fischer@netmbx.UUCP (Axel Fischer) (07/05/88)
Does anyone knows something about or does anyone works with the MT C-Shell of 'Beckemeyer Tools'?? Recently I've seen an article about it but it wasn't quiet informating. So I'm looking for someone who has experience with it. Does the Lattice C (metacomco) Compiler works correct with it ?? -Axel fischer@netmbx.UUCP ...!pyramid!tmpmbx!netmbx!fischer
wes@obie.UUCP (Barnacle Wes) (07/07/88)
In article <2041@netmbx.UUCP>, fischer@netmbx.UUCP (Axel Fischer) writes: > Does anyone knows something about or does anyone works with the MT C-Shell > of 'Beckemeyer Tools'?? Recently I've seen an article about it but it > wasn't quiet informating. So I'm looking for someone who has experience > with it. Does the Lattice C (metacomco) Compiler works correct with it ?? I have the MT C-Shell and the Tools from BDT. The current versions of both work fine, it is a very good environment for working on the ST. The command-line editing is really very good - I got spoiled by VMS, and the BDT C-Shell is just as good. The Software Tools Dave and gang sell all work as advertised - I've not had a problem with one of them yet. I don't know if the Lattice C compiler works with it or not, but I doubt it. The Lattice compiler barely works run from the desktop, and does not use the standard handles for console I/O for some silly reason. This means you can't properly redirect stdin and stdout (or stderr) from the shell. This seems to be a mistake in Lattice C, since MWC and assembler programs that use the standard handles (0 and 1) work just fine. -- {hpda, uwmcsd1}!sp7040!obie!wes "Happiness lies in being priviledged to work hard for long hours in doing whatever you think is worth doing." -- Robert A. Heinlein --
bissiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Moja Fritzah) (04/22/89)
Yesterday, i posted an article seeking a fix for MT C-Shell's multi-user mode in version 1.10. Since i have not received a response, can i assume there is no fix? Am i really going to have to wait until BDT sends me the update which claims to contain the fix? This is technically not a flame, just that i would like to get what i paid for. Is that too much to ask? -kevin
bob@cmpfen.UUCP (Bob Breum) (04/24/89)
In article <1694@blake.acs.washington.edu> bissiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Moja Fritzah) writes: >The only problem with the shell is that it doesn't allow your >friends and co-worker to log on. What happens when you go into >multi-user mode: the program thinks that you, the local user, is >trying to call in on the rs232.... your modem squeaks and your drive >light flashes relentlessly. Ok... there must be a solution. I've used MT C-Shell since it was first introduced. Beckemeyer does a fine job of supporting his products. If he has a fault, it's probably assuming too much knowledge/experience on the part of his customers. When I first started using MT C-Shell, I had never been exposed to either UNIX or the C-Shell, so I had quite a learning curve to conquer. I believe what is actually happening in the situation you describe is that your Hayes-compatible modem is sending status messages to your getty, which in turn is replying with login prompts, ad nauseum, generating all sorts of disk activity and burning up some CPU time. The fix on my system when I encountered this was to mute the modem; i.e., as part of your inittab, send the appropriate strings to the modem to tell it to _shut up_, sending absolutely no status/error messages back to you, either verbose or numeric. This will calm your getty so that it will wait patiently in the bg until your friend hits return on a remote terminal. >for the update to show up. In the meantime... we can send a command >to the modem (as David suggests) and turn echo off. Ah! No more >squeaks and my drive takes a rest ( only disadvantage is that you no longer >see what you type .. ). A friend calls remote and gets >"no carrier". Subsequent calls to BDT return busy, modem noise, No carrier? Is your modem set to auto-answer? You can put that into the inittab command string, also. >Also... any fixes for writing an alias on the command line that doesn't >crash the system would be helpful too. Aliases work fine from >login.sh, but are unruly and capricious when created from command line. I have never had a problem entering aliases from the command line. Perhaps an example of your problem? P.S. When you're testing this kind of fix, you'll want to just type the strings directly to your modem until you're satisfied you have the right combination, then add the required line to your inittab. -- Computer Fenestrations Bob Breum Post Office Box 151 {uiucuxc|hoptoad|petsd|ucf-cs}!peora!cmpfen!bob Lake Monroe, FL 32747 USA +1 407 322-3222 "C is the new BASIC"
bob@cmpfen.UUCP (Bob Breum) (04/24/89)
In article <1710@blake.acs.washington.edu> bissiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Moja Fritzah) writes: >Yesterday, i posted an article seeking a fix for >MT C-Shell's multi-user mode in version 1.10. > >Since i have not received a response, >can i assume there is no fix? > >Am i really going to have to wait until BDT sends me the >update which claims to contain the fix? > >This is technically not a flame, just that i would like >to get what i paid for. Is that too much to ask? This is a flame: Patience, my lad, patience. My site just received your original article today. If you want help from your fellow users, you are much more apt to receive it if you ask nicely, not if you fuss at us because we haven't responded as soon as you typed "send." Some of us have other demands on our time besides reading the net news, and may think twice before taking the time to assist a belligerent poster. In spite of your incessant fussing, however, I will be happy to try to help you get your MT C-Shell functional. You may contact me by E-Mail or by voice if you experience further problems and cannot get them resolved otherwise. Good luck! -- Computer Fenestrations Bob Breum Post Office Box 151 {uiucuxc|hoptoad|petsd|ucf-cs}!peora!cmpfen!bob Lake Monroe, FL 32747 USA +1 407 322-3222 "C is the new BASIC"
bissiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Moja Fritzah) (04/24/89)
My apology to netters.
