4224_5132@uwovax.uwo.ca (Andrew Semple) (10/23/89)
This letter was a response to a fellow with whom I discussed Atari's (mis)fortunes. I think I'll post it. I, as anyone, will admit that Atari has had some lame ducks that stayed on the development shelf gathering dust. But based on the prior three years track record, I am willing to believe that Atari R&D has their act together. I remember when the 520 was announced. I had my reservations, that computer meant that Atari had to drop an entire train of thought. No more 8 bit. Just 16 bit. I was amazed when it came out. Then the 1040. Then the Mega line, a real jump. Then the (cheap, good quality) laser printer. Then the transputer (an AFFORDABLE parrallel prcessing unit for END-USER's). Porfolio and STacy following soon. Now there is a Transputer workstation. It goes on and on, all the while, spurring companies like Wordperfect Corp. and others to support it. Atari has had no easy task over the last three to five years, I think they have done pretty well. It is time we get over the stigma of Atari being a 'neophyte' company. They seem to be holding their own, progressing. Doesn't every company have it's own white elephants? Don't you know anyone who owns an Apple Lisa?........ Regards, -------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Semple ads@uwovax.uwo.ca 2nd Year Applied Math/Computer Science Andrew.Semple@uwovax.uwo.ca The University of Western Ontario Semple@uwovax.BITNET London, Ontario Canada
JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Jouni Alkio) (10/24/89)
>In article <3970.2542f26a@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 4224_5132@uwovax.uwo.ca (Andrew Semple) writes: ---Part of the text deleted--- > Atari has had no easy task over the last three > to five years, I think they have done pretty well. It is time we get over > the stigma of Atari being a 'neophyte' company. They seem to be holding their > own, progressing. Doesn't every company have it's own white elephants? > Don't you know anyone who owns an Apple Lisa?........ That's right! One important point to think about when blaming Atari for being slow is: It is much more difficult to design a computer which costs, say 1000$, than one that costs 2000$ (if both of these are about as effective and are using the same CPU). Atari can't let out a computer which still is too expensive to be "Power without the Price". And, as Andrew already wrote, Atari HAS brought very varied and original products lately. For example, the portfolio is said to be the smallest PC in the world. (I must be sounding like an Atari salesman...) Jouni Alkio
covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (10/24/89)
In article <3970.2542f26a@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 4224_5132@uwovax.uwo.ca (Andrew Semple) writes: > > This letter was a response to a fellow with whom I discussed Atari's > (mis)fortunes. I think I'll post it. > > I, as anyone, will admit that Atari has had some lame ducks that stayed > on the development shelf gathering dust. But based on the prior three years > track record, I am willing to believe that Atari R&D has their act together. So, just *WHAT* has ATARI released in the last 3 years?? First, they came out with the Mega ST line. The Megas could have been a great chance for Atari to increase color graphics and/or sound (ala the VaporWare 1040STE). the Mega could have been a chance for Atari to provide a wide open computer with plenty of open card slots. The Mega could have been a chance for Atari to fix some hardware problems (like why didn't Atari add a DMA port buffer so that you can drive 2 external harddrives AND the SLM804 laser printer?). The Mega could have been expandable from 2 megabytes to 4 megabytes. The BLitter chip could have had ALL of the features that were originally promised 3 years ago. Needless to say, none of these things were done, and the Mega was promised to be a "Business" computer, so they should have been done. Cost would be a minor consideration when buying a Top Of The Line computer. > I remember when the 520 was announced. I had my reservations, that computer > meant that Atari had to drop an entire train of thought. No more 8 bit. > Just 16 bit. I was amazed when it came out. Then the 1040. Then the Mega > line, a real jump. The Mega was a great improvement over the other STs. I even bought one. But, the Mega is NOT a great computer. It lacks any real new features except a detached