advertise the fact. This will give you > a competitive advantage over similar products that are copy-protected. > >4. If you find your program on a BBS, don't call the FBI. Get the > sysop to remove the posting, and place an advertisement of the > product that every BBS user will read. If you've been > providing timely updates, the pirates will be interested in > purchasing the updated version from you. > >I'd be interested in hearing additional suggestions on how to avoid piracy, >and how to exploit it when it does happen. > > > > >Terrell Some of your ideas are very good, but I still favor the proesuction of people out there who run pirate bbs's. They are scum, and have no respect for the amount of effort that goes into writing a program This situation is especially critical on the ST. Most developers are like me, and run small operations out of their homes, and license their software to a major distributor. I constantly hear arguments about the high prices of software, but most entertainment software can be purchased for the price of 2 CD's, which most people are willing to shell out. Even if you like Madonna, how many times are you going to her ? About half as long as it takes to solve Sundog I'll bet. One counterpoint though is that I also believe that NO software for home computers should cost more than $100. Unfortunately, I also believe that lowering the price of programs to that point would have little or no effect on idiots who pirate programs that cost $15. that's my two cents, for whatever it's worth....
schock@cpsc.ucalgary.ca (Craig Schock) (06/25/89)
In article <89174.211048SML108@PSUVM>, SML108@PSUVM.BITNET writes: > I constantly hear arguments > about the high prices of software, but most entertainment software > can be purchased for the price of 2 CD's, which most people are willing > to shell out. Even if you like Madonna, how many times are you going > to her ? About half as long as it takes to solve Sundog I'll bet. I'd tend to agree with the price of software being too high. Personally, I would "shell" out the price for CD's but find it very difficult to do the same for a software package. Whether or not you get more enjoyment out of some software or out of CD's really isn't the point; it comes down to what the consumer is willing to pay for, and right now, most consumers seem to be willing to pay more for the CD's than software. I guess I feel this way because whenever I need some software, I usually program it myself. However, I may find some difficulty in engineering and mastering music for myself. Craig
Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) (06/26/89)
Terrell made a two-pronged list of how to protect products of
piracy and how to make piracy advantageous. His first prong was to
make sure that the product was one worth having because of its Customer
Support, Update Announcements, Monthly Newsletters, and decent
Documentation. His second prong was to make the product workable
through piracy by having Customer Support request the user's name/address
or registration number, etc., and declining support if the user
cannot supply such or maybe even providing support. He stated that
when new releases come out, the pirate will want the latest, thus wanting
to finally buy, in order that he will get the latest. He concluded
with having Ordering Information in the documentation, never Copy
Protect, and finally Never Prosecute. If copies are found on a BBS,
then the SysOp should be told to remove the posting and an advertisement
be posted instead for the product.
First off, none of this will work. Indeed, this type of logic makes
me see nothing but red. Terrell is trying to solve a complex problem
which is not meant to be complex at all. The very nature of the software
market makes stealing software easy and natural. Taking something from
a shelf without paying is simple. The methods of protecting that
product are complex. Piracy is stealing. It is pure theft. Thief.
Crook. Scum....
WordPerfect ST has everything and more of the first prong that
Terrell mentioned. It has an 800 customer support line. The people
will even call you at your home to get you up and going, for crying out
loud! They've got a monthly newsletter, their manual is over 600 pages.
The bookstores have volumes of books on how to use WordPerfect (though for
the IBM/Macs).
Product support, and indeed PRICE, will not end piracy, stealing,
scum thieving of a product. When the August 88 release of WordPerfect
entered the market last year, by two days after the first mailing, the
product was on the ST pirate boards. Many of these boards are university
student BBSes, where students can purchase WordPerfect for $99.00.
In further support of human nature scum stealing software no matter
the cost, I can recall Beagle Brothers products for the Apple // series.
A successful company even to this day, they offered utility packages
as cheap as $8.00. Yet, the pirate boards were rampant at distributing
their products, in spite of the low costs.
