CCSCHR@UWOCC1.uwo.ca (Chuck Reid) (08/23/89)
I am one one of what I expect are many, many readers of the electronic
magazines "STREPORT" and "ZMAG" (thanks to Greg Lindahl!). With each
weekly issue, I end up drooling over the reviews of the various Public
Domain and Shareware applications available on the various Online
services such as GENIE.
I do not have access to these services do to my limited budget (if I
were to subscribe, I'm sure I would blow my budget many times over)!
The fact that I live in the frozen north of Canada doesn't help matters
either (these services are not particularly easy to get to from up here
unless one endorses one's paycheck over to the phone company in its
entirety).
Through the magic of interconnected networks I do (as does most of the
rest of the world outside of the continental USA) have access to various
servers/archives from which I can extract goodies. Unfortunately, the
vast majority of the reviewed and recommended PD goodies never see the
light of day outside the "for-pay" services.
If some gracious GENIE user had it in their heart to do the ATARI
community at large a great service then they might take it upon
themselves to periodically suck up the best from GENIE and input these
applications to the more worldly available servers/archives often
mentioned in this digest. The two servers I use personally are:
TERMINATOR and PANARTHEA. These are both excellent sources for a
non-IP user like me with EMAIL access and no anon-FTP abilities.
Thanks for the help!!!
----------------------
Has anybody seen or heard a recent update on the availibilty of
EMPIRE 3.0 for the ST.
Note: EMPIRE is a commerical product and not PD or shareware!
==== Buy it, don't steal it!!! Contact INTERSTEL.
The last this reader heard was an appetizing summary of what was to
be made availble in this new release. This was dated some time in
November 1988. As you can see this info is comming up on its one year
anniversary which really makes me wonder. I could call INTERSTEL but
then that issue of LONG distance phone calls presents itself (only to
reach some order-taker who doesn't know anything and takes ten minutes
of prime time long distance charges to tell you that they don't know
anything)!
Thanks again!
_ _
/ ) / / / ) "In theory, there is no difference
/ /-/ /_/ between theory and practice;
(_/ / / / | . In practice, there is"
Chuck Reid. Local 5992
Rm16.SLB.CCS.UWO.London.Canada / CCSCHR@UWOCC1.UWO.CAhcj@lzaz.ATT.COM (HC Johnson) (08/23/89)
> servers/archives from which I can extract goodies. Unfortunately, the > vast majority of the reviewed and recommended PD goodies never see the > light of day outside the "for-pay" services. > > If some gracious GENIE user had it in their heart to do the ATARI > community at large a great service then they might take it upon > themselves to periodically suck up the best from GENIE and input these > applications to the more worldly available servers/archives often > mentioned in this digest. The two servers I use personally are: > TERMINATOR and PANARTHEA. These are both excellent sources for a > non-IP user like me with EMAIL access and no anon-FTP abilities. > > Thanks for the help!!! > I think the GENIE agreement procludes this, as the Collection of pd on GENIE is copyright by GENIE. I would think that a GENIE customer could download a file and mail it to you, put posting to the net would be poor form, and maybe illegal. Howard C. Johnson ATT Bell Labs att!lzaz!hcj hcj@lzaz.att.com
covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (08/23/89)
In article <0619801174@uwovax.uwo.ca>, CCSCHR@UWOCC1.uwo.ca (Chuck Reid) writes: > > I do not have access to these services do to my limited budget (if I > were to subscribe, I'm sure I would blow my budget many times over)! > The fact that I live in the frozen north of Canada doesn't help matters > either (these services are not particularly easy to get to from up here > unless one endorses one's paycheck over to the phone company in its > entirety). > > If some gracious GENIE user had it in their heart to do the ATARI > community at large a great service then they might take it upon > themselves to periodically suck up the best from GENIE and input these > applications to the more worldly available servers/archives often > mentioned in this digest. The two servers I use personally are: > TERMINATOR and PANARTHEA. These are both excellent sources for a > non-IP user like me with EMAIL access and no anon-FTP abilities. > First, I am not sure if the USENET network would like being clogged with megabytes of pd pictures and such from GEnie. I susbscribe to GEnie and most of the files on GEnie are demos of new fonts for Calamus, GDOS, and PageStream, and pictures. Other files are archives of the various message bases. Sure there are pd games and other programs but they seldom (if ever) include source code. And I think that USENET's main purpose is to disseminate source code and not pd hacks. Furthermore, all of the stuff on GEnie can be had from various resellers of pd software. the magazine CURRENT NOTES contains an excellent library, updated monthly, of the latest ST, MAC, and IBM pd software that runs on the Atari ST. So, you can buy a complete 800K disk for less then $4.00 (US of course). Therefore, I see no need for filling the network with pd programs that are readily available either from GEnie, Compuserve or a pd disk reseller. Now, I would like to see more source code posted for the ST though!!! We can all use more sample code to read when otherwise bored!! On the other hand, some programs appear on USENET before anywhere else. I think the German AMCGDOS is one such program. So, some programs are probably welcome. I think that this is something that needs more discussion. Richard (Hungry for more C food!!) Covert
