parora@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Pavneet Arora) (01/01/88)
I was just reading this quarter's STart magazine (Wint87), and came across an article on Zoomracks - an ST product which sounds a lot like Hypercard for the Mac. One major difference being that Zoomracks has been around for 3 years. The article is interesting. If anyone has used the product, perhaps they can post their views. Why hasn't this product come to light earlier? One thing I did notice was that the screens used in this article gave a definite edge to Hypercard since there were beautiful graphics mixed with text. Is this a shortcoming of Zoomracks? By the way the author of Zoomracks is Paul Heckel - the same person who developed the Craig Language Translator and wrote "The Elements of Friendly Software Design" (This is from the article). Pavneet Arora parora@utgpu
trb@stag.UUCP ( Todd Burkey ) (01/02/88)
In article <1987Dec31.203153.28991@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu> parora@gpu.utcs.toronto.edu (Pavneet Arora) writes: > >I was just reading this quarter's STart magazine (Wint87), and came across an >article on Zoomracks - an ST product which sounds a lot like Hypercard for the >Mac. One major difference being that Zoomracks has been around for 3 years. Yep, I got the Zoomracks II version while at Comdex over a year ago...it lets you store degas pictures as part of your datasets...among other features. > >Why hasn't this product come to light earlier? One thing I did notice was >that the screens used in this article gave a definite edge to Hypercard >since there were beautiful graphics mixed with text. Is this a shortcoming >of Zoomracks? Yes, and no...It depends upon how much you really depend on graphics. I like the Zoomracks approach because it got more information on the screen at once (although it looks like a mess if you were expecting graphics.) But then, I also am the type of person that turns off my icons on the ST display and just use narrow vertical boxes of text file names for my desktop view (to see more files). From a programmers point of view, I still have yet to come up with a use for hypercard (I've played with it and am not impressed enough to upgrade my wifes Mac just for that). Zoomracks II seems to have a lot of power and macro programmability to it, but give a person a good database, a good spreadsheet, and a good word processor and they will probably be more happy in the long run. I know that a lot of the MCC people down in Texas are doing Hypertext based applications (which hypercard was derived from). It would be nice if they tried porting some of their stuff over to the ST's (they are currently SUN and Symbolics based.) I think the Mega's would make a nice engine for their needs (and things like the ABAQ would fit into their longer term AI stuff where they are really going to need the horsepower). If I remember right, MCC stands for Micro-electronics Computer Consortium and is a research organization funded by 20 or so large companies in the US to develop new technology in a variety of computer and IC design specific areas... -Todd Burkey trb@stag.UUCP
pes@ux63.bath.ac.uk (Smee) (01/08/88)
No, Hypercard for the Mac is virtually a complete programming (or maybe, better, working) environment which overlays the O/S. It *can* be used for ZoomRack-like record keeping, but if that's all you do with it, it's a bit like using an atomic bomb to kill flies. There must be a comp.sys.apple.mac meeting about (or something like that), and if so, I'd bet they could clue you in.
csrobe@CS.WM.EDU (Chip Roberson) (07/11/89)
I've some of the interesting info about Zoomracks in STReport and if I had known that it was a hyper-like media, I would have probably bought it by now (especially, if it had a nice GEM interface). Does anyone remember a Zoomracks DEMO somewhere on the net? Or am I hallucinating again? It's been a real thorn in my foot that Macs have hypermedia and Ataris don't! I don't understand why Atari didn't get behind Zoomracks? I know MacHeads that are HyperCard freaks. I can't see anything but good coming from Ataris having a multi-media hypercard (especially with MIDI available!) Anyone seen the mail system on Andrew? Being able to send an animated mail message is pretty slick and a definite wave of the future. So can anybody point me to a Zoomracks demo? cheers, -c | Chip Roberson ARPANET: csrobe@cs.wm.edu | | Dept of Comp. Sci. csrobe@icase.edu | | College of William and Mary BITNET: #csrobe@wmmvs.bitnet | | Williamsburg, VA 23185 UUCP: ...!uunet!cs.wm.edu!csrobe | -=- The Animal-Rights mailing list is now on the air. -=- -=- Send mail to Animal-Rights-Request@cs.odu.edu to subscribe. -=-
csrobe@CS.WM.EDU (Chip Roberson) (07/12/89)
I just called Quickview Systems (146 Main Street, Los Altos, CA 94022) @ 415-965-0327 to see if they had a Demo of the ST version of Zoomracks and I was saddened by the reply. The voice on the other side of the phone said that the PC version was being sold as shareware through PCSig, but that they had no demos of the ST version and that it has been "placed on the back burner." He went on to say that the ST market had been a disappointment and that they felt the ST users were not into productivity software. From what I read in ST report, it seems more likely that Quickview had a really rough time trying to get the marketing and advertising going. I remember seeing the box for it in the computer store when I bought my ST 4 years ago, but I did not know that it was a card-oriented thought processor like HyperCard until I read STReport a few weeks back. I'd like to suggest to anyone who is interested in this product to let Quickview systems know that there is a market. I really think there would be a market if they could intergrate graphics into their cards and make it GEM based. If anybody has a demo of Zoomracks, I would greatly appreciate a receiving a copy. Thanks, -c | Chip Roberson ARPANET: csrobe@cs.wm.edu | | Dept of Comp. Sci. csrobe@icase.edu | | College of William and Mary BITNET: #csrobe@wmmvs.bitnet | | Williamsburg, VA 23185 UUCP: ...!uunet!cs.wm.edu!csrobe | -=- The Animal-Rights mailing list is now on the air. -=- -=- Send mail to Animal-Rights-Request@cs.odu.edu to subscribe. -=-
liebo@csclea.ncsu.edu (Dr. Stan Liebowitz) (07/12/89)
Yes, it is a sad story. But from what I have read, Mr, Heckel, the author of zoomracks (I believe) took money for zoomracks 3 without ever delivering. He seems more interested in gaining a copyright for the design than in improving the program (he would like to sue Apple, it appears). We should wish him well, but don't forget that he apparently ripped off his most faithful users. Hopefully someone with a stronger conscience will write such a program..