If I were a developer, I'd persecute pirates and distributors
to the full extent of the law and then some. Prison sentences,
confiscation of equipment comes to mind.
If I were a developer, I'd distribute a crippled WORKING
version of the product, with key routines REMOVED. I can recall
during the early days when MichTron's TimeBandits came out, version
0.96. It was never meant to be distributed but that was a working
version. However, it did not have all the features of the final
product. I can recall my reaction, "Man, where can I buy the real
thing?" A crippled version, without tons of ads in it, would let
'Honest Joe' evaluate a product without buying something that he
doesn't want.
WordPerfect sells to college students an IBM version of their
product in which a reference manual and crippled disk can be had
for $11.00! Shucks, the reference manual is worth the $11.00. Being
able to look at the software is a nice bonus.
Finally, if I were a developer, I'd make sure that my final
product includes a backup disk of the original if my product was
a likely candidate for piracy forcing me TO INSTALL COPY PROTECTION.
AppleWriter did this for their product. That was a long time
ago but I still think it is a good idea.
If I were forced to install copy protection, then I would make
sure that the product was able to be installed on a hard drive.
Oh well...
Just as Terrell tried to address this awful scum bag problem and
flopped, in my opinion, so did I. It is difficult to fight those
who, through trashy ethics, find it ok to steal. They are going to
steal, no matter what is done.
The bottom line is whether the software is making a profit. We've
got to evangelise the ST so that its volume will pick up.
Ok, flame me. I meant this to be a simple comment. Didn't mean
for it to be a book.
Larry Rymal <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET>fmr@cwi.nl (Frank Rahmani) (06/26/89)
??Path: mcvax!uunet!lll-winken!csd4.milw.wisc.edu!bionet!agate!ucbvax!SFAUSTIN.BITNET!Z4648252 ??From: Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) ??Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st ??Subject: Just a simple thanks... ??Message-ID: <890624.20021969.023570@SFA.CP6> ??Date: 25 Jun 89 02:02:20 GMT ??Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU ??Organization: The Internet ??Lines: 20 ?? ?? ?? It boggles my mind, folks, and I won't hog too much space. However, ??I just want to pass a note of thanks to every STer in the world, and I ??mean 'world' literally, who has given me so much help in the various ??aspects of running my ST system. ?? Although I have daily operated an ST since the summer of 1985, I ??formerly did so in a large city area where ST BBSes and clubs were ??common-place. We would all get together, someone would come up with a ??brain storm, and eventually we would get the idea and sometimes the ??problem solved. I grew to take that for granted. ?? Two years or so ago, I moved to a rural area where no STs exist, or ??any other computer for that matter, other than a few Macs. I found myself ??isolated and totally on my own when I discovered a new potential, or new ??idea, and unfortunately, new problem on my ST. ?? It is through this net that STers throughout the world have offered ??aid and much help. The INFO-A16 magazine has solved more problems for ??me and extended the life of my machine than any other method. Thanks to ??all. I just had to say this. Pat yourselves on the back... ?? ??Larry Rymal <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET> ? ? Terrell made a two-pronged list of how to protect products of ? piracy and how to make piracy advantageous. His first prong was to ? make sure that the product was one worth having because of its Customer ? Support, Update Announcements, Monthly Newsletters, and decent ? Documentation. His second prong was to make the product workable ? through piracy by having Customer Support request the user's name/address ? or registration number, etc., and declining support if the user ? cannot supply such or maybe even providing support. He stated that ? when new releases come out, the pirate will want the latest, thus wanting ? to finally buy, in order that he will get the latest. He concluded ? with having Ordering Information in the documentation, never Copy ? Protect, and finally Never Prosecute. If copies are found on a BBS, ? then the SysOp should be told to remove the posting and an advertisement ? be posted instead for the product. ? First off, none of this will work. Indeed, this type of logic makes ? me see nothing but red. Terrell is trying to solve a complex problem ? which is not meant to be complex at all. The very nature of the software ? market makes stealing software easy and natural. Taking something from ? a shelf without paying is simple. The methods of protecting that ? product are complex. Piracy is stealing. It