I received mail indicating that my request for a bug fix to
BDT's MT C-Shell inside of a day was out of proportion.....
particularly since it takes up to several days for a given
article to make its way around the net. I foolishly
thought that posted articles reached their sites within
a few hours. I stand corrected. The gentleman who wrote
to me was "irate".... he said that the answer to my question
was not an easy one.... and that i might have to wait 10 or more
days... that the best thing to do is to send in my "new" disk
and "pay" (his word) for an upgrade.
I have another question or two... and this doesn't need to
be answered for several days or weeks if needs dictate:
1). Why is it not incumbent upon software and hardware vendors
to inform at least their dealers of updates? Surely a
15 cent postcard is not too much to ask.
There is no excuse for releasing a product with blatant bugs.
Particulary when the bugs are not announced in the package.
In most industries, this violation is called
"false advertizing".
At the end of every UNIX manual entry is a heading called BUGS.
This indicates the responsibility and integrity of the programmer(s).
If i sound bitter and angry, i am getting across.
Inside of a few weeks, i bought a drive "falsely advertized",
and two pieces of software "falsely advertized".
-kevin
bob@cmpfen.UUCP (Bob Breum) (04/24/89)
In article <1731@blake.acs.washington.edu> bissiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Moja Fritzah) writes: >My apology to netters. > >I received mail indicating that my request for a bug fix to >BDT's MT C-Shell inside of a day was out of proportion..... Apology accepted. > There is no excuse for releasing a product with blatant bugs. > Particulary when the bugs are not announced in the package. > In most industries, this violation is called > "false advertizing". MT C-Shell, version 1.10, works just fine. I used it for a long time before 1.20 was released. It's not false advertising. What you observed was not a bug, just a case of improper installation. Admittedly, the documentation is inadequate. >At the end of every UNIX manual entry is a heading called BUGS. >This indicates the responsibility and integrity of the programmer(s). If you buy Beckemeyer's online manual, it also has the BUGS headings. Disclaimer: I am not, nor have I ever been, associated with Beckemeyer. I have been, for the most part, a satisfied user of his software since he introduced MT C-Shell for the Atari ST. I can recommend any of his ST titles without reservation, with the exceptions of VSH Manager (too slow) and AnsiTerm (licensed, not written by David Beckemeyer, it was released with many bugs). -- Computer Fenestrations Bob Breum Post Office Box 151 {uiucuxc|hoptoad|petsd|ucf-cs}!peora!cmpfen!bob Lake Monroe, FL 32747 USA +1 407 322-3222 "C is the new BASIC"
david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) (04/26/89)
In article <198@cmpfen.UUCP> bob@cmpfen.UUCP (Bob Breum) writes: > ... I can recommend any of his [Beckemeyer Development] >ST titles without reservation, with the exceptions of VSH Manager (too >slow) [and AnsiTerm] ... I realize that VSH is slow. It has to be a totally legal GEM program for compatibility with other GEM software; it can't cheat to get the speed. I hope soon to announce that TurboST is fully compatibile with VSH. We're testing it now and TurboST is FAST. VSH is nice when used with TurboST. VSH still requires memory though and is best if you have more than 1 meg. >-- >Computer Fenestrations Bob Breum -- David Beckemeyer (david@bdt.UUCP) | "Adios amigos. And, as they say when Beckemeyer Development Tools | the boys are scratching the bad ones, 478 Santa Clara Ave. Oakland, CA 94610 | 'Stay a long time, Cowboy!'" UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax}!unisoft!bdt!david | - Jo Mora
BUGGS@cup.portal.com (William Edward JuneJr) (04/28/89)
I saw an add for Turbo POS or something like that. Can ya tell us what this is? Is it a [P]oint [O]f [S]ale type deal? Ed June Fido node 1:133/403
bissiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Moja Fritzah) (05/16/89)
(Self quote)
" While I've had to pinion my person to near permanent stifle
lest BDT avoid me altogether, I could no longer contain my anger
and frustration with respect to what I consider to be criminal.
It is not a risible matter, this conception, nor is the
offense itself. And therefore, I offer this apology. Not an
apology of regret for remonstrations in past posts, rather,
an apology in the classical sense: an argument for defense. "
And now, in the wake of a series of e-mailings to/from Mr.Beckmeyer,
I eat my own words. This is yet another apology, NOT in the classical
sense, but in contrary, an expression of sincere self-effacement.
