JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Varsinainen sikapossu kuoli t{n{{n.) (10/21/89)
In article <28320@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU>, stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Stephen Whitney) writes: > > Sure, Mac IIx, cx, and ci machines are nice. They're also _really_ expensive. > If the TT truly has VME slots (yes, they _are_ a standard, even at 16 data bits)and SIMM-based memory along with 512k of ROM space, it will be quite user > expandable. We'll be able to plug in new and better graphics cards, run > UNIX with hardware memory protection (built into the '030), and expand our > memory quite effectively. With the SCSI port, we'll have cheap hard disks, and > the built-in video modes are nothing to sneeze at. > I think exactly the same way! To me, it is very significant that Atari can really make computers affordable. For example, a ST costs less than a third of the price of a MAC, at least here in Finland - and THAT is something to think about... Where does all the extra money the Apple takes go? You can even emulate a MAC with a ST faster than a real MAC. I hope (and believe) that the TT will be the first truly affordable machine for Unix-usage. It takes no effort to make a good but expensive computer. It is much more difficult to make a computer that is as good but many times cheaper! I think that's one of the reasons for why there still are some atarians on this planet.... Jouni
ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) (10/21/89)
In article <1035@cc.helsinki.fi> JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Varsinainen sikapossu kuoli t{n{{n.) writes: >In article <28320@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU>, stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Stephen Whitney) writes: >> > >a MAC with a ST faster than a real MAC. I hope (and believe) that the TT >will be the first truly affordable machine for Unix-usage. > >difficult to make a computer that is as good but many times cheaper! >on this planet.... > > Jouni I originally simply posted an ad I saw for a 25Mhz 386 box, 8 expansion slots, VGA color high res monitor and card, 60 meg 1:1 hard drive, floppy, keyboard, 1meg RAM for $1995.00 ... and correct me if I am wrong, there are several flavors of UNIX to choose from that should indeed run on this machine. I don't understand why people such as Jouni say: " first truly affordable machine for Unix-usage; ... as good but MANY TIMES cheaper..". Does Jouni know something that I don't know? Has ATARI announced a price for the TT? Is it MANY TIMES cheaper than $1995.00 ? WIll ATARI support their Unix SYS V as well as they have supported TOS? Hmm...I guess only ATARI can tell us for sure, and since their lips are sealed, it's hard to read them.... -kevin ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu
JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (INFINITY EVERYWHERE) (10/22/89)
In article <4145@blake.acs.washington.edu>, ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) writes: > In article <1035@cc.helsinki.fi> JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (Varsinainen sikapossu kuoli t{n{{n.) writes: >>In article <28320@shemp.CS.UCLA.EDU>, stephen@oahu.cs.ucla.edu (Stephen Whitney) writes: >>> >> >>a MAC with a ST faster than a real MAC. I hope (and believe) that the TT >>will be the first truly affordable machine for Unix-usage. >> >>difficult to make a computer that is as good but many times cheaper! >>on this planet.... >> >> Jouni This article (which includes that text) wasn't really intended to be sent. It was the first time I used MICROEMACS-editor, so I must have made something wrong when the message really did somehow get into rnews. I wrote a new one and it is the valid one. > > > I originally simply posted an ad I saw for a 25Mhz 386 box, 8 expansion > slots, VGA color high res monitor and card, 60 meg 1:1 hard drive, floppy, > keyboard, 1meg RAM for $1995.00 ... and correct me if I am wrong, > there are several flavors of UNIX to choose from that should indeed > run on this machine. I don't understand why people such as Jouni > say: " first truly affordable machine for Unix-usage; ... as good > but MANY TIMES cheaper..". Does Jouni know something that I don't > know? Has ATARI announced a price for the TT? Is it MANY TIMES cheaper > than $1995.00 ? WIll ATARI support their Unix SYS V as well as they > have supported TOS? Hmm...I guess only ATARI can tell us for sure, > and since their lips are sealed, it's hard to read them.... > The price comparisons I've are between the Apples and Ataris because they are very much same technology. I admit that such a 386-system is quite cheap. Atari HAS announced a price for the TT in Germany: 6500DM for a TT with a 30MB hard-disk and a monochrome VGA-monitor and 2 MB RAM. I have also read that Atari would announce a TTP in England - cost: 1300 pounds with 1280x960monitor and a 60MEG hard-disk. (This is not as sure as the German information, though.) I have also read that atari would announce a version of Unix for about 300 dollars. I know that Atari supports Europe more than the US. I can imagine why... Jouni -not flaming, only telling facts- Alkio