is pure theft. Thief. ? Crook. Scum.... ? WordPerfect ST has everything and more of the first prong that ? Terrell mentioned. It has an 800 customer support line. The people ? will even call you at your home to get you up and going, for crying out ? loud! They've got a monthly newsletter, their manual is over 600 pages. ? The bookstores have volumes of books on how to use WordPerfect (though for ? the IBM/Macs). ? Product support, and indeed PRICE, will not end piracy, stealing, ? scum thieving of a product. When the August 88 release of WordPerfect ? entered the market last year, by two days after the first mailing, the ? product was on the ST pirate boards. Many of these boards are university ? student BBSes, where students can purchase WordPerfect for $99.00. ? In further support of human nature scum stealing software no matter ? the cost, I can recall Beagle Brothers products for the Apple // series. ? A successful company even to this day, they offered utility packages ? as cheap as $8.00. Yet, the pirate boards were rampant at distributing ? their products, in spite of the low costs. ? If I were a developer, I'd persecute pirates and distributors ? to the full extent of the law and then some. Prison sentences, ? confiscation of equipment comes to mind. ? If I were a developer, I'd distribute a crippled WORKING ? version of the product, with key routines REMOVED. I can recall ? during the early days when MichTron's TimeBandits came out, version ? 0.96. It was never meant to be distributed but that was a working ? version. However, it did not have all the features of the final ? product. I can recall my reaction, "Man, where can I buy the real ? thing?" A crippled version, without tons of ads in it, would let ? 'Honest Joe' evaluate a product without buying something that he ? doesn't want. ? WordPerfect sells to college students an IBM version of their ? product in which a reference manual and crippled disk can be had ? for $11.00! Shucks, the reference manual is worth the $11.00. Being ? able to look at the software is a nice bonus. ? Finally, if I were a developer, I'd make sure that my final ? product includes a backup disk of the original if my product was ? a likely candidate for piracy forcing me TO INSTALL COPY PROTECTION. ? AppleWriter did this for their product. That was a long time ? ago but I still think it is a good idea. ? If I were forced to install copy protection, then I would make ? sure that the product was able to be installed on a hard drive. ? Oh well... ? Just as Terrell tried to address this awful scum bag problem and ? flopped, in my opinion, so did I. It is difficult to fight those ? who, through trashy ethics, find it ok to steal. They are going to ? steal, no matter what is done. ? The bottom line is whether the software is making a profit. We've ? got to evangelise the ST so that its volume will pick up. ? Ok, flame me. I meant this to be a simple comment. Didn't mean ? for it to be a book. ? ? Larry Rymal <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET> Dear Larry, just as there are two opposing sides to your character, as shown by your two postings (one very friendly ,the other full of name-calling), there are also two opposing aspects to software piracy. I just wonder why nobody wants to accept this. Software pirats want to have, no, they must have every piece of software that's around, but on the other side they would never buy it. They like the possession of all these beautiful pieces of code and if they are clever enough they see it as a challenge to break any copy protection. The software industrie looses nothing on them, because they see byuing as an insult to their capability to score. This has nothing to do with the price of the software. For them other values are applicable. A text processor worth $200 without manual may have a much lower exchange rate than that foxy $10 supergame in their circles. Believe it or not, these people are not dangerous. That are the other ones, John Doe's who have enough money to buy the software but wan't miss the chance of getting it for free or very little money. Those people could be customers.They are using the phenomenon pirates to save money. They are even on the net, condemning software piracy (and silently smiling about the thaught of what's in their drawer, who would have any suspicions about them?). And they are numerous. A whole new industry has grown to support them. That's the books, that for a just reasonable price of $20-$30 make -as one states on the cover-the original user manual superficious. Some of them are more or less literally re-writes of the original manuals. Without these books it would be nearly impossible to use the pirated packages. Or would you like to copy a 600-page odd-format manual? The 'trial set' of WordPerfect you mention is just another of these books, this time even the