I sent a copy of my most recent posting to Mr. Beckemeyer BEFORE
putting it on the net, offering terms for rebuttal. Mr. Beckemeyer
replied the following day, though no sooner than moments before
receiving his e-mail, I had posted the letter to the nets.
Mr. Beckemeyer was rightfully disturbed by the contents of my article and
was hurt by my lack of discretion.
It is now clear that there were patent communication
problems between us. My 'old' version of MT C-Shell took
close to 20 days to arrive at his desk. E-mail to him was
directed to a sub domain for a few weeks (though the mailer
daemon never acknowledged this, so neither of us knew of
the problem ). Therefore, during the interim, whilst i fretted
over the "apparent" irresponsibility of BDT, Mr. Beckemeyer never
really knew I was trying to contact him. WHen the disk finally
arrived at BDT headquarters, the secretary noted that the $10
update fee was not included, and therefore sent me a letter saying
they needed the $10.00 before they could send me the disk.
Unfortunately, the US mail failed us once again, and I never
received the note. To make matters more complicated, David himself
did not plan on charging me in the first place! As I understand it,
there was an in-house mixup and the secretary never was clear on the
fact that i was supposed to be sent the disk for free. Ironically,
I was never informed there was an update fee in the first place, David
was simply being generous.
Recent communication with Mr. Beckmeyer has been profitable. Both
sent each other an explanation of events and attitudes. Given the
public pillory to which I subjected BDT in my last post, I
certainly did not deserve the kindness tendered by Mr. Beckemeyer
in his most recent letter to me (fortunately, the e-mail is
working again). The traducing of his character was categorically
uncondign, and without question, beyond reason.
In retrospect, I have learned an important lesson that I will
carry with me in perpetuity. I extend a sincere apology for
the damage I have caused Mr. Beckemeyer's reputation.
The results of his hard work have proven many fine products
for the ST and are used extensively throughout the Atari
community. I urge others interested in BDT software to disregard
any and all previous posts of mine. My actions have disgraced
the community and in no way represent the feelings and attitudes
of the Atari net at large. Truly, i am the nefarious character,
not Mr. Beckemeyer.
-kevin callahan
bissiri@blake.acs.washington.edu
eezprandolin@qut.edu.au (09/07/89)
In article <128@bdt.UUCP>, david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) writes: > In article <1081@philmds.UUCP> leo@philmds.UUCP (Leo de Wit) writes: >>In article <123950@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >>|and the ST/Mac/PC user who is saying : >>| "You know, if only I had a multitasking OS, this is what >>| I could accomplish." >> >>Compiles in the background, a file being printed, while reading netnews ... >>Wow! >> >> Leo. > > OK, I do all the above on a Mega ST-4 with MT C-Shell, Mark Williams C, > the MT C-Shell print spooler, and the Bootstrap News software with > MT C-Shell UUCP. Using the visual shell (VSH), I can even do it > with GEM windows. Admitedly, using VSH is slower and on the > rather small ST screen, it isn't as nice as a 19" monitor. But it's > handy to be able to have, for instance, a kermit login session to > a Unix box in one window, with a local compile shell in another, and > another local (inactive) shell in case I want to type another command > (e.g. to check out a local file). It all works. It's not a Cray, but > you can do it, today, with software and hardware that exists and that > you can really buy for an Atari ST. > > A plug you say? Well maybe - but it's also true. > Does it work with all programs (other compilers etc )? How much does it cost ? Is it distributed in oz? If not then do you take VISA :-) This is a great plug opportunity !!! BOB
david@bdt.UUCP (David Beckemeyer) (09/09/89)
Warnin: Mostly commercial product info follows. Hit 'n' now if you don't like this sort of thing. (I'll be brief). In article <4999@qut.edu.au> eezprandolin@qut.edu.au writes: [ regarding MT C-Shell and the visual shell (VSH) ] >Does it work with all programs (other compilers etc )? Well no, it doesn't work with *All* programs. It works with *most* programs. It works with other compilers, e.g. Alcyon (DRI/Atari), Lattice, Megamax. Most well-behaved programs run fine. Even some not so well-behaved programs run fine. The programs that have trouble are mostly those that hack into the OS or make a lot of assumtions about their environment (e.g. memory layout assumptions [ sequential contingous malloc etc.]). We are always trying to work with software suppliers to ensure compatibility with RTX/MTC. >How much does it cost ? $129.95 US Retail for the base 2-user system. $34.95 US Retail for VSH >Is it distributed in oz? I don't think so. >If not then do you take VISA :-) Yes. Call USA (415) 452-1129 to place your order today. > >This is a great plug opportunity !!! Yes thanks. I hope I didn't abuse it. > > BOB -- David Beckemeyer (david@bdt.UUCP) | "I'll forgive you Dad... If you have Beckemeyer Development Tools | a breath mint." 478 Santa Clara Ave. Oakland, CA 94610 | Bart - "The Simpsons" UUCP: {uunet,ucbvax}!unisoft!bdt!david |