covertr@gtephx.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (07/11/89)
I just saw a version of 'uucp' being sold by the company that makes the MT C Shell. I also noticed in the credits for uucp in the manual, that it was ported to the ST from C Code by the GNU Freeware people. My question is: Is it ethical for someone to port freeware code from one one computer to another, and then sell the ported code?? The 'uucp' sold for $49.95 and has a very skimpy manual. About 10 pages in the small manual sized pages. Richard (gtephx!covertr) Covert
logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan) (07/11/89)
covertr@gtephx.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: > I just saw a version of 'uucp' being sold by the company > that makes the MT C Shell. I also noticed in the credits for uucp in the > manual, that it was ported to the ST from C Code by the GNU Freeware > people. My question is: > Is it ethical for someone to port freeware code from one > one computer to another, and then sell the ported code?? > > The 'uucp' sold for $49.95 and has a very skimpy manual. > About 10 pages in the small manual sized pages. You can get the GNU source code from Beckemeyer for $10 (to cover shipping/handling idsk :-) Included in the uucp package for $49.95 is other Beckemeyer software which is not GNU code. By the way, I wrote a GFA Basic version of uucp, and anyone who wants a copy of it (sorce code) can get it free for the asking. It seems to work for me. -- - John M. Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 - - logajan@ns.network.com / ...rutgers!umn-cs!ns!logajan / john@logajan.mn.org -
brinck@ucece1.ece.uc.edu (C. Brinck) (07/12/89)
In article <1479@ns.network.com> logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan) writes: >You can get the GNU source code from Beckemeyer for $10 (to cover >shipping/handling idsk :-) Is the GNU source available anywhere via anonymous FTP? > >By the way, I wrote a GFA Basic version of uucp, and anyone who wants >a copy of it (sorce code) can get it free for the asking. It seems to >work for me. A friend of mine is currently using Mailtruk, and is extremely pleased with its performance... > >-- >- John M. Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428 - >- logajan@ns.network.com / ...rutgers!umn-cs!ns!logajan / john@logajan.mn.org - --- Chris Brinck -- brinck@ucece1.ece.uc.edu
david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) (07/15/89)
I worked very closely with John Gillmore (hoptoad!gnu) the author of GNUUCP
and a close partner in the GNU project before I released the MT UUCP stuff.
We discussed *EXACTLY* what I was doing and what I intended to do with
GNUUCP. I found out exactly how to handle the distribution of GNUUCP,
with the agreement of John Gillmore and GNU.
Apparently the license for GNUUCP is slightly different from that of GCC.
In fact, GNUUCP has never become an official part of the GNU distribution
as far as I know.
I distribute the GNUUCP license I received from John Gillmore with
every copy of MT UUCP. I'm not going to post the whole license. It
is similar to the GCC license that Allan Pratt posted, but differs
in a few particular areas.
The relavent things regarding the GNUUCP license are:
1) I make the GNUUCP source code availabe for three years at
a nominal cost, as required by the license. Some parts
of the MT UUCP are *NOT* covered under the GNU license.
2) I am not selling a derivative work of GNUUCP. I am
selling my programs, the manual, and a warrantee and
professional support service. The service includes
technical support and a free BBS and also UUCP
connections.
3) All the appropriate GNU Copyright notices are present.
4) The fact that my programs are distributed on a disk
that also has GNUUCP doesn't mean that they are part
of GNUUCP or controlled by the GNU license.
I made a lot of modifications to the GNUUCP programs to add MT support.
I wrote some new programs, deriving some of the code from GNUUCP.
I wrote some programs from scratch, unrelated to GNUUCP.
All the code that I wrote which contains even one line from anything
in GNUUCP are covered by the GNU license and are available to anybody
who wants it, for a small copying fee. The programs that are not
derived from GNUUCP are not available except with MT C-Shell UUCP.
You don't get UUCP support or the manual or access to the UUCP BBS
files unless you are a registered owner of MT C-Shell UUCP.
I made the full source available to AT&T and GNU. They all agree that
the portions which are written and copyrighted by me aren't derived from
their code.
Is everybody happy?
--
David Beckemeyer (david@bdt.UUCP) | "Adios amigos. And, as they say when
Beckemeyer Development Tools | the boys are scratching the bad ones,
478 Santa Clara Ave. Oakland, CA 94610 | 'Stay a long time, Cowboy!'"
UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax}!unisoft!bdt!david | - Jo Moragnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore) (07/18/89)
David Beckemeyer is correct -- MT UUCP is legal. I supplied him with a prerelease of gnuucp, he ported it to the ST, and provided the changes back to me. He also wrote some auxiliary programs (NOT linked with FSF code) that do things like email and netnews, building on the facilities provided by gnuucp. I don't think any of you would claim that because the Unix netnews code uses uucp for its transport mechanism, its copyright must somehow be tied in with Unix uucp's. Ditto David's code. GNUUCP was distributed to David before the "generic" GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE was written, so it uses the old GNU license. GNUUCP has not been publicly distributed by FSF because I don't have the time to coordinate a large number of changes to it. I am having trouble keeping up with the small set of people who are currently working on the code. Unlike many GNU programs, this one is being used on many small systems (ST's, Macs, Amigas, CP/M, MSDOS) as well as a variety of Unix machines. An earlier version of GNUUCP is the transport layer for the program (ufgate) that gateways Fidonet email to and from the Usenet, for example. Without a central clearinghouse (one person) coordinating changes, there would soon be twenty variants, with twenty sets of bugs and features -- not what I or FSF are trying to accomplish. We're looking for a coordinator for it, who is as committed to keeping the small systems supported as the virtual memory 32-bit Unix systems. This attitude isn't common in the GNU project, but for a product that is part of the "glue" in the Worldnet, it is vital. By the way, David Beckemeyer said: > 2) I am not selling a derivative work of GNUUCP. I am > selling my programs, the manual, and a warrantee and > professional support service. The service includes > technical support and a free BBS and also UUCP > connections. It is fine to sell GNU programs and derivative works. You just have to include the source code, and the right to redistribute, along with the binaries (if any). The Free Software Foundation itself sells GNU programs, and you can too! -- John Gilmore {sun,pacbell,uunet,pyramid}!hoptoad!gnu gnu@toad.com "And if there's danger don't you try to overlook it, Because you knew the job was dangerous when you took it"
keithr@vice.ICO.TEK.COM (U.D.M.) (07/18/89)
Forgive my ignorance, but what does MT UUCP do? Keith keithr@icogem3.ICO.TEK.COM
BUGGS@cup.portal.com (William Edward JuneJr) (07/19/89)
John Gilmore wrote about a thing called ufgate, a Fido to UseNet gateway. Is there an ST version of this? Where can I get this? I run Binkley Term ST, and think the added capability would be GREAT!! Ed June
covertr@gtephx.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (07/21/89)
I want to thank DAvid Beckmeyer for his complete response to my question about his MT UUCP. It deos appear that he is in agreement with FSF, so I have no further questions about MT UUCP. And, thanks for porting UUCP Dave. Now, if only I had a 9600 baud modem to connect o hrc, I could use MT UUCP. Richard Covert