original. WP thinks: if we can't sell them the software, we'll at least sell them the manual before somebody else clones it. Quite another issue is the availability of a certain package. No normal software dealer here in Europe has more than at most ten copies of an expensive program (from fear to not get rid of them). So if the people want to buy the package,only the first ten are lucky. The others go home empty handed. So next day someone offers them the program. And even for a cheap price. Imagine what they are doing... In general it can be said that software piracy is a phenomenon that's here to stay. It is proved that no scheme, whatever complicated, can prevent software piracy in the long run without making the prices higher or the user comfort lower. Even if you would give the software away for free to all known hacker types, next day somebody else would start stealing the program. I don't advocate software stealing at all, I'm just realistic enough to recognize that there is nothing we can do about it. As long as the majority of users chooses to buy their software, we're lucky. Once this fragile balance tips to the other side...who knows what wiill happen. I realise that especially the small companies are very vulnerable, but there is little they can do to prevent being robbed, too many aspects bear an influence on their sales-success. Name-calling on the net is useless. Try to convince people not to accept given copies of software without manuals, try to show people how much info can be won from the manual and try to give them the feeling that byuing software is not just stupid but also fair. I wish all software developers a reasonable income from their efforts. Regards fmr@cwi.nl -- It is better never to have been born. But who among us has such luck? Maintainer's Motto: If we can't fix it, it ain't broke. These opinions are solely mine and in no way reflect those of my employer.
rcc9885@ultb.UUCP (R.C. Costello) (06/26/89)
Here is my to cents on how to stop software piracy. The solution is quite simple, but would involve a little work on the dealers part. Every piece of software should have the registration card attached to the OUTSIDE of the box. Then when the software is purchased, the dealer will be responsible for filling out the card. Then, when a piece of software is found on a BBS, the company can look up the serial number and know who purchased the orginal piece of software. This may not stop the small time pirate who makes a copy for one or two of his friends, but I don't think they hurt the developers *as much as* the *FULL TIME* pirate. In order to pirate software, SOMEONE *HAS* to buy the orginal, and the software company will know who it was. This also solves a few other problems. First, the software company will have a more accurate count of the number of software packages sold. I know I always TRY to send them registration cards in, but I always loose one once in while. I wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. I suppose there will always be the person who will feel that they shouldn't have to give the company there name. And the only fallide excude is that some people don't like being on mailing lists, but the card could have a small box to check if you don't like junk mail. Not to say that I have every recieved an overwhelming amount of junk mail. (Just one, the ICD catalog, not to say that it was junk) The software companies may have to give a little more dealer incentive, say 5% profit increase (by loweing the amount the dealer buys it for) This will allow "discount" (ha!) dealers and mail order to be a little more competive. NOW, ofcourse every plan has its downfalls. I suppose one could lie, and it would not be beyond the intelligence scope of a pirate to do so, and IDing a person would probably be to much to ask, and there would be little way to stop someone from purchasing something mail order with COD. But even having FALSE information may have benificial help to the software companies. Example, pirate gives false name, dealer looks up on chart, hmm, this is a BAD person. Dealer then fills in a short form and sends it to the company (or how about a SPECIAL ANTI-PIRACY agency) and then they know where to atleast look. Well, I thought it had potential. ------------------------- Robert Costello
terrell@druhi.ATT.COM (TerrellE) (06/26/89)