gl8f@astsun7.astro.Virginia.EDU (Greg Lindahl) (08/24/89)
In article <752@lzaz.ATT.COM> hcj@lzaz.ATT.COM (HC Johnson) writes: >> [ about someone getting good files from Genie and sending them to Usenet... ] >I think the GENIE agreement procludes this, as the Collection of pd on >GENIE is copyright by GENIE. A compilation copyright doesn't change copyrights on the files. So it is entirely legal to post *individual* files from Genie to the net, because those files are covered by whatever copyright their author put on them. What is illegal is making an archive only containing *exactly* what Genie has, by downloading from Genie. That would be a *compilation* of programs identical to Genie's compilation, and hence you would be using their intellectual effort of compiling their collection to compile yours. I'm not a lawyer, so I could be totally wrong. But this issue has been argued about several times before, here and elsewhere. -- greg ------ Greg Lindahl gl8f@virginia.edu I'm not the NRA.
saj@chinet.chi.il.us (Stephen Jacobs) (08/24/89)
In article <752@lzaz.ATT.COM>, hcj@lzaz.ATT.COM (HC Johnson) writes: > > > > If some gracious GENIE user had it in their heart to do the ATARI > > community at large a great service then they might take it upon > > themselves to periodically suck up the best from GENIE and input these > > applications to the more worldly available servers/archives often > > I think the GENIE agreement procludes this, as the Collection of pd on > GENIE is copyright by GENIE. > This was argued over a while ago when some very enthusiastic people at Compuserve attempted to enforce such rules. A copyright is a reward for creative work, or may be obtained from the creator of the work. Making a compilation (even passively) is creative enough, so the total collection on Compuserve or Genie is covered, and one may not republish 'The Genie PD collection' or such without permission. The copyright on the individual items, though, is unchanged by their inclusion in a collection. And it is most unlikely that anyone would be able (or inclined) to build a case around the statement 'This is the best software I've seen on Genie this month'. So if it was permissible to post a given item before it appeared on Genie or Compuserve it remains permissible to post it afterward. Nothing depends on where the particular copy that winds up posted came from. Any comments made by employees of Genie are probably protected by copyright, and thus not postable. A sequence of items matching the analogous sequence on Genie might well be considered an infringement of the collection copyright. Compuserve, at least, made it clear to everyone that this was what they really meant (After they ran into some people who stood up to the initial threats). Steve J.
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (08/25/89)
Chuck Reid had said: > If some gracious GENIE user had it in their heart to do the ATARI > community at large a great service then they might take it upon > themselves to periodically suck up the best from GENIE and input these > applications to the more worldly available servers/archives often > mentioned in this digest. ... The entire reason for Genie's being is to suck up your paycheck... thus they would look upon such an enterprise with disfavor... To everyone else, arguing the "compilation copyright" question, the point is moot... GEnie DOES claim a compilation copyright on their entire contents but this is not where they'll get you. Read the fine print of the GEnie customer agreement, and you'll find that they can kick you out if they don't like the way you part your hair, or if they find you "sucking up" their programs, or making fun of Neil Harris behind his back... anything. ... and they DO it... BobR
R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com (08/26/89)
BobR made the following comment... >To everyone else, arguing the "compilation copyright" question, the point >is moot... GEnie DOES claim a compilation copyright on their entire contents >but this is not where they'll get you. Read the fine print of the GEnie >customer agreement, and you'll find that they can kick you out if they don't >like the way you part your hair, or if they find you "sucking up" their >programs, or making fun of Neil Harris behind his back... anything. Hmm... sounds just like the "anything you download from BIX belongs to BIX, anthing you upload to BIX belongs to BIX." clause in the BIX agreement. At least BIX has now relaxed that (they permit uploads to have a redistribution clause attached, but guess what... When you say that whatever you uploaded to BIX may be redistributed by the downloader... you have to say that it came from BIX.). R. Tim Coslet Usenet: R_Tim_Coslet@cup.portal.com BIX: r.tim_coslet