mboen@nixpbe.UUCP (Martin Boening) (10/23/89)
ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu (Enartloc Nhoj) writes: [...] >I originally simply posted an ad I saw for a 25Mhz 386 box, 8 expansion >slots, VGA color high res monitor and card, 60 meg 1:1 hard drive, floppy, >keyboard, 1meg RAM for $1995.00 ... and correct me if I am wrong, >there are several flavors of UNIX to choose from that should indeed >run on this machine. I don't understand why people such as Jouni >say: " first truly affordable machine for Unix-usage; ... as good >but MANY TIMES cheaper..". Does Jouni know something that I don't >know? [...] OK, so a 25 MHz 386 box comes at $1995.00 (in the US, i guess). But it is probably delivered with MS-DOS, for that price. Is it MS-DOS 3.x or MS-DOS 4.x? Most certainly it won't be OS/2. And even more certainly it won't be a UNIX system. So the question arises: How much is SCO Xenix in the US? How much do you have to pay for SCO UNIX (who wants SCO Xenix if they can have SCO Unix). Does Microport still sell and how much do you have to pay for that? And how about those Unixes as far as X-Windows is concerned? However, since the prices for the TT with Unix and X-Windows isn't known yet, how can you truly compare? Conclusion: If you need POWER WITHOUT THE PRICE NOW, look for a 386 box but don't expect to get a cheap Unix system out of it. If you need POWER regardless of price then go for a workstation typt thing with Unix and maybe X-Windows. If you can wait, then you might as well see what a TT with Unix and X windows costs and what performance it yields. Martin P.S.: Unix is a registered trademark of AT&T P.P.S.: All of the above are MY opinions. -- Email: in the USA -> ...!uunet!philabs!linus!nixbur!mboening.pad outside USA -> {...!mcvax}!unido!nixpbe!mboening.pad Paper Mail: Martin Boening, Nixdorf Computer AG, DS-CC22, Pontanusstr. 55, 4790 Paderborn, W.-Germany
rehrauer@apollo.HP.COM (Steve Rehrauer) (10/24/89)
[ Thanks to the person within Atari who answered some of my rather hostile questions some weeks back. I meant to thank you then, but I was busy, our network's newsfeed has been undergoing brain-surgery recently, etc, etc -- so your message expired here before I could. Sigh. I appreciated that you took the time to respond. ] In article <1060@cc.helsinki.fi> JALKIO@cc.helsinki.fi (INFINITY EVERYWHERE) writes: >Atari HAS announced a price for the TT in Germany: 6500DM for a TT with >a 30MB hard-disk and a monochrome VGA-monitor and 2 MB RAM. > >I have also read that Atari would announce a TTP in England - cost: 1300 >pounds with 1280x960monitor and a 60MEG hard-disk. (This is not as sure >as the German information, though.) > >I have also read that atari would announce a version of Unix for about >300 dollars. I've read many things that Atari "will do" or "has done". In early 1986 Jack Tramiel was quoted in an interview with START magazine as saying that the "68020-based TT" would be shipping "within a few months". I don't believe he suggested a price. Also in early 1986, the Atari CD-ROM drive was announced, although they did leave themselves the out that it wouldn't be shipped until it could be "priced appropriately". The Atari laser printer was originally to have been (rumor said, although I believe some of those rumors originated within Atari) an "under $1,000 (list-price) printer". Believe it, not when you can merely see and touch it, but when your order for one is filled and you *OWN* it. Until then, it's all merely interesting hearsay -- not only the "What" and "When", but also the "If" and "How Much". >I know that Atari supports Europe more than the US. I can imagine why... Why? Explain, please. Presumably Europe is more tolerant of vapor? -- >>"Aaiiyeeee! Death from above!"<< | Steve Rehrauer, rehrauer@apollo.hp.com "Flee, lest we be trod upon!" | The Apollo Computer Division of H.P.
mi@chyde.uwasa.fi (Matti Inkinen HKJ) (10/24/89)
Many writers have again written and argued about different machines. I would say that computer is a machine, not a toy or god. You seem to take this branch very religiously, believing to Atari TT or MacIntosh or "Industry standard" or whatever. Only comment from me is that every machine or operating system that breaks monopolies are supportable. If Atari TT runs unix, msdos and MacIntosh, I'll buy it any day. I don't have Atari, yet. It would be reasonable to use best machine to each purpose, not machine I "believe" in. It's quite useless to write articless like yours. Post system is allready overloaded and we don't need this kind of garbage to fill our machines. PS. These opinions are my own. -- *************************************************************** * Matti Inkinen e-mail mi@chyde.uwasa.fi * * University of Vaasa inkinen@vakk.uwasa.fi * * Finland voice 358-(9)61-248302 *
Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com (10/28/89)
Jouni Alkio says:
>I know that Atari supports Europe more than the US. I can imagine why...
The problem is that *Everyone* seems to be running into the same kinds of
problems with Atari Corp.,..
Maybe "Junior Achievement" USA doesn't reach up into those high-level
management levels where some actual "on the job" experience would be
helpful...
BobR