In article <890625.11081288.023669@SFA.CP6>, Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET (Z4648252) writes: > > Terrell made a two-pronged list of how to protect products of > piracy and how to make piracy advantageous. His first prong was to > make sure that the product was one worth having because of its Customer > Support, Update Announcements, Monthly Newsletters, and decent > Documentation. His second prong was to make the product workable > through piracy by having Customer Support request the user's name/address > or registration number, etc., and declining support if the user > cannot supply such or maybe even providing support. He stated that > when new releases come out, the pirate will want the latest, thus wanting > to finally buy, in order that he will get the latest. He concluded > with having Ordering Information in the documentation, never Copy > Protect, and finally Never Prosecute. If copies are found on a BBS, > then the SysOp should be told to remove the posting and an advertisement > be posted instead for the product. > First off, none of this will work. Indeed, this type of logic makes > me see nothing but red. Terrell is trying to solve a complex problem > which is not meant to be complex at all. The very nature of the software > market makes stealing software easy and natural. Taking something from > a shelf without paying is simple. The methods of protecting that > product are complex. Piracy is stealing. It is pure theft. Thief. > Crook. Scum.... I did not mean to present a list of practices guaranteed to solve all problems caused by piracy. My intent was to give some suggestions that I believe will lessen the problem. I still believe that if a wonderful program is released with an on-disk manual, it will tend to be pirated more often than the same program provided with a paper manual. None of my suggestions were intended to solve the problem, all of them were intended to lessen the piracy of software products, and take advantage of the "advertising medium" of software piracy. I absolutely agree with you that software pirates are thieves, and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. For almost one year I have invested my free time into a software product, and the fact that piracy of my program is guaranteed really makes me angry. However, as a software developer you really have only 2 choices: regard pirates as scumbag thieves which contributes nothing to your profits, or consider pirates as potential customers, which really could contribute to your bottom line. Actually there's a third alternative, which many software developers choose: ignore the problem altogether, and give customers little reason to pay money for the product. Do you remember Bill Gates' "Dear Software Thieves" letter (in Stephen Levy's outstanding book "Hackers")? If I had been in the same situation, rather than just venting my spleen, I would announce a new version of the program, present arguments about why buying the product is advantageous, and generate some sales. There's no way that I would let that amount of free advertising go to waste. And last but not least, I'm sick and tired of the argument that Atari users are somehow worse pirates than everyone else. All of the piracy that I see involves people "bringing home" software from their workplace. This avenue of software piracy really isn't available for ST owners. I have trouble believing that Atari users are worse pirates because they simply have much fewer opportunities. Has it ever occurred to these software companies that their Atari sales might be lower than expected for some of these reasons: 1. The product's ST instance is of significantly lower quality than it is for other machines. 2. There are fewer Atari ST's in this country than IBM PC's and Macs. 3. Potential customers are unconvinced that the ST instance of the product will ever make it beyond version 1.00. etc. Later, Terrell
SML108@PSUVM.BITNET (06/28/89)
In response to various hard reaalities about software piracy....... I agree that software piracy is here to stay, and little can be done to get rid of them, but I still wish to CONDEMN them. There are alot of drug dealers, pimps, and other assorted criminal types which are also here to stay, but that does not make me accept them.... I am a developer, my products do get pirated, and it p's me off, period. If they were not going to buy my product anyways, then I DON'T WANT THEM USING IT ! Get the picture ? Just because I don't plan to buy your car, does that allow me to come over to your dwelling place and take it for a spin ? There is no rationlization for piracy, it is theft, and that is all it is. Anyone that is making a livelihood off that theft is a thief. I prescribe the Islamic punishment for thieves. Flame away, these are just my views....... Scott Le Grand
neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) (06/29/89)