davidli@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU (Dave Meile) (07/12/89)
In article <8907112259.AA07041@cs.wm.edu> csrobe@CS.WM.EDU (Chip Roberson) writes: >From what I read in ST report, it seems more likely that Quickview had >a really rough time trying to get the marketing and advertising going. >I remember seeing the box for it in the computer store when I bought my >ST 4 years ago, but I did not know that it was a card-oriented thought >processor like HyperCard until I read STReport a few weeks back. > >I'd like to suggest to anyone who is interested in this product to let >Quickview systems know that there is a market. I really think there >would be a market if they could intergrate graphics into their cards and >make it GEM based. > >If anybody has a demo of Zoomracks, I would greatly appreciate a receiving >a copy. I have problems with Chip's suggestion. I bought Zoomracks II. I PAID for an update version, oh, about 2 years back which I still have not received. Quickview Systems does not _deserve_ any "support" from Atari ST owners, as their own level of support to registered users who PAID for the next version of their product has been zilch. The program itself has quirks which were, at one time, not too frustrating to deal with. However, in the years since its initial release, Zoomracks has become less and less useful. It is NOT a HyperCard. It was written (so I've been told) in a version of Forth which does not take kindly to such things as desk accessories and RAM disks. Use of the mouse is, for all practical purposes, nil. It does not use the GEM interface, and the keyboard manipulations you need to do in order to accomplish something are on par with early versions of Word Star on CP/M systems. Be prepared to make use of your Alternate key as you've never used it before! There is a demo version, which I can probably send to you if you're really interested. Send me e-mail and I'll give you details on how to get a disk and stamped envelope to me. By the way -- are there any other dissatisfied Zoomracks owners who paid for the upgrade who might be interested in a class-action suit against Quickview Systems? -- Dave Meile
hcj@lzaz.ATT.COM (HC Johnson) (07/13/89)
In article <14369@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU>, davidli@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU (Dave Meile) writes: > > By the way -- are there any other dissatisfied Zoomracks owners who paid for > the upgrade who might be interested in a class-action suit against Quickview > Systems? > > -- Dave Meile Add me to the suit. I'm still waiting for the real GEM based zoomracks I paid for. Howard C. Johnson ATT Bell Labs att!lzaz!hcj hcj@lzaz.att.com
bill@meadow.UUCP (Bill Foster) (07/16/89)
> > In article <8907112259.AA07041@cs.wm.edu> csrobe@CS.WM.EDU (Chip Roberson) writes: > >From what I read in ST report, it seems more likely that Quickview had > >a really rough time trying to get the marketing and advertising going. > >I remember seeing the box for it in the computer store when I bought my > >ST 4 years ago, but I did not know that it was a card-oriented thought > >processor like HyperCard until I read STReport a few weeks back. > > I have problems with Chip's suggestion. I bought Zoomracks II. I PAID for > an update version, oh, about 2 years back which I still have not received. > Quickview Systems does not _deserve_ any "support" from Atari ST owners, as > their own level of support to registered users who PAID for the next version > of their product has been zilch. > > The program itself has quirks which were, at one time, not too frustrating > to deal with. However, in the years since its initial release, Zoomracks > has become less and less useful. It is NOT a HyperCard. It was written > (so I've been told) in a version of Forth which does not take kindly to > such things as desk accessories and RAM disks. Use of the mouse is, for > all practical purposes, nil. It does not use the GEM interface, and the > keyboard manipulations you need to do in order to accomplish something are > on par with early versions of Word Star on CP/M systems. Be prepared to > make use of your Alternate key as you've never used it before! > By the way -- are there any other dissatisfied Zoomracks owners who paid for > the upgrade who might be interested in a class-action suit against Quickview > Systems? > > -- Dave Meile If you want to use a database, why not buy an IBM compat?? I own an ST and an AT, the combo is far from perfect for they are not yet even really talking to eachother (help is on the way). The AT outperforms the ST in sheer speed and the amount of software that's out there, but the ST is a superior machine because of the way it was designed and the way I like to program it. It would be nice to be able to look/work with every machine that is out there so that one may make an intelligent decision on what to buy. Don't sue zoomracks - ask for your money back. I bet they put a lot of work into a project that one would pay money for (as much work as someone working for microsoft). Sure, they were fools to write it in forth (ah) and sell something they didn't have, but you can't get something for nothing. Really. BFOSTER = GEnie, WHTB33B = Prodigy {~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~} {~} <> Bill Foster <> | /|\ {~} {~} | {~} {~} /|\ | Vegetarians 4-ever {~} {~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~} {amdahl,hplabs,decwrl}!pacbell!cpro!meadow!bill