keyboard, a Blitter chip and a TOS to control the Blitter chip. > Then the (cheap, good quality) laser printer. Yes, the SLM804 is a CHEAP laser printer. And that is it only marketable feature. NOTHING has been done by Atari to support the SLM804 in over 18 months. No new Diablo 630 Emulator, no Epson Emulator, no new GDOS driver, no new anything. And don't bring up UltraScript because that wasn't written by Atari. US was written by Imagen, bless them!! Just try using that SLM804 on the Gadget's By Small SPECTRE 128/GCR. The best you can get is 144 dpi printing w/o resorting to UltraScript. so much for the Quality and Versatility of the SLM804. And now that HP has released the LaserJet IIP for $995.00, I just wonder how many SLM804s will be sold. I know that I would buy the HP printer before buying the SLM804 if I was to buy a laser printer today. > Then > the transputer (an AFFORDABLE parrallel prcessing unit for END-USER's). Well, I don't know what continent you live BUT the ATW is NOT being sold here in the US. I do understand that Canadians and English folks can buy it. So, maybe the ATW is not VaporWare, though the US hasn't seen it yet. > Porfolio and STacy following soon. Now there is a Transputer workstation. right, there is Portfolio. But, Portfolio was designed and built by DIP, a British company. Atari is JUST amrketing it. Just like Atari markets that expensive line of calculators! Boy, I will bet you are proud of those calculator also, hih? And just *WHERE* is the STacy?? Is it selling in Europe?? Is it selling in Canada?? I *KNOW* that you can't buy the STacy in the United States. So, as far as I am concerned the STacy is just more Tramiel VaporWare. > It goes on and on, all the while, spurring companies like Wordperfect Corp. > and others to support it. Ah, Word Perfect. Did you know that WP dropped development of the ST version of WP because of non-existant support from Atari?? Did you know that the Atari FANASTIC CHEAP SLM804 laser printer in NOT a supported printer by WP?? that's because of all of the bugs in the SLM804's Diablo Emulator, which of course hasn't been updated in over 18 months!! So, WP dropped the SLM804. And it looks like Atari has also!! As far as other companies supporting the Atari: where are Microsoft, Lotus, WORDSTAR, Dbase?? where are all of the IBM software companies?? If the ST was a viable market those companies, and more, would be fighting to grab a piece of the ST market. Nope, none of them are marketing ANY ST software. That speaks volumes for the US ST market!! > Atari has had no easy task over the last three > to five years, I think they have done pretty well. It is time we get over > the stigma of Atari being a 'neophyte' company. They seem to be holding their > own, progressing. Doesn't every company have it's own white elephants? > Don't you know anyone who owns an Apple Lisa?........ No, but I know of the Mac SE, the Mac SE/30, the Mac II, the Mac IIx, the Mac IIcx, the Mac IIci, etc. and then all of the Compaqs, and IBM pcs. Etc. all of which are first class computers. > > Regards, > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > Andrew Semple ads@uwovax.uwo.ca > 2nd Year Applied Math/Computer Science Andrew.Semple@uwovax.uwo.ca ^^^^^^^^ > The University of Western Ontario Semple@uwovax.BITNET > London, Ontario > Canada Oh, that explains it!! An experienced computer engineer with YEARS of real world experience!! And andrew lives in Canada, so he gets new Atari stuff before us lower Americans!! Well, I am sorry to continue flaming Atari BUT messages like the above from folks just get my goat!! I like my STs better than any other, but I refuse to follow the Atari party line any longer. I will keep my ST for years, but will NEVER buy another Atari product!! **************** GOOD NEWS SECTION *************************** As part of my continuing efforts, I would like to talk about the the game OIDS. I don't always just respond to USENET messages, I sometimes play games. And OIDS is an old game that I still find addicting!! You fly a small spaceship blasting enemies on the ground and in space. Some enemies fly at you and fire at you. Some enemies are stationary. You must resuce little men from jails by blasting the jails but not them!! You get an extra spaceship for each 8 men that you rescue. Your spaceship is very mobile, and the play is fast and furious!! And you can design your own OIDS galaxies with the builtin editor. All in all a great little game. I like it! ***************************************************************** richard covert
JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Jouni Alkio) (10/25/89)
In article <466bd5b7.14a1f@force.UUCP>, covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: > > So, just *WHAT* has ATARI released in the last 3 years?? > First, they came out with the Mega ST line. The Megas could have been a great > chance for Atari to increase color graphics and/or sound (ala the VaporWare > 1040STE). the Mega could have been a chance for Atari to provide a wide open > computer with plenty of open card slots. The Mega could have been a chance for Atari > to fix some hardware problems (like why didn't Atari add a DMA port buffer so that > you can drive 2 external harddrives AND the SLM804 laser printer?). The Mega > could have been expandable from 2 megabytes to 4 megabytes. The BLitter chip could > have had ALL of the features that were originally promised 3 years ago. Needless > to say, none of these things were done, and the Mega was promised to be a > "Business" computer, so they should have been done. Cost would be a minor > consideration when buying a Top Of The Line computer. I think that the Mega ST's are the worst ataris in price/performace this far. BUT, I have understood that Atari isn't going to make any totally non-affordable business stuff. "Power without the Price". I'm judging a computer's value as a private user. (You can represent the business world, of course.) And why hasn't Apple made any Top Of The Line (and Top Expensive) super- computers for the bosses' desks? > > As far as other companies supporting the Atari: where are Microsoft, Lotus, > WORDSTAR, Dbase?? where are all of the IBM software companies?? If the > ST was a viable market those companies, and more, would be fighting to > grab a piece of the ST market. Nope, none of them are marketing ANY ST > software. That speaks volumes for the US ST market!! I cuold as well name several companies supporting ONLY the ST! They don't make any programs for IBM:s! > >> >> Regards, >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> Andrew Semple ads@uwovax.uwo.ca >> 2nd Year Applied Math/Computer Science Andrew.Semple@uwovax.uwo.ca > ^^^^^^^^ >> The University of Western Ontario Semple@uwovax.BITNET >> London, Ontario >> Canada > > Oh, that explains it!! An experienced computer engineer with YEARS of > real world experience!! And andrew lives in Canada, so he gets new Atari > stuff before us lower Americans!! What do you mean by that real world experience? Can you really know everything about a person's experience just seeing how long he has studied? And this is a word-wide system, after all. Jouni Alkio
grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Graham Thomas) (10/25/89)
From article <466bd5b7.14a1f@force.UUCP>, by covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert): > > Yes, the SLM804 is a CHEAP laser printer. And that is it only marketable > feature. NOTHING has been done by Atari to support the SLM804 in over 18 > months. No new Diablo 630 Emulator, no Epson Emulator, no new GDOS driver, > no new anything. And don't bring up UltraScript because that wasn't written > by Atari. US was written by Imagen, bless them!! > I agree that Atari should have done more to support the SLM804. We still can't get the Diablo emulator to install the 'bold italic' typestyle for the main ATTP10LS font. It's not for want of trying, but maybe it's for want of documentation. There again, maybe not. We installed the WordPerfect printer driver for that font (see below) and configured the Diablo emulator just like the WP docs told us to, and we still can't get bold italics. There is now an Epson emulator available in the UK (marketed by Atari UK who of course sat on it for months then released it with an obsolete First Word Plus printer driver with comments in German!), and it's not bad, though far from perfect. I don't have time to create a proper condensed font for it, for instance, and the default font set doesn't contain one. Still, I'm sure some kind soul in PD-land will put together a good font set soon. > Ah, Word Perfect. Did you know that WP dropped development of the ST version > of WP because of non-existant support from Atari?? Did you know that the > Atari FANASTIC CHEAP SLM804 laser printer in NOT a supported printer by > WP?? that's because of all of the bugs in the SLM804's Diablo Emulator, > which