In article <1108@snjsn1.SJ.ATE.SLB.COM> greg@sj.ate.slb.com (Greg Wageman) writes: >Advertising costs money. Reviews are not under the control of the >company producing the product, but of the magazine printing them. So sure of this are you? Reviews have a price. Big software companies have big lunches for reviewers with loads of booze. I have read of game software as being great when reviewed and a load of pud in references. Basically the company wrote the review itself. Have you ever seen one of those ads that are a dead ringer for a review page? The magazine shouldn't allow these sort of ads in but they do. For a price? Other piracy issues: Some say the price of software is too high. Some agree with this and some don't. A lot of software comes in lavish and expensive packaging. This is especially true of games software. And of course the cost of all this is reflected in the price. I say lose it. The disk(s) and the manual is all there really is. You can put them in a resealable plastic bag for all I care. For games, a summary and a screenshot will do. Playtest it in the shop before buying. _____________________________________________________________________________ / DISCLAIMER: Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own \ ! ! ! "I think all right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of ! ! being told that ordinary decent people are fed up in this country with ! ! being sick and tired. I'm certainly not and I'm sick and tired of being ! ! told that I am!" - Monty Python ! ! ! ! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs ! ! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk ! ! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil ! ! Edinburgh ! ! Scotland ! \_____________________________________________________________________________/
dlm@druwy.ATT.COM (Dan Moore) (06/29/89)
in article <1108@snjsn1.SJ.ATE.SLB.COM>, greg@bilbo (Greg Wageman) says: > In article <4332@druhi.ATT.COM> terrell@druhi.ATT.COM (TerrellE) writes: >> If you're providing timely updates, the pirate is likely to >> be requesting support on an out-of-date version of the program. >> Sell the caller the new version! > > Do people with stolen programs actually have the chutzpah to call in > for customer support?? As amazing as it sounds they do. When I was handling technical support at Data Pacific I had *lots* of calls from people who obviously didn't have a real Magic Sac (when they asked "What cartridge?" it is pretty obvious). When I was writing stuff for the 8 bits I even had people call me at home with questions on PaperClip and SynFile+. (I had been an officer in a local Atari club and had given out my home number before I started writing commercial software. Huge mistake.) My normal answer to calls at home was "Call the publisher (Synapse or BI)" or "It's on page xx of the manual". It's amazing how many people's dogs eat their manuals. And when the calls started coming at 2 and 3 AM ... > The reason you are seeing software companies dropping the ST in droves > is because they can't get the sales volume necessary from our small > market in the US (less than 300,000 machines) to make a reasonable > profit and keep the price affordable to ST users. Why should they try > when there are over 1,500,000 IBM PCs out there? Capturing 10% of the > U.S. ST market (which I understand constitues a "hit") would be a sale > of just 30,000 copies, while 10% of the IBM market would be 150,000 > copies. That's half of the installed ST base! Software theft is just > another nail in the coffin. There are over 15,000,000 PClones in the US. Around 4,000,000 Macs and over 1,000,000 Amigas. I'm surprised anyone bothers to write for the small markets (ST, Amiga, the Mac to some extent), there just isn't that much money in those markets. Oh yes, 10% (30,000+ copies) isn't a hit on the ST. That's a BIG hit. I know programs on the ST that are famous (ie. everyone knows about it or has it) that haven't sold 20,000 pieces after several years. At one point a big game publisher's best selling game on the ST had sold 5,000 copies in one year, the Amiga version had sold 6,500 in about 8 months, the PC version had sold 25,000 in 3 months. The author (who started on the 8 bit Atari's and moved to the ST) is now writing games for PClones. Dan Moore AT&T Bell Labs Denver dlm@druwy.ATT.COM
rosenkra@hall.cray.com (Bill Rosenkranz) (07/02/89)
--- there is no way to stop s/w piracy... adding copy protection, dongles, serial numbers, etc does nothing. it only aggrivates the people who actually BUY the s/w. anyone with a disassembler and time can crack any scheme invented. the solution, if you are a developer (like me) is to either accept this fact and continue to produce mass-market s/w, hoping that you sell enough to cover your costs (read: TIME) fast enough (before THEY get at it) or switch your efforts to the commercial marketplace (the forture 1000 has deep pockets if u really need to sue because of illegal copying/distribution). why s/w is any different than any other product/commodity is totally beyond me. they throw u in jail if you steal a car, but stealing software is (somehow) acceptable (or at least difficult to prosecute). there is a 3rd alternative: make software that requires a special h/w device. then you are in the h/w biz and the software is a give-away :^). bye-bye... -bill rosenkra@boston.cray.com