of course hasn't been updated in over 18 months!! So, WP dropped > the SLM804. And it looks like Atari has also!! > Hold on Richard - that's not quite correct. A month ago I might have agreed with most of what you said, but we just received (had to hassle for it, mind) the August 1989 version of WordPerfect ST, and it has TWO drivers for the SLM804/Diablo and one for the SLM804/Epson emulator (called by its original German name, Laserbrain, in the WP printer definition file). The new readme file also states that WP Corp are continuing to work on WP ST, and that users should send in requests for new features. Don't get too excited - I believe there's only one programmer assigned to the ST (his name is James Marshburn, according to Larry Rymal, who writes on this net and probably has more details) and I don't expect to see WordPerfect v5 for the ST. However, WP ST is not dead yet. Apologies if I've been talking about some things that are not available in all places where STs are sold. International software distribution is one of the great mysteries of life. Despite the fact that I've said some rude things about Atari UK recently, I still like using the ST. It's just a shame that it's never really lived up to its potential - development has been just too little, too late. Graham -- Graham Thomas, SPRU, Mantell Building, U of Sussex, Brighton, BN1 9RF, UK JANET: grahamt@uk.ac.sussex.syma EARN/BITNET: grahamt@syma.sussex.ac.uk ARPA: grahamt%syma.sussex.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk UUCP: grahamt@syma.uucp Phone: +44 273 686758
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (10/25/89)
In article <466bd5b7.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: >And now that HP has released the LaserJet IIP for $995.00, I just wonder >how many SLM804s will be sold. I know that I would buy the HP printer before >buying the SLM804 if I was to buy a laser printer today. Uh, just a small nit. I believe the list-price on the LJ IIP is $1495, though I don't doubt the "street price" could approach your figure. -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | Steve Rehrauer, rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Flee, lest we be trod upon!" | The Apollo Computer Division of H.P.
Henry_Burdett_Messenger@cup.portal.com (10/26/89)
Richard. Sorry to use net bandwidth for this, but I'm certain there
are others that agree with me...
Sell your ST. Please. You clearly didn't know what you were buying
when you bought it, and you clearly are displeased. Go buy a Macintosh
or a PCclone. You will be happier, and I know the net will be happier.
Or just stop complaining about every little problem you run into.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Henry B. Messenger henry_burdett_messenger@cup.portal.com
Digital Equipment Corporation isn't responsible for anything I say on Usenet
"Hello, I know that you've been feeling tired.
I bring you love and deeper understanding." covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) (10/26/89)
In article <467036de.20b6d@apollo.HP.COM>, rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) writes: > In article <466bd5b7.14a1f@force.UUCP> covertr@force.UUCP (Richard E. Covert) writes: > >And now that HP has released the LaserJet IIP for $995.00, I just wonder > >how many SLM804s will be sold. I know that I would buy the HP printer before > >buying the SLM804 if I was to buy a laser printer today. > > Uh, just a small nit. I believe the list-price on the LJ IIP is $1495, though > I don't doubt the "street price" could approach your figure. > > -- > >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | Steve Rehrauer, rehrauer@apollo.hp.com > "Flee, lest we be trod upon!" | The Apollo Computer Division of H.P. Uh, just a small. I believe the list-price on the SLM804 is $1995, though I don't doubt the "street price" could approach your figure. he he Anyway, I paid $995 for my SLM804 when it was introduced in early 1988. My dealer got a large order of them in and couldn't sell them at the list price of $1995, so he had a close out at $995. MOst other dealers were selling SLM804s for about $1495 in 1988. I don't know what the "street price" of a SLM804 is now, but my dealer is selling them (or trying to anyway) bundled with the base package of UltraScript for $1495. He will deal down to around $1300 I am told. and I have seen ads in newspapers here in Phoenix for the HP LJ IIP for $995. unbelievable! Rich Covert